Open 898: Don't Fall In The Volcano! | Game Over!

[FakeGod]

VOTE: DragonEater70

Hello.

[FakeGod]

I'm liking Skygazer's big dick energy so far.

[FakeGod]

I usually frown on page 2 E-1, but he explained his trajectory well.

Neutral on rest so far.

[FakeGod]

I don't think putting someone to E-1 on page 2 and keeping her there is a good idea, because how easy it would be for a scum (or town) to "accidentally" place hammer and evading responsibility on Day 2. Now, if an actual quickhammer had occurred and the flip was scum, I would give massive towncred to the hammerer, but that is besides the point. I'm also not sure if Black was scum or not, because I can see myself reacting like that if I were to run up to E-1 right away, and I can see a scum player faking it as well.

I think the main engine behind the wagon was Sky and Dragon, and I see a strange but plausible town motivation and explanation from Sky's posts, hence my Dragon vote.

However, 154 is so cringey that I'm having trouble seeing scum Dragon writing it. If that is within his scum range, then bravo.

VOTE: Klick

[FakeGod]

Why not? It's pretty obvious vote from my pov after eliminating sky and you from execute pool, and neko's obvtown.

Heck, his poe list (203) is literally two guys voting him, one person who said he'd vote him, and a person who's not here.

It looks like someone who's trying hard not to leave a paper trail.

[FakeGod]

I think Black is more likely to be town right now. I dont have a lock read yet but im confident i can get a very confident read there given enough time

I have an extremely good record of reading Black and if people can find me as town it would be cool if people trusted that

I approve of Dann taking a hard stance. This is what Day 1 is all about, people. I'm willing to give a pass to Black on Dann's word.

I agree that Clap's taking more of a methodical, logical approach compared to Klick who is taking an organic, wishy-washy, softer approach. I think that's more of a stylistic difference and I don't think that necessarily points to Clap being scum.

[FakeGod]

I'm not following the logic to voting Klick with town-reading Sky's reasoning and Dragon's post. Is voting Klick PoE? What's your scum case on Klick? If I missed it let me know

Because how short it was since game start, and because the mod's votecount on page 2 did not reflect a E-1 state, a scum player could plausibly place a hammer on Black and evade responsibility Day 2, essentially gaining a free mis-execute. Therefore, this action of holding the E-1 wagon on page 2 is scum-favored.

4 people created the E-1 wagon on page 2. Their names are Klick, NekoLover, DragonEater70, and Skygazer. They held it until Neko unvoted at his earliest convenience, so I would remove Neko from the scum pool. Skygazer is the one who put poor Black on E-1 to begin with, but it was because he thought he saw a scumslip. If I saw a scumslip, I would take the same action he did. Dragon put momentum on the wagon by being the 3rd vote on the wagon, and my initial suspect out of the group (hence my early vote). I admit I did like 154. It felt a little hare-brained to me, but it could at least stumble through it and see what Dragon was thinking.

This leaves Klick. He said his first vote was RVS vote. Despite seeing Black pushed into E-1, he conveniently sidestepped the issue in his 36. Seems like he wants the job done but he doesn't want to say so outright. This looks scummy to me.

I hope this explains my voting of Klick to you.

[FakeGod]

By paper trail do you mean leading back to any potential scum partner?

That is correct.

[FakeGod]

Since people (FakeGod in the post Kawaii quoted) are apparently upset about the page 2 wagon still

I mean... I don't think Black is mafia, and I think there's a scum in that wagon.

Do you think I should just forget about it?

[FakeGod]

Yes, unless you're gonna make a scumcase on Sky.

So, uh.. you think town Klick decided to leave Black, who is also town, at E-1 for reasons that help town?

May I ask what those reasons are?

You must understand that this series of events seem very cut-and-dry to me, and I am incredulous that you would defend Klick's behavior here.

[FakeGod]

Black was at E-1 for 6 minutes. Klick posted within that 6 minutes but didn't unvote. So, Klick is scum. Is that the gist of it?

Yes. Black could have been hammered during that time. Town Klick would have unvoted or reaffirmed his vote for the E-1.

He instead ignored it. Does that look town behavior to you?

[FakeGod]

Clap, you seem to be hung up on the fact that it was a short period of time.

Klick didn't seem like he was interested in interacting with the wagon in his post.

Looks like he was ready to let the wagon go on for more than "6 minutes", but someone else stopped the wagon.

[FakeGod]

Let me ask you a question: in the hypothetical universe where it is reasonable to expect town!Klick to unvote 100% of the time, what does scum!Klick gain from not unvoting?

Chance of a trigger happy town or his scum partner to place an "accidental" hammer and gaining a mis-execute.

In other words, a huge tempo swing for scum.

[FakeGod]

Hmmm

How often have you seen this actually happen?

The only time I've ever seen a page 3 hammer on this site was when a player self voted and dared anyone to hammer him, following which another player decided it was a good policy lim and hammered fully knowing it was a hammer.

Micro 464 is a game I modded where I saw this happen.

Town Doctor was hammered on page 2.

[FakeGod]

If I get heat for it, then so be it.

But it's anti-town and I'm calling it out.

[FakeGod]

Why did you not have any issue with Dragon or sky not caring that I was at e-1? Like what specifically makes you want to single out Klick here

Sky thought he saw a scumslip, so it makes sense that he wants to execute.

Dragon I did pursue initially, as you can see by my earlier vote, but I believe his 136 comes from town POV.

[FakeGod]

Along those lines, I would think it took him significant time to find that game from 8 years ago.

I reread that specific game about a month ago and it was fresh on my memory.

There are probably other games like so, but I will have to look through to find them.

[FakeGod]

In very brief: I was vaguely aware that Black was at E-1. I didn't care that much about it. In the very early stages of the game I find that sort of stuff somewhat amusing. If people want to do crazy stuff early on, that's their prerogative. Ultimately there's stuff to read into that sort of play. The E-1 contributed to us progressing the thread in a healthy way.

tl;dr risk-averse play during RVS is for losers.

I've come back from work and this post caught my eye. I am saddened.

It seems yet again that I'm faced with the stark reality that there are some players who will draw town and do anti-town things.

I did not expect Klick to just straight up admit that what he did was antitown and he doesn't care.

I have no coherent response.

Maybe page 2 E-1 wagon was just bunch of townies doing stunts, and I am simply... risk-averse.

[FakeGod]

UNVOTE:

[FakeGod]

I will be reassessing the game under the assumption that there was no scum involvement in the page 2 E-1 wagon.

Those of you who still want to talk to me, I'll try my best to respond.

[FakeGod]

I want to talk to you, who do you feel is scum outside of the people in the page 2 E-1 wagon.

fuck man I dunno

I could just OMGUS and tell you Black and Clap, but Black's been fighting people the whole game, and I don't think scum players go around causing trouble like that. It's not conducive to survival.

Clap isn't... wrong in his points. He's right that I should've known better than to assume town Klick always does pro-town things. I wasn't wrong that E-1 wagon was anti-town, but I think I may had too much faith in people to not do stupid shit.

[FakeGod]

He's done no scumhunting. He acted like he was scumhunting by making a big deal about the page 2 E-1, which really wasn't a big deal.

You are wrong, sir.

Just because you don't believe it was a big deal, doesn't mean you get to tell people I've done no scumhunting.

My case may have collapsed, but not because I was wrong in identifying the action as anti-town move, but because it turns out Klick does anti-town things regardless of his alignment.

[FakeGod]

i think it's interesting that fakegod stopped pushing his counterwagon, and is not pushing anyone at all now

I rather be right and dead, then be wrong and alive.

Being dead is temporary. Post-game is forever.

[FakeGod]

Is FakeGod trying to bait me into an argument about anti-town play lmao

Explain.

[FakeGod]

Back in my day, antitown is same as scummy.

[FakeGod]

Per the wiki, back in your day scummy and anti-town were distinct things.
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Scummy

I've read most of the wiki but unfortunately it's largely outdated.

Jesus christ I can't beat you on anything, can I?

I can't wait to wipe that smirk off your face when you see my flip.

[FakeGod]

Unless you were scum. In which case I'd congratulate you postgame.

[FakeGod]

After I posted my case on Black, she was at E-1 in 2 hours. The people who jumped on are, in order, DE70, klick, and neko.

This just shows that Black has many enemies in this game.

Predictably, those same three players were also in the first iteration of the Black E-1 wagon.

[FakeGod]

Not that that comes as a surprise. Black has been playing fast and loose.

Only player Black hasn't voted yet in this game is Kawaii.

[FakeGod]

I'm pretty confident in my feeling that atleast one person on the wagon was scum. But perhaps the wagon moved too fast for scum to pile on/hammer

Which player from the wagon are you most suspicious of?

You have an advantage in this wagon analysis over some other players because you know yourself as town.

[FakeGod]

What's your read on black?

I'm glad you asked! Here begins my Black town case. (Black's alignment is critical in my page 2 E-1 wagon analysis, as it assumes Black to be town who is under attack by

scum players

anti-town players. )

She is a player who defends herself aggressively through demanding rapid responses, accusing of players voting her to be acting in bad faith, voting her voters claiming them to be scum, changing and retracting reads left and right, oftentimes all caps with rare punctuations, ample amount of AtE, while flooding the game with posts (She is the player with the highest post count in the game). She does not look like she has many allies. Even after Dannflor asked the town to not execute Black in 321, Black votes Dannflor in 528!!!

And she's not trying to make any allies at all it seems. She's already voted most of the playerlist. First thing she did when greeting our replacement was to

punch him in the face

affront him by asking him if he has read anything at all before he made his 1st post.

I think there's a reason why she went to E-1 twice already, and I doubt she'll go anywhere near the endgame. I do not believe scum plays with such recklessness and abandon. Hence, I believe her to be town.

And here is a Black quote to wrap up my post:

Like what the fuck is this? You don't want to sort me. You just want to be right about me so you can say "OoO I caught scum Black!!11!!"

I'M TOWN

[FakeGod]

Which player from the wagon are you most suspicious of?

Klick

Yeah dude, I agree!

Sane town players wouldn't see their RVS vote in the page 2 E-1 wagon and go, "

MS mafia games care about D1 more than most social deduction games. We put quite a bit of stake in the ability to sort alignment through behaviour, even early on. Consequently, our games don't tend to rely on Night Actions to solve the game as much as other sites, preferring to solve through mostly behaviour instead.

"

[FakeGod]

Whatever; I'm going to be salty about that the whole game.

Say hello to Dragon for me. It seems that our posting hours never match up.

[FakeGod]

Excellent work, guys. Looks like this game is in the bag.

Thanks for carrying me yet again. I am not sure why, but I've been having the most terrible reads when it comes to mafia games.

There is no way scum would want to voluntarily flip their Roleblocker, which would both confirm the setup for town and lose their own PR, and therefore, I would strongly read every member on the wagon as town.

I still think Skygazer is town.

VOTE: Nekolover

[FakeGod]

sooooo we’re in autowin i believe

Excellent. I was hoping this would be the case.

Cop claim inc?

[FakeGod]

It's autowin if Dann is cop and he has a living inno result I believe.

[FakeGod]

We default to Follow-the-Cop, as Cop cannot be stopped now that roleblocker is dead.

This guarantees Dann another inno result tomorrow, which means scum no longer has enough night kills to stop the town victory.

[FakeGod]

Awww, Dann. You didn't have to confirm me.

[FakeGod]

It’s unfortunate but due to the setup scum’s best move was not to kill anyone last night.

Holy shit you are right

How did this setup pass as Newbie setup???

are they high?

[FakeGod]

Ok, guys. Let's massclaim!!!

I am a 2-shot Vigilante and I holstered last night.

[FakeGod]

It’s follow the jailkeeper

Fakegod is innocent due to me jailing him last night

Oh wait, sorry I have to confirm that I am NOT the tracker for us to have an auto-win.

I claim VT.

[FakeGod]

How confident are you in your sky townread

I think we are in auto-win, yeah?

I guess we could go for style points and execute final scum today for perfect win.

I think only two viable scum players left are Sky and Neko, and I thought Sky was slightly more town than Neko.

[FakeGod]

I bet Clap is Tracker

[FakeGod]

[FakeGod]

I sorta figured that you had an ace in the hole to smash the hammer like that

[FakeGod]

Dann, if the Sky execute goes through but you weren't around to post your target, then please default to Neko jail.

[FakeGod]

Thank you.

[FakeGod]

Very good.

We may rush now. Vote your nearest wagon.

[FakeGod]

nice

[FakeGod]

Thanks for the carry.