Normal Game Changes (New Year 2024 Update)

[biancospino]

Can you make it so in Multiball both Scumteams have Compulsive Vigs but they can't kill Townies?

RedMafia Informed compulsive combined Vigilante Doctor (all BlueMafiosi are Doctor-Immune)

[biancospino]

This is actually a gripe I had with multitasking before, but I don't really get why it's treated as a modifier; it confers a passive ability on its own, "you may use multiple abilities each phase". In fact, now that we have Inventors, it does even make sense as a standalone (a "multitasking Townie", say, would be able to use multiple gadgets in the same Night if they would receive them).

That considered, I find it the cleanest way to solve the conundrum is to have a

Multitasker

role

legal for Town only. In almost all circumstances, a Multitasker will also have other active roles, but doesn't strictly need to.
If the description of Multitasker would be "you can perform multiple

nonfactional

actions each phase", then it wouldn't even need to ne Town-only, and would have all the functionality of the old multitasking minus the ability to both nightkill and do other stuff. Thou ig It would be a little artificious.

Else, one could otherwise introduce a

modifier

like

Simultaneous X, Y

: "at Night, you may use X and Y, possibly with different targets", which would be a true modifier and not work with inventions, and also allow for things like, say, a JoAT(X, simulaneous Y Z) who can either do X or (possibly a subset of) both Y and Z. Such a modifier would

not

need to be for Town only unless modifiers are allowed to modify the factional kill (which is a separate issue, but I'm not clear on whether or not they can?).

[biancospino]

Is there any difference at all between "ActionDetecor" and "combined Reporter Inspector", other than interacting differently with Finders and ModifierCops? Otherwise it seems very redundant

[biancospino]

While I don't agree, the wiki sais that both Ninja and Juggernaut are

active

roles in normals. It also sais that "Anyone targeting an Immune player with the role they are immune to will have their action fail".

My interpretation is that, if both of those things are true, a Juggernaut targeting a Juggernaut-Immune, or a Ninja targeting a Ninja-Immune, with their beefed up factional kill should just fail (failing to kill), whereas they would have succeeded if they had used their normal factional kill (thou it's not particularly clear from the wiki if a, say, unmodified Ninja is even at all capable of opting to use their normal nk).
As they aren't classed as passives, the line "

A player immune to a passive role such as Ascetic is unaffected by that passive role

" isn't relevant, and as such a Ninja-Immune Watcher won't be able to see Ninjas etc. Whether a Watcher could be able to see a Ninja targeting, and failing to kill, a Ninja-Immune townie is not super clear thou.

If they

were

passives, on the other hand, then the

underlined

sentence would be the only relevant one, producing a vastly different interaction; as such, a Juggernaut-Immune would sumply be a player that, if they somehow gain a protection (e.g. by being BP, or being targeted by a Doc), would not allow a Juggernaut to pierce that protection; and a Ninja-Immune would be able to see Ninjas if they somehow have access to an action-investigative ability, but would not cause Ninjas killing them to be visible (since the ninja being invisible doesn't actually affect them)

[biancospino]

Well, in the Normal Version section,

A Juggernaut is considered to be an active role in Normal games

And an analogous line for Ninja

[biancospino]

Which tbh is coherent with the sample PM. The ability is worded as the Juggernaut having access to an active superkill in addition to the factional kill, which however may only be used if no mafioso is using the factional kill.

Btw, the wording of the sample PM seems to imply that, if two Juggernauts were to be in the same mafia family, then

both

of them would be able to use their superkill, since it isn't actually the factional kill...

[biancospino]

Yeah you are correct. I don't think an intuitively correct interpretation of Juggernaut-Immune could exist as long as it's classed an active role, though.

I stand that as it's currently written a Juggernaut would just straight-up fail to kill a Jugg-Immune when using the Jugg kill; but also I agree that it feels wrong, and maybe even a bit toxic

[biancospino]

I doubt that this is the intention. Probably needs to be fixed by the NRG/Ausuka, or a ruling provided.

Nevermind, I'm dumb. By reading it more accurately, it doesn't allow for that

[biancospino]

pedit: pretty sure "Each Night, if no other member of your faction is performing the factional kill action, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, you will perform the factional kill. This action cannot be blocked or protected from." would imply that two juggernauts doesn't equal two super kills (if you really wanted two mafia super kills, strong-willed vigilante is what you're looking for)

Yeah, my eyes completely skipped over the word "factional" in the second sentence for some reason, my bad.

What happens if two Juggs try to use their superkill at the same time, and one of them just happens to be roleblocked? One could argue that, since "you will perform the factional kill" is dependent on the action not being interfered with, then in fact the roleblocked one did not perform the factional kill, and so the action submission is legal (thou the mafia team almost surely couldn't be able to know that it would've been legal) I'm not saying that anyone in good faith will interpret it in this way. I'm mostly half-joking here.

Anyway, Ninja-Immune seems to be even more difficult to parse. Suppose Ninja targets Ninja-Immune, and Tracker targets Ninja. Does Tracker see Ninja? Surely Ninja fails, but it's not clear whether the failure extends to invalidating the innate invisibility of the Ninja's kill

[biancospino]

A role X that sais "You and [players] are member of a group. Each member of that group is an X and knows this" may be meaningful, thou niche. Powerwise, almost the same thing as having a bunch of Moonlight Dancers.