Mini Normal 2323 [There is an Inventor] | FIN

[Thomith]

Gunsmith seems sus idk

Why?

[Thomith]

Also I've seen here and there people saying it's probably a 2 player red team
but I also have in my head that that was based off something dragon said and now dragon has flipped red is that not like, the worst thing to base things off?

Its what made me start thinking it, but I made a post that due to the scum inventor, and the roles they give out, that I felt it also kind of may make sense from a mech pov?

[Thomith]

Day 1
9 Town 3 Scum - Let's say we mislimmed here

Night 1
8 town 3 scum - Compulsive Vig BG shot gets given out + scum kill

Day 2
7 town 3 scum - let's say we mislimmed here

Night 2
6 town 3 scum - vig bg shot gets used and the second one gets given

Day 3
4 town 3 scum ELo

Even if we lim correctly in hypothetical Day 3 ELo, we still just lose because of the vig bg shot.

I get this is worst case scenario, but the fact that's even possible is what's making me almost convinced it's not 3 scum.

I'll stop there now, I hear y'all saying to focus on other stuff.

This is what made me genuinely consider it as an option.

[Thomith]

The reason why later on I believed that may not be true, is because when I looked later, there's no multitasking in this game.

[Thomith]

Been busy today, will aim to catch up later.
I'm a Villager.

[Thomith]

If I've missed something (i probably have) let me know and I'll go looking, but why are we assuming all PR's are town?

[Thomith]

Here's what I've got:

Claims

Duelist Kage:

JOAT (Follower on Elements N1, Gunsmith on Black N2, ModifierCop)

Gypyx:

Lazy Inventor (announcing FruitVendor to Black N2, Cop-Inventor to Black N1, compulsive personal Strengthener, Macho)

JacksonVirgo:

Inventor (?)

davesaz:

VT?

Elements:

JOAT 2xSimple Compulsive Combined Jailkeeper+Vanilla Cop (on davesaz N1, Hu Tao N2)

Enchant:

?

Thomith:

VT

Hu Tao:

VT

In 2-wolf world:

Duelist Kage

is clear from confirmed Follower information on Elements' N1 action

Elements

is clear from Duelist Kage's Follower results showing that she used JK+Vanilla Cop N1 because Dragon dispensed an invention to Black or Katsuki and remaining wolf would be expected to make a NK

Hu Tao

is clear from Elements' N1 Vanilla Cop because remaining wolf cannot be Vanilla due to confirmed Godfather and dave's claim of receiving wolf's invention showing that the second wolf must also be a Backup

davesaz

is clear from Elements' N2 Vanilla Cop for same?? (waiting on confirmation)

JacksonVirgo

is clear from dispensing an invention to Hu Tao N1 because Dragon dispensed an invention to Black or Katsuki and remaining wolf would be expected to make a NK
Thomith is unsorted
Enchant is unsorted
Gypyx is unsorted

Plan:

Flip Enchant
-----

Kage/dave/Elements/Jackson/Hu/Elements

/Gypyx/Thomith
Duelist Kage uses ModifierCop on Gypyx to confirm she has Lazy modifier rather than Compulsive
davesaz targets Thomith with vig invention
Jackson does something
Gypyx gives Macho to Jackson to confirm wolf count
Hu Tao maybe uses an invention
Elements bloops
-----

Kage/Elements/Jackson/Hu/Elements/

Gypyx
Gypyx remains to be sorted- if dave is still alive he was lying about getting the wolf invention and his gambit is done for- he can't claim to have been protected because we're not going to do that now that we've got all this info out, right?
Kage confirms or refutes Gypyx's modifiers
Jackson confirms whether Gypyx's Macho invention was received to give info on remaining wolves

I know, Jackson is going to want to plan for the 3-wolf world, but I think this is a good start to that at least. Feel free to take it from here.

I understand Hu Tao, Dave and Jackson being cleared in this scenario.
I don't understand why Kage and Elements are though. Without multitasking, and with no kill N1, is there not a world where these are scum PRs?

[Thomith]

If we're ready I'll hammer.
Sorry I haven't really been about.

[Thomith]

Well the 2 scum theory was wrong

[Thomith]

This is why I didn't understand why we were lock towning all the PR claims.

[Thomith]

If I was meant to receive the Macho modifier I didn't by the way (assuming I'd get told if I did)

[Thomith]

Ima be honest with how hard JV has been pushing me as scum most of the game I'm struggling to lock in a TR on them, even if logic is making me think they're probably town..

[Thomith]

If I was meant to receive the Macho modifier I didn't by the way (assuming I'd get told if I did)

Kage was supposed to get it

Gotcha didn't know that changed.

[Thomith]

Ima be honest with how hard JV has been pushing me as scum most of the game I'm struggling to lock in a TR on them, even if logic is making me think they're probably town..

What? I haven't pushed you since D1

You literally said I should be vigged last night

[Thomith]

Again the argument there is probably moot because logic is telling me you are probably town, I'm just paranoid.

[Thomith]

Is there a list of claims somewhere?
Don't need to link me the post, just who sent it if we know so I can look it up/bump it.

[Thomith]

I'm wondering if scum jumped on my 2 scum theory to try and create conf bias for us to not think we were in ELo when we were.

[Thomith]

Actually, maybe wolves simply don't have access to the factional kill? That would explain how nights went

Then the redacted PMs of the wolves would be a mod lie?

[Thomith]

Actually, maybe wolves simply don't have access to the factional kill? That would explain how nights went

Then the redacted PMs of the wolves would be a mod lie?

I mean

they have access to the kill theoretically but if they're all some compulsive *whatever* they can't actually perform it

Gotcha

[Thomith]

I'm wondering if scum jumped on my 2 scum theory to try and create conf bias for us to not think we were in ELo when we were.

I think it's fairly likely scum would be the people who let it happen passively and not push it hard like Kage did

Idk, since I was the main one to present it I feel like they could push it pretty hard then blame me for it being my idea.

[Thomith]

making kage's modifier cop an actual cop

With the invention you got from JV would you say they're likely town?

I fear my paranoia is making it hard for me to commit to a read on them. (I keep seeing "gotcha" moments that I think I'm only seeing because I'm paranoid/tunelled)

[Thomith]

Like my paranoia is telling me that JV being adamant it probably wasn't 2 scum was potentially TMI, but I fully aware this is probably me being paranoid.

[Thomith]

Also nobody ever let me do setup spec again.

[Thomith]

Yeah I agree, I think I misplayed the order I was giving but I didn't know the game was going to turn out the way it did. I felt the others were much stronger

why'd you give out neighborizer over role guard this night though

Oh, that's a good fuckin' point. I didn't really think that much, I think my internal bias of the game is gonna end soon was making me think the choice was useless but you're right I should have

You're making it so hard to break my paranoia on you

[Thomith]

Logically I think it should just be between Me/Hu Tao?

4 VTs in this setup though makes me unsure?

[Thomith]

So yeah, wolves likely can now maul.

[Thomith]

The reason I thought elements was lying at first was because I thought jailkept was a rolestopper too and I got an invention n2. But then I asked mod just in case and they confirmed I would still get an invention n2 even if I was jailkept. I didn't want anyone to know I got 2 inventions so I played it off as a joke

What inventions did you get again, and when did you get them?

[Thomith]

I'd rather have someone claim it

Fair enough.

[Thomith]

So to confirm, you're saying that you were given an invention shot of something that hasn't been claimed to be something that can be given out by one of the claimed inventors?

[Thomith]

Also did anyone get a vig shot last night?

Duelist Kage got Vig/Bg

[Thomith]

Ok so. Someone gave me something n2 and isn't claiming it?

Is it a detrimental something, or do you not even wanna give that much away?

[Thomith]

If JV is town we were probably both kept alive in hopes they would mislim me

[Thomith]

did we even make use of a single invention this game

Yes!
It looks like multiple people ended up eliminating themselves with vig shots!

[Thomith]

did we even make use of a single invention this game

Hu Tao claims to have used the detective last night and got nothing OwO

I mean that isn't what Hu Tao said at all..

[Thomith]

Also I used a detective shot last night. And it was useless of course. I got Kage has never killed anyone

@JV (do you prefer JV or Jackson?)
This is the result.

Unless by nothing you mean useless info. In that case that's just semantics I guess.

[Thomith]

Low key a detective shot in this vigilante chaos is very funny

[Thomith]

That's a little rude

[Thomith]

When this thought popped in my head I actually laughed, cuz it's the smartest thing. What if Hu Tao is attempting to sow doubt in the inventors by fake-claiming they received an invention that nobody is claiming, hoping it causes enough doubt that they cross-vote each other.

This thought crossed my mind for a second too, somi think it's definitely possible.

[Thomith]

So I*

[Thomith]

Do we just send it and hope we are right, or do people want to deep dive into anything else?

[Thomith]

Actually I changed my mind immediately in still paranoid, let's not do it yet

[Thomith]

Wasn't there not compulsive in the modifier cop results, which means Gypyx should be town because of the (assumed) No wolf kills?

[Thomith]

Then I'm blind nevermind

[Thomith]

Is Macho not a modifier?

[Thomith]

Explains why it didn't show up in the result then.

[Thomith]

I'm just trying to see of there are any holes at all in the claims, just to make sure something hasn't been missed.

[Thomith]

reminder i wasn't aware of the modifier cop when claiming and also that it kinda doesn't make sense to give scum one of the only roles that's somewhat consistent in terms of town utility

if you think i'm still worthy of suspicion we could always no kill ofc, but idk if it's best to dilute our town voices

I just wanted to make sure we hadn't missed a slip up in the claims, not necessarily suspecting you.

[Thomith]

yeah likewise

i'm stuck between the wish to make sure i don't miss something obvious but also not wanting to paranoia myself into missing the scum in plain sight

This.

I want to vote Hu Tao I think. I'm just so fucking worried I've missed a slip up.

I'm also paranoid the JV TMI paranoia is right and I'm just discarding it because of "logic"

[Thomith]

I feel like if we no lim I just get left in a Hu Tao/JV/Me ELo and that doesn't solve any of my concerns.

[Thomith]

VOTE: Hu Tao

Fuck it we ball.

(I'm so so sorry if this is wrong)

[Thomith]

I'm so so worried that its JV

[Thomith]

I hate it.

[Thomith]

I can't wait for this to be a 4 scum setup.

[Thomith]

Fuck.
I should have trusted myself.
GG.

[Thomith]

Knowing about how the lazy modifier was there for means I don't think this setup either 3 scum is scum sided anymore, I just think it's super swingy

[Thomith]

With* not either

[Thomith]

thomith could be a court jester

Also this is getting sigged