Open 901 - Normal Idea Mafia Redux - Postgame

[Jake The Wolfie]

I think the two most apparent ones are Black and Argon. They've been following eachother's votes onto different wagons throughout today.

[Jake The Wolfie]

I think that pov might be kind of backwards. Townies are probably more likely to change their minds as they react to things and try to solve. Scum will have an agenda they want to push and find it harder to move naturally.

I think I'm gonna go compare the d1 shaddowez wagon with this one- the way his wagon dissolved midway through the day and moved to town was something I've been looking askance at.

-Atalanta

That is a possibility, but I don't think that holds here. The people on Shadez' wagon, as well as some of the smaller wagons around Shadez, have more or less stayed on there.

In order for what you say to ring true here, you would need to explain the general lack of movement coming from a majority of the current players here.

[Jake The Wolfie]

I am become pagetop, Blooper of threads.

[Jake The Wolfie]

I pagetopped so hard, I caused Jackson to change their pfp.

[Jake The Wolfie]

[...]Townies are probably more likely to change their minds as they react to things and try to solve.

[...]
-Atalanta

[Jake The Wolfie]

It's almost as if they are not loyal to the town.

[Jake The Wolfie]

Christ, Argon. Choose a wagon and stick to it for longer than 24 hours.

[Jake The Wolfie]

At least this wagon is new

[Jake The Wolfie]

I like your pfp Argon. It looks pretty

[Jake The Wolfie]

Isn't Shadez just claiming to be an advanced Doctor? How would babysitter ever be informationally useful?

Also, Seymour, you did not steam a good ham.

[Jake The Wolfie]

Serial Killer, if you're listening in to this broadcast, I would recommend for the good of the town and yourself, that you turn off the lights on Black. Thank you.

[Jake The Wolfie]

Granted those aren't the only two options, but me continuing to protect while hoping they kill not me is risky at best, since that also protects another target.

do no afraid, just protect who you do think is scum ok

[Jake The Wolfie]

I'm sure you know who I'd want you to shoot, but I think my final solve is

Black / Argon / Shadez

[Jake The Wolfie]

If Shadez is town after the bullshittery that you wagon hoppers did to save him, then we were never going to win in the first place.

[Jake The Wolfie]

It's okay, you can go back to sleep. Dragons already hammered Skygazer.

[Jake The Wolfie]

Good god.

Anyway we're in LyLo here.

[Jake The Wolfie]

I would like to declare that Shadez is town here for the revelation of who was on their wagon yesterday.

[Jake The Wolfie]

Also, now that the claim supressor hath left us, if any of you have any information for the town at all, I'd suggest you not Save it here, but let it flow freely like gold or milk.

[Jake The Wolfie]

Also, now that the claim supressor hath left us, if any of you have any information for the town at all, I'd suggest you not Save it here, but let it flow freely like gold or milk.

So you have nothing to claim? You're a VT? And the dragons? It's mass claim time.

-Atalanta

I do have something to claim, but much like how I supressed what I wanted to say yesterday, I shall supress it here as well until I hear from everyone at the round table.

I'm Savoring the moment, if you will.

[Jake The Wolfie]

2.FINAL

Votecount 2.FINAL

Jacob24 (EXECUTED): Black, Save The Dragons, Roden, Argonauts, lucca261, JacksonVirgo

Not Voting (5): Jake The Wolfie, shaddowez, SirCakez, Jacob24, Skygazer

With 11 players alive, it took 6 votes to secure an execution.

I would also like to point out that Jacob was executed with 2 (probably 3, with Shadez being practically conf!town, 4 if you'd be willing to humor me) town off-wagon. That wagon was hella contaminated lol.

[Jake The Wolfie]

Orion, what is your opinion on Progon (std) and Antigon (DragonEater)?

[Jake The Wolfie]

Why am I antigon? And who's Orion? Wasn't rh9 Orpheus or something?

Progon is Progon because they are Pro-Dragon and you are Antigon because you eat Dragons.

I called them Orion because it was the first spacey greeky thing that I thought of. I'll call them RH9

[Jake The Wolfie]

Also hi

I was townreading Black :oops:

I will admit, I was not as right as I thought I was.

At least my world has been refreshed and this game is 1000x more interesting.

[Jake The Wolfie]

[...]
Why is Shaddowez town?
[...]

Jackson was a traitor in both mind and matters.

[Jake The Wolfie]

Argon is an M.O.D. plant to test out giving out different roles to the different heads of a hydra.

[Jake The Wolfie]

Antigon, Argon, and Progon. What are your roles?

[Jake The Wolfie]

If there is ever a hydrae consisting of Aureal, Dr Drew, Rh9, Antigon, and Progon, can it be named "Polygon"

[Jake The Wolfie]

Oh yeah, that.

Antigon and Progon?

[Jake The Wolfie]

That's reasonable. And Antigon?

[Jake The Wolfie]

Oops should have already said this
I'm an ascetic miller LOL

Well OF COURSE you had to get that role, ugh

Orpheus's crumbing was only half-serious. We're backup miller :igmeou:

-Atalanta

I never did catch where you crumbed at.

[Jake The Wolfie]

Well, while we wait for Antigon to post, what are your thoughts on who might be scum, Shadez?

[Jake The Wolfie]

Completely ignoring claims for the moment StD, largely based on voting records.

Especially

considering this could be multiball.

Not liking Argo's claim/explanation either. Seems convenient that there was a "crumb" and then chose backup miller after a miller was claimed. The "I was afraid I was gonna get vigged" is based on 72 and 236, so something's just not sitting right with me there.

I don't think this is multiball?

Any thoughts on Lucca?

[Jake The Wolfie]

Avoiding responsibility for our actions, are we?

[Jake The Wolfie]

Hm. Shame, that.

Argon, what do you think I am?

[Jake The Wolfie]

I suppose the time is drawing near, yes.

I would like to post in-full both my claim and what my conclusions are based on what has gaooened in thread during my lunch break. It should be in no less than a few hours, possibly within the hour.

[Jake The Wolfie]

I am a Town Loyal Checker, and last night my ability failed on Progon, likely meaning that they are scum.

(For the previous days, I checked Roden on N1, but they are dead now. On N2, I checked Black and very publically pushed them the day after.)

Here are some of my crumbles:

Spoiler: dabadeedabadai, dabadi dadubi

Some basic NKA:

Hu Tao was probably a Mafia kill. Given that there were generally good vibes all around, Hu Tao wasn't a

loyal

townread to everyone, but they were generally townread.
Not_Mafia was probably an SK kill. Not only because of the above, but also Mafia are unlikely to kill their prized cow, aiming to axe them instead.

I'll have to go back and

check

D1 to update this analysis.

Jake, did you read the ISOs of both Shaddow/STD during the night as well?

Unfortunately, my

loyalties

for that time were spend elsewhere.

At least I read up on Black and got a neat little justification for scumreading them.

I would've gone with (as though this is surprising) Shadez, Black, and Dragons.

Mainly Dragons. I'll reeval Shadez and Black over the night

So I checked out Black on the overnight

and I.. didn't like what I was seeing


Also, Jackson. Would you care to explain why our good friend Jacob was found to be suspicious underneath your watching eye? I think you need to claim good sir.

VOTE: JacksonVirgo

[Lucca had questioned whether or not this was me claiming a redcheck on Black, good on them.]

or did you check her ISO

I looked over her case file, and I found that her actions were not for the town.

As for today, I have the general feeling that Argon rightfully caught that I had found something on Progon (their confirmation was helpful) and had started pre-emtively pushing their only logical choice, Antigon [I will henceforth be calling Antigon "Neugon" from now on.] As previously mentioned, Lucca had also caught that I may be crumbing something, so this is not a slam dunk.

Really, I've been having a fair bit of trouble deciding between Neugon and Argon. Both of them have had questionable and suspicious histories, as though mirroring one another.

I am very tempted to say that the severe antagonism between Jackson and Argon have shown to eachother in the past was theater, at least to Jackson (Just look at how antagonostic that Jackson was to Claptastick) but those are dark and swampy waters to wade in. Instead, we can walk the path on contraction, where Jackson interracted with Lucca. In some posts like the ones below, Jackson seems to just dislike and distrust Lucca, rather than being openly antagonistic.

Spoiler: why does yt shorts keep showing me clips from house md.

Based on lucca's posts he definitely scumread Jackson for asking so many questions. Maybe we have different definitions of shade but to me it seems like lucca was trying to make Jackson look bad with that question

Yeah, I feel it's pretty clear through his wording that he scum-read me (to what degree, who knows) and it didn't feel like he was asking me a question just making a point, similar line of logic to what I was saying about clap. I just wanna wait for him to answer my question before I let anybody know what I'm concluding atm

One was about Clap's entitlement, the other about Lucca's shade on me

you tell me you have made a list of all 150 roles, knew exactly which ones could interfere with your action and then on the following night just randomly picks an ascetic player to investigate

like this is a very inconsistent effort level

I made an oversight with their claim, it happened very early. Those two things are not the same, why are you comparing it

Personally, I think that Argon is more likely to be mafia here than Neugon.

[Jake The Wolfie]

Anyway, that's that post. I'm sleeping now.

[Jake The Wolfie]

[...]
Furthermore, Jake seems to be totally overlooking how yesterday I was pressuring both Jackson and Dragons (who is basically confirmed scum from his POV) and it was others like himself who forced it to end in a Skygazer/shaddowez showdown. [...]

-Atalanta

I looked into this, looking through both your and Lucca's D3 play, and you did push for Progon to get axed, voted them, even. The main issue is that Lucca also didn't townread Progon yesterday, which is another symmetry. (I swear, if Black roleblocked me and it turns out that both you and Neugon are both scum, I'll have a fit.)

There is one asymmetry between you two: your take on Jackson. While Lucca arguably left the door open for Jackson to be town, you demonstrably nailed that door shut. However, I'm discounting this as Jackson was a lost wolf, which would mean that the scum would've had to figure out that he was their lost wolf. If Neugon wants to, they can dig through Jackson's and Progon's ISO to see if there's any indication that Progon knew they were a lost wolf.

[Jake The Wolfie]

@Moderator: Would a Mafia Traitor know their teammate's roles, or just who they are?

[Jake The Wolfie]

Mafia would know they have a traitor. Mafia knew Jackson was likely their traitor there because only the SK blocking him could realistically explain what he was doing otherwise. (I suppose he could technically have been the SK in their eyes too, but that's such insane play for a 3P that I don't think it's getting seriously considered.) So, good odds they would at least be pretty comfortable with him rather than wanting to push him.

-Atalanta

While unlikely, it may have been possible for the mafia to have roleblocked Jackson on that night.

[Jake The Wolfie]

I could've been, Black was part roleblocker after all. However, from my perspective there would need to be a few things that would need to be explained for you to not be scum. These include:

- Neugon's lack of thread presence and thread awareness, where Argon (or myself if you fancy) is their teammate.
- Argon's turn on Neugon after I hinted that I had something on you, but didn't know what.
- - If Argon were scum and I was roleblocked, they could reasonably suspect that I was pulling a reaction test.
- That your voting history is, by your own admission, bad.

[Jake The Wolfie]

Clearly you're a moderator at heart, Neugon.

[Jake The Wolfie]

Your eventual execution? Yes.
Orpheus' participation in the game? Maybe

[Jake The Wolfie]

We can keep going around in circles, Progon, but the fact remains that the evidence is stacked against you, and the most you can do is dispute one part of it.

[Jake The Wolfie]

From my perspective:

I'm town, because Alianna gave me the role pm of a townie.
Shadez is town, due to Jackson voting for them yesterday. It would be highly unlikely that Jackson would willingly axe one of his partners given that many other town wagons were also formed on that day and that the mafia were in an excellent spot yesterday.
Progon is Wolf, not only because

of their star fox pfp

of my result on them, but also because of the restrospective investigation into their behaviour.

Putting all of this together, this means that one of Argon / Neugon is the last wolf, and today will likely be my last day in figuring out who it is.

[Jake The Wolfie]

Shadez, if you feel like you want to end the day you can.

I can't control your action or how you use it, and suggesting anything is risky. Do what you think is best.

I think that Argon here is suspicious, trying to cast shade on me and putting my credibility into question. If I were alive tomorrow, I would almost certainly axe them.

[Jake The Wolfie]

BTW Jake, why did you choose to target Save the Dragons?

-Atalanta

So, going back to EoD3, I had recently announce my final solve of Black/Argon/Shadez. Unlike Jackson, I do not believe in investigating who you think is already guilty, instead I believe in clearing ambiguity. For this reason, I didn't want to investigate those three.
Now, because I thought I had a solve, I decided to look for an SK. Out of all of the living players, I didn't want to check the majority of them. I didn't wish to check Black/Argon/Shadez for the reasons stated above. I also didn't want to check Cakez because I would have expected my action to fail, with them being an outed and obvious Ascetic. I also didn't want to investigate Jackson, whom I thought was town. This lead me to the only two options left, Luca and Progon. I decided Progon over Lucca mostly arbitrarily.

[Jake The Wolfie]

Shadez, if you feel like you want to end the day you can.

I can't control your action or how you use it, and suggesting anything is risky. Do what you think is best.

I think that Argon here is suspicious, trying to cast shade on me and putting my credibility into question. If I were alive tomorrow, I would almost certainly axe them.

if we live to tomorrow, we'll be voting you too so don't be worried. :P
~o

Why do I have the feeling that it's not just Aureal that's all in on making themselves look bad, but Argon as a whole?

[Jake The Wolfie]

Unless you're proposing that the team of Jake and Progon somehow predicted the long haul, that everything would flip over and collapse when there would be no observable reason to believe that, then I would have no idea what your thoyght proccess is here.

[Jake The Wolfie]

I feel like I'm not being charitable here. What do you see from your perspective, Argon?

[Jake The Wolfie]

Unless you're proposing that the team of Jake and Progon somehow predicted the long haul, that everything would flip over and collapse when there would be no observable reason to believe that, then I would have no idea what your thoyght proccess is here.

I don't know what you mean by this. If you're a wolf, it's not hard to predict that Save the Dragons is going to be in trouble here today. Getting out ahead of it by saying you have a guilty on him is possibly a viable play, when there's a role like shaddowez has out there to use as an excuse for you surviving.

-Atalanta

If I were a wolf here, I would not have framed a fellow teammate, I'd instead opt to frame someone else who is not a fellow teammate. This translates to Progon being town here, and (in your PoV) Neugon being my partner.
Why frame a fellow wolf when there'd be an equally viable town to frame?

I'm not going to say that Shadez would be a fool for protecting anyone here (as anyone he protects would be liable to dying if he was killed), but it would not be the move I'd make. Regardless, if no one dies tonight, it will be the topic of discussion that gets unraveled tommorrow.

[Jake The Wolfie]

Orpheus exists in his own world, and the dragons are both scum.

VOTE: Save the Dragons

"could you have been roleblocked", lol

Why am I scum

PoE, wagon position, and a lousy start to the day basically

Like, I'm not vibing with the way Jake is acting as if your slot and ours are roughly the same likelihood to be the last mafia, it feels like trying to keep options open rather than sensible. Accusing me of trying to shift to you because of his crumbing is a very messed up way of thinking. There was literally

4

flips to get information from so it'd be weird if suspicions didn't shift at all. Your slot sat on shaddowez, whom Jake now views as clear, for a large part of the game; while I actually pressured and tried to get nearly confScum Dragons and the traitor flipped yesterday. So I sure am not seeing where Jake's head is at, it doesn't feel good faith at all. But given the claim that's a problem I might not even have to deal with tomorrow.

You, uh, don't have just 4 flips to go off of.

I clocked that Shadez was town immediately after I saw that Jackson was a wolf, I thought that you might've as well. You also caught that I was crumbing something about Progon, so I would think that you would've at least consider that I had some form of guilty on Progon. Given those two facts alone, I thought that you would've figured out that, at least from my POV, the game was shrunk down to just finding the last scum between you and Neugon.

Given that I thought you had figured the above, it was very suspicious for you to throw shade Neugon's way, instead of showing what you thought was scummy about Lucca/Neugon.

[Jake The Wolfie]

?

Aureal, why this hostility? I'm sorry for this terrible miscommunication between us, it wasn't my intent to act selfish and self-centered in my responses to you. I really hope that I'm not causing you emotional distress here.

These are the posts in particular that I thought you were shading Neugon instead of providing commentary on them, the former of which I believe is scum indicative while the latter would obviously be town indicative:

Spoiler: NOTTHEBEES.exe

2.FINAL

Votecount 2.FINAL

Jacob24 (EXECUTED): Black, Save The Dragons, Roden, Argonauts, lucca261, JacksonVirgo

Not Voting (5): Jake The Wolfie, shaddowez, SirCakez, Jacob24, Skygazer

With 11 players alive, it took 6 votes to secure an execution.

I would also like to point out that Jacob was executed with 2 (probably 3, with Shadez being practically conf!town, 4 if you'd be willing to humor me) town off-wagon. That wagon was hella contaminated lol.

So, Dragons or.......uhh, Dragons.....

You think it is a couple of fire breathers?

-Asclepius

DE, did you actually read the game?

-Atalanta

By the way DE, don't think I haven't noticed you putting off claiming in order to read the game first. :igmeou:

-Atalanta

DE? He can be a bit flaky, but this is definitely contributing to a sinking read. :?

-Atalanta

When I questioned that there were 4 flips I meant that, in addition to the 4 axes, there were 5 deaths which leads to 9 flips in total and thus 9 whole flips for information. While the 4 axes can give you relational information between players, the 5 deaths can give you practical insight into how the wolves act.

[Jake The Wolfie]

Huh. That was strange.

Anyway, Argon I must apologize. I had sent an auditor who knows lots of sky-faring to check the quality of your ship, and it was squeaky clean. I shall never again doubt your divine authority.

In other news, get voted nerd
VOTE: DragonEater70

[Jake The Wolfie]

Sorry Neugon! You just got unlucky, repping into a suspicious slot. I hope we get to play a game in the future!

[Jake The Wolfie]

lmfao, the mafia

did

block Jackson N2

[Jake The Wolfie]

Orpheus, create us a poem for the ages.

[Jake The Wolfie]

I CONTRIBUTED TO TOWN VICTORY FOR ONCE IM GONNA CRY

Everyone who gets first blood on Not_Mafia contributes to a town victory

[Jake The Wolfie]

Spoiler: implies a role/alignment

I wonder if Jake is pressing JV so hard because he thinks duplicate roles aren't possible.

I was actually a little suspicious of Jackson having a similar role to mine, but I was mostly all in on the "Jackson you sly fox, I'm gonna get your head!"

[Jake The Wolfie]

Unlike Jackson, I do not believe in investigating who you think is already guilty, instead I believe in clearing ambiguity. For this reason, I didn't want to investigate those three.

Bro, I was talking through my teeth to justify who I chose. I agree with you, you should supplement where you're the weakest and that's generally your null-tier

lol in our next game I'm gonna poke fun at you with this. "Yeah i hear you and you sound reasonable. but also you investigate guilty ppl."