Open 901 - Normal Idea Mafia Redux - Postgame

[shaddowez]

VOTE: Black[/v]

Hello hello!

[shaddowez]

VOTE: Black[/v]

Hello hello!

I apparently failed and used different tags to start and end my vote. :/

[shaddowez]

Welcome shaddowez...

To the arena.

I don't think I belong here

[shaddowez]

VOTE: cakez

modz suk

that is a gross mischaracterization and i will not stand for it

Did you or did you not put Cakes on L-7?

Objection!

[shaddowez]

Mans spitting facts

A game where the roles are made up and the facts don't matter!

[shaddowez]

Maybe. But would scum ask that?

Maybe. But would scum ask

that

?

[shaddowez]

Maybe. But would scum ask that?

Maybe. But would scum ask

that

?

Actually, let me rephrase. Why do you think that scum wouldn't ask something like that?

[shaddowez]

Unironically suspecting shaddowez

OK. But why?

[shaddowez]

I'm clueless as to why there's a wagon on me right now.

I realized I forgot to post my weekend V/LA

and

there is no school or work tomorrow, so I'll be back Tuesday

[shaddowez]

I'm here and catching up. The fact that there's a wagon on me is crazy. We're less than half way through D1, and I've had basically nothing but RVS input because I'm V/LA on weekends (and had stuff on either side that made things exciting too).

I will be in and out since the kids are home and I have to shovel, but will answer questions and address things as I read through them.

[shaddowez]

Halfway through, end of page 8.

why so many questions so early Jackson

You need to answer why you asked this next time you pop into this thread

Gut read kinda telas me you were trying to get the "town trying to get us out of RVS" townpoints

but at the same time i'm afraid its just a residual vibes read of the other time we played together, i thought you were scum and you were town

Wasn't it Clap that started that interaction? Why do you think JV was the one trying to get out of RVS?

So far I haven't gotten an answer to either of these, so if they're between here and now this post can be ignored:

Maybe. But would scum ask that?

Maybe. But would scum ask

that

?

Actually, let me rephrase. Why do you think that scum wouldn't ask something like that?

Unironically suspecting shaddowez

OK. But why?

[shaddowez]

Summary of some reads so far:

Town-lean on Argo, STD (

Clap

), and JV.
Scum-lean on lucca, Invisibility, and Macho (I know we're waiting on a replacement there).

[shaddowez]

Wasn't it Clap that started that interaction?

Depends what you mean by started the interaction

I see 50 as being the catalyst that started moving from RVS banter to actual reads.

[shaddowez]

reads

Discussion is probably a better word.

[shaddowez]

I've just gotten to the end of page 7 and I'm tempted to start a running tally of how many of Jackson's posts are just quoting someone and asking a question.

Does this mean something to you?

Some catch-up thoughts

Spoiler:

Feel good about HT and Black so far.

Null on JV. @204 is kinda concerning for me. It's a non-commitable accusation and the 'Am I looking too deeply?" is a sudden change in tone from a player that seems incredibly confident. I like the Macho Man vote though.

First thing that pinged me on my read-through is Shaddow coming back to rephrase a previous post after 20 minutes. @137 then @138. Kinda gives me the feel he's concerned about other people's reactions to his posts.

Reading the thread I had the same opinion as post @179 so that's enough to put HT at my townpile so far
Also liked Black for @194 because of the longest post bit

Disliked STD entrance. More of a vibe read than anything substancial, but it seems he's trying to look 'detached cool townie' if that makes sense.

And that's it. Something about the tone on @243 by Argonauts is also strange.

hello jake, let's talk

VOTE: Shaddowez
tell me: would scum do that?

I don't like this post, at all. There's a decent amount of fence sitting, and instead of discussing/questioning votes me because of a clarifying comment (which he still hasn't answered). Also extremely confused as to in what world that last line makes any sense - Yes? Regardless of your alignment, scum would indeed vote?

<pain>

I'm clueless as to why there's a wagon on me right now.

I realized I forgot to post my weekend V/LA

and

there is no school or work tomorrow, so I'll be back Tuesday

</pain>

Just so you're aware, you may not be alive by tuesday.

This didn't happen, but what would you have made of it if it did?

[shaddowez]

Summary of some reads so far:

Town-lean on Argo, STD (

Clap

), and JV.
Scum-lean on lucca, Invisibility, and Macho (I know we're waiting on a replacement there).

Why Invisibility?

At the time, 82 pinged me the wrong way, and then talking about answering a question and catching up then disappearing again in 318. There's only been one post since and it was a half-hearted answer with another "sorry, catching up" so didn't do much to change my mind.

The rest of this is on a traditional

Spoiler catch-up time

!

....snipped because n/a.......

@319. ehhhhhhhhhhh this is not a good reaction to the wagon

....snipped because n/a.......

It was literally a 3 second post to prodge and let everyone know I was V/LA. The pagetop was a VC, which was the only reason I even referenced a wagon

Halfway through, end of page 8.

why so many questions so early Jackson

You need to answer why you asked this next time you pop into this thread

Gut read kinda telas me you were trying to get the "town trying to get us out of RVS" townpoints

but at the same time i'm afraid its just a residual vibes read of the other time we played together, i thought you were scum and you were town

Wasn't it Clap that started that interaction? Why do you think JV was the one trying to get out of RVS?

So far I haven't gotten an answer to either of these, so if they're between here and now this post can be ignored:

It was clear that JV was trying to get us out of RVS. He is doing it even now, on page 14-15, because nothing is happening. I never even commented on Clap vs. JV because I kinda thought it was a boring discussion and Clap was being abrasive. The questions that pinged me were @84, @85 and @87, all in sequence.

I don't like your reaction, Shaddow. It seems you're trying to find stuff to incriminate me because I voted for you.

The post you quoted wasn't incrimatory at all, it was me trying to understand why you thought JV was trying to get out of RVS rather that Clap. I responded to JV about the same thing in 372, and while I agree that JV was continuing to further the game state, I don't agree it was him that started to try and get out of RVS.

As for me trying to incriminate you because you voted for me, why do you feel I would have singled you out? You weren't the first, the last, or the most vocal about it.

So @Shaddow why are you scumreading Macho Man?

I believe someone else may have already said this, but while she was posting a lot, very little of it was game advancing, or if it was it was too obfuscated by the roleplay to be useful. The vote hopping seemed like it was trying to find anyplace that would gain traction, rather than doing anything with the vote itself.

[shaddowez]

Shadez catch-up was alright(?) but it didn't really inspire confidence in me that they were town. I can do a deeper breakdown if prompted.

Please do - if you don't feel convinced I'm town, do you think I'm scum?

[shaddowez]

Let's see if a player can be scorched like disappearing ink!

VOTE: Invisibility

[shaddowez]

I still like where my vote is. Invisibility showed up after I voted them, and their catch up felt like more of a "Oops, have to do something. I'm busy most of the day, but will do another read through and post more thoughts this afternoon.

[shaddowez]

That would mean they need to show up.

-Says the pot, I know.

[shaddowez]

I'm down to lim Jacob, but not this fast. I was beginning to SR the slot towards the end of yesterDay. Not around long enough to give reasonings, but will do so tomorrow.

That reaction to the kills last night was bad, though.

[shaddowez]

Has she been in prod range? I call mod favoritism

[shaddowez]

Yes would have been a better answer. Once I’m gone, town knows what to do. I’ll die a martyr for the town.

How does this even make sense? Mislims happen

because

we don't know your alignment, why should someone that's wrong be the auto-next lim? Unless it's a 1v1 (cc, for example).

Anyway, if this flips red then the hydra is incredibly townie

Agreed to that

Forgot that Argo voted me… seemed odd but Argo did seem to be thinking though

So do you think they're town regardless of your flip?

[shaddowez]

I manually counted and only 12 roles can interfere with that result, out of 150

JV used the fact that there are only 12 roles to make the case that I was mafia, because he believed the chances were so low of him being deceived, that me being mafia is the only possibility. By the same logic, if I am town as I claim, then the small chance is the only way he could be town also. It goes both ways.

There's technically another possibility as well, but since you didn't mention it I'm going to assume it's not the case.

JV, please tell me this isn't a repeat.

[shaddowez]

I'll be back online at around 1900 Eastern Time (About 3 hours from now). Intent to hammer if there are no objections by then.

[shaddowez]

@mod - V/LA until Monday

Noted.

- Alianna

[shaddowez]

Prod received, life blew up. Reading and trying to catch up, but will only be around on and off for the next couple hours

[shaddowez]

Cakez, feel free to shoot this guy tonight. Or shaddowez.

-Atalanta

Please don't do this, you'll hurt more than my feelings.

[shaddowez]

I did a super quick phone read, and right now think the JV/Jake siscussion is TvT.

Believe the Cakez claim too.

Going to ISO Sky since she's the current wagon

[shaddowez]

I feel like I'm in a bad position no matter what. I'm already run up, so if I hammer and Sky is town, chances are I either get vig shot (which would be

terrible

) or close to an auto-lim tomorrow.

If she's scum, since this many people are already pushing me, there's a bus argument.

I'm still reading, will try to post more later but may not be until tomorrow.

[shaddowez]

Trying to read now. Busy day at work,

and

one of my kids is home because he had to go for a strep test :/ (He was negative)

Apologies if I'm not around as much as I expected to be today.

[shaddowez]

i get that that looks like tmi but my thought process behind that post was literally just "vig = 3 kills but we have 2 kills"

We had a JK and a doctor, why are you discounting any other protectives/commuter types?

i feel like i also would have probably been shot by now by vig-cakez

What makes you feel that you're the best vig shot, especially from a limited-shot role?

i am a town neighbour

The only town neighbor roles are either friendly or neighborizers, so you should have somebody that can prove this. There is, amusingly enough, a mafia neighbor with no modifiers though.

[shaddowez]

I mean I don't wanna poke and prod unnecessarily but if it's so terrible wouldn't claiming be more beneficial than just vague "threats"

Not a threat, and not really. I will if necessary, but think it's better if I don't. I've crumbed, but I'm terrible at doing that so would not be surprised if it's not picked up.

[shaddowez]

shadow, are you usually self-conscious as town?
~o

I don't necessarily think so, but people in multiple recent games have thought I was concerned about how other people saw me because of clarifying posts I've made. Not sure if that's what you're going for or not.

[shaddowez]

I feel like I'm in a bad position no matter what. I'm already run up, so if I hammer and Sky is town, chances are I either get vig shot (which would be

terrible

) or close to an auto-lim tomorrow.

If she's scum, since this many people are already pushing me, there's a bus argument.

I'm still reading, will try to post more later but may not be until tomorrow.

who do you think should be vigged instead of you? I want to get this shot off tonight because I expect to either be NKed or eliminated v soon

Probably lucca. I've had a mild SR there, and upon an ISO review it grew stronger. Will try to make my case there today, but may not have a chance due to life. Tomorrow should be

mucu

quieter of a day if I don't get to it today.

[shaddowez]

So scum is just Sky/StD and one of Lucca or Jackson is deepwolfing

GG

Assuming that roles were not changed, with the claim I think it's Sky out of the first group.

[shaddowez]

also concerned that 90% of Invisibility content is talking about Not_Mafia when NM has been doing nothing since like page 7
the "My worldview is based around Not_Mafia" on @459 is weird for me based around on how detached Invi is from the game

like it kinda tells me he was worried about how people would read his catch-up? (not necessarily something only scum would be worried about, but given how detached he feels...)

lucca says this about Invis, but then never mentions them again until D2, where he's pushing people that voted for Invis.

[shaddowez]

Dang English people, you're right. Fake claim argument is retracted.

[shaddowez]

lol, this is great. You're accusing me of "blatantly distorting my views to push me". Let's go over the facts, shall we?

Of the

10

times that you mention Invisibility at all before 1527, you use "Invi"

twice

. Upon reviewing your ISO, I did a search for "Invis" and did miss those two instances in that one post. That post, which conveniently happens to be saying you'd be willing to vote there, still not voting there, and after the hammer. So yes, it was close to the other post, but I didn't see it based on my specific search for which I was using.

Then 1529 is just laughable. I said in 1495,

before

Black said anything about you.

So, where's the misrep?

[shaddowez]

VOTE: shadow I think they have some partner equity with black so this would give me some insight

So if I'm reading this correctly you're scum reading Black, but my flip is what will give you insight into Black's alignment? Why would me flipping green change your mind about Black?

[shaddowez]

I came back to the game to see my post from earlier never actually posted, and just disappeared from the post box.

Hi

I am scum reading you

I think your activity and posts have been unimpressive. I am sympathetic to rl issues so I will keep thinking about this but that's where I'm at now.

This part I'm good with. You're wrong, but that's part of the game. Thinking my posts are unimpressive shouldn't be scummy, unless you're trying to push something for no better reason. Do you regularly consider "not blatantly town" scum?

I think if you flip red, black would be a potential partner

I think if you flip green, I'm not sure what it would mean for blacks alignment, but I would consider this fact when thinking about it.

This is the part I don't like. D1

and

D2 you don't talk about me at all. Then beginning of D3 you come in, naked vote me, and then claim that it's from me doing nothing (which again, at most should be NAI).
Black you also don't mention on D1

or

D2. Come D3 you call Jake's push on Black a vanity wagon in 1466, then post half arguments about Black, vote her, unvote her, then continue to shade her.

After that, you go back to me, saying there's partner equity. So either you don't think Black is scum anymore

unless

I'm scum (which doesn't sound like how you're viewing her as of this post - I realize later posts may indicate otherwise) or flipping me first doesn't make sense with that as a reason.

[shaddowez]

i don't really like that Jake was present D1 but ever since then he's just throwing barbs out and not doing anything to look for scum

What are your thoughts on Sky? I can't tell what your actual read is on her based on your recent posts, and isn't she doing basically the same thing?

got a little heated unexpectedly (sorry Shaddow, think I crossed the line a little bit)

It's all good, as long as people don't start attacking me personally I don't take it personal, I know the game can get like that sometimes.

[shaddowez]

Day 1 Lim Wagon

Invisibility (EXECUTED): shaddowez, Black, SirCakez, Jake The Wolfie, Save The Dragons,

Hu Tao

, Skygazer,

Roden

Day 2 Lim Wagon

Jacob24 (EXECUTED): Black, Save The Dragons,

Roden

, Argonauts, lucca261, JacksonVirgo

Day 3 E-1 Wagons

Skygazer (E-1): SirCakez, Argonauts, lucca261, Black

shaddowez (E-1): Save The Dragons, JacksonVirgo, Jake The Wolfie, lucca261

shaddowez (E-1): JacksonVirgo, Jake The Wolfie, lucca261, Save The Dragons

Not sure what this means, if anything, yet. Black and StD are the only players on both mislims (though I would have hammered Jacob if he was still alive when I came back). With 3 scum it's easy enough for them to split up.

[shaddowez]

I will vote sky, StD, Jackson...whatever counterwagon to shaddow's gets the most support

Other game finally ended after a dragged out final Day, so I can say things I've been holding back on. The Skygazer had steam on it until all of a sudden it didn't, and pivoted to me as a strong counter wagon. On top of that, Sky's play here is different than in 894. It feels like she's trying to be as nonchalant as she was in that game, but trying a little bit more. It feels forced, and while I don't disagree with StD that her play makes it seem like she's thinking about the game, I don't see why that can't be from a scum POV.

VOTE: Skygazer

[shaddowez]

i don't feel particularly compelled by the shaddow wagon but can go there if i need to

VOTE: shaddow

Where are your scum reads? Enough people have already stated willingness to lim me, this feels like an easy hop.

[shaddowez]

If desired I'll claim, but it makes my role almost useless.

[shaddowez]

I'm a novice babysitter. N1 I couldn't do anything, N2 I chose Cakez.

I'm clueless as to why there's a wagon on me right now.

The fact that there's a wagon on me is crazy

Let's see if a player can be scorched like disappearing ink!

^ All things Alicia Silverstone was in (she was also in The Babysitter). As I said, terrible, but it was the best I could do.

[shaddowez]

clueless

crazy

scorched

Mean to highlight the exact things in the quotes.

[shaddowez]

Meant to highlight the exact things in the quotes.

Ebwop. Going to get more coffee now, apparently I shouldn't be posting yet.

[shaddowez]

WHY WOULD YOU TARGET THE CLAIMED ASCETIC

WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU GUYS

-ATALANTA

1) I forgot at the time I submitted
2) Even after I realized I was dumb and was thinking that only active roles were affected (cop/rolecop/tracker/etc), not all.

[shaddowez]

Seems believable. So does the claim

I will say the blind faith is starting to feel like TMI.

[shaddowez]

So anyway, we can leash shaddowez so that vigging him takes out another PoE tonight

I had my own idea, but who are you thinking?

[shaddowez]

Isn't Shadez just claiming to be an advanced Doctor? How would babysitter ever be informationally useful?

That's why I said claiming makes my role essentially useless, because either:

1) I continue protecting like normal and scum gets a 2 for 1 when they decide to kill me, or
2) I don't protect anyone, and risk scum not killing me for WIFOM.

[shaddowez]

Granted those aren't the only two options, but me continuing to protect while hoping they kill not me is risky at best, since that also protects another target.

[shaddowez]

Not on for long, but here to say I babysat StD last night.

[shaddowez]

[instagram][/instagram]

Antigon, Argon, and Progon. What are your roles?

i think we've claimed?
but we are backup miller who is now just miller cause cakez is dead.
~o

This brings up a good point - why did you claim when you did?

[shaddowez]

Also, I have no clue why there are instagram tags in my previous post...

[shaddowez]

[instagram][/instagram]

Antigon, Argon, and Progon. What are your roles?

i think we've claimed?
but we are backup miller who is now just miller cause cakez is dead.
~o

This brings up a good point - why did you claim when you did?

I originally figured we didn't need to unless a miller flipped. Then Cakez claimed vig and was scumreading us over this post where Orpheus jokingly crumbed backup cop:

black, we meet again.
also, i'll just VOTE: roden
consider this not serious.
k, i'm going to regret this.
unless drew and aureal want it, i'm not going to crumb.
pls tell me if u want me to sign with my username instead.
c u, not a crumb.
~o
(pls, i hope i don't regret this.)

So I went "nope, not gonna get shot by the vig over the silly crumb" and clarified.

-Atalanta

You claimed in 243, right after Cakez claimed in 235. Vig wasn't mentioned until well after that.

[shaddowez]

Completely ignoring claims for the moment StD, largely based on voting records.

Especially

considering this could be multiball.

Not liking Argo's claim/explanation either. Seems convenient that there was a "crumb" and then chose backup miller after a miller was claimed. The "I was afraid I was gonna get vigged" is based on 72 and 236, so something's just not sitting right with me there.

[shaddowez]

Completely ignoring claims for the moment StD, largely based on voting records.

Especially

considering this could be multiball.

Not liking Argo's claim/explanation either. Seems convenient that there was a "crumb" and then chose backup miller after a miller was claimed. The "I was afraid I was gonna get vigged" is based on 72 and 236, so something's just not sitting right with me there.

I don't think this is multiball?

On mobile so can't just quote the one line from the rules, but it says the antitown players have an equal chance of being mafia or werewolf, unless that's for the entire faction?

Any thoughts on Lucca?

DE hasn't done anything to change my mind since 1500, but as far as I can tell Black was the only other person that agreed.

[shaddowez]

That's the one

[shaddowez]

4.02

Votecount 4.02

Save The Dragons (E-2): Argonauts
Argonauts (E-2): Save The Dragons

Not Voting (3): Jake The Wolfie, DragonEater70, shaddowez

With 5 players alive, it takes 3 votes to secure an execution.

The day deadline is in (expired on 2024-02-17 20:06:15).

Though if it's Argo/StD then I am not really sure ehy they decided to crossvote now unless they're hoping to get towncred from bussing, which I guess makes a tiny bit of sense? But it does feel off

Considering this is ELO, this doesn't make sense. With 2 scum left they can force an elim on town which is a guaranteed win.

[shaddowez]

I'm also finding it curious that nobody asked me about my reads

So based on that last post and this, do you think Jake is scum? Because that's the only other scenario that works if you're not (coming from my POV, of course).

[shaddowez]

Considering this is ELO, this doesn't make sense. With 2 scum left they can force an elim on town which is a guaranteed win.

Also, based on this and the fact that everybody's posted since Argo voted for StD makes me really think that it's StD+1, otherwise both scum could've joined Argo and won.

[shaddowez]

Considering this is ELO, this doesn't make sense. With 2 scum left they can force an elim on town which is a guaranteed win.

Also, based on this and the fact that everybody's posted since Argo voted for StD makes me really think that it's StD+1, otherwise both scum could've joined Argo and won.

Unless it's Argo....ugh. Now I'm doubting myself.

[shaddowez]

Scum can't force an elim on town in ELo

If you and Argo are both town, both scum could vote you and win.

[shaddowez]

P-Edit

: Yeah, just realized I was doing that, fixing it in this post.

Scum can't force an elim on town in ELo

If StD and Argo are both town, both scum could vote [redacted] and win.

The same goes for both "wagons" right now. And since I know that I'm town, that would mean that you and Jake would both have to be scum in order for StD and Argo to both be town.

[shaddowez]

Got crazy busy at work this week.

I'm not going to say that Shadez would be a fool for protecting anyone here (as anyone he protects would be liable to dying if he was killed), but it would not be the move I'd make. Regardless, if no one dies tonight, it will be the topic of discussion that gets unraveled tommorrow.

This is part of why I'm not ending the day quite yet. While you can consider this intent to hammer StD, I'm procrastinating for time to try and figure out what to do ToNight. I've run through most of the scenarios I can think of in my head, and really trying to figure out which ones are last likely to cause us to lose overnight.

[shaddowez]

Wowww.

1) Thanks for modding Alianna, well done!
2) Good game all! That got hairy
3) I'm learning to trust my instincts (N3 was with the likelihood of Cakez using his shot on me)
4) I need to trust my instincts more. I chickened out N4, but literally had the PM written to target DE