Large Normal 247 - Postgame

[PenguinPower]

[PenguinPower]

VOTE: snow

[PenguinPower]

i think atleast 1 scum is hiding there

oops

[PenguinPower]

page 2 yeet?

[PenguinPower]

because i'm based

[PenguinPower]

because i'm based

Not sure what you mean by based?

Penguin is based

[PenguinPower]

murder willow sounds like a very awesome tree that i would like to plant in my backyard.

[PenguinPower]

VOTE: hu Tao

[PenguinPower]

Impressive doodling.

[PenguinPower]

Your role PM should be yellow. Double check.

[PenguinPower]

VOTE: willow

[PenguinPower]

I obey only the wagon gods

[PenguinPower]

You’re braying down the wrong penguin.

[PenguinPower]

I assumed it was so he wouldn't be tied for the biggest wagon

[PenguinPower]

agreed. gotta use the post tags.

[PenguinPower]

also kinda dont like Penguin´s position on Wisp,

why not?

[PenguinPower]

VOTE: Penguin

You raise a decent point. I like this spot on the wagon the least

Indeed, I too find that in the realm of wagon dynamics, also known as wagonomics, nestled snugly within the town/scum-plane curvature of said wagon's interior, lies a peculiar point dubbed "Point PP3" or the PenguinPoint. This enigmatic locus defies conventional wagon analysis, oscillating between states of scum-like ambiguity and town-like absurdity. Its coordinates, expressed purely in the language of mathematics, would be as follows: (π^2 + √5, 2.71828...).

It is here, within the confines of Point PP3, the laws of wagonomics intertwine with the calculus of imagination, yielding conclusions that dance in the mists of uncertainty. It has been said that only the most audacious of waggoners dare venture close, for at this singular spot, the very fabric of rationality frays into nonsense, where town and scum lose their meaning, and the imaginary alignment frolics merrily with its real counterparts. Truly, Point PP3 stands as a testament to the profound absurdity that lurks beneath the veneer of wagonomics.

[PenguinPower]

well that was well explained.

i've got that ick-factor in addition to the Point PP3.

[PenguinPower]

i've been caught all...yeet me out of here.

[PenguinPower]

[PenguinPower]

why do you suspect dave

[PenguinPower]

why do you suspect dave

Meta. He seems off this game.

go on...

[PenguinPower]

I'm not super happy with the amount of people not wanting to commit to any reads atm, but got to think about what that means for each of them right now.

i'm not super happy with the amount of people not wanting to lay down a vote atm

[PenguinPower]

I'm not super happy with the amount of people not wanting to commit to any reads atm, but got to think about what that means for each of them right now.

i'm not super happy with the amount of people not wanting to lay down a vote atm

VOTE: PenguinPower

Your wish is my command!

ty tbh, at least you're doing something meaningful

[PenguinPower]

I feel like RN and Oblivion have been absent from the game and not just “not voting” so really it was me and Thomith that Penguin had the issue with but I don’t really see why it’s a problem. I explained when I unvoted that I wanted to figure out the best option that wasn’t Naerys since I didn’t believe in that wagon. Unfortunately, the game hasn’t moved much so I didn’t get much info on where to place my vote.

no - it was, as i said, everyone not voting.

voting = doing something meaningful

words = saying a bunch of stuff that could or could not be meaningful

[PenguinPower]

VOTE: davesaz

If Naeyrs is a dead wagon, going back to my own choice.

why not murder tree?

[PenguinPower]

Do you scum read the people that were not voting?

Did I say I did?

[PenguinPower]

what did i say...hmmm....oh

voting = doing something meaningful

words = saying a bunch of stuff that could or could not be meaningful

[PenguinPower]

i've been pretty clear at this point why i think voting is important

[PenguinPower]

happy that's your perspective, but it doesn't actually convey meaningful information that is readily viewable by people who can't read your mind

[PenguinPower]

You act like I haven’t been posting at all.

Where did I say this? I was pretty explicity on my stance of posting/voting, but I don't recall saying or acting like you haven't been posting so if you could help me understand where I did that...

[PenguinPower]

I agree, but now I'm directly asking you for you think it's alignment indicative from the people that are not/we're not voting.

Not in isolation, no.

[PenguinPower]

oh ok...good chat

[PenguinPower]

i too enjoy raising points and then dropping them when pressed

[PenguinPower]

buddy - i want people to vote becuase it creates objective information to look back on once there are flips. this is a stance that i am well known for taking. there's nothing more to it than that.

[PenguinPower]

Penguin has the same philosophy that I have. Early large wagons are quite valuable to town.

I think Oblivion's take on Penguin meta is correct. It would be a very easy thing to fake as scum, so the town conclusion is a but suspect.
I can't town bin Oblivion on that because its approach was very similar in the last game and it flipped scum. It's only a sample size of 1 so not very strong.

i mean...

[PenguinPower]

VOTE: davesaz

If Naeyrs is a dead wagon, going back to my own choice.

why not murder tree?

Who?

willow - the wagon i'm currently on

for clarity:

come murder willow with me Hu Tao

murder willow sounds like a very awesome tree that i would like to plant in my backyard.

[PenguinPower]

bigger wagon than dave....

why's there a reason to hop on dave's?

[PenguinPower]

noted and disagreed with

[PenguinPower]

but I think getting peoples stances on other players is also just as useful

disagree - it's easier to explain away words (since they don't have an actual objective impact) than votes.

[PenguinPower]

i've seen it done many times in the past

[PenguinPower]

that's exactly what happened

[PenguinPower]

tbf i would be fine with a NAS yeet. worked out very well last time.

[PenguinPower]

VOTE: nas

[PenguinPower]

I'm really not buying NAS, like, this play seems kinda too audacious to pull off as scum

NAS literally just did this in the last game we played so...disagree.

Even if town, someone who posts at the equivalent level of the backup mod by eod D1 is a liability.

[PenguinPower]

not sure why were are assuming there's a vig tbh

[PenguinPower]

Every game has a vigilante these days.

so the shift away from complex modifiers in normals really just resulted in ensuring there's a pew pew in every game?

great move

[PenguinPower]

ugh...that's so...pedestrian. I would much prefer an Odd-Night Disloyal Combined Checker Fruit Vendor

[PenguinPower]

VC

idk - this votecount seem to indicate otherwise

[PenguinPower]

The resistance to NAS is telling.

[PenguinPower]

…really?

[PenguinPower]

That there is resistance

[PenguinPower]

You tell me what you think that means.

[PenguinPower]

Snow has no idea what’s going on and may as well not be in this game.

[PenguinPower]

No - I'm surprised we ended D1 with less than 2000 posts tbh.

[PenguinPower]

Oblivion and Gypyx need prods...don't think they've posted this day phase.

[PenguinPower]

Oblivion and Gypyx need prods...don't think they've posted this day phase.

hello penguin

[PenguinPower]

VOTE: dave

[PenguinPower]

yeah, one of you five is scum.

[PenguinPower]

at least - i was an asshat once and put two scum in a neighborhood so that's a possibility as well.

[PenguinPower]

Wow all I had to do was mildly complain and bam!


Damn, I really wish I had a million dollars…
(just checking my luck here)

for your next trick, ask scum to out themselves

[PenguinPower]

I have no experience with neighborhoods, so I might look for a little guidance on how to approach this. Are we just playing with the understanding that at least 1 person in that group is bad?

yeah - typically established with neighborhoods of multiple people (rather than neighborizer who adds people to neighborhoods) routinely have scum in them. i did an analysis of all normal games a few years back showing like >80%, but i don't really want to do that again.

[PenguinPower]

If you’re a baddie, you should respond to this post with an easily decipherable newbie-friendly code. TIA

I Assume you don't Mean to actually Solicit sCum into oUting theMselves.

[PenguinPower]

threes probably a bit much. definitely one. potentially two.

[PenguinPower]

if there are five in there at the start of d1, that's a safe assumption

[PenguinPower]

if there are five in there at the start of d1, that's a safe assumption

It doesn't think that a role that during Night 0 decides 4 other players to join them in a hood is outside Normal realms, but it is not familiar with what this website defines as "Normal" so.

you know - i was always under the assumption that normal games were required to be day starts and i can't recall a night start game...but that doesn't seem to be on the wiki anymore.

[PenguinPower]

threes probably a bit much. definitely one. potentially two.

can i at least ask you to trust my instinct and not completely shove it to the side? i'm telling you the vibes are extremely off, i could also probably make a decent case on that

sure. i'm not going to discount anything, but it's falls at the bottom of my likeliness pile

[PenguinPower]

this whole normal guidelines split into three separate guidelines to reduce complexity just increases the complexity i have to go through to find out what is or isn't allowed in this game

what a w i l d decision

[PenguinPower]

i think even if you don't trust it too much, it's more likely for us to have every scum in the hood than none of them

i meant the bottom of my likeliness pile in terms of what you quoted. i definitely don't think there is zero scum in there.

[PenguinPower]

Meanwhile, it is just sitting here deciding whether interrogating Gypyx in French is allowed within the rules. Probably not, right?

not unless i get to interrogate you in japanese

[PenguinPower]

also, no

[PenguinPower]

also i'm not a mod anymore so don't listen to anything i say

[PenguinPower]

it's not like this is cryptography or anything right?

not a mod - just saying how it used to be ruled. it creates private communication channel between native speakers that even if we were to use translation software, may have nuances that the software doesn't pick up.

[PenguinPower]

I think this is a pretty bad readslist as in very scum motivated

[PenguinPower]

and here i was all excited for accurate tierlists

[PenguinPower]

and here i was all excited for accurate tierlists

My reads are accurately tiered, perhaps you need to evaluate your stances instead?

I mean they are objectively wrong in at least one instance so…you.

[PenguinPower]

Alright - go ahead and catch up when you’re feeling better.

[PenguinPower]

Not Voting (5): Oblivion, Snow2697, geraintm, KayJayQueue, Titus

Stop it. Stop it now.

[PenguinPower]

Not Voting

(5): Oblivion, Snow2697, geraintm, KayJayQueue, Titus

Stop it. Stop it now.

What

made it a bit more obvious for you

[PenguinPower]

Not Voting (5): Oblivion, Snow2697, geraintm, KayJayQueue, Titus

Stop it. Stop it now.

What

Assuming this is going back to the Day 1 discussion of Penguin wanting people to use their vote so we have information on them once we have more flips.

it's a bit more than that now since the gamestate has stalled and ~half the players aren't voting anyone

[PenguinPower]

valid - thanks for expressing that

[PenguinPower]

Last time i checked stalled gamestate means town is on the right track and scum don't wanna cooperate

it can also mean town is on the wrong track and scum have no incentive to derail

[PenguinPower]

i really just want the nonvoters to do something today

[PenguinPower]

VOTE: naerys

i've been swayed.

[PenguinPower]

Glad to see sites back up.

[PenguinPower]

VOTE: hu Tao

[PenguinPower]

what did ranger claim...i missed it.

[PenguinPower]

VOTE: ranger

[PenguinPower]

that's a claim i would expect from scum ranger. she'll just try to wriggle out of it later with some big brained reasoning.

[PenguinPower]

nuh uh

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... lex_Normal

So we're in a complex normal then?

Still not buying Ranger's claim regardless. I lived through a large where two scum had 2 kpn and vigs banned after. Guess I never reviewed the change.

2. This game is Complex. Below is a description of what that means.

[PenguinPower]

I'll be here more starting tomorrow.

Oblivion is locktown.

[PenguinPower]

VOTE: naerys

[PenguinPower]

This is not a scum post:

I'm willing to go outside the hood today, because I will admit I'm 100% tunnelled on Snow right now. Rightly or wrongly, I guess we'll see.

FWIW this is where I think I am right now:

Gypyx
Naerys
Titus

KayJayQueue
Oblivion
Random Nurse

geraintm
PenguinPower

Lycanfire
Snow2697

This is an awful reads list and it thinks you can die after Naerys.

Lycanfire and Penguin swapped the momentum away from Ranger living to Ranger dying. It was the one responsible for ensuring Ranger died. Those 3 slots are town and never dying today. Snow and Hu Tao were attempted counter wagons to save Ranger. Also town.

[PenguinPower]

Naerys is town

[PenguinPower]

[PenguinPower]

You're going to have to sell me on massclaiming today.

[PenguinPower]

sold

[PenguinPower]

yeah...i'm with gypyx on this one.

you can't say "two nights of results are sufficient" without knowing what roles are in the game.

[PenguinPower]

well - the PRs are uniquely situated to make that assessment themselves and out if they determine it's worthwhile.

[PenguinPower]

fleeting thought that gypyx and oblivion are performative scum and i chuckled for a minute

[PenguinPower]

lol - 4 scum in a 15p with a 5p neighborhood would need super town power to be balanced.

[PenguinPower]

If this is a “complex” where all prs are neighbors I’m gonna be big mad.

[PenguinPower]

lmao - 5 scum is like a 90% scum win rate in mountainous. What is this discussion?

[PenguinPower]

While I was joking about oblivion and gypyx, rn and kjq was a bad discussion.

[PenguinPower]

[PenguinPower]

That the thought there is 5 scum in this game is horridly fake.

[PenguinPower]

So who you voting KJQ? You’ve already limited yourself.

[PenguinPower]

We’ve hit one scum in hood. Why are you still wanting to vote in with certainty over out given you keep saying it’s a distraction?



Why am I scum?

[PenguinPower]

I'm saying assume there's 4 Scum.

Do you understand that?

Do you understand the words you write?

Second question, did you read what I wrote re: 4 scum?

[PenguinPower]

So you can’t articulate a reason. Got it.

[PenguinPower]

Heaven forbid we argue or debate in a game of mafia.

[PenguinPower]

Yes. Shutting down and not discussing is pro-town. Keep it up.

[PenguinPower]

Glad to know that we call pressure bullying now byw.

[PenguinPower]

Actually, even just Informed is complex-only

I said my piece about this in the dead thread for the most part.

Thanks for modding Alianna. Thanks for repping in for me Psyche.

[PenguinPower]

Actually, even just Informed is complex-only

Really?

Should be changed to allow it for regular Normals.

You should let the listmod know. Change was made with a very small sample size (though it could have been made unilaterally) so your opinion should matter.