Mini 2332: A Mid-scummer Nights Dream II | GG

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

Today were not voting any one else. Only von payne or me. Put your votes in so we can resolve this and get whose reads are real and end this dispute before a mylo lylo.

Nothing was forced about raven vote on on von. Issue is that both scums are very load.

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

idk maybe im dumb and they should be obvious but i don't really see major contradictions that aren't explained by

1) the two heads having differing perspectives on things

2) them not being exactly sure whether they think their role would be protective or role blocking or neither and it more just being a vague theory

They would have to have one head thinking it was a roleblock, and the other head thinking it was a protective, and for both heads to agree to target the same person. That seems like a huge disconnect, and not really realistic.

i don't really think so at all? again this is black and white thinking that they had to have either 100% thought it was protective or 100% thought it was roleblock

they were both just ideas and that is stated pretty clearly from the beginning i think

Youre missing the entire points. These are ideas they had right? 20% on each? 30% jail keep?

They said it was why they wanted catgirl/prism. On each side of that logic in contradicts having you suggesting aureal and going for catgirl and prism. Black specifically mentioned she wanted to go for those two slot for the role block idea which on its own makes no sense. Sure no ones mindstate is as black and white. But consodering the contradictions with actions chosen

These ideas never existed. It was a story they made up and developed. Ghat is as black as it can get.

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

Catgirls analysis of game state is also pure trash. Tgeir entire hunt is based on this general mood check on game and a baseless poe that they did initially. They act as they solve but tgey arent. Still.

Its von and catgirl. Please vote me or von today and get catgirl and von if not already next.

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

With the claim and votes in order there isn't much left to do this day. Depending on Aureal's role, I'd probably flip Von Payne into (Ravens, Kirigiri, Catgirl, Sunflower) in later days.

good reads

Obviously they aren't good in regards to us(and ya I am different than in JOAT.....I have a role that I am utilizing lol)

But I do believe the overall sentiment

A bit of a crazy thought here, what if we flip Ravens instead of Kiri today?

This is what scum wants. Redirect attention elsewhere keep me vs them for mylo lylo and end game on my mislim.

How can no one else see how calculated this suggestion is? How can no one else see their BS in claiming they truely scum read me back?

This is where omgus is done by scum and not town. Von payne is scum

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

With the claim and votes in order there isn't much left to do this day. Depending on Aureal's role, I'd probably flip Von Payne into (Ravens, Kirigiri, Catgirl, Sunflower) in later days.

good reads

Yes good reads.

Flip von for me. For prism.

And the next one is in the pile too. I think catgirl.

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

When you wake up can you please reword these posts in a way cause i am trying but am failing to understand them.

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

@enchant
@actiondan
@ydresse
@sunflower

You guys need to vote either me or von today. 3 of you needed for any of those elims so its gonna be hard. But please dont go elsewhere. I know you will argue i didnt play to wincon begging to die today post game, but if this 1v1 of me and von which is a tvs (they are the scum in it) dont resolve today, town will loose.

Is von and catgirl. But at least get von even if it means misliming me first. I trust you guys. I trust this read. Im sure of it.

Help me

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

What was the "slip" and where did they push it? I think i missed that interaction

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

there is a less than 5% chance the last scum is in sunflower/raven dua. first cause oif the very narrow mindset and lack of critical solving and sidelining in most reads and the way they hard focus on certain reads in public neighborhoods, but I dont think so, cause even with their lackluster solves, they are trying to put themselves in other slots postions and check them from variont aspects.

raven is also very very gone. they almost had no impact in game in anyway so im not really certain about them at all. I have an okish feeling about them because they called out the aureal hide result first day 2.

enchant is town cause gimli was town. I can give 10 reasons for this and elaborate on it if needed period.

actiondan I also think is town cause of the way they reacted to being pushed day 1 and their general read based - present and anlytic posts.

ydresse is also I think is town with the claimy stuff and the way they dropped it day 2 and how you and catgirl pushed it at start of day 2, didnt feel partnered at all.

So i think scums are you and catgirl, raven > sunflower> action dan - ydresses > enchant in that order is my reads currently. with you being at 99.9999% scum and catgirl following it close enough.

I thought that Actiondan called out the hide result. Though we did follow up on it quickly.

Also i was truely misremembering the sequence there and him clarifying it makes me feel even better about both actiondan and raven.

I dont get how was him being first to push aureal makes him more scum than town

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

Well if youre town and im correct on catgirl, thats a rip for town regardless if i mislimed or not.

Guess i need to trust the heavy considerations

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

I forgot how exhusting this game can be. Please decide and put your votes soon.

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

Von payne wont turn put to be town.

They are scum

Like wtf. They are so obviously scum

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

And i wont replace out

Full responsibility of this loss on me if they turned out town. Tgey wont turn out town. 100% responsibility on me. 0% on any one else.

I am tunneping scum.

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

Tunneling

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

Its not cause i am. But its impossoble for this to be a tvt cause von is not one. Vote between us

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

I just say this one more time. Enchant dont let this get to mylo lylo. If that happens town looses in every universe cause they want this to confuse people to get them their last mislim. The vote must be on one of us so you can see i was town. Getting one of us instantly solves the other.

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

If you see von flip red will there be any doubt in your mind about me?

If you see i flip green will you for a second doubt my resolve in calling these two scum and betting my game on them? Will you "heavily condider" getting them for tge win?

Let this happen

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

Yeah it can be comming from wolves.

But its coming from a passionate town power role who thinks they have solved the game this time and thinks in a game where wolves are just yelling baseless shits instead of reason, and no one else sees it i also need to yell to get it happen. There is no other way to push you and von. This must happen

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

There is like 5% chance im wrong on catgirl and last scum is in sunflower raven, mostly leaning sunflower there

But there is no unoverse von wont flip red in

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

Sunflowers insist on misinterpreting the case on von and callkng it black and white thinking where its not and the collaborated try to get this out of a 1v1 between me and von here is scummy. You are free to try and make any linked read if i flipped red which i wont. For that the votes should be only on me or von today right?

So we agree

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

I explaoned my read and progression on every slot in game completly transparently and outight

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

I think you are 95% the third scum. The way you treated the game, went after me, the way you targeted ydresse day 2 with von and the way you even came to town read that slot is scummy.

But i see some resemblances of a partner in sunflower and von too. Its weak but there are some hints there.

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

I explaoned my read and progression on every slot in game completly transparently and outight

Do you want to win a prize or something?

That was an answer to your "were doing the same but im scum reading you doing it". We are not the same in that regard. Also i am not scum reading you not explaining your reads. I felt like you faked having those reads and tried to brute force them regardless.

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

Would u like to use the excuse of "I don't put out reads I don't have" to try to get out of forming a read on Silver Ravens?

I have a read on ravens. Posted it before. Explained it to you then. There was a me misremembering a sequence so i was thinking they posted des hint on aureal first but that was action dan. Raven feels really distant from game, but i dint see anything making them scummy in related to aureal.

The sequence in which they pushed for dream votes day 2 or how tgey voted von today are both meh. I also dont think they cant fake that slip hunt they did on sunflower as scum.

Overall they were always on pile of my scum leans closer to null.

I dont know why its wierd for you that im not confident enough to call tgem outright yown or scum. I barely ever am this certain about a read like i am with von.

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

Why do you townread von?

Why cant you explain this one single read to me?

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

Why do you townread von?

Why cant you explain this one single read to me?

Why would I do this?

If you're in town, assume for 1 second I'm town and misguided. I don't care or want to convince you or even make you consider it just saying hypothetically,

explain to me why you town read this slot?

Why is it so hard for you to do this?

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

Why do you townread von?

Why cant you explain this one single read to me?

Why would I do this?

If you're in town, assume for 1 second I'm town and misguided. I don't care or want to convince you or even make you consider it just saying hypothetically,

explain to me why you town read this slot?

Why is it so hard for you to do this?

I don't have an explanation for you that you will like

I promise to not even judge.

Just explain why you town read the slot.

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

Because I can very consistently spot town!Drew

fair enough. Your wrong there or scum, but sure.

You scumread me cause of a wrong and weak POE and cause you're scared of my range in scum play, But you're wrong also with that or scum.

I hope figuring you were wrong on one after this phase can help you wake up and at least try and reconsider the other if you're truly town.

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

in general villagers are just easier to find than mafia

I genuinely disagree but it might be a different approach and point of view.

Finding mafia is about finding who is faking having reads, is about finding who has a pattern of mindset and reads and actions that has blatant contradictions.

Anyone can fake anything a town can do.

finding scum is so easier

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

sure, ask if you have any questions.

or we can do that discussion post game to not crowd the game chat with general mafia theory

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

again i just do what I do and it works because well, it just works

hypothetically if you were wrong on one of us, would your read change on the other?

I say hypothetically not cause im not sure it will happen (I am), but cause im not trying even in slightest to convince you or make you even consider it.

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

it only doesn't work when I get complacent and lazy.
I know I'm not that.

yeah you're definitely not lazy here in this game. which is probably my main reason for having you as a scum read with the way you see/analyze game state

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

well if you're town, get ready to be stunlocked then.

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

I do not believe:

- that they thought it in first place. it was just them developing a "hidden risen" for having catgirl neighborized as I questioned what was its purpose. the theory makes no sense in first place neighter design wise, nor even semantical wise. a fucking mass public neighborizer jail keeper?
- that they didnt think of asking mod for clarifying their own role if this was a true suspicioun
- that they thought to get catgirl if they thought it has protective aspect.
- that they thought to get their first town reads sunflower, suggest second townread aureal and then prism and catgirl their town leans in it if they thought it will block them
- that this was a hydra thought and they really put any thought in such theory and possible targets for it together

plus they put out that protective part later out as people started questioning the ridiculousness of the role block part and the target choice for that alongside me, to make their targets make more sense.

how can not one see how that story got adopted in three pages to get where it got? completely out of hands

this in addition of that aureal public neighborhood call in night 1 which is a fucking scum tell and I dont know why no one else but me sees it

please vote von.

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

there's some scum players out there who are really fond of the approach of just dominating thread with posts and repeatedly spamming the same point over and over and self-quoting and drowning everyone else out and disregarding any counterpoints. it somehow works a surprising amount of the time because usually you only need to get 1 or 2 people to be browbeaten by it and back off, even if everyone else is against you

your comment made me like suddenly recognize that pattern as something that kyoko's posting feels somewhat similar to and it was a moment of like, oh. i think i see this for what it is now

then vote for me?

Spoiler: you will be disappointed. Just don't forget the promise the "heavy consideration" of going after my reads after.

Im not sure why its so hard for people to just drop a vote between me and von. I am begging you to vote.

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

What did the camera do enchant?

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

Sure and you think that was gifted to your slot by scum? More likely than a public neighborizer mechanically?

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

I was under impression it had something to do with the extra reveals

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

give it your wolf partner
make it use bad dream

Yes sure it can be scum. but it was gifted specifically to gimli/enchant.

I dont get why would they put their vote on me in this 1v1 over von.

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

Sure and you think that was gifted to your slot by scum? More likely than a public neighborizer mechanically?

UNVOTE:

I didn't knew it.

You didnt knew i sent it to you?

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

it's not that you don't get it, it's that you want enchant to vote the other player

Yes surprise, i want von voted and flipped red as they will.

But it made specifically no sense done by enchant

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

Kyoko, you targeted the other person in the lobby that you're friends with w/ the ability that was meant to be pockety

Sure its a logic. but it clearly had positive utility that enchant used. He also had a town read on me. So why vote me over von in this 1v1 by him?

I asked to be in this position of pressure myself. True. But u want me to die and not question slots stances on verge of getting mislimed? That wasnt the deal.

Also i targeted prism too but he died so there is that.

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

Sure and you think that was gifted to your slot by scum? More likely than a public neighborizer mechanically?

UNVOTE:

I didn't knew it.

You didnt knew i sent it to you?

Yea.

I claimed inventor few pages back. Also softed this last day phase to gimli and more directly with you at start of this phase.

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

I am liking this line of push from von on sunflower

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

I think if Kirigiri flips scum I need to seriously re-evaluate my Sunflower read

I think in general they have felt pretty hedgy with this whole Von/Kiri debacle

I really don't like this post by Jupiter where it doesn't even seem like he's considering Kirigiri as an Aureal/Silver Ravens partner

hi jupiter here its3am but I’ve skimmed a bit and silver ravens is scum. Will look into partners after but the way they approach the aurela is scummy. i think Dan is townier from that and ravens hopping onto that seems like trying to get as much towncred cuz aureals clearly already getting limmed
Dan town because people genrally thought it was klick (i thought it was filming at the time) pointing out its aureal and forcing a lim on her is just like. if they’re partnered what’s the point, i skimmed dragons iso and i didn’t even notice that bit, they’re just exposing partner and setting their team at a disadavnthe.
and bc Dan pointed it out and made it prerry clear that it was aureal silver ravens gains most towncred imo from agreeing with Dan and bussing straight off the bat, I think it’s scum hre

If Kiri flips red then we are most likely dead tonight so I think in that world it makes sense for me to put this out there

How is this evaluation related to my flip btw? How is this related ro me flipping red?

If they are not considering me as aureal partner why it didnt make you think they might be scum with tmi knowing im flipping green and hence finding other options?

Im not gonna flip red, play this thought for me a sec, hypotetically if thats an information, how does it effect this analysis?

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

demon slayer was modded by me.

that was the game where ali and his team mates were guiltied in 10 different ways, but he brute forced his "vision" of the game with spams to win. drew and ali were the scum team and from my point of view had a very dynamic with each other that they do here

Another thing I find intresting from that game was how swingy it was in nature. it really had a mass jailkeeper but the role made sense in that game setup

-------

so let me do a poe too

vons push on sunflower with points I also saw in their play, gave me a pause too. I think there is no universe in which actiondan or enchant are the scum here and ydresses was not counter claimed so both scum should be in von, catgirl, sunflower and raven imo. from which I think the pootential teams here are either catgirl von for the buddy buddy way they were since day 2 and how they move their votes together and find each other obvtown with no proper base or sunflower von. the second seemed a good link/team specially few pages ago, but it might have been a push done for that same reason. if ravne is a scum then the partner can be any of the three tbh. catgirl sunflower is also a possibility I was thinking past 2 pages, but I dont know why sunflower would play "hedgy" if that was the case and not just jump on my wagon at this point.

this is pretty much a pile of nothing as poe always is.

-----------

I still find vons choice of neighborhood with their portrayed theories in response to why, contradictory in its core element and find their aureal read/mention scummiest thing that is in game, they are my top scum and currently I'm 98% sure they will flip red still.

But sunflower was really hedgy there with their stance taking on this duel and I called it out/it reflected my read on them, and even made me hesitant on my catgirl read initially back then. so if anything ravens unvote on them felt fine to me.

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

this is self-destructive behavior if wolf.
They need sunflower to vote with them on Kyoko. Why would they tell this to Sunflower? It simply just does not make sense.

i think black would probably know that her suspecting me isn't going to make me any more likely to vote her

which makes it a relatively safe place for her to look for a partner, which was like a task assigned to her that she's supposed to be completing, compared to any of actiondan/ydra/enchant. there's also ravens as an option but suspecting them likely locks in their vote, and pushing us instead of them actually made them back off a bit. plus if von payne is scum one of those may be their partner anyway

this was a line of thought that i was pondering when i first read her push. i think it's plausible but not like especially likely. i do think it's pretty reasonable that she would suspect me here as town

kyoko response to it in 2458 does feel pretty bad to me though. i would expect her to be considering similar lines of thought to what i had about where scum!black would politically want to look for a second scum, and the light encouragement of it is weird

I encourage the line of thoughts.

You were publicly pushing me all day, and your push and vote on raven there felt more like a performance hunt than scum hunt. I didnt understand how would a town mindset as you would portray to have there, would react to raven's vote on von going with me, find ravens vote on von forced in that context, and then go hunt raven for something in day 2 that was extremly minimal and not scummy. It
felt like a made up push for something more calculated to me, which is why I was dialing down on my catgirl read to try and make sense of it in someway and It was why I dropped you in my reads few pages ago.

You find me saying I like the line of push towny, scummy, cause its done by my top scum read?

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

all in all,

I still think von will flip red, and the other scum is in catgirl sunflower right now.

I think von is really capable of making this push to distance their partner as they are getting incriminated very soon when this duel goes down

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

viewtopic.php?t=90686

link to game

like

this was exactly why I was thinking you brute forcing your point of view in game is more likely coming from scum you.

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

That is a fair point about different heads of your hydra, however some of the raven comments were done by you?

I dont want to get out of it never wanted to

even if by 2% I was wrong and its a tvt its something we need to solve no matter what before mylo lylo.

you think me fidning your slots push on raven here hedgy in agreement with von, lacking cause i scumread von or cause a town me shouldnt find it hedgy? I called it out way before von did. Von mentioning the same thing felt wierdly annoying to me cause I am still wrestling with the thoughts about if it will effect their scumminess value in my head or not, but that has nothing to do with me finding you guys stance on raven there and this duel extremly benched and off putting.

Also this is very counter productive for a scum me who want more votes on von. you say I want to change direction from von, when I was begging people to only vote in the pool between me and von like 2 billion times. How does that make any sense to you as an evaluation of my stance on the matter?

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

I might want to see a Drew scum game to understand the extent of his capabilities.

After playing This game with wolf!Drew, whenever I've been able to identify Drew as town, it has been extremely quickly. It's just very easy to tell if Drew is apart of a wolf team or not.

one thing else

You were the scum with drew there yourself

why even mention that game when you talking about identifying them as town/scum? That scum game was done super forced on town by you and drew. You guys were in sync so much and town didnt see through shit.

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

you saying you meant to link the demon slayer game instead of what you linked, Im asking that about that game

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

viewtopic.php?t=90686

link to game

like

this was exactly why I was thinking you brute forcing your point of view in game is more likely coming from scum you.

ok
i brute force things because on this website it just so happens to be that whatever I point at dies in most situations.
I brute force things as both alignments
your point?

that this felt like how you played the demon slayer game and lived through ten different ways of getting guiltied, just easier cause no actual guilties here.

that it felt like same dynamic between you and drew that you guys showed there.

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

all in all,

I still think von will flip red, and the other scum is in catgirl sunflower right now.

I think von is really capable of making this push to distance their partner as they are getting incriminated very soon when this duel goes down

you like their push one second next beat you're saying its distancing

Yeah that is me evaluating things. cause I am town

I still think sunflowers benching on the duel and way they went on raven regardless of the head that did it was off putting. I still scum read von for many other reasons. They have to flip red for this game to make any sense and they will.

and I think its way more likely for the scum team to be just you and von. sunflower being pushed by von for that might have been counter productive as you say in first glance for their position in duel but it was "evaluative" and helps them not get limed here in this duel if nothing else.

I am here exhusted, in need to see some flips to know i was right. trying to make sense of some partnerships, praying I was right. I have been struggling with so many dark thoughts, like how getting myself modkilled right now might be best move mechanically as we have even numbers of players and that soilves the duel like dayvig kill and we can solve the rest of game. But no I wont do any dirty shit. I will wait till people who need to, to get online and to do their job and for a flip to happen.

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

My issue with your brute force isnt the "charismatic push" you do to get your points accross that you naturally do as town as well

my issue is that you didnt earn the scum read on me and went pushing it, and that your read on von, that you deeply claim you have, and your evluations on other slots and game state seems incredibly shallow for you to be doing this brute force, instead of being more in bench and letting other things to transpire for you to make a read on. The way you spear headed the push on me when aureal went down without a single time reading anything aureal related in game to hunt for their partners feels unnatural to me.

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

Modkills on town always end day, explicically to prevent townies from abusing it.


That's forgetting about being turned in Survivor and losing game outright.

well the second would have been ok with me. the first is not always the case.

and Im not gonna do it. It was just something I had in back of my head. I just told that cause it was a random "dark" thought that I had. i said that to explain how frustrated and anxious I am with game state, waiting to see the flips.

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

i also dont wanna get banned on ms. this game doesnt matter that much to me.

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

You were publicly pushing me all day, and your push and vote on raven there felt more like a performance hunt than scum hunt.

the vote came from me not fire lol

What was your take on our 1v1 and why fire didnt wanna commit to a vote on me?

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

ali's posts scream to me "I know you're town and anxious for real" and yet he pushes me with so certainty painting my every move as a scum me doing theater. It makes no sense if he is town.

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

There isnt much more time left on this day phase. please take some time and come to your conclusions guys

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

I probably wont be around much tomorrow if at all. So i wanted to say im sorry that i dropped a nuke of my mental state in game this day phase. While im still certain of my reads this game didnt deserve this attidue from me.

I wish the best for all of you and good luck town if i wasnt here post twilight.

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

Please get von and catgirl after im gone. Please

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

Well i am town and this is von and catgirls scum game

Dont get fooled by all this if kyo flip red posts. Both these slots knew with 100% certainty im flipping green. There was 0% suspicious of me veing red by von in his entire hunt. And catgirl is just scum. Dont let go of von aureals call night 1 or the fact his theory post was a scum slip.

Good luck town

Happy easter

And sorry i didnt use my third invention and second invention went to waste to prism. Should have chose someone else

Sorry for self hammer but this needs to resolve in this day phase so we have any chance of win. I truely trust you all to come to this conclusion and actually ecaluating things as you should about these two slots.

VOTE: Kyoko

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

This is literally the first time in a decade that I really got to just enjoy the game without caring so much about the result.

I never really -mind- losing in the sense that I always tried my best, learned from the errors, and accepted when I wasn't good enough. This one was different in that I really wasn't that invested in winning and was just along for the ride. I tried things out but didn't try to move mountains. It was really nice.

I also don't care about losing. win or lose this game was the same for me. but I disagree on everything else. This was so painful to play or watch. when I got flipped mod said the nightmare ended for kyoko and it was literally the case

a true reminder to why I don't play this game and prefer modding

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

I also want to apologize if I was rude in any case to anyone or harsh to deal with. Thanks for the game

Also want to thank the mods again for the design. Looked really design-heavy and I'm all for it. Absolutely loved the effort that was put in the flavors and mechanical aspects of the game.