Mini 696 ~ Scum o' the Sea ~ Game Over

[Xtoxm]

Mili, I wish you had waited for Goat before claiming that...If he scum he now has all the info he needs to fake...

[militant]

Mili, I wish you had waited for Goat before claiming that...If he scum he now has all the info he needs to fake...

Well I will only get better with experiance

[Goatrevolt]

You gotta be kidding me. I had a post typed up and accidentally closed out of the freaking tab. This post was monstrous in length. Grr...

Well, I was planning on claiming today anyway.

I'm the helmsman. I have a 1 shot ability where I can steer the ship into a squall and prevent any night abilities from being used that night. I used this ability last night for many different reasons, which I can elaborate on if needed.

But yes, I was blocked, and my 1 shot was used up.

I see Clockwork is also claiming to be blocked. I'm guessing his block was the result of the mafia. My block was obviously the result of Militant. The lack of a night kill I'm going to attribute to the scum trying to kill me last night.

Basically, there are two possibilities. Either I'm lying and tried to make a kill last night that was blocked by Militant, or I'm telling the truth and was the target of an attempted kill.

I think if you're willing to take the time and examine the situation, it's quite obvious which one is true. I didn't want to mass claim because I didn't want to expose my role. The role I have is extremely powerful, but is only 1 shot. It is so much more useful if it remained unclaimed. By claiming my role I give the scum perfect opportunities to roleblock me, or play around my ability. I mean, just consider last night. If you assume for a second that I'm telling the truth, then the scum would have roleblocked Clockwork and shot me. But hey, my ability would have been used, preventing the kill attempt on myself. Can you imagine the confusion that would have created for the scum? So much useful information would have been generated from nothing more than how people reacted to last night.

In addition, I think I set myself up to be the Night Kill for last night, which was going to be fine, since I had the trump card up my sleeve. I claimed to have a power role, but refused to claim it based on the idea that it was more powerful unclaimed. I was also strongly opposed to a mass claim. I have no idea what the scum thought I was, but it obviously was something they didn't want around.

I think if you're willing to take the time to read through my posts this game you will see that I'm telling the truth here. And to be honest, I think that we are in complete control of this game. I had a whole huge other bit typed up going through each player and my thoughts on them, but that got lost. I'll retype it up later.

[Huntress]

As we seem to be going ahead with the mass claim I'll add mine.

I am a common sailor with no special abilities and I carry a marline spike. This was why I immediately dropped my suspicion of Gremwell when he claimed, because, apart from the fact that he didn't use the word 'common', the rest of his claim was like mine. It's also why I didn't like Crywolf's rejection of his claim and Clockwork's quick hammer.

I'm going to be very short of time over the next few days. I'll try to get some posts in if I can but no guarantees. I'm still waiting for answers from Springlullaby but I think she's away until the new year.

[Goatrevolt]

Ok, so here's a rundown of what we have left:

Militant

- His claim fits perfectly with his play. He alluded to having a pro-town power role and he does. For the record, I had him on my town list yesterday simply because he stated on a few occasions that he wanted to mass claim because he had a pro-town role that would clear him. The way he went about that seemed very townie.

Verdict- Town

Clockwork Ruse

- I have some skepticism over him being roleblocked two nights in a row by different roleblockers. It's something I want to look into. Besides that, I think his claim and the way he went about it was fairly pro-town. For now I'm fine with signing off on him.

Verdict - Probably town

.

Crywolf

- She calls out Gremwell on the basis of his vanilla claim not matching the flavor on hers. Quite frankly, I don't see scum pulling a move like this. If she's scum, then she'd have to be making a bold-faced lie. What scum make a bold-faced lie to get someone lynched who is already going to be lynched? It doesn't really make sense.

Verdict - Town

Huntress

- I think her claim is fine. I think her play has been very pro-town throughout.

Verdict - Town

Xtoxm

. His role claim is alignment-neutral. The way he went about making it strikes me as pro-town though. I didn't like his call to hammer me without bothering to hear a claim out of me. On the other hand, he didn't need to give us an extension as scum. I'm not entirely sold here, but for now I'm inclined to write him off as town

Veridct - Probably town

Erratus Apathos

- Pushed for a mass claim yesterday, but had weak logic to back up why he was in support of it. That's not the type of play I expect from EA. Pushed me as scum for a legitimate reason, but then added on additional reasoning that was weak or meaningless. He was trying to make his case into more than it really was, and I find that suspect. Based on process of elimination and his play, I really think he is mafia.

Verdict - Scum

.

Springlullaby

- Has constantly avoided answering any of my questions. Her excuse was that they don't amount to enough to build a case on her. Seriously? I'm glad she can make that judgment. She then votes me without any underlying case. Her hypocrisy and constant dodging of questions leads me to believe she is scum.

Verdict - Scum

.

---------------

I really only have 2 scum suspects, Springlullaby and Erratus Apathos. Xtoxm I can see as a possibility, but not something I'm interested in pushing quite yet. Clockwork I want to look into as well, but I'm not interested in pursuing him quite yet. I think there is solid evidence to believe that everyone else is town, which is why I think we're in complete control of this game.

I'm guessing Erratus Apathos is the mafia leader, and Springlullaby is the Serial Killer, which fits based on their positions on mass claiming. If EA is the mafia leader and can recruit people, he wants to know what options he has, especially if he doesn't have a guaranteed recruit on officers. EA's inability to solidly defend his pro-mass claim stance sticks out to me.

I think our lynch today needs to be one of those two, and then we'll play it by ear after that.

[Ythill]

Pirate Fact

The word "pirate" conjures up romantic images of days gone by, but ship-to-ship piracy is still common today, costing shippers as much as sixteen billion dollars per year in losses. There were 263 documented pirate attacks in 2007. One of my former coworkers was boarded by pirates while touring Asia in 2002; she descibed them as well-armed but polite.

[ClockworkRuse]

Goat, were you told you were unsuccessful?

[Erratus Apathos]

Vote: Goatrevolt

I'm a tracker (boatswain). Goat targeted Jebus night 2.

Huntress targeted nobody last night, and I investigated her predecessor on the first night but did not get a result.

[ClockworkRuse]

Vote: Goatrevolt

I can confirm EA's role name and it doesn't seem to benefit scum to fake-claim tracker.

[Ythill]

I'll be checking V/LA notices and sending out prods later today. And I'll post a vote count.

[Huntress]

I'm the helmsman. I have a 1 shot ability where I can steer the ship into a squall and prevent any night abilities from being used that night. I used this ability last night for many different reasons, which I can elaborate on if needed.

The claim fits the theme but raises a few questions:

But yes, I was blocked, and my 1 shot was used up.

How do you know you were blocked last night?

I see Clockwork is also claiming to be blocked. I'm guessing his block was the result of the mafia. My block was obviously the result of Militant. The lack of a night kill I'm going to attribute to the scum trying to kill me last night.

Basically, there are two possibilities. Either I'm lying and tried to make a kill last night that was blocked by Militant, or I'm telling the truth and was the target of an attempted kill.

Wouldn't a global block supercede an individual block? Why do you think it was Militant and not you that stopped the kill or kills last night? If it was you then that would account for the block on Clockwork too. Your assumption that you would have been the target of any kills also seems a bit odd.

I think if you're willing to take the time and examine the situation, it's quite obvious which one is true. I didn't want to mass claim because I didn't want to expose my role. The role I have is extremely powerful, but is only 1 shot. It is so much more useful if it remained unclaimed. By claiming my role I give the scum perfect opportunities to roleblock me, or play around my ability. I mean, just consider last night. If you assume for a second that I'm telling the truth, then the scum would have roleblocked Clockwork and shot me. But hey, my ability would have been used, preventing the kill attempt on myself. Can you imagine the confusion that would have created for the scum? So much useful information would have been generated from nothing more than how people reacted to last night.

In addition, I think I set myself up to be the Night Kill for last night, which was going to be fine, since I had the trump card up my sleeve. I claimed to have a power role, but refused to claim it based on the idea that it was more powerful unclaimed. I was also strongly opposed to a mass claim. I have no idea what the scum thought I was, but it obviously was something they didn't want around.

I think if you're willing to take the time to read through my posts this game you will see that I'm telling the truth here.

Wouldn't it have made more sense for them to go for someone there was less chance of lynching? Or for someone who, in view of your soft claim, had less chance of being protected?

And to be honest, I think that we are in complete control of this game.

That begs the question, who do you mean by "we"?

(Sorry, just couldn't resist it!)

I'm a tracker (boatswain). Goat targeted Jebus night 2.

If he did, this would make him the Serial killer as his claim doesn't give any other reason for it.

it doesn't seem to benefit scum to fake-claim tracker.

Agreed, but I'm not entirely convinced in view of his past actions. I'll wait to hear what Goat has to say about it.


My chief suspect at the moment is Springlullaby for the reasons given earlier, and her failure to answer my questions and those that Goat raised.

Vote: Springlullaby

[Ythill]

Goatrevolt, Militant, and Xtoxm have been prodded.

The Tally

2 ~ Goatrevolt (Erratus Apothos, ClockworkRuse)
1 ~ Springlullaby (Huntress)

Not voting: Goatrevolt, Xtoxm, crywolf20084, springlullaby, militant

D4 Prods: Goatrevolt (1); Militant (1); Xtoxm (1).
Overall Prods: Huntress (1); springlullaby (1); militant (2); crywolf20084 (1).
Automatic deadline: Friday, January 9 at 14:00 MST (GMT-7).

[Xtoxm]

Guess that makes Goat SK. Just have to hope Cult haven't won.

Vote Goat

[ClockworkRuse]

Mod: Prods just went out, right?

[militant]

Mod: Prods just went out, right?

Yes they have.

Vote Goat

I will be on holiday from tommorow until wednesday but I think they have internet acsess but I'll see. I will be V/LA

[Ythill]

Mod: Prods just went out, right?

Correct. I sent them about five minutes before posting the notice here.

[Goatrevolt]

Goat, were you told you were unsuccessful?

Yes.

Vote: Goatrevolt

I'm a tracker (boatswain). Goat targeted Jebus night 2.

Huntress targeted nobody last night, and I investigated her predecessor on the first night but did not get a result.

Shenanigans.

Vote Erratus Apathos

Erratus is lying. Before you hammer me, take one second to consider the game. Does EA's play make sense from the perspective of him being a tracker? If he legitimately had a result on me killing Jebus, why the hell would he not claim it yesterday? Instead, he pushed a weak case on me, resulting in a no lynch. Is that pro-town in any sense of the word? Why would Erratus catch the Serial Killer as a tracker, AND THEN LET HIM LIVE?

He is obviously lying. Take a moment to objectively consider things a bit. His play makes no sense from the role that he claimed. This is the exact same thing that got Erratus killed as scum in the last game I played with him. He tried to claim a role, but it didn't make any sense based on his play throughout the game. That's exactly what he's doing again here.

Can any of you honestly say that you, as a tracker, would catch the Serial Killer and then do nothing about it? Unless that answer is yes (in which case I would ask that you re-examine your playstyle), then Erratus is obviously scum.

One thing I don't get is why he would throw himself away to lynch me, unless he is part of a scum group that wins from doing this. I think it is imperative that we lynch him today, because most assuredly he wouldn't pull a move like this unless he wins otherwise.

----

I'll answer other questions in a second. I just had to get this bit out first.

[Xtoxm]

Well I see where you're coming from, but I didn't really consider it because of CR backing him up...

Well i'll

Unvote

but i'm not sure I see a way EA can be scum.

[Goatrevolt]

Well I see where you're coming from, but I didn't really consider it because of CR backing him up...

Well i'll

Unvote

but i'm not sure I see a way EA can be scum.

CR is probably a scum buddy. Does it make any sense from a game design standpoint for officers to have an option to either accept or decline an offer to mutiny?

The only time I've ever seen recruitment in a game it has been designed in such a way that recruitment is successful on X, Y, Z and will fail on Q, E. I've never seen it in such a way that a choice is given.

I'm also skeptical of CR based on the idea of him getting roleblocked again. That is my main reason for expressing suspicion of his claim today. Has anyone else been roleblocked? The reason I'm skeptical is because his play makes complete sense from the perspective of him getting recruited. He gets recruited. Then the following night he mysteriously is roleblocked (from a roleblocker nobody has seen before), preventing his role from providing any pro-town help.

[Goatrevolt]

Well we don't really have time to massclaim today. We need to focus on today's lynch.

I'm still happy with Goat lynch but will change over to Huntress if necessary.

Unvote, Vote: Huntress

I haven't gone through everything yet, but these two posts alone from yesterday should be enough to prove that EA is lying.

Keep in mind this is from the perspective that he's a tracker who caught a serial killer. He first holds back from mass claiming because we ran out of time. That's mistake number 1. If he was telling the truth, he would either push to get a claim out of me, or claim himself to get a lynch yesterday on me.

Secondly, he has powerful evidence to believe that I'm the serial killer...and yet he's willing to swap over to vote Huntress if necessary? Because that makes sense...

[Goatrevolt]

How do you know you were blocked last night?

I was told by the mod. He informed me that I was blocked and that my 1 shot had been used up.

Wouldn't a global block supercede an individual block? Why do you think it was Militant and not you that stopped the kill or kills last night? If it was you then that would account for the block on Clockwork too. Your assumption that you would have been the target of any kills also seems a bit odd.

I know it wasn't me that stopped the kill and it wasn't me that blocked CR, because I was told by the mod that my action got blocked last night.

As for a global block superceding an individual block, that's purely up to the mod.

Wouldn't it have made more sense for them to go for someone there was less chance of lynching? Or for someone who, in view of your soft claim, had less chance of being protected?

For all purposes, the scum could have easily assumed I was the doc. I mean, I argued against Erratus on the idea that a doc should come out, and then said on multiple occasions that I was a pro-town role who didn't want to come out.

As for your other point, that they wouldn't want to kill someone who had a chance of being lynched, my argument is "what chance was there that I would be lynched if I had a confirmable town power role?" None, really.

That begs the question, who do you mean by "we"?

(Sorry, just couldn't resist it!)

. The town, obviously. I'm going to retract my statement about being in control, though, because Erratus' play only makes sense if he is part of a scum group that would win tonight after a mislynch.

Well i'll Unvote but i'm not sure I see a way EA can be scum.

Look back and see that he has to be lying about his tracker claim based on his play. Then realize that he would only lie like that if he was scum.

[Goatrevolt]

Here's a look at a couple more posts from yesterday.

Keep in mind, the point of view is that Erratus is pro-town and saw me target Jebus, who was scum and got shot. I'm going to show how that makes no sense.

Post 248

: Erratus pushes me as scum and votes for me. This is one of the first posts of the day before Clockwork claims.

If you were a pro-town tracker, and you tracked a player who targeted dead scum, wouldn't you assume they were the vigilante? If he's pro-town here, he has no indication that the mafia don't control a kill or that there is even a SK in the game.

Why would you come into the thread and immediately vote for someone you tracked performing the pro-town action of killing scum? That makes absolutely no sense. Erratus continues to push his case on me throughout the day, despite having tracked me shoot scum.

Post 310

: Actually, this post still comes before Clockwork's claim, which makes it less suspicious. This is the post where EA mentions he's willing to swap to Huntress. This post is less suspicious, however, it makes:

Post 325

: Much more suspicious. After Clockwork claims that the scum recruit and do not control a kill, then Erratus swaps his vote over to Huntress. Really? I mean he did track me targeting the dead Jebus right? Or was that just a lie he made up? Because honestly, after Clockwork claimed he should have been pushing hard for my lynch based on his alleged "role information" but instead he opted to move his vote to Huntress.

-----

EA didn't play at all yesterday in a way that makes sense based on the information town knew and the results he got from his role. The only logical assumption is that he's lying scum. He wouldn't have pushed me as scum immediately, because he would have assumed I was the vigilante, not scum. He sees me target scum who dies that night. With only 1 kill per night, he would not have been able to logically assume there was a serial killer. So what did he think I was? What scum role did he assume I was that I targeted another scum buddy, who still managed to die? Quite frankly, this makes no sense.

Finally, after Clockwork claims his role information, then EA's assumption should have immediately been that I was the Serial Killer. Instead, he unvotes me and votes Huntress, giving no indication whatsoever to how he feels about Clockwork's claim. Again, this doesn't make sense based on the role information EA was supposed to have.

--------

I also noticed some other interesting stuff while reading through yesterday's posts pertaining to Clockwork, and how he relates to EA. I'll point that out later on when I have time to compose it all. The point is that his actions don't make sense either. He came into the thread yesterday wanting EA to claim and pushing for mass claim. At the end of the day, he was very opposed to lynching EA, but didn't explain what had changed. Now today he reveals that EA was the person he had investigated to be an officer. So why was he pushing for EA to claim then in the first place? It doesn't make sense.

[ClockworkRuse]

Well I see where you're coming from, but I didn't really consider it because of CR backing him up...

Well i'll

Unvote

but i'm not sure I see a way EA can be scum.

CR is probably a scum buddy. Does it make any sense from a game design standpoint for officers to have an option to either accept or decline an offer to mutiny?

The only time I've ever seen recruitment in a game it has been designed in such a way that recruitment is successful on X, Y, Z and will fail on Q, E. I've never seen it in such a way that a choice is given.

I'm also skeptical of CR based on the idea of him getting roleblocked again. That is my main reason for expressing suspicion of his claim today. Has anyone else been roleblocked? The reason I'm skeptical is because his play makes complete sense from the perspective of him getting recruited. He gets recruited. Then the following night he mysteriously is roleblocked (from a roleblocker nobody has seen before), preventing his role from providing any pro-town help.

Well, firstly, you are trying to outguess the mod with this whole "Chances of there being a choice to being recruited = nil" little tangent you had. Oh, and if EA is the SK and I had been recruited, we wouldn't be buddies. At least it seems that way to me. It looks like we've got a cult and an SK.

Second, would it make sense for me to come out and tell the town that we have a cult if I was culted? What benefit would there be in that?

Third, I believed EA's claim for other reasons. But I do see where you are coming from in your last post. It's possible that EA was culted. The note I received says that the culted's roles and powers stay the same, their alignment just changes. So I can see where it would make sense that would happen.

Fourth,

Unvote

. I want to see EA's response to all of this.

EA, why did you sit on this investigation?

Goat, why are you so sure there isn't a RBer or something of the sort if everyone hasn't claimed yet? Chances could be good that the Cult has some form of RBer.

[Goatrevolt]

Well, firstly, you are trying to outguess the mod with this whole "Chances of there being a choice to being recruited = nil" little tangent you had. Oh, and if EA is the SK and I had been recruited, we wouldn't be buddies. At least it seems that way to me. It looks like we've got a cult and an SK.

I don't think EA is the SK. I think he's mafia. I can't think of any reason why a SK would throw themselves away like this with 8 players alive. I could see a cult who's on the brink of winning doing so, though.

Second, would it make sense for me to come out and tell the town that we have a cult if I was culted? What benefit would there be in that?

I don't know the answer to that question. It's something I'm thinking about. I'll discuss this when I write up my thoughts on you.

Third, I believed EA's claim for other reasons. But I do see where you are coming from in your last post. It's possible that EA was culted. The note I received says that the culted's roles and powers stay the same, their alignment just changes. So I can see where it would make sense that would happen.

Which note? The one that recruited you?

I also want to hear your response to my suspicions from my previous post. Why would you push EA to claim if you had investigated him to be an officer? Later on in the day, you were strongly opposed to him being lynched, presumably because you knew he was an officer. So why push him as scum and want him to claim first?

Goat, why are you so sure there isn't a RBer or something of the sort if everyone hasn't claimed yet? Chances could be good that the Cult has some form of RBer.

It's certainly possible. The reason I questioned it is based on convenience (if you were recruited, it's convenient that you were roleblocked and could provide nothing to benefit town). Since nobody else so far has claimed to be roleblocked by this other roleblocker I find it suspicious. Also, I was skeptical simply because of the number of scum required to have that happen.

That reminds me that I need to review all the claims in order of when things happened to work everything out.

[ClockworkRuse]

The note that tried to recruit me. I am still town.

I needed to see what he would claim. At the time, I was hoping to see if I could catch him in a lie.

And Goat, the note I received says that if you choose to be culted you keep your power.


I think we are missing some claims, aren't we?