Open 908: Aureal Is Hoarding All The Game Names | Game Over

[Klick]

VOTE: Political Clout

Baaaa

[Klick]

I am offended
I'm sure PC and I will last at least 48 hours

[Klick]

VOTE: Bingle

[Klick]

I kind of don't like that vote

y

[Klick]

VOTE: ceejayvinoya

[Klick]

VOTE: ceejayvinoya

I thought we had something special, but you’re just dumping me like yesterday’s Trash God.

What in the world is a Trash God

[Klick]

Political Clout
Dannflor

the worst
Not_Mafia
implosion
Black

Bingle

ceejayvinoya

[Klick]

Bingle do you have an opinion on Dann

[Klick]

I think Dann on some level believes everything he has posted so far

[Klick]

In contrast with last game when everything felt narrative-based and specifically driven towards some goal

[Klick]

did you review my first 10 posts from that game to make that comparison

No
But I have now and agree with my assessment even more

[Klick]

I can definitely see where thread seeming-consensus is coming from atm; I can jive with PC town and also worst town to some degree and also with Black being sketchy, but i'm not gonna go as far as scummy right now

What has given you the impression that worst is a consensus townread

[Klick]

Bloop

[Klick]

[Klick]

What is a better approach for solving for Bingle?

Atm I'm leaning town but my memory of Bingle's scum range is that it's very very wide

[Klick]

I somewhat agree
I felt meh about doing it at the time but wasn't sure what else to do and wanted to do something productive
And then ceejay came up and made himself a much better option

[Klick]

VOTE: Klick

I kind of don't like that vote

also aside from a maybe Black town am not getting much out of this yet

This wasn't 'why did you vote Bingle', or 'I don't understand Klick's Bingle vote', but 'VOTE: Klick, I kind of don't like that vote'

Then he follows it up with this

I kind of don't like that vote

y

need more y bingle bad

If he was town and this was all he had to say then I would have expected that to be posted in the first place
I think ceejay was forcing out an opinion because he's scum and wanted to take a stance
Instead of being curious town seeing an odd vote and having legitimate thoughts on it

[Klick]

VOTE: Klick

I kind of don't like that vote

also aside from a maybe Black town am not getting much out of this yet

This wasn't 'why did you vote Bingle', or 'I don't understand Klick's Bingle vote', but 'VOTE: Klick, I kind of don't like that vote'

Then he follows it up with this

I kind of don't like that vote

y

need more y bingle bad

If he was town and this was all he had to say then I would have expected that to be posted in the first place
I think ceejay was forcing out an opinion because he's scum and wanted to take a stance
Instead of being curious town seeing an odd vote and having legitimate thoughts on it

do you really believe this?

yes

[Klick]

Black is there anything you like about ceejay besides him taking issue with my scumread on him

[Klick]

Klick I think your read is super nuanced and detailed and it feels a little unnatural

this right here is a very big reason why my standard approach is to be esoteric and obtuse with my actual thoughts

[Klick]

Klick I think your read is super nuanced and detailed and it feels a little unnatural

this right here is a very big reason why my standard approach is to be esoteric and obtuse with my actual thoughts

Are you switching your approach up to try and get townread?

That seems counterintuitive

[Klick]

I'm being more overt about my reasons for scumreading ceejay because I feel more confident than usual that he's actually scum based off them

[Klick]

I rarely have scumreads at all but I'm feeling spicy

[Klick]

I think I might be riding the high from last game somewhat but I also don't think ceejay has done anything to show me an 'air of honesty' like you're saying he has

[Klick]

I feel sad
Not ideal mafia conditions but I'm here regardless

[Klick]

I also don't think I'd really assume that of Bingle fwiw

[Klick]

<3

[Klick]

I keep feeling vaguely positive about individual worst posts but then feeling uncomfortable saying that they couldn't be posting them as scum

[Klick]

I lean towny but with an undercurrent of suspicion

lol

[Klick]

Got ninja'd there. Mind linking the game?

I'm interested in hearing any thoughts you have regarding Dann following reading said game.

[Klick]

You've just reminded me that dumplings exist and now I'm craving chicken and dumplings

[Klick]

I essentially agree with the above

[Klick]

Klick do you have any thoughts about your short-lived wagon?

Not particularly
Your vote is the interesting one

I think I buy your reasoning as something you would think as town
Although I'm quite confused by your conception of like, how I play? Do you think my reads don't normally have nuance?

[Klick]

Specs loved calling me scum in Champs Semis, and this is like the Champs Semis of MS or something

[Klick]

Hi Aureal!!!

[Klick]

Klick do you have any thoughts about your short-lived wagon?

Not particularly
Your vote is the interesting one

I think I buy your reasoning as something you would think as town
Although I'm quite confused by your conception of like, how I play? Do you think my reads don't normally have nuance?

I think it's the combination of nuance + conviction + page 3 that feels scummy to me. Tbh I'm not super familiar with your meta tells to know if this combination is normal for you

It's 5am so I'm not going to search for them, but it's fairly common for me to be confident in reads early on
The difference is that usually they're townreads
I can remember two games off the top of my head that I had an early confident scumread in

On a more general level, I think ideas in Mafia are either accurate or inaccurate
I think this one is the former

[Klick]

VOTE: Klick

I kind of don't like that vote

also aside from a maybe Black town am not getting much out of this yet

I kind of don't like that vote

y

need more y bingle bad

VOTE: Klick

I just

really

don't see this sequence coming from town whose main issue with me is that they are looking for more out of my vote

[Klick]

Goodnight

[Klick]

What kind of experience do you have with ceejay duck
Is he typically quite polarised?

[Klick]

I'm looking forward to the telling Not_Mafia reactions and Not_Mafia case from this exciting Not_Mafia wagon

[Klick]

...hard disagree?
I don't understand how you reach that conclusion

[Klick]

Unless you think your NM vote is doing a lot more than it is

[Klick]

I think there's at least one scum and probably two in [nm, implo, cjv] and maybe that's in reverse order? I'm also probably like, incorrect, because this game has a number of skilled scum players in it

I find it kind of astonishing that you'd write this sentence honestly. Like the hedging sure but like there's absolutely no way you actually have any confidence that is anywhere significantly above random in that proposition. Do you just say random shit as town? Do you genuinely think that the lurkers in this game are significantly >rand to be scum? Because I at least have seen very little from the thread as a whole that makes me feel like it's lots of townies waiting for the lurker scum to show up (granted I have access to the info that I'm town but still)

I struggle with this. It feels like a natural conclusion for 'scum is probably concentrated in the lurkers' to follow from 'I have townreads on several active players'

[Klick]

tbf the entire basis of the deepwolf meme is that dann's scumrange is quite hard to define and I'd argue he relatively rarely leaves it especially on day one

I don't think someone needs to leave their scumrange to be leaned town on and I think black is the only person I've seen who is like, outright hard townreading dann atm

something something paranoia something

I moderately townread Dann
I think Dann has definable goals as scum, it's just at a level deeper than most are willing to go

If Dann is scum then I think he's actually limiting himself in this game by mostly expressing things that look like direct opinions

[Klick]

implosion/ceejay feels unfortunately likely

Yeah that sounds about right

[Klick]

if I'm a wolf I ain't that deep I'm moreso referring to his core trait this game being refusal to accept any form of status quo

This is exactly how I would describe his play in our last game together, where he was scum and both him and his partner were locked out fairly early

[Klick]

I feel like I'm playing off duck a lot
I can't really tell what this means but it feels significant

[Klick]

Political Clout
Dannflor

the worst
Not_Mafia
implosion
Black

Bingle

ceejayvinoya

I don't think my reads are very meaningfully different from this atm; implosion has moved down to leaning scum, Bingle is leaning town, if the scumteam isn't {ceejay, implosion} then I think {N_M, Black, duck} are the most reasonable holes in my reads atm

[Klick]

I feel quite weird about Dann's streak of posts on Page 19 and I can't work out why

[Klick]

I'll be in an airport in a week, does that count?

[Klick]

VOTE: implosion

[Klick]

@ceejay
What are your two strongest reads, right this second?

PEdit: that's quite scary

[Klick]

The only thing I actually feel quite confident in atm is PC!town

[Klick]

His last couple of posts feel pure to me gth
I'd rather see more before going into much detail

[Klick]

I'm surprised at the pace at which he's working through this game (I guess this has gotten better but only after it was called out, and this game is a bit slow paced in general) and I think his read on me felt very forced

I've mentioned like multiple times that I'm wary this is pretty introspective and would love someone else with a different opinion to talk through it

You've asked for different opinions but I generally agree with what you're saying

More specifically, I feel like implosion's engagement and content has lined up with what he feels he needs to do to survive
Implosion has explained this as him feeling motivated by pressure, but I'm unconvinced that that isn't cover for posting in a conveniently-survivalistic way based on the flow of the thread
It feels very similar to the Coalition game we played from what I can remember, and on my agenda when I'm not busy with Easter stuff today is to go back and properly compare his play there to what I'm feeling here

[Klick]

I don't really dispute any of that but it feels like a tangent to the main thing I'm concerned about which is that you're using your playstyle (which I do definitely believe is influenced by several factors) as a survival method here in a way that's scum-indicative

I think what you're doing lines up surprisingly well with what you need to do
And that matches how I believe you operate as scum, based on observation and also based on what you've said about your own scum game

[Klick]

Klick, have you seen enough more from ceejay at this point to want to go more in depth?

No

[Klick]

Pretty decently from my understanding

What do you think are the noticeable differences between your town and scum games?

[Klick]

Been a rough day, tomorrow's going to be busier.

tl;dr regarding ceejay: I'm confused as to what he's accomplishing atm if he's scum
His last series of posts does him no favors in terms of survivability in the current gamestate
But I can also relate with the general vibe of 'there's a big blob of people in this game that I don't have a very good read on'
It feels similar to where my mind is at currently

I'm also quite concerned that the thread as a whole bar Black is basically fine with ceejay going over

[Klick]

I want to reevaluate under the assumption that ceejay is town and see what that implies about the attitudes towards his wagon
I've really not got the energy for it atm though

[Klick]

Feeling ill
Ceejay lim is fine

Intent to hammer, claim pls

[Klick]

VOTE: ceejay

Guess I’d prefer the bigger wagon but I feel pretty confident in my black read and I’d appreciate if some people would engage that

I don't think this feels like the way Dann votes a buddy in a game like this

[Klick]

I still don't think PC is scum at all really?

My best way of describing why is that it seems like PC has been sort of in their own little world, solving things that they think matters. I thought this was towny before a ceejay!scum flip, and I think it's particularly meaningful with ceejay being scum. I read PC's solving as detached from the gamestate, whereas if PC was scum with ceejay I feel like he would feel a need to influence things a fair bit more.

[Klick]

@Dann: have your thoughts on the worst changed at all?

[Klick]

VOTE: Black

[Klick]

I think you're trying to achieve scum things instead of town things

[Klick]

I don't think scum hammers their pr like that. I think black is clear.

What do you think Black!scum with ceejay-Role Cop

would

do in that EoD scenario?

[Klick]

696?

I think you're trying to achieve scum things instead of town things

I think you're seeing the things I'm seeing again,,

[Klick]

I still don't think PC is scum at all really?

My best way of describing why is that it seems like PC has been sort of in their own little world, solving things that they think matters. I thought this was towny before a ceejay!scum flip, and I think it's particularly meaningful with ceejay being scum. I read PC's solving as detached from the gamestate, whereas if PC was scum with ceejay I feel like he would feel a need to influence things a fair bit more.

does a similar argument not go for black? it's not like black was particularly influential especially in the back half of the day

It's two completely different contexts

I think Nlack stepping back during the end of yesterday is less meaningful than PC consistently reliably being detached from the central narrative

I also think that Black and PC are two different players that would prioritise different things

In a world where Black is scum here I think she tried to do stuff and then ceejay made it impossible for her to do stuff and so she didn't do stuff and instead played self-pres

I think PC has been doing PC things since before ceejay was fated to be the elim yesterday

[Klick]

I think PC wants to create their own narrative and I think they're doing it because they want their own reads

I think Black wants to create her own narrative and I think she could be doing it for more sus reasons related to self-promotion

[Klick]

I have slightly drunk

[Klick]

'Stuff' as in Stuff that would advance the scum agenda

[Klick]

I want worst to be town
I feel like if {Klick, Dann, PC, worst} are all town and can all find each other then we win

But every time I look at duck's ISO I'm unconvinced that they couldn't just be scum
When I read back for a bit this morning I didn't think ceejay/duck interactions were that great for duck

I was hoping you were more particularly confident on them so I could just trust you on it but tbh I think worst/ceejay is a plausible answer

[Klick]

Why would I not let ceejay claim or be replaced before I hammered him? Do you think that was my best move? Because I don't think it's anywhere close

I don't think it's unreasonable?
I'm a sucker for 'I would never do this' but I don't see the logic here

[Klick]

I don't see the logic in me hammering ceejay when he was being prodded. I would have waited for him to either pop in and fake claim and then unvoted or I would have waited for a replacement to do the same. The hammer doesn't clear me so it's just such an awful move as scum and I typically don't make too many of those

I'll think about this more when my head is clearwe

[Klick]

UNVOTE:

[Klick]

Oh, worth noting

V/LA for 9 days

I'll be travelling back home. I will stoll have access, just not focusing as much on this. Shouldn't be terribly disruptive compared to my current routine.

[Klick]

I'm in Texas y'all

[Klick]

Getting awful vibes from the worst here. Feels like he's trying to buddy up to Dann while simultaneously being very amicable with me. Part of me feels like he knows I'm town

*shrug* I'm nice. I don't townread you in this game and I have some questions about your play. Those two things are often a problem because it means I'm unlikely to be reading you without bias. It also doesn't mean you're evil irl so why should I not be amicable with you?

Realistically I'm baffled as to what your alignment is I'm just fairly short on POE and needing to do more homework.

This is a very relatable take and applies to both Black and yourself for me

I feel meh about NM and implosion as well but I think that's less about lack of confidence in how they play, and more about them being genuinely difficult to read

[Klick]

I thiiiink the worst is town? Ugh

[Klick]

If the worst is scum then there's this weird attempt to repeatedly pocket me with similar takes and get on my level. It would have to be very intentional. Whether the worst is vapable of this kind of play as scum or not should be the sort of thing I can find from looking through a few scum games.

[Klick]

*capable. I don't think I can vape a duck

[Klick]

On the other hand I think I do believe that this kind of buddying-esque play would come from worst!town because duck is just that swell

[Klick]

I'm not CCing PC

I think duck's take of 'PC's just caught scum claiming PR' is kind of silly and I lean towards him not doing it as scum

I think I want to vote in {NM, implosion} today.

[Klick]

Okay Not_Mafia can live

[Klick]

i think not assuming PC is town is silly lol.

I feel meh about NM and implosion as well but I think that's less about lack of confidence in how they play, and more about them being genuinely difficult to read

I feel sympathetic toward this but on the flip side, I don't think it's like duck or black or dannflor are exactly not genuinely difficult to read.

It's the difference between 'this person is quite good at scum and making a read will be tricky' vs 'I can't reliably see the difference between their town play and their scum play'

Idk. I want to find you if you're town but I really struggle to see much of anything you've done as outside of what you'd be wanting to do as scum.

[Klick]

In contrast with Dann who I actually think seems visibly town for reasons I have already at least partially expressed

[Klick]

PC is my natural next push. I like Klick's towncase on PC. I think my reaction to it is more like "maybe" than "yes" and stuff tho. I don't feel like I like his associatives with cjv all that much but no huge red flags.

Wonder if PC's very individualist narrative is him doing his own thing & solving the game or whether it's him missing what we're all seeing.

I'm kind of annoyed by worst's progression on PC going from 'I like Klick's case but think it's wrong' to the level of confidence they express in PC!scum after this point.

[Klick]

Boop

[Klick]

i don’t think the worst makes the case PC can still be scum after his claim if he is scum

that’s the type of brainfart conspiracy that comes from an outrageous townie

Didn't you just say the opposite of this to me though

[Klick]

I think duck's take of 'PC's just caught scum claiming PR' is kind of silly and I lean towards him not doing it as scum

I kind of think the opposite

[Klick]

We might actually want to have a conversation about whether or not we just yeet NM at some point.

I'm going to explain something Black hasn't noticed so Black please don't click on this.

Spoiler: no black

there are two loud voices in my brain, one saying Black is town and one saying Black is scum. I still like most of my townreads and I'm still not really committed to my POE. like if it's not Black who is it??

I felt so right on townplosion I don't want to start considering him seriously. I think NM's ceejay associatives are more clearing than Black's but potentially not clearing-clearing. We've probably had all the content we're gonna get from him this game. Are we going to kick ourselves at some point if he's alive for a long time?

Play a game for me worst

Look at NM's interactions with ceejay in isolation from the rest of the game

What is your actual opinion on them? Are they NM!town interacting with scum? Are they two buddies? Or is it indeterminate on any meaningful level?

Either it is sufficient to consider NM as town off his ceejay approach or it isn't. Right now my answer is that it isn't very meaningful to me one way or another. I don't really vibe with the take that NM's approach makes him *kinda maybe town*. And I also agree with you that I don't really feel comfortable just kind of letting NM slide by without more solid conclusions irt alignment.

[Klick]

I have a horrible brain fog. It feels like I'm like disassociating or something. I can keep a train of thought on like logical stuff but nothing is coming together properly.

[Klick]

I am reading your worst analysis with interest Black but am not in a place to evaluate it in a satisfying way
Keep doing what you're doing and I'll engage later

[Klick]

I'd like a proper response from duck to 955 before either of these wagons are hammered.

PEdit: oh hello

[Klick]

I find it hard to relate but I know you're far from the only player who operates like this

Can I get like, a reads list from you? Even if it's just like a right now vibe thing. What does the worst's mind map of this game look like right now

[Klick]

promise you'll sheep me in f3?
hypothetically speaking of course

VOTE: the worst

I really don't like this vote

[Klick]

Going to look at duck's meta this afternoon and then probably put a vote down

[Klick]

I've gone and looked through a few duck games but I feel like I haven't gotten much of use out of them

I feel like the biggest difference between tw-town and tw-scum is a level of comfort and enjoyment that I've only seen from them as town. I think the worst is relaxing and enjoying this game at a level that's similar to their town play
But I think that's hard to really rely on, because 1) the worst has already talked about how they've been enjoying Mafia more on the whole lately since their return, and 2) this is a particularly enjoyable game/playerlist to the point that even if they're scum, I could see them having this level of fun anyway

Outside of that, nothing that the worst has posted in this game feels outside the level of engagement he's capable of as scum.

[Klick]

Dann
One town in {Black, implosion, the worst, Not_Mafia}
Who do you pick

[Klick]

That's basically what I'm saying?

Outside of that context, would you say you enjoy playing town or scum more

[Klick]

That's the problem

Your 1023 sums up my thoughts irt Not_Mafia rather well
I don't have a confident answer for a townread outside of you/PC. But I don't feel like I'll arrive at a confident answer on Not_Mafia either way, whereas I could see myself at least coming to some sort of understanding about any of the other three

[Klick]

I think implosion is still the player I have a semi-decent gut feeling about actually flipping *scum*, as opposed to just feeling unsure about the others

[Klick]

I think it's inevitable that I'm faded here with PC sheeping Dann and NM being in the game. I wish I had a more confident solve on my way out but that kinda just summarizes my experience this game

This doesn't match with what Dann's posts actually say
Do you have the impression that Dann is hard-stuck on voting you today?

There's discussion around voting implosion, NM, the worst
the worst was at E-1 literally at the top of the last page

This defeatism feels unnatural

[Klick]

VOTE: Black

[Klick]

I feel like your focus has been really palpably on how close you've been to elimination at several points today Black

I don't want you to have a bad time but I also don't feel very bad about testing this

Love and hugs, see you in the next one

[Klick]

What made you lose faith in that read or part of the read in the following pages? Or are you only realizing now with hindsight that it was a good read?

I have a lot to say about that line but I think I'm just overanalyzing it

I'd like to hear where your head is at generally

[Klick]

I'd appreciate an unvote from Dann or the worst

PEdit: lol yeah

[Klick]

Not you

I think wordt's E-1 vote is like... quite bad
I was hoping to have some time tonight to reread and chat it through
But apparently not!

[Klick]

Doing last dinner with my parents before I go home tomorrow. If thread is still open when the kids are in bed I can try to look through some stuff before it ends

[Klick]

I don't think I'd blame anyone for just quickvoting NM tomorrow fwiw

[Klick]

VOTE: Not_Mafia

[Klick]

Good game all

[Klick]

Dead thread was a good read haha

[Klick]

Dann freaked me out with the Page 3 accurate solve ngl. He was absolutely right for the correct reasons and there wasn't much I could do about it except pretend it never happened

[Klick]

I enjoyed this game but I think I'd have enjoyed it infinitely more if I got to be town with this list

Especially duck. Power town duo

[Klick]

Bloop

[Klick]

klick u played a very good scum game. didn't scumread u at all till seeing u were alive in final 3. like why the hell would scum take u to final 3

This was the problem I spent over a week trying to find a good answer to lol
I managed to convince myself that NM/worst might decide to leave me alive to create options for themselves if they were scum