Mini 696 ~ Scum o' the Sea ~ Game Over

Goatrevolt · Post Post #550 (ISO) » Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:29 pm

I don't think her play makes a whole lot of sense from a SK point of view. Why as a SK would you counterclaim someone who claimed vanilla town? My guess is that she believed she was a vanilla townie, which is plausible for a neutral survivor, but not so much for a SK.

Goatrevolt · Post Post #551 (ISO) » Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:33 pm

Xtoxm wrote:Oh, and with CR I used a One-Shot Protection I didn't tell you guys I had on him that night, and I highly suspect I prevented a kill from someone...

Started to regret doing it later...

So either CR or myself got shot at that night. Unfortunately, that information isn't as useful as I had hoped. I was hoping more for something along the lines of a kill attempt inexplicably failing on CR.

Xtoxm · Post Post #552 (ISO) » Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:35 pm

Yeh, I didn't think there was any point in revealing that part of my role, and I recall not doing it the day after because I wasn't worried it would make people find me more scummy (I was suspected at the time). But now, I think it's important to get that out.

Anyway that's all my cards on the table.

Goatrevolt · Post Post #553 (ISO) » Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:57 pm

Here's a possibility. I linked the wiki article to traitor in a previous post. We've seen or heard of nothing else regarding recruitment by the mafia besides what CR has said. An additional kill last night means the mafia do control a kill.

One of the traitor varieties is a "spy" or "devil" that has the ability to check player's roles, but the mafia doesn't know who he is. CR in his first post of the game FoSes both Jebus and EA, who turned out to be scum together. I think it's entirely plausible that CR is a mafia spy and was sending a bit of a hint to Jebus/EA who he was with that early FoS. Thoughts?

Goatrevolt · Post Post #554 (ISO) » Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:59 pm

So actually the mafia spy doesn't know who is in the mafia. If CR is a traitor, he fits the first definition more accurately.

Either way, I think this is worth considering.

Xtoxm · Post Post #555 (ISO) » Wed Jan 14, 2009 7:03 pm

Sigh I don't know. It's just adds another possibility, I tried to think of a way to rule it out but couldn't. This game has already confused the hell out fo me.

ClockworkRuse · Post Post #556 (ISO) » Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:25 am

Goatrevolt wrote:So actually the mafia spy doesn't know who is in the mafia. If CR is a traitor, he fits the first definition more accurately.

Either way, I think this is worth considering.

It's interesting theory, I'm thinking about how to defend myself against it.

First, how much of a hint would that be to the scum group if I was a traitor? "Hey! I'm suspicious of both of you!" wouldn't really be much of a hint as much as it would re reason for them to take me out.

Second, if it was a day start game and I didn't know ho the mafia was how would I be sending a message to the two scum?

Xtoxm is a sort of JOATs? And thank you for the protection, I suppose.

Why did you ask for the person to be killing with the poison to keep quiet? I assumed that the person with the poison is scum or SK.

Goat, my weapon is a Saber.

Xtoxm · Post Post #557 (ISO) » Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:49 am

I didn't. Past tense, they have kept quiet.

ClockworkRuse · Post Post #558 (ISO) » Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:46 pm

Ah, I'm sorry. I misread what you said then.

Huntress · Post Post #559 (ISO) » Thu Jan 15, 2009 3:07 pm

Goatrevolt wrote:It would explain why Huntress could make the claim that she couldn't possibly see me as cult but yet she could see me as SK.

That was because I didn't think EA's attack on you looked like bussing.

Xtoxm wrote:Oh, and with CR I used a One-Shot Protection I didn't tell you guys I had on him that night, and I highly suspect I prevented a kill from someone...

What makes you think a kill, if there was an attempt, was aimed at Clockwork rather than Goat?

And can I have a response to post 539 please?

Goatrevolt · Post Post #560 (ISO) » Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:54 pm

ClockworkRuse wrote:First, how much of a hint would that be to the scum group if I was a traitor? "Hey! I'm suspicious of both of you!" wouldn't really be much of a hint as much as it would re reason for them to take me out.

If the mafia know that there is a traitor, but not who they are, they would be looking for hints like that. I've actually seen it happen exactly like that before, where the mafia traitor random voted for all of his scum buddies in his first post.

ClockworkRuse wrote:Second, if it was a day start game and I didn't know ho the mafia was how would I be sending a message to the two scum?

Yeah, I was confusing about that. The premise is that you did know who they were.

Can you answer post 546 for me?

Goatrevolt · Post Post #561 (ISO) » Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:55 pm

Huntress wrote:
Goatrevolt wrote:It would explain why Huntress could make the claim that she couldn't possibly see me as cult but yet she could see me as SK.
That was because I didn't think EA's attack on you looked like bussing

Wait a sec, I seem to remember you saying this about me before EA was dead. Fishy, fishy. I'll have to look back and check.

Goatrevolt · Post Post #562 (ISO) » Thu Jan 15, 2009 7:36 pm

Huntress wrote:My rolename is "sailor" as stated in post 378. I assume the marline spike is just a bit of flavour, a tool of the trade (it's used for repairing rigging etc.).

Here is a post from Huntress from yesterday indicating that she was unaware of the implications of the Marlin Spike beyond simply flavor. This right here suggests that if she did kill with it, she claimed it completely oblivious of the implications of doing so.

Huntress wrote:I'm reasonably confident Goat isn't mafia/cult - or if he is then he's doing a very good job of it - but I see a strong possibility of him being the SK.

Found it. This is from yesterday. I want to know why you were convinced I wasn't cult, but thought I could be the SK. This was before EA's alignment was known...or did you already know? Hmmm?

Xtoxm · Post Post #563 (ISO) » Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:29 pm

Yeh that's the main reason I haven't voted Huntress...But not sure who to think as scum...

Goatrevolt · Post Post #564 (ISO) » Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:39 pm

Xtoxm wrote:Yeh that's the main reason I haven't voted Huntress...But not sure who to think as scum...

That bit I quoted implicates Huntress as scum, not the other way around. The argument against Huntress as scum is that she wouldn't have claimed the Marlin Spike if she knew it would cause her to get caught. What I just showed with that quote is that she was completely unaware of this happening because she thought the Marlin Spike was just flavor, and not actually meaningful to the game.

Goatrevolt · Post Post #565 (ISO) » Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:45 am

I'm pretty sure I have it all figured out.

Huntress is mafia: She claimed the Marlin Spike that was used to kill Crywolf last night. Huntress killed Crywolf because she thought Crywolf was the serial killer. Xtoxm, you and I were on Huntress based on the idea of Huntress being the serial killer. If she shoots the serial killer, then she removes that suspicion. This also fits with her claim today that Crywolf could have been the SK. She kills Crywolf, convinced the Crywolf is the SK, and then when Crywolf comes up indifferent, she makes the assumption that Crywolf actually was the SK.

If Huntress is mafia, then who is the SK? It's not me based on the logic I pointed out. It's not Clockwork based on militant roleblocking him, and I highly doubt it's Xtoxm, based on a lot of factors. Simply based on process of elimination it's obvious the SK is Springlullaby. This fits based on Jebus' death (Jebus was pressuring SL).

Huntress = Mafia. SL = SK

I think we should lynch Huntress today.

ClockworkRuse · Post Post #566 (ISO) » Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:04 am

Goatrevolt wrote:
ClockworkRuse wrote:Second; I basically wanted to check Goat's claim. Since EA turned up scum yesterday and I already knew for a fact that EA's role claim was true, I wanted to see if he was telling the truth about Goat. Being on the opposing scum group, I think EA would love to get rid of the SK as soon as possible.
How did you know EA's role claim (tracker) was true?

I knew he was an officer, and I am assuming that officers have power roles. I knew the name he claimed was correct and it fit the title, I looked up what his role name's job was on a ship.

So maybe it should say I'm fairly sure he told the truth about his role.

Xtoxm · Post Post #567 (ISO) » Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:36 pm

Who do you trust CR me or confirmed scum?

Huntress · Post Post #568 (ISO) » Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:43 pm

Goatrevolt wrote:
Huntress wrote:I'm reasonably confident Goat isn't mafia/cult - or if he is then he's doing a very good job of it - but I see a strong possibility of him being the SK.
Found it. This is from yesterday. I want to know why you were convinced I wasn't cult, but thought I could be the SK. This was before EA's alignment was known...or did you already know? Hmmm?

I wasn't convinced, just "reasonably confident", because I was seeing links between EA and Clockwork, both of whom I thought were scum, and I couldn't see you being linked with them, especially after EA's claim.

Goatrevolt wrote:That bit I quoted implicates Huntress as scum, not the other way around. The argument against Huntress as scum is that she wouldn't have claimed the Marlin Spike if she knew it would cause her to get caught. What I just showed with that quote is that she was completely unaware of this happening because she thought the Marlin Spike was just flavor, and not actually meaningful to the game.

I assumed it was just flavour because I don't have any ability so I couldn't see a use for it.

Huntress killed Crywolf because she thought Crywolf was the serial killer. <snip> She kills Crywolf, convinced the Crywolf is the SK, and then when Crywolf comes up indifferent, she makes the assumption that Crywolf actually was the SK.

Huh? Where did you get this idea? I thought

you

were the SK although with Xtoxm's evidence it now looks more likely that Springlullaby is. So why are you claiming that I was "convinced" CW was the SK? Yes, I did make the assumption that Crywolf was the SK after she turned up as neutral, but that was because it didn't occur to me that she could have been a survivor.

Huntress · Post Post #569 (ISO) » Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:50 pm

@ Xtoxm: In post 336, you said, "Both night kills were by the SK". Were you actually told this as well as being told they used poison?

ClockworkRuse · Post Post #570 (ISO) » Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:32 pm

Xtoxm wrote:Who do you trust CR me or confirmed scum?

I'm not too sure where this came from. XD

Before you even claimed your results, I had to make a decision on who to investigate. The way I saw it, I would get more information by investigating goat.

I already told everyone that the PM I got attempting to recruit me said that officers who are recruited kept their night powers, so instead of thinking that EA had just tried to get rid of Goat because he felt like it I felt that he could have found the SK and was going after him. Thus, I investigated him.

I wasn't also blocked last night. So shouldn't that mean someone else was?

Xtoxm, does your role PM tell you about any consequences about your one-shot save?

Xtoxm · Post Post #571 (ISO) » Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:00 pm

I specifically asked the mod, it would not have caused you to be blocked.

Scum could have RB, and with only 1 scum left can't kill and block.

Goatrevolt · Post Post #572 (ISO) » Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:48 pm

Huntress wrote:I wasn't convinced, just "reasonably confident", because I was seeing links between EA and Clockwork, both of whom I thought were scum, and I couldn't see you being linked with them, especially after EA's claim.

If you thought EA was scum, why did you hesitate to vote him yesterday? I mean, you spent the entire day completely avoiding the discussion between EA and myself, instead opting to keep your vote on Springlullaby (completely irrelevant when the lynch needed to be between EA and myself). Now you say you thought EA was scum? Your actions don't see to make sense here. Clearly, if you thought EA was scum as you claim, you would have been voting for him, which you did not. I think it's more like you knew EA was scum but wanted to sit things out and see how everything went down before making a move. I don't really see how a townie could act like this: "Well, yeah, I thought EA was scum, so I decided to avoid commenting on him at all, even though his claim was the focal point of the day. Instead I kept a useless vote on springlullaby!"

So yeah, Huntress is scum. Shall we proceed with the noose?

Huntress wrote:Huh? Where did you get this idea? I thought
you
were the SK although with Xtoxm's evidence it now looks more likely that Springlullaby is. So why are you claiming that I was "convinced" CW was the SK? Yes, I did make the assumption that Crywolf was the SK after she turned up as neutral, but that was because it didn't occur to me that she could have been a survivor.

I'm talking about today. You questioned why SL and I didn't come to the conclusion that CW was SK. That's a fairly clear statement that you DID come to that conclusion. I also think my explanation quite neatly fits why you as mafia would shoot Crywolf. If you kill the SK, you remove the suspicion from yourself, and Crywolf was a potential SK suspect.

Xtoxm wrote:Scum could have RB, and with only 1 scum left can't kill and block.

Or EA was a roleblocker or Clockwork is lying.

Hey clockwork, what do you think about Huntress?

Xtoxm · Post Post #573 (ISO) » Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:11 pm

EA did make a convincing argument but I think we can dismiss him as having lied. I don't believe he was a Tracker. In this game, people are directly informed if they are blocked. EA said he didn't get a result, this implies he was blocked, but is wrong. This means he was lieing at minimum about his N1, but likely the whole thing imo.

Vote Huntress

Goat are you waiting for my permission or something?

Huntress · Post Post #574 (ISO) » Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:48 am

Goatrevolt wrote:If you thought EA was scum, why did you hesitate to vote him yesterday? I mean, you spent the entire day completely avoiding the discussion between EA and myself, instead opting to keep your vote on Springlullaby (completely irrelevant when the lynch needed to be between EA and myself). Now you say you thought EA was scum? Your actions don't see to make sense here. Clearly, if you thought EA was scum as you claim, you would have been voting for him, which you did not. I think it's more like you knew EA was scum but wanted to sit things out and see how everything went down before making a move. I don't really see how a townie could act like this: "Well, yeah, I thought EA was scum, so I decided to avoid commenting on him at all, even though his claim was the focal point of the day. Instead I kept a useless vote on springlullaby!"

As I stated at the beginning of that day, I was very short of time to post during the holidays and I also wanted to hear from Springlullaby before deciding on my vote for that day. My vote for her was partly a pressure vote and partly because she and EA were my top suspects. I explained in post 460 why I hadn't commented on the EA/Goat cases but that I was expecting to do so within 24 hours as my routine would be getting back to normal. At that point the voting was at 2/1/1 with four days to go to the deadline. Is it scummy that I didn't know the day would be over within six and a half hours? Or that I wanted to study the discussion before deciding who to vote for?

Goatrevolt wrote:I'm talking about today. You questioned why SL and I didn't come to the conclusion that CW was SK. That's a fairly clear statement that you DID come to that conclusion.

Yes, I said that myself in post 489. That's why I asked the question about it. However, you claimed that I killed CW

last night already convinced

that she was the SK. This is a completely baseless claim.

Xtoxm's statement that CW was killed with a marline spike means that someone, as well as the poisoner, is lying about their weapon or Xtoxm has received and/or is giving false info. As I don't think Goat is mafia and SL, as cook, is more likely to be the poisoner, that just leaves Clockwork. If CW is telling the truth about the cult and his weapon then it looks like Xtoxm may have been recruited. At the moment it could go either way between CR and Xtomx for mafia so I'd be reluctant to vote for either of them just yet. There's also a chance that they may both be town, leaving SL as mafia and Goat as the SK. Whichever way it goes, SL has a higher chance of being scum, either as mafia or SK, than anyone else.

Vote: Springlullaby

@ Xtoxm: Why have you ignored my questions?