Sushi Mafia! Game Over

[Santos]

@raider, the baby doesn't need food. It needs cocaine!!!! :p

[raider8169]

@raider, the baby doesn't need food. It needs cocaine!!!! :p

Ummm yeah..not so much.

The MK case seems is being pushed hard but is seems like it is just being rushed into because we have deadlines. Even though their are deadlines it does not mean everyone needs to focus on just that one person.

I too would like it sumed up as I did not see anything lynch worthy in my reread but as I have 10 minutes here and there to read I may have missed something.

Or is the whole case just meant to kill the 3 people so everyone does not need to wait and figure out if DGB is going to replace or mod?

[Hybris]

Ok yeah, its been over a day in a two week deadline game, is nobody going to respond at all?

[Green Crayons]

Me, I rely on contradiction as a more sure tell; the conflict of actions. I believe in contradiction as a tell so much, I dare say it's fact. Its served me well.
Then again, I think there's no truly 100% reliable scum-tell other than admitting s/he's scum. One might say my opinion of contradiction as a tell it's merely opinion gathered from experience, which is what I say of "role-fishing" as a tell.

So are you suggesting there is never behavior found to be common amongst scum?

OMGUS much, RBT?

I'll post more tomorrow or Sunday as I'm in no condition to think clearly right now.

Strawmanning. Pretending RBT's vote is pure OMGUS while ignoring what reasons there were behind it. Then attacking the easier, fake position. Also, are you in a more reasonable position to explain your strawmanning?

Voting RBT because rice balls should not have tails. A-ok and bandwagoning worthy.
Mentioning Lynchers and Jesters. SCUM!

Voting RBT because rice balls should not have tails is a stupid vote and quite obviously a product of the near-pointless random voting stage.
Voting someone who is mentioning lynchers and jesters in such a way as to hopefully find out who these potential power roles may be is scummish. Town wouldn't do this at the beginning of the game because they would have no reason to believe that there would be any other scum groups than Scrum Group A and Serial Killer A (with maybe a Scum Group B/Serial Killer B thrown in). Lynchers and Jesters are a very specific search and only paranoid scumbags who want potential rivals offed to better secure themselves would role fish for them at the beginning of Day One.

This is what the original push behind a vote for M_K was

, or it was at least as far as I'm concerned. I'm waiting for the conversation around him to mature a bit more until I reread his posts post-vote attention, but I think I will be enjoying my vote even more with his responses while in the lime light.

I find OGML's post about how 'we're lynching M_K' very scummy. Why are you so convinced he's scum?

I find this behavior very indicative of someone not wanting the thread to get bogged down in the usual lengthy Day One multiple lines of suspicion. Normally I would find it scummish outside of ScumChat, but with a definite deadline I don't think it's necessarily an indication one way or another of his alignment. Honestly, I think its something that should be kept in mind for a few days down the road.

[Simenon]

Vote Count

Microphone_Kirby (6)- Pear Bear, OhGodMyLife, Sipylus, Green Crayons, Jebus, Talitha
Seraphim (3)- CounselWolf, sirdanilot, Riceballtail
raider8169 (2)- Plum, Septia,
Alvinz95 (1)- Flameaxe
Flameaxe (1)- raider8169
Slicey (1)- DrippingGoofball
Riceballtail (1)- Seraphim

Not Voting (Santos, alvinz95, ortolan, Sentata, Slicey, Microphone_Kirby, hp [leaves])

13 to lynch. 7 days.

More prods coming.

[Simenon]

Prodding DrippingGoofball, ortolan, Plum, Sipylus, all of whom haven't posted since Wednesday.

[Pear Bear]

Just lurking over here as my random vote on MK seems to have been a bit more than just random...

[Hybris]

Voting RBT because rice balls should not have tails. A-ok and bandwagoning worthy.
Mentioning Lynchers and Jesters. SCUM!

Voting RBT because rice balls should not have tails is a stupid vote and quite obviously a product of the near-pointless random voting stage.
Voting someone who is mentioning lynchers and jesters in such a way as to hopefully find out who these potential power roles may be is scummish. Town wouldn't do this at the beginning of the game because they would have no reason to believe that there would be any other scum groups than Scrum Group A and Serial Killer A (with maybe a Scum Group B/Serial Killer B thrown in). Lynchers and Jesters are a very specific search and only paranoid scumbags who want potential rivals offed to better secure themselves would role fish for them at the beginning of Day One.

This is what the original push behind a vote for M_K was

, or it was at least as far as I'm concerned. I'm waiting for the conversation around him to mature a bit more until I reread his posts post-vote attention, but I think I will be enjoying my vote even more with his responses while in the lime light.

I think you slightly missed what I was getting at. My point was, why does the fact that it was in the random stage absolve all scumminess from the otherwise idiotic RBT votes, but not from the Jester/Lyncher thing M_K mentioned?

[DrippingGoofball]

OK I just came back from a concert and picked up my prod. I have some catching up to do here, I got caught up with drama in other games.

[Talitha]

Look, we have a firm deadline and it's now less than a week away. My understanding is that if we do not reach a majority there will not be a lynch. Voting, pressure and lynching are the town's main weapons, so why are people not using them? I cannot begin to understand why SO many people are not voting.

We have a decent main bandwagon on M-K. Why not use your vote to

support

it, put some pressure on him, and make progress for the town? If you don't think M-K is a good vote, then have a look at Seraphim or raider who also have multiple votes. If you are the only one voting for a person, either make a good case and convince others to join you, or reconsider putting your vote somewhere where it is actually

doing

something.

Hybris, the scummy thing about mentioning jesters/lynchers is the fact that M-K was thinking about jesters and lynchers at a point in the game where town knows nothing about the setup apart from that there's mafia out there somewhere. Idiotic random votes are made early day one in just about every single game by town and by scum. (Basically what Green Crayons said). Do you really think there's something odd or scummy about the RBT votes or are you just using it as a defence of MK? If yes, can you please explain further?

[Seraphim]

I'm not sure if I noted this, but I will be quoting normally again. That was just an experiment and I didn't like the format much either.

Building up to a bandwagon vote are we?

Or maybe I'm just getting bad vibes off of him? I just don't like some of his posts even if they aren't inherently anti-town.

Could you quote me some posts of others (before the azhrei post) that contain the information you suspect azhrei of copying?

Aragh...third window, coming up...you're going to make me crash my browser, you know?

For the self-voting part, check out posts 77-99.

For the 'we're out of the random phrase' part...

I almost always vote Day One self-voters. Personal philosophy of mine. And a (exceptionally minor) scum tell, which is better than random at this point.

What is more important, is the reactions of people seeing such a scum tell. I'm enjoying sitting on my luxury chair and observing the reactions of the players.

So, RBT, why did you self vote? Let's hear it.

And on and on. Once discussion gets serious, it's clear that the random phase is over. His post had no content in it, so I felt he needed more prodding.

You ignored my comment about ignoring raider.

Because I couldn't resist as his statement was so easy to question. His post stood out to be as I read it. That should answer both questions, I believe.

A townie would find a way between these extremes. You see, casting a wide net is easy for scum since it allows them to flip flop and change at their whim. Tunneling is also easy for them since they can ignore anything else that's happening in the game. Of course I have seen townies tunneling too, and if done correctly it can give some major information but I do not agree with tunneling if it's being done for an entire day 1

So my net is wider than your's. Is that really a scumtell? You're right, I don't think anyone right now is incredibly scummy. I still think RBT needs to contribute more as she is kinda flying under the radar at the moment.

I'm at a loss why you suddenly flip over and vote a completely different person now.

If I don't have a good suspect, I will vote lurkers or players I want to hear from. It's become...I suppose 'meta' is the word. You see, especially in Day 1, a vote is a statement. Unlike an FoS, however, this statement has merit. Votes, as a statement, can mean multiple things. My vote means that I want pressure on RBT to post more content.

This looks like an opportunistic park vote for scum because of the accusations against him.

This is bull. If I wanted your lynch, I would be attacking much harder than I am now. My vote is simply saying that I want you to post more content. I didn't notice your V/LA and you still haven't posted content now.

Strawmanning. Pretending RBT's vote is pure OMGUS while ignoring what reasons there were behind it. Then attacking the easier, fake position. Also, are you in a more reasonable position to explain your strawmanning?

My vote is even more justified now when she's out of V/LA and still has yet to post more content. I want to hear more from her. I wanted to hear more from her then as well. She accused me of 'scum parking my vote' which I found to be bull. At the time, I did not accuse of her being scummy, I was merely putting pressure down. The fact that she took it as an attack on her looks remarkably defensive on a Day 1. [/quote]

[Plum]

Picked up my prod; sorry about that, all. Let me try to pull some analysis out of this game, shall I?

So, Azhrei and I have sort of come to some sort of agreement on a very minor point. Very well. Then Sirdanilot continues to argue with/against Seraphim. I very much disagree that naming multiple suspects from whom you cannot decide who's scummiest and most deserves your vote (and hence not voting at the moment) is inherintly scummy. It's a nulltell in my mind. Sure, scum can use it as an excuse to sit back and wait for a convenient bandwagon. At the same time, a townie can legitimately not find anyone significantly scummy/more scummy than the rest of his suspects to pick one and vote, at least early in this game (where I still feel that by page 7 there have been few if any moderately strong scumtells at all). The rest of Sirdan's post against Seraphim deals in great part with interpretations of Seraphim's posts; I do not agree with many of these interpretations, though most of them are not illegitimate readings, I suppose.

Ah, discussion of Ort's 'meta defense'. They really seemed to be two distinct cases. I recall in the case Ort brought, Ort was speculating that Animorpherv was a Jester after particularly egregious scumplay on Ani's part, and the argument was that he was scummy and might have been trying to derail the wagon (I argued that with the lynch practically inevitable and Ort's vote still on Ani, the argument was stupid). In this case MK half-seriously, in his own words, speculated about the possibility that Seraphim was a Lyncher and RBT a Jester. In the RVS after jokey comments and votes. It's not helpful, it wasn't warranted at all, might distract the town, and it doesn't really point to a townie mindset. Thus I do feel that it's a legit though minor scumtell on the part of MK.

Um, OMGUS-y vote by RBT? I'll have a closer look at the circumstances once I've finished the brief reread proper. Seraphim's vote didn't look too oportunistic; his seems to be the only vote on RBT in the next votecount. RBT claims his vote has more reasoning than Seaphim's.

FOS: RBT

. Nevermind; it seems that in Seraphim's 'wide-net' post he didn't even mention RBT as suspicious, and perhaps scum-Seraphim was picking him to vote in answer to Sirdan's suspicions. Which would be a minor scumtell on the part of Seraphim. OGML, with some truth, calls RBT and Seraphim 'noise'. However he's adamant that we're lynching MK today. The surety of that with about one week left till deadline is a bit much, however. I've had previous town vibes from OGML, but

IGMEOY

.

Some less important posts here (give a baby cocaine WTH random ).

Pear Bear, why are you, in your words, 'lurking'? Your random vote has become more than random? Well, what do you find suspicious about MK? Just leaving your vote on a big bandwagon and walking away again, are you? Thoughts? Opinions? Any semblance of contribution?

Vote: Pear Bear

[Riceballtail]

You're right, I do tend to seem under the radar when I've spent most of the game V/LA. That's why we notify people of such an absence. Now that I'm back, and caught up on most of the games, I can start posting more regularly.

However, you seem to be the only one who's pushing me, and honestly, you don't even seem to care that much anyway. Why, then, are you wasting your vote?

[Hybris]

Hybris, the scummy thing about mentioning jesters/lynchers is the fact that M-K was thinking about jesters and lynchers at a point in the game where town knows nothing about the setup apart from that there's mafia out there somewhere. Idiotic random votes are made early day one in just about every single game by town and by scum. (Basically what Green Crayons said). Do you really think there's something odd or scummy about the RBT votes or are you just using it as a defence of MK? If yes, can you please explain further?

Well, I don't find anything scummy at all about the RBT votes, which is my point. I see it as meaningless things done for the sake of entertainment in the random stage. I would assume the same would hold true to other things in the random stage, which is my point.

And actually, even if it wasn't in the random voting stage, I don't see how its that scummy regardless. Personally, I know that its despised around here and I can actually understand that meta thought process despite not having it. But considering nobody here will even consider it due to the hate all on the boards have of the roles, you really wouldn't expect it to be in the game and this would be at scummiest derailment even in seriousness, due to it being like speculating there is an SK spare the much less likely chance of it actually being so. But its in the random stage, so the only thing I find scummy about it disappears.

Ok, I'm going to ask a question to everybody on the wagon; Do you really think he was being serious about it, given that its so despised on the boards as the mere mention of it at a joking time garners this kind of reaction, and that same hate would keep all the roles like those out of the games thus making it next to pointless to ask if being serious?

[Slicey]

Maybe cause he finds you more scummy than MK? >_>

Anyway, I feel the MK has somewhat contradicted himself. First, he states that he could care less about the power roles in this game. Then, he said he was half serious that he speculated the power roles of Seraphim and RBT. Why are you speculating power roles if you don't care about them? That, coupled with Green Crayons explanation deserves a vote on MK.

Vote: MK

[Seraphim]

You're right, I do tend to seem under the radar when I've spent most of the game V/LA. That's why we notify people of such an absence. Now that I'm back, and caught up on most of the games, I can start posting more regularly.

However, you seem to be the only one who's pushing me, and honestly, you don't even seem to care that much anyway. Why, then, are you wasting your vote?

Because forcing out lurkers(even when they are actually on V/LA...which is my bad) is still more useful than putting your vote on someone who don't believe is scummy, just for the sake of putting your vote down. Now that you're out of V/LA, I look forward to playing with you. On that note...

Unvote
Vote: Santos

You have four posts all game. One was to confirm, the other three were joke votes. Lurk much?

[ortolan]

Sorry for belated reply, I shall endeavour to maintain an extreme level of activity in this game for a while to make up.

Not liking the NK bandwagon

Unvote

I see his comment about jesters as stupid/newb rather than scummy, thus it is a scumtell. I did the same in RealTime mafia when I was town (and newb).

A) He joined in march. That isn't exactly "newb" territory anymore.
B) If we all had the mentality of "it was a stupid mistake!", we would never get anywhere.
C) It isn't a null-tell because you've done it as town. If there was a bit more sarcasm there, and he made it obvious it was a joke (which he made obvious it wasn't), I could see it. But when it comes right down to it, it s a scumtell.


In other news, my vote reflects someone who needs to get in here.
In other other news, DGB is unusually quiet.

A) There's plenty of people who've been around for 2+ years whose play I would probably describe as "stupid/newb". Often this is because their play usually elicits large numbers of votes, which is bad play for either townies or mafia.

B) I prefer to look for more sophisticated scumtells. Jumping on someone and tunneling for a comment I don't think has any necessary scum motivation at all seems far more likely to lynch a townie than scum.

C) Onus is on the accuser. Why is someone speculating about jesters scummy in and of itself? It seems the theory is that if M_K suggested RBT was a jester, then they are scumbuddies and he is trying to avoid getting his buddy lynched. So the idea that jester speculation is scummy is contingent on them both being scum to begin with. Otherwise MK has no motivation to bring it up. In the absence of a flip on either one of them, I ask you why, in general, is someone suggesting someone else may be a jester scummy? My *only* experience with it in the past when I was town- I got jumped on for doing it so I know not do it now for prudential reasons, but that still doesn't mean it's a good scum-tell. If there is any evidence you can provide that it is a popularly-used scum gambit, I would change my position.

still re-reading

[Microphone_Kirby]

Me, I rely on contradiction as a more sure tell; the conflict of actions. I believe in contradiction as a tell so much, I dare say it's fact. Its served me well.
Then again, I think there's no truly 100% reliable scum-tell other than admitting s/he's scum. One might say my opinion of contradiction as a tell it's merely opinion gathered from experience, which is what I say of "role-fishing" as a tell.

So are you suggesting there is never behavior found to be common amongst scum?

From my experience, yes.
I've seen scum post often and lurk like hell, scum give constructive posts and useless posts, and "bus" Mafia and Townie alike... amongst other such opposites.
I will say one of each opposite happens more often than the other with scum, but I still say there's no 100% reliable scum-tell.

Anyway, I feel the MK has somewhat contradicted himself. First, he states that he could care less about the power roles in this game. Then, he said he was half serious that he

speculated the

power roles

of Seraphim and RBT

. Why are you speculating power roles if you don't care about them? That, coupled with Green Crayons explanation deserves a vote on MK.

Vote: MK

...OK, seriously...



You're making me laugh!!! Jesters and lynchers

power roles

??? You got to be kidding me!

FoS: Slicey

Oh, and

Vote: OhGodMyLife

[Seraphim]

M_K, why are you voting OGML?

[Microphone_Kirby]

Two Reasons, Seraphim:

One:

Seraphim and Riceball is just noise right now. We're lynching M_K.

This game has serious strict deadlines, lets not mess around.

M_K, its not tunnel vision, its looking for scums that aren't your scumteam.

OK...

that's

tunnel vision. That much I'm sure of.

And 8 Days is

plenty

of time to speculate... for me, at least.

You're making a situation out of... well, something that isn't one. Yet.

Tunnel Vision + Hurrying people along when there's plenty of time (can't think of shorter words for all that... :\) = Seriously bad vibes, especially if he didn't respond to [the quoted post] yet.

And Two... you can say it's OMGUS, but whatever.

Look, we have a firm deadline and it's now less than a week away. My understanding is that if we do not reach a majority there will not be a lynch. Voting, pressure and lynching are the town's main weapons, so why are people not using them? I cannot begin to understand why SO many people are not voting.

We have a decent main bandwagon on M-K. Why not use your vote to

support

it, put some pressure on him, and make progress for the town? If you don't think M-K is a good vote, then have a look at Seraphim or raider who also have multiple votes. If you are the only one voting for a person, either make a good case and convince others to join you, or reconsider putting your vote somewhere where it is actually

doing

something.

... Progress? Lynching Townies =/= Progress... not that anyone will take my word for it...
And I don't see the rush... yet. 3 Days to deadline is a good time to rush, but not now.
...

FoS: Talitha

You're starting to sound like OGML in the "hurry up" department.

[Azhrei]

M_K, why are you voting OGML?

I'd like to know that as well. Now, I don't particularly think the reason the MK bandwagon started is all that great, but I really don't like the way he's responded to it. The way he's talking just seems scummy to me, like how he admitted he was only half joking about the Jester/Lyncher speculation.

As such,

Vote: MK

[Azhrei]

EBWOP, you posted your explanation while I was posting, sorry. I can understand the what you're saying about 8 days being enough, and his tunnel vision, but I still find you scummy.

If you flip townie, I'm going to be looking very closely at OGML tomorrow.

[DrippingGoofball]

M_K is just wild. Even I have trouble wrapping my head around it...

[Santos]

Yes, I am semi-lurking, but I am not hesitating to post; I just don't have much to add at the moment as most of the discussion usually works itself out. I'm in no hurry to lynch anyone: If a decision needs to be made, then I don't mind being the deciding vote...

[Setanta]

K I've been neglecting this game apologies.

Will re-read later today after uni. Specifically the Mk bandwagon, and my initial feeling is that while it's not great reasoning his responses, to me, aren't that good, but as I said we'll see later on.

So yea, content filled post later, for now off to Botany

Also nice to see Pear Bear and Santos admit they're lurking, care to explain why that's the case?