Mini 696 ~ Scum o' the Sea ~ Game Over

[Goatrevolt]

Goat are you waiting for my permission or something?

Nope. I'm waiting to hear from Springlullaby at this point. Actually, I'd like to hear Clockwork's take on who he thinks is scum as well.

[Huntress]

Just been doing a review of Xtoxm's posts and I found this interesting; (all except the last are from the last 12 hours of day three).

I'll now happily hammer anyone. Except myself. Not when i'm a PR

I think Spring is a good prospect, that has the best chance of getting lynched.

Unvote Vote Spring

Post 349: He expresses dislike of a no lynch. (At least I think that's what he meant.)
Then SL votes Goat (post 350).

Unvote Vote Goat

That's L-1?

Goat would be my lynch of preference today, I think. Hunt/Wolf, hammer?

(In fact, it was only L-2.)

Unvote Vote Huntress

There is no advantage to NL. Just lets the SK kill and Cult recruit. Only scum wants NL.

That's three vote switches in a few hours, ending up on someone who had no other votes against them.
In post 358, he wrote, "... but gotta make sure we get a lynch in today."

The Final Tally
3 ~ Goatrevolt (Erratus Apathos, springlullaby, ClockworkRuse)
3 ~ Erratus Apathos (Goatrevolt, Huntress, crywolf20084)
1 ~ Huntress (Xtoxm)

In post 369, Xtoxm wrote, "NL yesterday was horrible..."

To sum it up; his words were against a no-lynch but his actions helped to cause one.

@ Springlullaby: You accused me in connection with the no-lynch but I don't see a single word from you about Xtoxm's failure to help toward a lynch by voting for one of the leading contenders, despite the fact one of them was his "lynch of preference". Why?

[Xtoxm]

Because when I voted it wasn't like that at all, the rest of you waited right up to the last minute to place your votes, at which time I was not around.

Huntress had a chance to hammer Goat over EA and didn't, do you think this is significant?

[Xtoxm]

Unvote

[Huntress]

Huntress had a chance to hammer Goat over EA and didn't, do you think this is significant?

Since Goat was never higher than L-2, when did I have the chance to hammer?

[Xtoxm]

Oh I thought what you quoted was 4 to lynch my bad.

[springlullaby]

Are you serious? Give me a freaking break. I'm attacking you because I think your play is scummy. You're attacking Huntress presumably because you think her play is scummy. Well guess what, sometimes two separate people do similar scummy stuff! How novel. So, not only am I not able to ever agree with any opinion Springlullaby puts in the thread, I'm also not allowed to attack other people based on any similar scumtells. Doing so would be "copycatting" and scum are the only ones who ever agree with other people. /sarcasm.

By the way, you never answered my earlier question. Why shouldn't I vote you for agreeing with my case on Gremwell? I mean, I gave reasons why I thought Gremwell was scum and you said you agreed with them and voted for him. You rogue copycat, you! And since you've so clearly established that copycatting is the mark of scum, you implicate yourself as scum quite clearly with that little play. Am I right?

I think I already explained this once. The difference between you and me is that I said straight up that I agreed with your case and didn't use one unnecessary word. You on the other hand took my thoughts, repackaged them in others words, and presented them in lengthy posts as an original POV on this game.

The scumminess here is not whether you agree with me or not, or whether you gave me credit, and it is not even dependent on how much I think I am correct. The scumminess of your copycatting is in the deception of contribution you create by posting what has already been said, when in fact the value of your copycat content is zero and merely echoes.

What? You directly asked me for the psychology behind why you would make that play as scum. How dare I try to explain your psychology after you ask me to! Note, here, the fact that your next paragraph is entirely based on the psychology of townies vs. scum. I'm disgusted by the psychoanalysis present.

I'll acknowledge this one, but still your 'is a strong indication of your mentality' just sounds like crap to me.

Why do you waste your time asking me questions that lead to those answers then? You asked me why you would have given me the benefit of the doubt as scum. That's like asking why scum sometimes defend townies. Um...because it makes them look good? Because it's easy to defend someone as town when you know they are town? etc. etc.

Here I detect slight deception. In your post the answer you gave was 'it is easy for scum to give benefit of the doubt because they know who is innocent', which is a shitty answer, and different from the one you are giving now, and upon which I called you on.

What you want or what you hope has no relevance on what is. Why do you think there is a vig? I don't want to know why you would hope for one, I just want to know why you actually think there is one.

Xtoxm's role is how you fake innocence. You can't "innocently" believe the wrong thing if nobody actually knows what the right answer is.

I faced this as scum before, and it can sometimes be a complicated matter. Scum have more information than townies. They know the setup much better than townies do. Sometimes scum get caught specifically because they have more knowledge than they are supposed to. I caught scum in a somewhat recent game simply because he suggested the possibility of multiple scum groups (pretty much out of nowhere). Well, there were two scum groups, and his knowledge of this made it obvious he was scum.

Anyway the point is that oftentimes scum will suggest wrong ideas about the setup either to mislead the town or to appear innocent of having too much knowledge when the actual setup is uncovered. It's why I'm harassing you about this vig thing, because it strikes me as exactly that. I don't see how you could logically come to the conclusion of a vig based on the information in thread. I want to know why you believe there to be one, not why you hope for one.

The answer I gave you is what it is. My role is more powerful if there is a vig, which makes me think and hope that there is one. This is called an educated guess. The same way a miller may guess that there is a cop in a setup based on their role.

Now, tell me, why are you selectively quoting me?

[springlullaby]

Role fishing was only a small part of the points I raised. Let's recap:

In post 259 you made some accusations to which I replied/asked for clarification in post 261. You expanded on this in post 277 to which I replied in post 280, refuting your points and raising questions on some of your answers. You replied in post 303 saying you thought my defense was okay. Does this mean you accept that your accusations were wrong? But you then went on to say that you still thought I was scummy for those reasons! In post 307 I said that I'd still like to see your responses to the points I made and the questions I asked (in post 280), and I also made other points about 303. These you never responded to at all. Am I to assume this was because you knew your points in that post were baseless?

This is not what I asked for. I'm asking you to summarize you case on me in a way which prove that your question have any inherent scumhunting value, because I think they do not and is an indication of your scummyness. Case in point: the loaded question at the end of the above paragraph.

And to respond to you one question I think has merits in the above: I did not accept that my accusation were wrong, merely said that you presented an acceptable defense, but I also distincly recall precising that I thought you were scum despite of it.

Why? Because sometimes people present okay defense upon which it would be unreasonable to argue further, it still doesn't impede one of thinking them to be scum. You see, in the absence of certainty, it is up to one to give the benefit of the doubt or not.

So you would "probably" have used your power, thereby causing a no-lynch? I asked this question in direct response to the following:

1) You see, Huntress unwillingness to lynch Goat at deadline make absolutly zero sense from a town standpoint:
- and lynch is always better than nolynch, especially in the situation yesterday when faced with a cult: nolynch is like giving scum a free cult and a free kill
- she claimed vanilla, hence she could not have been sure Goat was not scum

This makes me think that the most probable mafia/cult counts Goat and Huntress in its members. That or she is moronically obtuse town which is always a chance. If Huntress is town I would like to see her giving a solid explanation on why she thought it was better to let nolynch happen.

I wanted to see how genuine your comments about no-lynch really were. You correctly say that as a vanilla I could not have been sure about Goat, but shouldn't that also apply to you? Apparently you think it's acceptable if you're causing it but not acceptable if you can blame it on me.
And incidently, how was I alone to blame for no-lynch at deadline when Goat had only three of the five votes required? In fact, five hours earlier he only had two. What about the other four who didn't vote for him?

You see, this is the exact kind of argument that makes me think you are scum. It is based on superficial logic that actually present no insight on the game.

Here the gist of your accusation seems to be 'haha, contradiction'.

But you see, the difference between you and me is that I was expressively given a role by the mod, which make me think the outcome of which is also protown. You on the other hand has no such reason for letting the no-lynch happen.

Because it looked like you you were trying to protect EA by turning the voting to me or Goat.

What did you think of Goat asking for an extension then?

Note here that you show up as strongly linked to Goat, which makes me really worry about EA being and organized bus to protect Goat.



[/quote]

[springlullaby]

It's time to reach a decision. At the moment the biggest uncertainty is Xtoxm fakeclaiming on his result. Because poison when I already claimed cook, then marline spike while Huntress already claimed it is not to difficult to fake if Xtoxm were scum. If he is SK, he would know the kills were SK kills, and would want to put the priority elsewhere when Clockwork came out with the cult info. If he was cult himself, he would know the kill didn't come from his faction.

But I've read him as town all along. And that kind of gambit would take some balls, which is respectable.

Goat can be discarded. I'll respect the play if EA was a bus. But if the Potates meta-clear is fake, then it's the mod fault for making it possible.

Clock can be dismissed as SK as per Goat, and I do not think revealing cult make sense as cult. Plus I believe in the officer rank.

Vote Huntress

[Xtoxm]

I read you as town too Spring, which is why I said I thought the mod was trying to mislead me with the poison thing. That Grem having a Spike.

Vote Huntress

[Xtoxm]

*and

[springlullaby]

If it's a gambit, then kuddos.

[Xtoxm]

No i'm town

[Goatrevolt]

I think I already explained this once. The difference between you and me is that I said straight up that I agreed with your case and didn't use one unnecessary word. You on the other hand took my thoughts, repackaged them in others words, and presented them in lengthy posts as an original POV on this game.

The scumminess here is not whether you agree with me or not, or whether you gave me credit, and it is not even dependent on how much I think I am correct. The scumminess of your copycatting is in the deception of contribution you create by posting what has already been said, when in fact the value of your copycat content is zero and merely echoes.

I don't think you've ever said that before, but that was pretty much what I was hoping you'd actually say. For the record, I've done quite a bit of scumhunting and provided quite a bit of "original content" this game. It's impossible to avoid copycatting to some extent in a game, and I don't intend on ever busting my balls to try to do so, because it's pretty much irrelevant. The fact that you were trying to call me out as copycatting because I had a case on you that bore similarities to your own case on someone else was truly absurd.

Vote Huntress

if I get NKed, keep in mind that Clockwork cannot possibly be the serial killer. Xtoxm can possibly be the serial killer, but it is extremely unlikely.

@Xtoxm: I would never assume the mod's intention is to mislead you in any way. The fact that your role points to springlullaby being the serial killer is meaningful and not misleading. Springlullaby as scum, for instance, could have claimed a different role than cook and avoided that suspicion entirely. The fact that your role actually does implicate people like Huntress and Springlullaby proves that it's actually useful. The combination of your role and Clockwork's is fairly strong, whereas both are a lot weaker on their own. For instance, your role heavily implicates springlullaby as cook. Springlullaby can avoid that by claiming something other than cook. Clockwork can then pounce on and catch that lie. You two combined create a weaker cop of sorts.

[Xtoxm]

If that was Ythill's thoughts when he made this setup, I think that's a really sweet idea.

[Xtoxm]

if I get NKed, keep in mind that Clockwork cannot possibly be the serial killer. Xtoxm can possibly be the serial killer, but it is extremely unlikely.

I'm hoping the game will end with this lynch, but if it doesn't i'm pretty sure it'll be me getting the kill...

[springlullaby]

Cardflip plox?

[Xtoxm]

Ythill has declared his status. I've PMed him to let him know we've reached a lynch.

[Ythill]

Unlike the others, Huntress was strung up quickly and quietly. She tried pointing a finger at another crewman, but nobody was listening. She jerks a couple of times at the end of Morgan's hanging rope, and then all is quiet.

A quick search reveals that she was telling the truth about one thing anyway: her only weapon is a blood-encrusted marlin spike.

Morgan smiles and declares that it's time to get drunk.

A sailor (Huntress) has been slain. She was mutinous scum.

Please note that computer access on this trip has been harder to find than I expected. Rather than post a false promise of availability, I have set the night action deadline for late next week, when I will be back home and in front of my computer.

Thanks for your patience.

The Final Tally

3 ~ Huntress (Springlullaby, Xtoxm, Goatrevolt)

1 ~ Springlullaby (Huntress)
Not voting: ClockworkRuse.

Overall Prods: Huntress (1); springlullaby (1); Goatrevolt (1); Xtoxm (1).
Night action deadline: Thursday, January 29, 12:00 MST (GMT-7).

[Ythill]

Your time below decks has been long and boring, but not really relaxing. Other than the captain, there are only four of you left and it’s hard to sleep knowing that one of you is likely to die before the next watch is called. With so few crewmen and the sheets furled in their lockers, the ship is as quiet as the bottom of the sea. It drifts steadily on the southern trade winds, through the Canary Basin, just off the coast of Africa which stands like an invisible promise of redemption beyond the horizon off the port-side rail.

You are roused from your reverie by the captain’s hoarse shout, “Land Ho!” Cursing the lack of rest, you climb to the deck to get back to work. Morgan is standing at the wheel, shouting too many orders for this skeleton crew to carry out. A crumpled form is motionless at his feet, confirming that there are only three crewmen left this morning.

You busy yourselves with the lines but your chanties are too quiet and cold to be inspiring. The captain speaks blandly over your dulcet tones. “Seems we still gots a problem, as you kin see from the body o’ poor ClockworkRuse. It’s got me shiverin’ that the dogs be brave enough ta take the first mate.”

“We don’t got enough crew ta’ make it ‘round the cape, lads. So I’m ‘fraid Africa’s gonna be our port o’ call fer awhile. We’ll drop anchor off a’ La Palma an’ take the longboat ta’ shore. Now gets ye ta’ hangin’. We’ll see if we can’t kill this villain before we abandon the Scum.”

The first mate (ClockworkRuse) has been slain. He was loyal to the captain.
The sixth and final watch begins! With three alive, it takes two to lynch.
Automatic deadline: Thursday, February 12, at 13:00 MST (GMT-7).

[springlullaby]

open the rum

[Xtoxm]

K, i'm p much ready to shank SL with you Goat. She seems to hve abandoned the game, and randomed on to CR (who, ftr, has flaked from all his games...)

He was poisoned but that's to be expected...

[Xtoxm]

Oh, shit. You're SK, and have that power? Gay.

[Xtoxm]

And seeing as i've made a save, and we double scum lynched, that means town has been fucked ever since that NL...

[springlullaby]

Nah, I'm not SK. I'm paranoid gun owner, so whatever the result, town wins.