Mini 696 ~ Scum o' the Sea ~ Game Over

[Xtoxm]

Oh, anf forgot to say - I like the beefing up of the SK. (Priority of actions, and the extra ability) The reason I don't like them, is cos they're just a second one man mafia, that just have the odds stacked against them...It wasn't so much so here. So that's my main opinions...Parrot softer PR, no Surv. Not sure what to say about the Cult cos I just hate recruitability as a whole, But I think makes sense from a setup and balance perspective.

[Ythill]

In no particular order...

Used my action to early? I strongly disagree.

I wasn't judging your strategy, just saying that you unknowingly used an ability that could have won the endgame, even with the way things turned out. Imagine how nervous SL would have been if D6 had gone to night with just the three of you remaining and her completely revealed.

Cults are deadly enough when they're public from the start...Though I guess only 2 or 3 were recruitable...

And the scum didn't know who they were. And there was only one succesful recruit allowed. Basically, it was a way for careful scum to gain their third member, a way doomed to cripple them if they weren't careful. I wouldn't call them a cult, per se. Just a one-shot cult-like power.

I disagree with the mechanic in SL's role; I think it should be implemantable after a hammer, I find a rush to post first or similar situations wuite farcical...

This aspect was really just part of the flavor. Drinking rum makes people too intoxicated to finish lynching. It does not raise the dead.

I don't agree with the lynch SK before Cult thing, you should always want to get rid of Cult before an SK.

I dislike

always

when used in conjunction with mafia games. You had all the information to safely assume that Huntress was not recruiting and I believe SL had already claimed her one-shot lynch prevention. Normally I'd agree with your strategy but the infromation was there to justify rethinking it.

Yeh the NL was horrible...I think that just came about cos too many of the players were too inactive...SL, Mili, CW all have low contributive lurky playstyles. I don't think a harsh NL forcing unextendable deadline like that was necessary, especially with how much NL hurts town in this game...

I abhor protown lurkers. You'll never see me mod a game where lurking doesn't hurt the town. It's easy to blame it on the rules, but everyone was aware of them so it's probably more accurate to blame the NL on the players.

He was either designed as a mislynch (almost certainly on D1), or unintentionally became, and I don't like that at all - Apart from any balance issues, it's not fair on the player that gets it...I think restrictions should be in some way workable...

Meh. It was a tough PR but it was certainly possible to play. MM was questioned too hard and lead to break the restriction by good play from SL (and a little help from wolf). Like I said, if a townie or two had spotted the leading questions and helped MM out, she could have lived long enough to be investigated and therefore cleared.

Overall I do think it was very hard for town to win this, and the game did start with 4 scum...I don't care what you say, Surv is anti-town scum.

I have to disagree with you about the survivor. Having played one myself, I know that the best route to victory is to quietly work toward a quick town win. The main danger of the role, IMO, is that the player makes a believable claim and essentially becomes an extra unlynchable townie. Note that her win condition wasn't exclusive, she just had to be alive at the end of the game, so she could have won with the town.

I am interested to know what people think of the barber-mate combo in place of a cop. It had its drawbacks, but I thought it did the job of giving town a really big advantage if the two players found a way to work together. I know Goat commented on this ingame, but I'd still like to read people's opinions.

Also, I guess I should send out the "game over" PM.

[MiteyMouse]

Great game everyone! I'm so sorry...I was really bad with my restrictions.

[Ythill]

FYI: The "subtly revealed in the flavor" aspect of the barber's one-shot was going to be fun. It was going to give someone a peg-leg or an eye-patch.

Also, did anyone catch the flavor clue about the SK's one-shot power? One of the rules said something about not drinking the captain's rum. What loyal crewman would have the ability to make everyone drink it?

[Xtoxm]

I am interested to know what people think of the barber-mate combo in place of a cop. It had its drawbacks, but I thought it did the job of giving town a really big advantage if the two players found a way to work together. I know Goat commented on this ingame, but I'd still like to read people's opinions.

Mentioned this whne G brought it up - I think it's a really sweet idea.

Also, did anyone catch the flavor clue about the SK's one-shot power? One of the rules said something about not drinking the captain's rum. What loyal crewman would have the ability to make everyone drink it?

Yeh I read it, thought nothing, I didn't even think about trying to find clues in that, assumed you wouldn't have. That's generally how it goes.

[Ythill]

Yeah, I couldn't resist.

[Huntress]

Congrats Springlullaby! And thanks, Ythill, for a really enjoyable game.

I liked the pace and having to adjust to a change of alignment was an interesting challenge, a new one for me, and my first time playing as scum, too. Although I was a little disappointed that EA got himself lynched before I had a chance to chat with him. I'd really like to know why he made that tracker claim.

Huntress, why did you shoot Crywolf?

I decided on her because she was least likely to be protected, or to be the SK's target, and she was my third suspect for SK. She was also not going to be easy to get lynched. I guessed that either Goat or SL would be protected by Militant to prevent them killing and that Militant would be the SK's target. My mistake was overlooking the danger of Xtoxm's role. I was fooled into thinking he was only told the alignment of the killer although, given the flavour or his role, that didn't make sense.

One of my reasons for suspecting SL was that after I was recruited I found that EA had attempted, and failed, to recruit her earlier and her claim to be a cook did not appear to fit in with her being an officer.

[Goatrevolt]

I'm just disappointed that I had the game figured out and still lost anyway. That's a bit frustrating.

I was on EA and Springlullaby since day 3, and figured out Huntress was scum immediately based on the way she handled day 4. Day 4 also solidified SL as scum in my mind as well. I was a bit iffy on which of them were in which group, but they were definitely scum.

And while you say I could have saved my ability for the win in the endgame, based on the way day 3 went down, I had to use it then. I knew I was setting myself up to be night killed, and it was use it or lose it. You can't expect players with 1 shot abilities to save those to the endgame. It's too risky a strategy for that player, and frankly, not good play. The strength of my ability was such that it needed to be used before I died, so I waited until the moment I thought it likely I would die and used it. It turned out I WAS targeted for a kill that night.

Also, apparently the extra roleblock on Clockwork was due to him trying to target me the night I was kept in prison. I feel that could have been figured out, but CR didn't present that information, and I recall militant claiming that his ability only stopped kills and not all night actions. I just assumed EA was probably a roleblocker who claimed tracker instead.

I thought Huntress played a good game, and it sucks to get recruited like that. In retrospect, it makes a lot of sense, though, as I thought you were very pro-town until day 4, where you suddenly became very scummy.

Spring, you did a good job of keeping yourself from getting lynched. I'm a little bitter here, personally, just because I had a read of you as scum pretty much the entire game, but I do think you played solidly. The role claim was nice. It's pretty gutsy to make a claim you can't actually back up, but then again, we were in no position to test it out. That was well-done.

EA. I'm curious why you made that claim in the first place? Militant's information seemed like it would be enough to seal my fate. Your claim just gave me the information (and desire) I needed to wiggle out of it.

------

Ythill, on the whole I thoroughly enjoyed the game, despite losing. It was one of the more fun games of mafia I've played in a while, even though I have some serious issues with the game setup/balance. I wish I could have been in the game since the beginning, as I feel the town played poorly the first few days, and I would have liked to try to make a difference.

Here are a couple of issues I had with the setup:

1. Recruitment. I personally despise this mechanic, and it's something that I really never want to see in a game unless it's the theme of the game or otherwise made known ahead of time. I feel it invalidates a large portion of scum hunting, which can be frustrating for the town. So much of scum hunting is evaluating players early behavior and early connections to dead scum. If you throw away those connections as meaningless, you lose a large portion of the means to catch scum. Huntress, for example, I feel played a strongly pro-town game. And she was town, at first. If it wasn't for Xtoxm's role and the way she handled the situation with EA and myself day 4, I would have been content to let her skate away with a win. Her alignment change made my earlier read of her entirely meaningless.

2. Post restrictions that deny communication. I don't have an issue with post restrictions in general, however post restrictions that are meant to limit the ability for a player to actually communicate with the town is something I have a problem with, and something I have never seen work out well. Invariably, players will find a way to communicate with this player, via code. And that's not wrong. Why is that player in the game in the first place if they are unable to actually communicate? The problem is that being able to communicate with this player goes outside of what was intended for that role in the first place. It puts the mod in a tough position of deciding what is acceptable and what constitutes a modkill, which can entirely be a judgment call.

3. Overall game balance. Two initial scum with the ability to recruit is stronger than 3 scum. Mix that with a SK and a survivor, and you're looking at 5/12 players being anti-town. The town had a jailkeeper, a 1 shot mass roleblocker, a forensic scientist + name cop (slightly less powerful than a standard cop), and then a PR'd townie as a detrimental role. The town is about standard strength for a 3 scum v. 9 townie game, but has to also deal with a SK with a powerful ability and a neutral survivor. The town is going to be fighting an uphill battle the entire way. I'm not even just talking about the number of mistakes the town is allowed to make before they lose (1 mislynch, 1 no lynch...we even thwarted a lot of night kills/recruits), but also in terms of cooperation and scumhunting. When a large portion of the game is either directly trying to force down mislynches or ambivalent to who gets lynched, the town has minimal chance to succeed.


The game was fun, though. And you did an excellent job modding. You were very on top of the game, from flavor, to answering questions, to dealing with PM's, votecounts, etc. It was one of the better modded games I've played in, definitely.

I wish I could have been able to keep up with the pirate talk the entire game, but it became too unwieldy. There was no point keeping it up if it was actually getting in the way of me communicating properly. There's no way I could have defended myself day 4, for example, if I was too worried about calling EA a bilge-sucking wench.

[Goatrevolt]

Also, what did Mitey do to get modkilled?

I remember being suspicious of SL's "did anyone see what Mitey did to get killed" post, but I didn't know anything about the situation to really press that point.

[Ythill]

I agree that, had you been playing from the begining, this game may have ended differently. You're a great player, Goat.

1. Recruitment. I personally despise this mechanic

LOL. I have this thing (fetish?) for trying to use globally despised mechanics in a way that people will like. My last game had way too many masons and a flavor-reveal mechanic. With this one I tried recruitment and survivors. Less successfully, methinks.

2. Post restrictions that deny communication... Invariably, players will find a way to communicate with this player, via code.

That was kinda the point. I figured that it was a pretty believable PR that would be obvious on D1 and easily confirmed through investigation. The whole idea was to have a player that traded communicating in code for confirmed townie status, but it didn't work out that way.

3. Overall game balance.

I've thought about this a lot over the weeks, and I think I might agree with you. Not really sure though. One correct lynch or SK NK completely removes the scum's ability to recruit. One correct scum NK ends the game for the SK. And Xtoxm's role meant that a mass weapon claim would almost guarentee town the win.

I think it speaks highly of the balance that it came down to a 3-man endgame and that the SK only won because she used her one-shot properly. Then again, if the scum had been using their NKs, things could have been far worse (or better) for the town, so it's really hard to tell.

Like I said in the queue post, the game was expected to be swingy. I'll certainly keep your advice in mind for next time though.

Also, what did Mitey do to get modkilled?

Using back-to-back posts to get around the restriction. And she'd already gotten clarification and warnings for other transgressions.

[Goatrevolt]

Like I said in the queue post, the game was expected to be swingy. I'll certainly keep your advice in mind for next time though.

I'll agree that the game was definitely going to be swingy. However, I think it had more opportunities to swing away from the town than towards it. While the game certainly could have swung better for the town, it could have also swung quite a bit worse. What if Crywolf/Jebus had not been night killed, and those had been townies instead? What if Xtoxm had been shot night 1 instead of tekkactus, and we didn't get his information to figure out the setup? That could have resulted in disaster.

I think the game actually played out fairly balanced in terms of how swingy it was. Scum got off a successful recruitment, and SL burned an entire lynch with her ability, which was harmful, but on the other hand Militant blocked a kill, Clockwork declined a recruitment, and Jebus/Crywolf got NKed. I think the mafia could have been quite a bit more brutal with their night abilities if they had killed first and gone for the recruitment later, as well.

I think the only way the town has much of a chance in this game is for the SK to get crosskilled by the mafia. Even if you catch the SK early, it takes 2 days to kill it, which means the town has very limited time/resources towards stopping the mafia afterwards. Add on a survivor who doesn't care who dies as long as it's not them and it becomes a tall order to overcome.

LOL. I have this thing (fetish?) for trying to use globally despised mechanics in a way that people will like.

Heh. I think the way you handled the recruitment was far more balanced than cults generally are, but I still dislike the principle of recruitment itself. I think the recruitment this game could have gone far worse for the town. All EA/Jebus needed to do was to kill early in the game and then wait until later to recruit someone who was practically confirmed by that point and they're golden. It's why I said that I felt 2 mafia + recruitment to be stronger than 3 mafia. Smart recruitment can nab a player who had previously been confirmed town by a cop or some other means and guarantee a win.

I'm still not sure what I would have done if I had been recruited after EA's death. At that point I was practically confirmed town, but was also a NK target. I probably would have declined it out of principle and because I felt convinced the town could win.

I still feel we made the right choice in lynching Huntress. We couldn't have known that SL had an ability to endgame screw us, and it's always better to go for the guaranteed scum first. With Xtoxm's information, Huntress was almost 100% guaranteed to be scum. Combine that with the possibility that recruiting was still possible from the cult and our decision was easy.

[Goatrevolt]

I am interested to know what people think of the barber-mate combo in place of a cop. It had its drawbacks, but I thought it did the job of giving town a really big advantage if the two players found a way to work together. I know Goat commented on this ingame, but I'd still like to read people's opinions.

I thought it was a good idea. I've always liked analyzing game setups and trying to piece together exactly what happened based on bits and pieces from here and there. I think it was a cool design. It's generally less powerful than a cop (if one of them dies the combo is weakened), but I'm not a huge fan of cops anyway. Actually, it might have been better than a cop in this setup simply because of the "clearing a player then later having them get recruited" drawback.

You should use this idea again. Combine two weaker information roles that can combine to create a powerful team. Maybe a captain planet themed mafia? I call /in on heart!

[springlullaby]

Well, I liked this game.

The flavor was very nice. Balance-wise, I think it was ok, I've played in more scum heavy mini which resulted in a town win (Darkstalkers mafia). The only thing that may have been harsh was MM's PR, she was pretty much a scum bait. But town was pretty powerful, what with Xtoxm's role being an automatic one and the multi doc abilities.

I think that ultimatly town lose because it played very badly the first couple of days, giving scum a lot of ammo. And I think I won because there was always someone scummier than me.


Things which worked for me:

The one thing which helped me the most was the other scum team not playing their cards to their advantage and being really scummy. The cult scare made the SK background noise (turned out they weren't much of a cult at all), and there is EA's move on Goat which was pretty bizarre.

The massclaim, that was pretty much a really bad move for town as it permitted me to target militant, who was the single biggest menace to me as he could have isolated me as the obv SK.

Town disbelieving my being scum with my claim, then subsequently town disbelieving that I could have that power after it was clear I was SK. I think Huntress could have seen that one coming as she knew that her scumteam had multi-abilities, had she pressed the point I'm sure Goat would have been easily persuaded to lynch me first, and Xtoxm could have been convinced eventually.

Thing which worked against me and gave me a scare:

Potates' meta confirming Goat as not the SK. I sent complaint PM's to the mod for this one. D5 was already very thin air threading for me, then I discover the meta and thought it so very unfair because Goat was the perfect scapegoat (ha) for the SK role, and I'm sure Xtoxm was already pretty distrusting of him.

Originally what I thought with my claim was that I could use it if it looked like I was going to get lynched, and retcon the day after by saying that I though I was already hammered, that I misread my PM and that twilight was the last timeslot I could use it. The fact that my power worked should have lent me some town point, and I think I could have persuaded people to lynch Goat as the SK.

The meta clearing Goat left me without a lifeline and made me preserving my oneshot essential.

Note on scumplay:

OMGUS, with a side-dish of buddying up to Xtoxm was the best thing I did as day strategy. Sometimes I thought I was being too obvious, I pretty much attacked every single player who raised a voice against me, but it worked in undermining my attackers and I think had I been more placating, it would have worked against me. In Clock's case I think it worked because he dismissed me as scum after our D2 exchange.

I also really liked the moment I thought up the word 'coercion' in defending against Goat, I think the emotional charge of the word gave him pause.


All in all, this game was a well thought out and original setup. It is kinda unfortunate for town that they didn't get more experienced players from the start.

[springlullaby]

I still feel we made the right choice in lynching Huntress. We couldn't have known that SL had an ability to endgame screw us, and it's always better to go for the guaranteed scum first. With Xtoxm's information, Huntress was almost 100% guaranteed to be scum. Combine that with the possibility that recruiting was still possible from the cult and our decision was easy.

But you see, had Clockwork investigated once, with Xtoxm's role, I would have been burned scum far earlier.

I'm glad I didn't try to kill him earlier, as I figured he would be protected. I'm also glad I was aggressive toward him D2, because I think it was at this point that he dismissed me as scum.

Seriously, his investigation of Goat N4 was pretty much a throwaway, as it had already been established in thread that Goat couldn't be scum. This queer choice of investigation is also what made me target him N5 as it didn't make sense and made me think he was the remaining cult.

I think town had a lot of cards but suffered from inexperience.

[springlullaby]

1. Recruitment. I personally despise this mechanic

LOL. I have this thing (fetish?) for trying to use globally despised mechanics in a way that people will like. My last game had way too many masons and a flavor-reveal mechanic. With this one I tried recruitment and survivors. Less successfully, methinks.

Nah, I think pitting SK against a cult is the correct decision every time. It's natural enmity, SK don't want to be outscummed, cult don't want their member to be decimated, which always work in favour of town.

I got really lucky with the Jebus kill.

[springlullaby]

Oh yeah, my role was waaay cool. Thanks mod for the game.

And this should prove once and for all that ninjas are vastly superior to pirates :p

[Ythill]

Yeah, I was surprised nobody mentioned "ninja" when people figured out there was a SK.

You should use this idea again. Combine two weaker information roles that can combine to create a powerful team. Maybe a captain planet themed mafia? I call /in on heart!

Sadly, I won't have time to mod another game until late summer. We're going on the road in April or May and will be completely out of touch with the internet until sometime in August.

Besides, I've already got new games planned. A very unique mini-theme is on the drawing board (it will include a double-elimination mechanic), as is a large Star Wars themed game which, I suppose, could include a pair of matched information roles.

[Goatrevolt]

The massclaim, that was pretty much a really bad move for town as it permitted me to target militant, who was the single biggest menace to me as he could have isolated me as the obv SK.

Mass claim seemed pretty bad for the town. Now that the game's over, I'll admit that I didn't even read your post before posting my reasons for not liking mass claim. I merely skimmed through the thread and saw people clamoring for mass claim and wrote a paniced NO! post. The fact that they ended up being the same (what other reasons are there?) brought about an interesting dynamic. At any rate, I think it worked out in my favor, as that interaction was mainly what caused me to view both you and EA as scum.

Town disbelieving my being scum with my claim, then subsequently town disbelieving that I could have that power after it was clear I was SK. I think Huntress could have seen that one coming as she knew that her scumteam had multi-abilities, had she pressed the point I'm sure Goat would have been easily persuaded to lynch me first, and Xtoxm could have been convinced eventually.

Your claim threw me off at first, because I misunderstood how it worked. I think it was an excellent claim, though, because the role as you claimed it was not something you'd see on scum, and it's also an entirely confirmable role.

Potates' meta confirming Goat as not the SK. I sent complaint PM's to the mod for this one. D5 was already very thin air threading for me, then I discover the meta and thought it so very unfair because Goat was the perfect scapegoat (ha) for the SK role, and I'm sure Xtoxm was already pretty distrusting of him.

Originally what I thought with my claim was that I could use it if it looked like I was going to get lynched, and retcon the day after by saying that I though I was already hammered, that I misread my PM and that twilight was the last timeslot I could use it. The fact that my power worked should have lent me some town point, and I think I could have persuaded people to lynch Goat as the SK.

The meta clearing Goat left me without a lifeline and made me preserving my oneshot essential.

Oh. I knew what you were going for. I laughed long and hard at what must have been an "Oh shit" moment when you realized I couldn't actually be the SK. I guess you got the last laugh in the end, though.

I also really liked the moment I thought up the word 'coercion' in defending against Goat, I think the emotional charge of the word gave him pause.

. That was pretty nasty. It wasn't the emotional charge of the word as much as the idea it gave to other players. After you said that, I had to back down because I was still on the plate for lynching that day. I was worried my "coercive nature" was going to be enough to convince some of the on-the-fence players to go ahead with my lynch.

Seriously, his investigation of Goat N4 was pretty much a throwaway, as it had already been established in thread that Goat couldn't be scum. This queer choice of investigation is also what made me target him N5 as it didn't make sense and made me think he was the remaining cult.

There were a lot of cards on the table against Clockwork. His role, his investigation choices, even the claim that he could deny recruitment seemed off. After I escaped lynching on day 3, I read through the game during that night phase and came to the realization that Clockwork simply didn't make sense as scum behaviorally. Some of his earlier interactions (day 1) with EA and Jebus really seemed weird if they were scum together. I kept a little pressure on him day 4 just in case I was wrong, but I think he answered those questions fine. Xtoxm was fairly obviously town the moment he swung the tables to get EA lynched instead of me.

I got really lucky with the Jebus kill.

Was I correct in saying you killed him simply because he was suspicious of you? Or was there another reason?

Besides, I've already got new games planned. A very unique mini-theme is on the drawing board (it will include a double-elimination mechanic), as is a large Star Wars themed game which, I suppose, could include a pair of matched information roles.

Let me know when these games are going to start. Despite my sour grapes and setup gripes, I really enjoyed the game and would like to play in another of your games.

[Goatrevolt]

Yeah, I was surprised nobody mentioned "ninja" when people figured out there was a SK.

I'm ashamed I didn't think of it. I was actually wondering how a SK would fit the flavor, and completely didn't even consider the pirate v. ninja thing.

[Xtoxm]

I didn't think of Ninja's, I thought it was someone forced to work on the ship against their will...I know this was very common in the days of pirating.

[springlullaby]

There were a lot of cards on the table against Clockwork. His role, his investigation choices, even the claim that he could deny recruitment seemed off. After I escaped lynching on day 3, I read through the game during that night phase and came to the realization that Clockwork simply didn't make sense as scum behaviorally. Some of his earlier interactions (day 1) with EA and Jebus really seemed weird if they were scum together. I kept a little pressure on him day 4 just in case I was wrong, but I think he answered those questions fine. Xtoxm was fairly obviously town the moment he swung the tables to get EA lynched instead of me.

I didn't mean he played badly, but I was looking for the CL who wasn't there, and he came off as the scummiest. I think, after he claimed, he got sucked into that state of indecision and worrying more about his night actions than scumhunting. Strangely enough, the ability to refuse the recruitment never made me doubt Clockwork, it just didn't make sense for him to reveal the cult when no one knew.

Was I correct in saying you killed him simply because he was suspicious of you? Or was there another reason?

Yes, though I thought she had a strong chance of being scum too, I also genuinely believed you had a big chance of being cult due to the Huntress no-lynch when I tried to kill you.

Note, due to my role at the beginning of the game, I actually thought that it would be a ninja vs pirates things with multiple SK's. And ridiculously enough, I killed Tekkactus because of this post:
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 25#1326125
The 'high frequency' thing struck me as ninja-ish , plus the low posting.

-------------------------

Note on the setup. Now I'm thinking giving the town a vig or a oneshot vig could have been nice without it being unbalanced, and I was actually expecting one. Give more edge to the SK's priority of kill ability. The parrot could have been a oneshot vig to reward them. And the flavour could have to be something along the line of it pecking a guys' eyes out , and them comically throwing themselves overboard in pain and panic as a result.

[Goatrevolt]

I also genuinely believed you had a big chance of being cult due to the Huntress no-lynch when I tried to kill you.

Meh, I combated that style of argument in game, and I firmly disagree with this line of thought. Trying to pair players before you know an alignment is wrong. Case in point, you thought I was scum because of my interactions with Huntress, who you thought was Cult. At the time, we were both town. If you had instead waited until Huntress' alignment was revealed (assuming of course she hadn't been recruited) you would have known this to be a flawed argument. You're playing one step ahead. You're trying to enact step 2 without actually knowing if step one is successful or not.

Logically, it isn't sound.

If A, then B (If Huntress is cult, then goat is also Cult)
If B, then C (If goat is cult, we lynch him).

You can't do C without knowing the results of A. That's not even mentioning the idea that B doesn't necessarily follow A. (If Huntress is cult, that doesn't necessarily mean I'm cult, it just means she wanted a no lynch).


I do agree with you about the vig. Drop the survivor, and give the town a 1 shot vig and I'll call it a day.

[springlullaby]

Well, the trick with arguments when you are scum is that it is not whether you think they are good ones that is important, but whether you think you can get away with them. Carrying them off with assurance is a bonus to mislead peoples' town reading. Which are the basic rules to lying really.

When I'm town I'm actually wary of scumlinks arguments even after one flipped scum, too easy to manipulate and too easy to get distracted by.

[Ythill]

I considered a vig, but I was afraid of the D1 mass kill. As it was, lynching the man-at-arms before two scum-kills would have left four dead before D2. Even a one-shot vig could have made it five, and would have made four a lot more likely. I suppose I could have limited his kill to even numbered nights or given him a one-shot after D2...

[Goatrevolt]

I considered a vig, but I was afraid of the D1 mass kill. As it was, lynching the man-at-arms before two scum-kills would have left four dead before D2. Even a one-shot vig could have made it five, and would have made four a lot more likely. I suppose I could have limited his kill to even numbered nights or given him a one-shot after D2...

Hm...yeah. You did say it was a swingy game though!

When I'm town I'm actually wary of scumlinks arguments even after one flipped scum, too easy to manipulate and too easy to get distracted by.

I place a large emphasis on connections to dead scum. I have correctly cleared townies on a couple of occasions based on how they interacted with scum in the random phase. In this game, for example, I deliberated a while on the meaning of Clockwork Ruse voting and FoSing EA and Jebus in his first post of the game. A scum buddy over eager to bus, or a townie who randomly hit both scum in his first post? I eventually decided on the latter one, especially based on the way Jebus/EA were all to happy to be on CR's wagon later in the day. Too much early busing for them to make sense as scum together.