The Werewolves of Millers Hollow (Game Over)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Seriously? Scum with lynch immunity seems like such a bad idea...I mean, Flay tried it in that Lost Boys game, kind of, in a very limited sense, but even there I think it was a really bad idea.Jahudo wrote:I don't buy X's claim. I've heard of Unlynchable as both a town and scum role anyway.
I'd be in favor of testing X's claim today. Frankly, my biggest concern would be that we lynch him and find out he was just a vanillia townie claiming a role he dosn't actually have.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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If he's not unlynchable, then lynching him probably nails us a scum; like I said, his meta makes me worry that there's a chance that he's lying town, but if he's lying about his role I still think we have to assume that would make him more likely scum then town. Lynching a liar is usually a good thing.The Fonz wrote:Does not compute, Yos.
If he's not unlynchable, there's no pressing need to lynch him now.
If he is, it's a complete waste.
And if he is unlynchable, then lynching him today confirms his role, which gives us useful information. Plus, lynching him today means we spend our day 1 lynch to test his claim, rather then, say, our day 4 lynch; as the town is much more likely to hit scum day 4 then day 1, I'd much rather test his claim today, if we're ever going to test his claim.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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(shrug) If there's a good case on someone, if I'm pretty convinced that they're scum, I'd be in favor of lynching them instead; I'm always pragmatic about such things.The Fonz wrote:So let's say we've got a couple of middling wagons, a couple of people making cases... everyone's supposed to drop their cases and just vote Xtoxm?
For the most part, though, I think lynching Xtoxm today has a much better risk/reward payoff then most day 1 lynches do.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Izzy: In general, for a scum, voting is more dangerous then not voting, all else being equal; it makes it easier for the town to figure stuff out, either if you get caught, or if one of your scum-buddies gets caught, or if you are in favor of mislynching too many townies, ect. So, in general, I tend to find "not voting" a little bit scummier then "voting"; basically, I tend to think that in most situations the "agressive" types of behaviors (Voting, leading bandwagons, attacking people, being agressive in general) are something that, ignoring the WIFOM, is generally a better play for pro-town people then for scum.
That's just a general case; it's not always very STRONG scumtell, since individual variations tend to be much greater then alignment variations, but in general the point Fonz/BM are making here is a valid one.
Do you think you have a general meta of not voting much, early on, Izzy?I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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I don't really know yet; need to hear more from him about why he claimed and such. I don't really know why he would lie, unless he just really wants to be mayor that badly, but I don't really have any idea how Xtoxm to act yet in any situation, other then that he apparently has a history of making up wierd claims for no apparent reason.The Fonz wrote:Guys. I want everyone to post their current opinion on the following question, be it based on gut, meta, whatever.
Do you feel that Xtoxm is lying to us?
Let's just say that considering his history of fake claims, and considering how rare the role he's claiming is, I think there's a fairly good chance he's lying. I just wish I was sure that he was "either telling the truth or scum", since the worse case scenerio would be we lynch him and he actually dies because he was lying but he was town.
Xtoxm: If you are lying but town, feel free to withdraw your claim, ASAP; at this point, it would probably improve your odds of not being lynched today, oddly enough.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Wait...why?Percy wrote: As I already pointed out, if you had that role, the most protown thing for you to do would be to claim it early (like a miller role).
If you had a miller role, it makes perfect sense to claim it day 1, because otherwise a cop investigation is horrible.
On the other hand, I see no reason to claim a "unlynchable" role day 1, at all. If you're about to get lynched, then sure, might as well claim first; short of that, why bother. Unnecessarary claims are almost always bad for the town, and the claim seems completly unnecessary to me.
So, why do you think unlynchable is a claim that should be made early day 1, exactally?I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Ok, but there's a fair amount of stuff that's happened already in this game, especally xtoxm's claim and the various reactions to it, and I'd be interested to hear what you think about it all, as soon as possible.Mufasa wrote:My vote for myself is because I don't fear a lynch, and for now it is a place holder as I am transiting into the new game and wrapping up the old game.
Also, is there any specific reason you're voting Fonz for mayor?I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Um, no. You should often claim if you're about to be lynched. A claim like that woudn't necessarally stop a lynch, but it wouldn't really matter much at that point anyway; plus then no one would be surprised when lynching you causes a no-lynch.Percy wrote:@Yos: If you claim that ability while under investigation for scumminess, it is far less likely to be believed.
On the other hand, if you don't have a reason to claim, you don't. Period. Claiming without reason is anti-town.
That's a completly different situation. Miller probably should claim early, because otherwise a cop investigation might be wasted, and a cop outed, and all that. On the other hand, there is absolutly no reason for a "lynch immune" guy to claim this early.Just like claiming millerafteran investigation on you is less likely to be believed, even if it's actually true.
Well, his claim would probably be tested.Let me put it another way. He claimed unlynchable, and now many players want to kill him, just for that. If he was already looking scummy andthenclaimed unlynchable, he would be put down like a dog, even if he was protown.
Scummy comment.If he's some kind of Jester role, we shouldn't lynch him.fos
Well, yeah. You are.This looks like I'm defending Xtomx, which is really not where I want to be.
Why did the claim "have to come out", exactally?I just think that the claim had to come out, and I'm glad it came out now, and we should be looking at his playstyle rather than policy lynching him based on his claim.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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That's an interesting theory, Fonz, but personally, all I'm worried about is getting someone as mayor who's not scum, so I'm pretty much just going to vote for someone who I think looks most pro-town (or myself, but I don't really expect to be elected mayor today and that's fine).The Fonz wrote:
Oh, I don't think I'd be terrible as mayor or anything. But, my objection to me as mayor is basically the same as my objection to Yos as mayor. Myself and Yos will produce enough content and be prominent enough for y'all to get a read on regardless.Jahudo wrote: I got the feeling that Fonz didn't want to be mayor. The Fonz, is it just you don't think you would be a good mayor, or you don't want to accept mayor?
I'd rather it went to someone who has good ideas, but is characteristically a bit more reticent, and unused to being in the spotlight. The advantages of this is a) a player who is pretty good, but can sometimes be ignored gets more chance to influence things and b) it's easier for the rest of us to get a read on said player. So, in my mind that's win-win whether that player is town or scum. I have no particular fear of a scum mayor (quite difficult for a scum to know how to play it) unless that player is a noted manipulator, like you-know-who.
In my mind, a town mayor, no matter who it is, would be at best a small bonus to the town; while a scum mayor, especally as they coudl be mayor for the rest of the game, could be absolutly disastorous; every lynch the scum would have a better chance to get a mislynch, and in endgame the game could basically end a full day earlier then normal.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Eh...I donno, even at this early stage, an extra vote for the scum can be pretty bad. I mean, what you're saying makes sense, but I generally consider double-voter to be an ability that is pretty weak for a pro-town person but really, really dangerous in the hands of a scum. And, honestly, I'm not really sure about your logic here; are you really suggesting that if the mayor dosn't lynch scum in the first few days we'll just automatically lynch him for it?The Fonz wrote:I think the risk of a scum mayor is overrated. At least, at this early stage. Whoever is mayor will be under particular pressure to scumhunt successfully. I don't see how it's possible a scum mayor could survive to endgame without some serious bussing- and if they want to bus, that's fine by me.
I do agree about the risk of an illogical town player being mayor, in any case.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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You know, I'm getting tired of WIFOMing Xtoxm's stuff back and fourth here with absolutely no input from him.
Let's let him come back and answer some of the questions about him, explain his role in a little more detail, ect. If he dosn't do so in the next few days, I'll probably vote him just for lurking at this point.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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...I'm sorry, perhaps it's because it's late, but I have no idea what you're talking about. There are some people who agree with me about Xtoxm, and Fonz seems to disagree with me.Firestarter wrote: So far, up to post 146, Yosarian2 is not taking any of the other players thoughts on Xtomx's claim whatsoever.
In particular, the Miller role. Why is Yos trying so hard to convince everyone else they're wrong about this?
Also, what miller role? Xtoxm didn't claim miller; no one claimed miller. What are you talking about?
Sure, but worst of all is scum as mayor elected day 1 and then staying mayor all game. I don't know why people keep acting like that's impossible, it certanly is not.Scum as mayor early in game is less of a benefit than scum being Mayor late in the game. Particularly if the scum-lynched so far is low.
Anyway, I'm still happy with my Fonz vote for mayor at the moment.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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[quote="Percy" That said, saying that a vanilla townie should wish for death is ridiculous. A vanilla townie can be so much more beneficial to the town (in the long run) than a powerrole, given the right play and the right player. One townie can be better than another. [/quote]
Wishing for death, no.
Wishing to get nightkilled by scum, absoltuly. Unless a town role gets really lucky, scum kill someone every night. If you are a vanillia townie, you WANT that someone to be you, rather then a power role.
I was attacking Xtoxm. You, and Zwert, were defending him. If he comes up scum, then you both are scummy as anything.So, Fonz, do you think Yosarian is as scummy as me for making his statement? How about the others I quoted? If not, why not?
"IT'S ALL WIFOM" is a crappy reason to demand that other people unvote someone who's only action all game has been a fairly unlikely (and completly anti-town, since there was absolutly no reason for it) claim and demands that he be elected mayor.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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[quote="Dr Pepper"
@ Yosarian2: Giving scummy players a power (ie mayor) only becomes harmful if it is used without our knowledge. Having a double vote is like waving a giant sign around saying "hey guys look at me!" and having that much attention on scum is generally not the best plan.[/quote]
(shrug) If a scum knows what he's doing, if he knows when to distance, when to bus, and when to lynch a townie, then giving him more power to do so only makes him more dangerous.
Or, to put it another way; tommorow, if there's 10 people alive, it would normally be 6 votes to lynch. If there are 3 scum alive, then you still need at least 3 townies on the wagon to lynch. HOWEVER, if one of those scum is a double-voter, then they can push a bad lynch with only 2 townies on their side; or, conversely, they can get a mislynch while less scum need to actually be on the wagon, which makes it harder to find the scum.
And it only gets worse later in the game.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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(shakes head) An extra vote can make a big dfference. In any case, there is absolutly no advantage to giving an extra vote to someone you think is scummy. Zero. Zilch. Nothing. We don't need to make someone mayor in order to keep an eye on them; if you think someone is scummy, then you should keep an eye on him and on who he votes for anyway.Firestarter wrote:1.The Power is not the Mayors, its Towns. The Mayor simply has a double vote which is pretty useless at this stage of the game.
This whole plan of yours is kind of crazy. "Let's take someone we think is scummy, and give him more power, so we get more paranoid about the person." If the mayor is town, then that paranoia you're pushing is just more likely to screw us over, and if the mayor is scum, then giving him power is a bad idea.
And remember, the mayor has two powers. One is the double vote, the other is the power to pick the next mayor if they die. Those are BOTH powers we REALLY don't want the scum to have, at all, ever, at any point in the game.
Meh. An extra vote still matters.2.The fact is there's 21 people alive, not 10. which makes it alotHARDERfor scum to do what your saying.
If scum get control of the mayorship at ANY point of the game, it's bad. And the town can never really get it back; the scum would either be able to give it to another scum, or give it to a townie he wants to WIFOM the rest of the town into lynch, preferably a townie that he knows will give the mayorship to his scumbuddy.3.Exactly. If scum gain control of Mayorship late in the game, then that is disastrous.
The whole thing is just a bad, bad idea. The obvious stratagy of "We give the mayorship to someone who looks really, really townie, and try to keep it out of the hands of the scum" just seems much, much better, from every point of view.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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If there are 5 scum, then giving one an extra vote increases the scum's day power by 20%. That is bloody HUGE. Why you keep trying to say it's useless?Firestarter wrote:All Im hearing is WIFOM from both of you, and that scum will get extra power... however useless it is right now.
A lot of people underestimate the power of the scum voting block, but it's very significant even early game, since they have information and CAN work together when townies can't. Increasing that power, even on day 2, would be a very bad thing.
"Hey, you know, if we lynch a player who looks scummy, we might be wrong. Why not lynch someone who looks pro-town instead!"But.. cannot the same thing happen voting in a player who seems pro-town?
<-------this is what you are arguing here.
If we try to nominate someone who looks pro-town to be mayor, we may be right, or we may be wrong. If we try to nominate someone who is pro-town but screw up and nominate someone who is scum instead, then later, we can look back and see who was trying to argue that that person is pro-town and if they had good logic, ect ect. It's useful infromation, but not if we do it your way.
Anyway, I certanly would hope that us trying to nominate pro-town people to be mayor would have better odds of actually getting a pro-town mayor then if we try to nominate a scum for mayor; that seems pretty obvious to me.
No, dude.But your WIFOM arguments are nothing but mere... WIFOM.
"Giving scum more power is bad" is NOT a wifom argument, at all. Not even a little bit.
It's not that people "don't understand where you're coming from", it's that you are proposing a plan that is very anti-town, period. I'm not surprised you're drawing votes for it; suggesting plans that would hurt the town and help the scum if put into effect will tend to make people suspicious of your motives, for obvious reasons.Voting me to lynch is a an easy thing to do, and too simplistic.
You both do not understand where Im coming from, thats fine.
Why?VOTE 4 LYNCH: Dingoatemybaby
Enough info for me.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Only if we're dumb and let paranoia rather then sense dictate our actions.Firestarter wrote: Im also more inclined to believe that more townies will be lynched if we opt to elect them to Mayorship. This is of course, assuming they are Town.
There is absolutly no reason we should assume that a mayor making a bad vote is any more scummy then anyone else making that same vote would be; we need to evaluate the mayor just like we'd evaluate anyone else.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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(shrug) That's ok, though. I think we get the best information when we try as hard as we can to try to give it to someone who's town; then, if we fail and give it to a scum anyway, the whole wagon and all the people who argued that person looked town and why they did should be very interesting.The Fonz wrote:
Except that 'looking townie' when no-one has been lynched yet just leads you to give it to someone fairly reasonable sounding, leading to the RTP. Let's face it, scum are going to get it at some point.Yosarian2 wrote: The whole thing is just a bad, bad idea. The obvious stratagy of "We give the mayorship to someone who looks really, really townie, and try to keep it out of the hands of the scum" just seems much, much better, from every point of view.
Besides...I donno, I often get a town read on someone day 1, and it's usually pretty accurate. Not always, of course, but I bet we can do better then random, unless the scum try to really push hard to elect on of their own, and if they do that could give us information later.
I still don't think that someone being mayor will make them easier to read...it might put a little more focus on them, but that's about it. I'd think the mayor would still vote just like anyone else does, would still react the same way anyone else does.Rather than agonising infinitely over whether someone's scum, let's look at how they are likely to use it, and how much them being mayor might help us read 'em.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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(shrug) I'd vote myself, just on the general "I know I'm town" principle, but of course if we all do that we get nowhere.The Fonz wrote:Yos, can I ask you this... would you LIKE to be mayor?
That being said; meh, I wouldn't mind being mayor, but it dosn't really matter. I don't expect it would affect my play much.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Ok then, if you're not going to tell us anything else, or play the game, or have an opinion on anything, I guess we just have to lynch you and see what happens. Looks like that's the only way we're going to get any info on you...Xtoxm wrote:No
Vote to lynch:XtoxmI want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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(shrug) He claimed just enough to hurt the town, and yet is refusing to clarify, or claim flavor, or actually play the game. So, yeah, I think we pretty much are forced to lynch him unless he changes his behavior. Do you disagree?zwetschenwasser wrote:He's not forcing anything, Yos. Opportunistic much?I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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I would reccomend against going off the "he's trying too hard to be lynched, we'd better not lynch him" WIFOM cliff here.Shadow Knight wrote:I think Xtoxm is trying too hard to GET lynched. This automatically makes me want to *not* lynch him.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Shadow Knight: If a jester wins or loses, it has absolutly no effect on the town's win condition, at all. Not even a little. In fact, generally, if someone *claims* jester, you *still* want to lynch them ASAP, just because you don't want to risk a jester getting into a lynch or lose situation where he votes himself, the scum votes him, and town loses. Besides which, jesters are incredibly rare on this site. ALmost every game, someone act scummy, and someone else says "BUT WHAT IF HE'S A JESTER???". First of all, he's almost certanly not; they're way too rare for that. And second of all, we don't care anyway. So that's why jester speculation is just a bad idea.
Anyway, moving on:
That dosn't make any sense. Why would the scum want to nightkill someone when there's a good chance that if they don't the town will use a lynch on him? Plus, are you now assuming he's not scum?Shadow Knight wrote:So we're agreed on the necessity for his death. We just need to agree on the method. I don't want to lynch him because I think the scum will kill him for us.
Now, if we lynch him and he dosn't die, thus semi-confirming his claim, *then* the scum *might* want to nightkill him, since he could be considered semi-confirmed by that point and thus a threat. But, in that case, we'll have gone an entire day/night cycle, and only lost Xtoxm (if there's only one killing scum group, anyway.) That's not bad, especally if other town power roles get a chance to do stuff.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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It's pretty darn unlikely, IMHO, for balance reasons. I would have said impossible, but that assumption bit me on the ass in Lost Boys mafia, when the cult recruiter claimed unlynchable; if he actually had been lynched, his "bodyguard" would have died instead of him. Still, a scum who, if you lynch him, he dosn't die? That seems terribly unbalanced; for one thing, it means if he gets into a 3 man endgame, he automatically wins, and that's a game design problem, IMHO. And that's just if he's 1 shot lynch immune. A scum who is completly lynch immune really is impossble, because that would mean that if the vig dies night 1 and that guy is still alive, the town just autoloses, which is horrible game design.MikeSC6 wrote: It's quite plain that Xtoxm isn't trying to survive- he can't be both lynch and nightkill immune, and I still think it's scummy that he tried to trick us into thinking a failed lynch would make him a confirmed townie. Is an unlynchable scum-player just too unlikely?I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Actually, I'd feel better about him if he claims ASAP, before reading the thread.Shadow Knight wrote:Lets give him the chance to read 18 pages and catch up on the crapstorm his predecessor started.
MILLAR: Please claim in full, including rolename, right now.
About the mayor thing; as I said, I wouldn't mind being mayor, but I'm pretty happy with my vote on Fonz for the mayor right now; based on his posting, he looks very pro-town to me right now. Plus, the fact that he dosn't seem to want to be mayor is actually a point in his favor from my point of view, heh.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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There is absolutly no reason he should do that.Gorrad wrote: In that case, my vote stays. I don't see why Xtoxm-vanilla would claim unlynchable. It makes no sense at all unless he was trying to gamble and draw a NK, in which case he'd try to convince us not to vote him and call off the gambit at the end.
However, he does that kind of crap fairly often. I even said, at one point, that the only thing that worried me was the chance that Xtoxm might be a vanillia fakeclaiming unlynchable for absolutly no reason. So I actually think there's a reasonable chance Millar is telling the truth, sad to say.
Of course, being a claimed vanillia who lied about about his role at least once, he's still a reasonable lynch. It's just not a slam dunk.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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millar13 wrote:Okay I admit I am not a vanilla townie
I guess that...we'll find out your real role after we lynch you.millar13 wrote:I will give you five guesses, and then if you don't get it right I will tell you. This replacement is a farce, and my former should have been mod killed
Vote to lynch:MillarI want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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"Tell me your role right now or die" is not "rolefishing", zwet.zwetschenwasser wrote:Yos blatantly rolefished last page, and noone noticed.
I was actually trying to find a reason to NOT lynch Xtoxm/Millar. Millar completly failed to give me one, so I voted him.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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I'm actually somewhat suspicious of the way Zwet has been acting in the last few pages. He defends Xtoxm hardcore for much of the day, attacks me for asking him to claim...then tries to hammer him not long afterwards? All while trying to set it up so I'll look bad for "rolefishing" if Xtoxm/Millar comes up town? What, exactally, were you trying to accomplish with that series of actions, Zwet?I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Really? Huh. I had read this mod post the other way:zwetschenwasser wrote:Yos, BM is right about the votes.
Haschel Cedricson wrote:Today you must elect a Mayor by majority vote. Do this by postingVote PLAYER for Mayor. You may unvote this if you wish. The Mayor's vote will be worth two for the rest of the game. Should the Mayor die, they may choose their successor. The day will not end until both a Mayor has been elected and a player has been lynched.
But I guess it's kind of ambiguas.MOD: Is Xtoxm/Millar now lynched, or is he only dead if he's got a majority when the day ends? If he is lynched, do we get to find out his alignment now, or only after we pick a mayor?I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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You know, all you had to do is say:millar13 wrote:I win with the town! GO TOWN!
and there is a very good chance you would have been believed and not lynched; it makes sense, and I wouldn't have been at all surprised to hear that Xtoxm told a half truth. If you win with the town, then I'm not sure why you did all that stuff yesterday...Xtoxm told a half truth; if I get lynched, I won't die, but I'll basically be tree stumped; I will be able to post, but I won't be able to vote and won't count towards the vote count. My role name is "village idiot".I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Hmmm...interesting to see you get so defensive.zwetschenwasser wrote:Anscumone wanting to get in my face about double hammering yesterday?
Anyway, I really don't entirly understand why you defended Xtoxm/Millar all day but then hammered him anyway. Could you explain? The only explination you gave yesterday was that you "enjoy hammering" and that dosn't do it for me.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Your general role is confirmed. Your alignment is not; you may have some strange kind of role with a win condition other then "You win when the threat of lycanthropy is eliminated".millar13 wrote:If you think about it....I am the only pro-town player that i confirmed, although I have no vote. Therefore, if I start playing properly I can be a huge asset. Only opposition to the town, are going to discredit me in an attempt to reduce the town further.
That being said, you most likely are pro-town, and I'm interested to hear what you have to say.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Hmm. It is a good point, actually. Also, in the death scene:Jahudo wrote:
You have a point there. In the OP both your role and Shadow Knight's role are listed in blue. Typically a third party is a different color.millar13 wrote:Noticed I am the same colour as the other town players?
So, yeah; we basically should consider millar a "tree-stumped" townie at this point, I think.Haschel Cedricson wrote: Wait! You recognize where you've seen millar13 before! Why, he's just the! Surely somebody so simple couldn't possibly be a werewolf!Village IdiotI want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Lol. Battle mage is a guy.Mufasa wrote:my bad didnt realize battle mage was a female character
dingoatemybaby: Why? Voting someone until they start acting in a pro-town way is a perfectly reasonable way to act. Lurking is anti-town, and the town should never let people get away with lurking, and instead put pressure on them until they start scumhunting and start playing properly. The vote, and the threat, makes perfect sense to me.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Anyway, I'm currenlty leaning towards either lynching one of the lurkers, like Zoneace, or lynching Zwet for general wierdness involving the millar wagon yesterday.
Vote:Zoneace
Remember, I'm a doublevoter, so I think he has...3 votes on him now? Something like that?I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Because lynching lurkers is basically always a good idea, or at least a good place to put your vote while waiting for something better.zwetschenwasser wrote:Why lynch lurkers? He's getting replaced soon.
If he gets replaced, that's one thing. But if he comes back, he should do so with a significant amount of pressure on him to start making real content ASAP or die.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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[quote="Percy"
Also, the WIFOM surrounding millar hasnotgone. People are still talking about whether we can assume he's a stumped townie or something more malevolent. [/quote]
Eh...didn't the mod basically tell us he was pro-town in his post?I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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At that point, him claiming would have only helped the town, it would have not hurt the scum. For one thing, if he had given a full, detailed, and honest claim at that point of both role and name, he might not have been lyched.zwetschenwasser wrote:Wrong percy, he was at L-3 when yos asked for a claim. Read more closely next time.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Percy: But...the mod told us millar is pro-town. Not only did he post his name in blue in two different places; when he was lynched, he specifically told us that millar, the village idiot, could not be a lychenthrope. I'm not sure how much clearer we need it to be...I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Um, he didn't say you "asked" him to change your vote. He said you "pushed" him to change his vote; considering the way you were attacking him for his "I won't change my vote unless..." comment, that actually seems pretty accurate to me.dingoatemybaby wrote:
And there it is again. I have not once asked Percy to change his vote. I am done giving your the benifit of the doubt. I'm done using polite language.Dr Pepper wrote: dingo earned my FoS for his repeated critisms of Percy's vote plan. His opinion was made known. It was responded to by myself repeatedly and Yos in post 649. dingo keeps pushing for Percy to change the vote style only because someone might be scumiier. I have repeatedly asked dingo to provide a better target and he hasnt. dingo is trying to get a vote changed without providing a solid reason.
Your earlier post really seemed to convey the message that you strongly disagreed with his vote and his stated intent to keep his vote there. I find it a bit odd you seem to be distancing yourself from your earlier position there now...I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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But...it's not.dingoatemybaby wrote:
My position has not changed, and Dr. Pepper's representation of my position is utterly false.Yosarian2 wrote:Um, he didn't say you "asked" him to change your vote. He said you "pushed" him to change his vote; considering the way you were attacking him for his "I won't change my vote unless..." comment, that actually seems pretty accurate to me.
Your earlier post really seemed to convey the message that you strongly disagreed with his vote and his stated intent to keep his vote there. I find it a bit odd you seem to be distancing yourself from your earlier position there now...
First of all, you didn't just say it was "bad stratagy". You specifically said that he was trying to avoid commenting on a lynch, which implies that you think he is scum because of it.
I DID say that it was bad strategy to keep you vote on a person who is not posting regardless of whatever else is going on in the game.
I DID NOT say that Percy's vote was unreasonable in and of itself.
And if you attack someone for doing X, then it is perfectly reasonable to say "You are trying to push that person into not doing X". So Pepper was entierly accurate in saying "you were trying to push Percy into removing his vote", when you attacked him for not being willing to move his vote.
Frankly, I'm starting to think you're scum at this point, possibly with Zoneace; you didn't want Percy to keep his vote on Zoneace indefinatly, but you are now trying to deny that that was your position and actually are attacking Dr. Pepper just for saying that. The only logical reason I can think of for that is if you were trying to protect Zoneace, but didn't want anyone to notice you were protecting him.
Unvote
Vote:Dingoatemybaby
(Again, remember everyone; this is a double vote.)I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Ok. So you were accusing him of trying to use a scum tactic, right? As I said, you were attacking him for the threat he made of threatening to keep his vote on Zoneace unless Zoneace started scumhunting.dingoatemybaby wrote:
Untrue. Please quote me "specifically" saying "he was trying to avoid commenting on a lynch". I said his strategy was one that could be used to avoid "committing" to an actual lynch. As I said before, it IS a strategy that I personally used in my last game to avoid committing to a lynch.Yosarian2 wrote: First of all, you didn't just say it was "bad stratagy". You specifically said that he was trying to avoid commenting on a lynch, which implies that you think he is scum because of it.
Feh. Semantics, really. Especally since Percy had not actally kept his vote on Zoneace for very long or to the exclusion of other wagons, he had mearly threatened to do so.
True. But I did NOT attack Percy for voting for Zoneace. I attacked him for the conditions he required before he would be willing to change his vote. So it is not "perfectly reasonable" to say I was pushing Percy to not vote for Zoneace. It is "perfectly reasonable" to say I was pushing for Percy to change the conditions under which he would be willing to change his vote.Yosarian2 wrote:And if you attack someone for doing X, then it is perfectly reasonable to say "You are trying to push that person into not doing X".
Oh, I don't think there was anything wrong with Percy saying that, but that's not really why I'm voting for you here.
Again, untrue. I never said Percy should not keep his vote on Zoneace for as long as it was appropriate. I said there should be conditions, other than the one Percy stated, which would cause him to change his vote.Yosarian2 wrote:you didn't want Percy to keep his vote on Zoneace indefinatly
Note too that you personally have employed the strategy I have said Percy should use. When you saw someone you believed to be acting more scummy that Zoneace, you changed your vote. Percy's strategy does not allow for that.
Isn't it funny that you voted to lynch me for my endorsement of a strategy that you, yourse4lf, employ? For reference, he was the line from Percy that I criticized. I have underlined the part that I objected to.
Percy himself understood what I was saying.Percy wrote:I am going toVote: ZONEACEuntil he comes up with some fuckingexcellentscumhunting.
Dr Pepper disliked your move, and he felt like you were trying to get Percy to move his vote off of Zoneace. Which is a competly rational reaction to your post; any reasonable person could read your post and see it as kind of a sideways way to try to discourage Percy from keeping his vote on Zoneace. You could have just defended your position or whatever and I would have been ok with it, but instead you responded with a massive over-reaction; you accused Dr Pepper of lying and of misrepresenting you, voted him, and have been attacking him since then. The degree of your response seems completly out of propotion to a rather rational and logical post by Dr Pepper, who didn't even FOS you in his initial post, and it makes me think that you may be hiding something, or that your motives may not be what you're saying they are.
Perhaps not, but "you should be willing to change your vote" could very easily mean that you don't want him to keep his vote there long enough for Zoneace to be in danger, but don't want to actually say taht. Even if that wasn't your intent, you really don't understand why other people might decide that that may have been your motivation there?Percy wrote: I don't think dingo didn't like my vote. I think he didn't like that I said I would keep it there until ZONEACE's replacement actually contributed to the game. He wasn't asking me to change it; he thought it was scummy that I wasn't willing to change it.
"You should be willing to change your vote"
is not the same as
"You should change your vote".I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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No. It should be taken to mean that your last post, where you called him a liar like 5 more times even though he was clearly not 'lying', made me more happy about my vote on you.dingoatemybaby wrote:
Should this be taken to mean you are not willing to discuss why you are voting for someone, and that once you vote there is no point in providfing you with evidence?Yosarian2 wrote:Confirm vote: Dingo
But what you have not done is explained why you think he's scum. He may or may not be right about your motives; his suspicions of you look reasonable to me, but they may or may not be right. Either way, why do you think he's scum?You claimed I reacted to Pepper by calling him a liar and voting for him when I should have defended my position. As I showed you, I corrected him is SIX separate posts before accusing him of lying. Before voting for him.
I am voting for you because you seem to be using your vote to "punish" someone for daring to question your motives, rather then using it for scumhunting; and because your general over-reactions, accuastions of "lying", and general attitude dosn't really make any sense to me from a pro-town persepective.Since your stated reason for voting for me seems to not be based on the facts of the discussion, it would be helpful if you explained why you are still voting for me.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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(sigh) Ok, let me go into more detail:dingoatemybaby wrote:
He most clearly is. I get that you didn't want to read through the discussion again. But I really encourage you to. I don't just call him a liar. I quote his lies, explain why they are lies, and back that up with direct quotes.
Dr Peppers basic summery of your argument, here:
Is completly reasonable. To be precice, A should have said "Percy said he was not going to move his vote", or something to that effect, but it was close enough for you to get what he was talking about.A) Percy is not moving his vote
B) Not moving your vote is a scum tactic
therefore the implication is drawn
C) Percy is using a scum tactic
You called A a lie, when it was actually pretty close to the truth; it wasn't precice, but since he was trying for more of a vauge summery then a actual quote, it wasn't that far off. You called B a lie, when it *is* the truth; I have no idea how you could consider that a lie at all, you pretty clearly stated that keeping your vote on a lurker is a scum tactic. And C clearly *is* implied by what you were saying; you *were* trying to imply that Percy was using a scum tactic (or was going to use a scum tactic, or was talking about using a scum tactic, or was thinking about using a scum tactic, or whatever); you WERE basically, more or less, semi-accusing Percy of being scum who wanted to keep his vote on a lurker wagon so he wouldn't have to comment on other wagons. And, again, I would be fine with you making that accusation, but I hate the way you seem to be running from your own words right now.
"Liar" is a very strong term in mafia, especally since the standard meta is "lynch all liars". When you keep repeating that someone is a "liar", when that does not seem not accurate, it makes me suspicious of you.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yeah, I'm here.
This accelerating ad hom stuff between dingo and dr pepper is really getting frustrating, and it's going to just get in the way. It's actually possible they're both town just bashing heads, but dingo's reactions seem more scummy to me and Pepper's seem more town.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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The thing is, the clarifications are what make me suspicious. It's not just that he didn't want you to keep your vote on Zoneace indefinatly, it's that he didn't seem want to ADMIT that that's what he was doing, that set off my alarm bells.Percy wrote:
Now, the first sentence is worth considering, but after dingo's repeated clarifications in game I can't see how this read might still stand. dingo started off polite, and it got worse when Dr Pepper continued to not see the point.Yosarian2 761 wrote:any reasonable person could read your post and see it as kind of a sideways way to try to discourage Percy from keeping his vote on Zoneace. You could have just defended your position or whatever and I would have been ok with it, but instead you responded with a massive over-reaction; you accused Dr Pepper of lying and of misrepresenting you, voted him, and have been attacking him since then. The degree of your response seems completly out of propotion to a rather rational and logical post by Dr Pepper, who didn't even FOS you in his initial post, and it makes me think that you may be hiding something, or that your motives may not be what you're saying they are.
When one scum is defending a scumbudy, they usually want to try to somehow discourage other people to vote for him (or to keep their vote on him, or whatever), but they don't want to LOOK like they're defending their buddy; in fact, if asked, they'll usually deny that that's what they're trying to do. And that's kind of the vibe I was getting from dingo's "clarifications".I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Hmm? What scumtell is that?zwetschenwasser wrote:Aha! The third person reference psychological scumtell in all its splendor!Unvote; Vote: Dr. Pepper
I'm curious...how is "pushing lynches" a scumtell?Mufasa wrote:I most definitely do think Dr Pepper is scum, he pushes lynches way harder than dingo has.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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I don't know about that; I usually find agressivly scumhunting, activly pushing lynches, to be more of a town tell; on average, scum tend to be more passive then town, in my experence.Mufasa wrote:Scum's want it to get to night time quicker so they push for a lynch faster.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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