Sushi Mafia! Game Over

[PieIsPopcorn]

'kay guys, confirming my role as a replacement. I'm working on a detailed catchup post. If you have any questions meanwhile, feel free to ask. Since this is a speed game. I'll be sure to get the analysis up as quickly as possible.

[PieIsPopcorn]

Post #35 (Sirdanilot) Votes hp_leaves, saying that there's "no reason for him to be alive right now". Now, it's a random vote, but I find that early game is often a great point for distancing, and random votes are no exception. Nothing about this vote strikes me as particularly odd though.

Post #49, by raider, makes no sense to me. The FoS feels rather defensive too.

Post #53 reeks of distancing. Sirdan says that he "thinks he's on to something with hp [leaves] here." Then doesn't explain why, and quickly throws in an excuse of it potentially be "page 3 paranoia".

Post #70 by raider just feels forced to me. Something about the wording.

I find it curious that Seraphim pushes twice, in #62 and #73, for a riceballtail wagon, when it's clearly based on a joke. Now, the first time was an obvjoke. But the fact that he continues to push is something I find interesting. Certainly something to keep an eye on.

Post #77 ... LOL at the selfvote. Been in way too many games on other sites where town has done this to take it particularly seriously.

Post #79 (Azhrei) is definately the most interesting reaction to the selfvote thus far. It feels like he's trying as hard as he can to post about it, without providing any sort of opinion or content on the issue.

Is it just me, or does dan's #84 seem to echo raider's #82 in spots?

Raider: I have played one too many games with another known self voter to go by a policy lynch.

sirdan: in my experience it is too minor to make it more likely for the self-voter to be scum.

Raider: Though I am interested in why RBT did that.

sirdan: So, RBT, why did you self vote? Let's hear it.

#85, Seraphim continues to push the joke...

#95- Seraphim indulges in IIoA. So, do you think that the game has gotten serious? Or is your push for a riceball lynch just an extended joke? Your actual opinion at this point would be useful.

#98- Seriously raider? We're on page 4 and you vote somebody for a sarcastic comment? Just... wow.

Post #99 gives us Azhrei's actual opinion on the self-vote, but not much in regards to content, in that despite the fact that Az states that the selfvote is "something to look at", he never tells us if it's scummy or not.

Sera's #105 seems to contradict #85. He asks why the self-vote is worth looking at after dedicating a post about it. As for the random stage comment, the random stage is over when people are voting for reasons that aren't random. Considering, at the very least, OGML's vote at the begining of the post that is established in non-random reasoning, the random stage was most certainly over at that point. If we took your comment to heart, it would be rather easy for scum to push the random stage indefinately. In fact, by criticizing someone from trying to draw content from the game, that seems to be exactly what you're doing.

Dislike #112. If you were not looking for reactions with that self-vote, exactly what were you expecting? and why is that "bothersome"?

On the other hand, orto makes a good point in #113, and I'd say that overall it's bad regardless of your alignment, since it puts you one vote closer to being lynched. The only good that can come out of it is reactions.

#115- Wow raider, just wow.

#116- I'm torn, because I've found Seraph scummy up to this point. Yet sirdan's reaction here seems to be genuine frustration, therefore making Sera relatively less likely to be scum with dan.

#119 feels like a parrot of #116. Definately would like more individual contribution from Slicey, now that the game seems to be really gotten into full gear.

#121- hp's hesitance to not be "willing to instantly jump on the wagon", when M_K's wagon wouldn't be the biggest, even with hp's vote. (It would be tied for the largest with riceball) Regardless, hp's vote would have made 5, which isn't particularly close to a lynch. L-8 is certainly not something to be hesitant about.

#128 is extremely aggressive, but I find the defenses for his posts adequate.

Although he was scum, dan does have a point with hp in #139. His tone is so profoundly different to his tone with Seraphim (Although they are about completely different issues), that again, it feels like distancing.

#141 feels very indecisive. Do you find Seraphim's aggessiveness scummy? If so, why unvote? If not, why bring it up? And was wanting to stay in the random stage really your only point against Sera? Moar content plz.

#142 is definately something to look at. Having slight meta-knowledge of DGB, and how crazy she is about bussing, I'd think that one of those accusations was in fact truthful, and therefore it's likely that we have raider-Seraphim scum, or even both. (Although that's far less likely, solely judging from this post). The fact that she adds that their being bus'd makes it sound more like Sera, but that could simply be a deceptive add-on.

Setanta's post is identical to #141. Definately something to note.

#154 feels like a defense of Slicey, of the "Why are you whining about X doing something and not Y?" variety. Besides (Dear god it feels weird clarifying for dead scum), DGB wasn't saying that Slicey should be lynched, just that pressure should be applied. Although her initial wording makes it rather confusing.

#155- This is not content. BAD RAIDER.

#158 is IIoA.

I'm worried that I don't feel that I have enough information to develop a good read on alvinz, Sentata, Septia, Hybris. or Raider thus far. More content plz.

#164 isn't bad, but I don't see how applying pressure is ever bad. It's true that it can be utilized by scum, but that pressure will still give the town reactions. And if the scum are applying pressure on other players, they are normally also providing content, which is very good for the town.

I despise #165. You honestly don't have a single read on any of the players? Not a single one? Feels to me like an excuse to avoid analyzing.

#168 feels like psuedo-analysis dressed up as the real article. The only solid point you made in this post was the Slicey- Setanta similarity.

#172, again, I despise these "feelings" that the players apparently can't quantify. Feels like an excuse to sling mud. Aside from that, :goodposting:. The vote for riceballtail feels rather sudden though.

#174. Alvinz. Post content. Now.

#180 I'm glad you don't like active-lurking Slicey, but I would also like it if you provided more content yourself.

#184 I disagree with the OMGUs claim. From what I read, he wasn't voting you as a result of your vote, he would have plenty of other players to choose from. It was the opportunism of your vote, especially because RBT had in their said that they had been V/LA, and you were complaining about them not providing content.

I actually like #190. It feels like he's really making an effort to understand the bandwagons and the cases that are developing.

Dislike #198. Feels like Azhrei is accusing Hybris without any ground to stand on, and it seems to come out of nowhere.

I would like to point out that raider has made several posts throughout this first 200, but I don't recall him ever stating a single person that he finds suspicious. Just wanted to point that out.

#214, nice to see content from Slicey.

#220 feels opportunistic.

#225 IT's worth noting that hp only makes this case when attention is starting to drift over to Santos. Potentially trying to pull it back to MK's (admittedly relatively scummy) behavior.

#228 is rather curious. If you find OGML's posts scummy, why are you going after MK? Do you find MK more scummy than OGML? If so, why?

Like #231

#235 "What DGB said". This feels extremely scummy. When DBG calls out Santos, he realizes that he can hop on the bus without seeming too opportunistic.

#237 Wow. :goodposting:. Asks for an explanation, instead of just hopping on the wagon.

#238 is along the same lines as #235. I'm uncertain at this point whether this simply means convinced town, or just bussing scum. I doubt that both Hybris and Set are bussing though.

Dislike the way that HP and Sera seem to have dropped off the radar once Santos comes under pressure. (Would also like to hear from Alvinz and Azhrei).

#251 :verygoodposting:

#262 What didn't you find scummy about Santos? Considering his play so far, wouldn't more pressure be a good thing? Feels like an attempt to divert the wagon.

#263-264 The fact that DGB points that out mitigates it somewhat, but the two posts could be quick distancing, suspecting that HP would come under fire for that post. However, she quickly helps HP by giving defended HP slightly, but not enough to be particularly blatant.

#265- Interesting. Doesn't deny being scum, just denies being scum with MK.

#289- Slicey, why do you not like OGML voting Santos? Feels like you're also trying to detract from the Santos lynch, while still being on it.

#290- Good job explaining why you are happy with your vote, and stating the obvious (That you will change your vote if circumstances change). Seriously, BAD BAD POSTING.

Like ortolan's pressing of Santos. Feels like he's trying to put pressure on Santos, but also make sure that his claim isn't legitimate, as he doesn't already know that it isn't.

Like #304. Well-timed hammer.

It's worthy noting that HP, despite a couple of his later comment expressing suspicion of the player, was not on the Santos wagon. Alvinz, obviously, wasn't either.

#312- I like the explanation of his suspicion of MyLife, I'm curious why he didn't do this earlier though, when Santos was being lynched.


#339- Why would you answer a question directed at somebody else? If they're scum, then you just gave them an out, instead of forcing them to come up with their own answer. Looks like buddying up- IMO. If Hybris is scum, than, given the nature of this discussion, I find it less likely that Sera is. And vice-versa.

#342- Definately want to see raider provide a case for the OGML lynch, considering that all he seems to have done so far is fan the flames.

#343- Again, I dispise these "I don't know why I feel this way, but I do" reads. It makes them utterly unjustifiable. Feels like you're just throwing suspicion around.

It feels like Fark is focussing on lurkers, a good scum tactic, because lurkers often don't respond to pressure. Either because they are intentionally lurking for one reason or another, or because they forgot about the game.

#379- Feels like Fark is playing both sides here.

#381- Unapologetically sycophantic.

Overall #383 isn't bad, I just don't like this part

Azhrei: If the person who was the brunt of the aggression turned out town, then the aggressor deserves a closer look, don't they?

Wrong. I've seen many cases where town tunnel-visions on other town. By this logic, we will burn up two straight lynches- one on the initial townie, and the second on the agressor. If the agressor asks scummy, by all means, lynch them. But don't lynch somebody just because they were wrong.

#392- I dislike "translation" posts, as it's often an attempt to put words into other player's mouthes. However, it's not a bad intepretation, despite the fact that Polar Bear flipped down, and I can see a pro-town player thinking such.

#399 :greatposting:

#408- Raider, I must admit I expected a better case than this. Your case seems to be rooted in OMGUS suspicions, something that I'm convinced that you know that town do as well. I get a horrible feeling from this post.

#416- Rice, what did you see about the attack from Talitha that was scummy?

#417- Why exactly were you waiting for HP to post, Orto?

HP mysteriously disappeared until it was convenient for him to reveal himself. I can see why you wanted him to post Orto. Sera pulled a similar vanishing act.

#490- This post seems to be trying out a veiled accusation, without any other basis besides Tathila's shift in vote. Now, that may be enough for Azhrei to find her suspicious, but at least be clear about it. Be held responsible for your suspicions, don't cloud them in analogies and "possibilities".


#506- A portal reference Seraphim? It's hard to overstate my satisfaction! (Oh come on, I had to do it. >_>)


#525- :relativelygoodposting:

#542- Raider, you don't really explain the reasoning for your reads, which would be nice. Why do they seem "genuine and reasonable" to you?

#544- I don't get why you were certain that there was more than one type of Mafia. This feels like a slip. This was before members of one group started dying, after all.

#545- :greatposting:

#552- Again, we seem to be speculating based on very little evidence. Also, the whole "Knife Cop" thing read to me more like flavor, since he's a chef and therefore slices up sushi, and would know how well they've been cooked. It feels to me that a "Knife Mafia" doesn't seem to fit the flavor that well and is a stretch.

#557- Why aren't you rereading Day 2 Seraphim? Rereading gives you better information and the ability to make educated decisions based on a larger amount of evidence.

#559- Orto... why are you concerned about zwet "wagoning your scumbuddy"? If so, that's a definate positive thing. Since once he gets his PM. he will either be forced to go with it, or backpedal, which could be quite obvious.

#611- Umm... Seraphim... you said you weren't going to reread.

#618- Blatant Bandwagoning HO!

#621- Seraphim did the exact same thing directing above this post. RBT at least provided reasoning.

#625- Seraphim did something quite similar.

However, DGB's defense of RBT is rather worrying.

HP is strikingly absent as well.
'
#637- Slicey, you hammer before Plum's promised analysis. Why? Are you worried about too much information being obtained by the town in a single day?

#642- Minn, Content. This is your first post. You need to provide content. You can't just slip your way through the game.

#647- Setanta, why did you choose to hammer when you did?

#669- :goodposting:

#684- You're one to talk, Mr. Lurker...

#696- This is pretty bad analysis. You don't really explain your reads, which makes me curious as to why exactly you say what you do about Azhrei's post, fark's post, and I don't see your case on Pear Bear. You find Pear the "scummiest person all game" based on a single post? LOLWUT?

#699- Dislike this. Even if somebody seems to be "obvscum" from their posting, you should still discuss the issue, and at least discuss other cases. You have 2 weeks. Use it. And Flameaxe is male. And why are you ad-hominem attacking the dead guy?

#707- WIFOM.

These last two lynches were far too fast for comfort. Scum was definately leading them.

MINI- CONTRIBUTE. CONTENT PLZ.

#774- If you feel that people are being dumb, then you should contribute more, not less. Get into the game and bring some intelligence to the table. I agree that town has made some dumb decisions, but that should not cause you to lurk. It should cause you to become more motivated to post.

#825- What made you believe that Zwet was town Slicey?

#838- This post makes no sense. A power that somehow made it so that pro-town players would be unable to defend themselves would be utterly broken. And is it me, or does "all townspeople" sound like he's referring to an outside group?

#862- The last two bandwagons of townies were extremely fast. And you are attacking somebody worried about a fast bandwagon?

#933- Santos instead of Santata? If that's not a slip, I don't know what is.

Has Quen posted anything of use thus far?

#954- Wow. You were pro-town for a while there raider, but this post is scummy as heck.

#976- Qan this discussion is utterly irrelevant. Why are you helping to drive the thread off-topic?

WhereIsTony needs to stop lurking.

#1017- Why are you not commenting on the DGB case?

#1024- Stop ignoring the case raider, it's still there...

#1034 Now raider is defending DGB.

#1064- This is a town-tell.

#1086- There's no way that the Mod would make a mistake like that, and totally break the game. Orto is pro-town, regardless.

Qanqan needs to stop fishing. Now. It is utterly anti-town.

#1127- Woah! SOMEONE's hasty!

#1134- Wait, the people who are trying to lynch AK is scum, but it's also likely that AK is scum? I know, bussing, but that just seems surreal!

Minineko is officially Active Lurking. KK

#1185- Raider-Qanqan connection noted.

#1193- I dislike Sera's play as well, but I've found that he often is the leader of townie lynches. Definately leaning scum on him though. I think we have bigger scum to fry ATM. This really feels like OMGUS.

#1205- Defended QanQan. Another useless post.

#1242- You have not given a single suspicion all game. Not one. Give us some content, or die. And at this point, I want the latter.

#1243- ... Dear god... I... agree with Seraphim.

#1248- This post is extremely scummy.

#1259- That's a horrible idea. Scumlinks are one of the best things about role reveals- if the player is scum, we can examine how they interacted with other players.

#1265- Just because "somebody looks pretty town" does not been they don't warrant closer scrutiny. In fact, I disagree. I feel that Seraphim has been rather neutral at this point. He has some pretty scummy moments, but some pretty pro-town ones as well, so it mostly seems to even out. Trying to protect a buddy?

One thing I would like to note is the curious nature of this day- we put pressure on Quanquan, minineko quickly jumps out and says something scummy. And then when we put pressure on minineko, Tony suddenly becomes active. I suspect a scumgroup. However, I'm going to vote the person I'm most certain about

Vote: Minineko.

I notice that you got past L-2 last time without a claim. Claim, or die. Your sins include-
Active lurking
Lurking
Defending Qanqan
Etc.

CONCLUSIONS: I would like a Minineko or Qanqan lynch ATM, followed by a Raider/HP (Pretty much tied) lynch. Anything else is just above NL.

Minineko>>Quanquan>>>>>>>Tony>Raider>HP>>>>>>>>>>>>>Everybody else>(Ad infinitum) NL

We still do have a couple of days guys, so I would like everybody to be active so that we can discuss thoroughly.

[PieIsPopcorn]

Sorry. Should I break my posts up into double-or triple posts in the future? That would cut down on the size, but I thought was frowned upon as well.

[PieIsPopcorn]

Sorry about the lengthy post. In the future, would it be better to break posts like that apart into smaller ones? Because I thought that double/triple posting was frowned upon as well.

(Addedum to my MegaPost- I would also put Seraphim behind HP, but far above everybody else in my lynch list.)

And like Qanqan, it seems that Mini has disappeared again. One thing that I found about Mini is that both Santos and DGB brought no attention to them. DGB called Alvinz a lurker, never elaborating or trying to change such. She also said, in a surprisingly neutral tone, that she didn't think that mini had read the thread. I think that Mini was hoping to float under the radar while Activescum Dan and DGB drew attention to other players.

[PieIsPopcorn]

Gari - vanilla town

I don't have the flavor text :/

Meow.

Thank you. Now, who do you find scummy, and why?

[PieIsPopcorn]

You should reread then.

I don't think scum would be this stupid,

but when you sign up for a game, you sign up for a commitment. ditching all of us just because you're confused isn't good ethics.

If you no longer think that Mini is scum Seraphim, why are you still voting for them?

Mini, I'd also reccomend you either reread until you develop suspicions, or replace out. (I'd like the former, obviously) Because lurking and not being able to provide content when pressed are not good things for someone in a speed game regardless of alignment.

[PieIsPopcorn]

Slicey- as a result in the change of mods, there is no flavor text in replacement role PMs. Mine is the same.

However, since the deadline is approaching, I see nothing wrong with Minn being at L-1. Should give them some incentive to provide the town with more content.

But NOBODY HAMMER. Either wait until it's obvious that Minn is not going to give us anything more, or says something extremely scummy. If town, then we don't want to lynch them. If scum, waiting until they give us content is optimal.

[PieIsPopcorn]

QanQan, raider, and hp need to state their opinion on this lynch. Now.

[PieIsPopcorn]

I think the Minineko is defiantly pinging high on the scum-radar. I still haven't had my suspicions from post 1240 satisfied/eased

Post 1240:

I'm not really "trying to look active". I don't have much to say, but I am saying it because it's better than nothing. "Looking active" is not my goal.
Meow.

I do not know why but this post does not (in anyway) sit well with me. It just feels scummy no matter which way i look at it, or at least thats what my guts tells me as there has been stuff to talk about so this just feels like a flimsy excuse of a post.

And his post in 1290 are not helping his case, they infact make it WORSE!
Post 1290:

I really don't know. I've totally lost track of this game. Very little (other than Polar Bear) caught my eye while I was rereading, and I've pretty much forgotten everything else that happened.

Meow.

@Minineko
Please Minineko give me some reasons/explainations/something otherwise I'm gonna call for the hammer!

:verygoodposting: Minn, a response to this case would definately be in your best interest, if you care about staying in the game.

I would also like to add something- Minn, exactly why are you unable to get a read on anybody? You aren't particularly clear. And if you can't get a read on anybody, then why aren't you being more active, asking questions, and trying to get a hold on everything that's happening in the game? It feels like a pro-town player, if he didn't understand what was going on, would make an effort to contribute, and get reads on the players, instead of just dropping out of existance.

Meanwhile, if you're scum, it's extremely convenient for you to claim to not have any reads. It avoids you having to take a stand on any issues, or show a connection to any of your buddies.

On another note...

I tried to create a list of players that I felt needed to speak up about the Minn bandwagon earlier, but it wasn't complete.
The following players need to comment on the bandwagon (Do you believe it to be justified? Do you believe there to be better targets?):
Qanqan, Ortolan, raider, hp [leaves].


Deadline hits on monday, we need everybody's opinions so that we have the greatest amount of information to sift through tomorrow, once we've seen a flip.

In fact, Ortolan and Qanqan seem to have fallen off the radar entirely. I'm especially suspicious of Qanqan. I believe I mentioned this in my analysis post, but it was really convenient how Minn suddenly jumped to his defense and drew attention once he came under pressure.

I'll explain. Before Qanqan got bandwagoned, Mini's last post of substance was on March 6th.

I support the extension, and not the massclaim.

DGB's case on Santos is pretty good. The thing is, I can't decide if AK is trying to be protown, or if he's trying to deflect onto Santos.

unvote for now.

Meow.

However, Qanqan quickly gets three votes due to scummy behavior, and Mini finally makes another post of substance-

Interesting rolefish by Qangan...

Um. Where?

I dont think scumRiceball would have hammered AK mostly because of the previous chat about her being "active lurking" and bering near the end of all the wagons....

Qangan, maybe. I'll have to go back and reread.

Meow.

The post begins with talk about Qanqan, has some Riceball WIFOM smudged in the middle, and then some more about Qanqan in the end.

And now that the opposite has happened and Mini has come under fire, the relatively-active qanqan has dropped any sense of contribution. I want an explanation from qanqan about why this is so.

(Woah, semi-wall of text. Just wanted to post my thoughts, and it evolved into this. Sorry about that.)

[PieIsPopcorn]

Bah, simulpost. Cross hp off the list then. What makes WhereIsTony a superior lynch to Mini?

[PieIsPopcorn]

HP- You mean this bet?

I'm guessing that:

Microphone_Kirby (5)- Pear Bear, ortolan, OhGodMyLife, Sipylus, Green Crayons
raider8169 (3)- Plum, Septia, Talitha
Seraphim (3)- CounselWolf, sirdanilot, Slicey

One of these three players is scum, and being bus'ed.

I'll check again at end game. Here's my wager. If I'm wrong, I'll replace in 3 games. If I'm right, I'll mod a game.

Because then you should be voting Raider or Seraphim, not Farkshinsoup/Septia, who WhereIsTony replaced.

[PieIsPopcorn]

Looking at WhereIsTony did not take long at all with only 9 posts and they are all really just one liners. He has been in the game for a month with nothing to show for it. I am very happy with his lynch. The only person he has accused is Zwet but never voted for him. His vote is currently on minineko and his reason is because the kettle is black.

I am happy with a WhereIsTony lynch.

Vote WhereIsTony

Anyone know when the deadline is? I will hammer if needed but I would rather see a tony lynch.

This isn't a bad reason, but I fail to see how Mini's lurking is better than Tony's lurking, nor how Mini's scummy posts are better than Tony's opportunism. *Blargh, sorry for pulling a BM the last couple posts guys.*

This WhereIsTony wagon reeks. I much prefer the Mini wagon ATM.

[PieIsPopcorn]

This isn't a bad reason, but I fail to see how Mini's lurking is better than Tony's lurking, nor how Mini's scummy posts are better than Tony's opportunism. *Blargh, sorry for pulling a BM the last couple posts guys.*

This WhereIsTony wagon reeks. I much prefer the Mini wagon ATM.

What reeks about it? The mini wagon seems forced as most of this games lynches have been. There is not much of a difference but I think mini has posted more and has had a little bit of content in there.

To explain that, I'll have to show how exactly this mini-wagon got formed. Slicey voted WhereIsTony for bandwagoning. The vote I find least suspicious, because it is logical, and he doesn't show any sort of commitment to the wagon based on faulty reasoning.


At first, hp voted for Riceball due to her quick-hammer. Then, HP [leaves] votes Tony, for the following reason.

DGB was scum. We'd better not trust her information.

FoS

for this post. Could be a way of protecting a scumbuddy.

Assuming she's correct, this leaves us raiderscum and tonyscum. Seraphim looks pretty town so we don't even need to look into that.

Actually I'm willing to test this.

Unvote, Vote WhereIsTony

He quickly dismisses Seraphim as scum, which many people have already criticized. He doesn't even demonstrate his methodology, just stating that we don't need to examine it because he "looks town". In fact, he outright states that you, raider, were part of the post, and that Tony was part of
the post, when he wasn't.

He doesn't quote the post to demonstrate how Tony-scum is related to DGB's bet at all. And why didn't he vote you, raider? Why did he choose WhereIsTony? He doesn't make that clear either. In fact, he goes from feeling like this-

DGB was scum. We'd better not trust her information.

To the post above in three days.

HP has been against the Mini wagon from the first it seems, never feeling the need to be on it, and trying to start counter-wagons from the beginning. This is despite the fact that he also noticed the lack of contribution from Mini.

I'm not really "trying to look active". I don't have much to say, but I am saying it because it's better than nothing. "Looking active" is not my goal.

Meow.

Would you care to contribute?

And now, three days from the deadline, you jump on the Tony wagon, after mentioning him once beforehand. Tony and Mini have both in the game a month, Mini in the game slightly longer, with Mini only having 4 more posts. None of them are particularly full of content, and he admits that not having reads on anybody in the game. In contrast, WhereIsTony has voted Mini, and FOSed HP. In addition, he has stated things that he found suspicious about HP, such as-

FoS Hp Leaves

, trying to nail RBT for the QH, seems like scum trying to get people to jump at shadows.

We were in danger of a no lynch.

And earlier, with Zwet-

Unvote

I don't care when AK gets lynched, as long as he gets lynched. I want to hear Qanqan, Minineko and WhereisTony's suspicions.

My suspicions on Zwet.


based mainly in his posts that allude to knowing things and being important, without backing them up.

In my experiencce town power roles either claim hard or don't claim at all.

Scum IMPLY

I find it far more likely that we'll get content from WhereIsTony in the future than we will from Mini. If town, they are not helping the town cause by scumhunting and providing information. If scum, they will be able to coast by, and even when lynched, won't provide us any information as to scumbuddies or connections. This is not true with Tony.


Ergo, I consider this wagon to be ill-founded, and led by scum trying to detract from the Mini wagon- either bussing to get townie cred (which I doubt), or trying to railroad a townie in order to save a buddy (Something I find far more likely.)

On the deadline- I apologize, my calculations were off. I thought the day had started earlier than it actually had. Since it started on March 25, and deadline is 2 weeks from the starting point, I believe it ends on April 8th. However, I'm not a whiz at mathematics, so if I'm wrong, the mod can feel free to correct me.

[PieIsPopcorn]

I'm guessing that:

Microphone_Kirby (5)- Pear Bear, ortolan, OhGodMyLife, Sipylus, Green Crayons
raider8169 (3)- Plum, Septia, Talitha
Seraphim (3)- CounselWolf, sirdanilot, Slicey

One of these three players is scum, and being bus'ed.

I'll check again at end game. Here's my wager. If I'm wrong, I'll replace in 3 games. If I'm right, I'll mod a game.

...wait. I'd be willing to bet that one of those 3 players actually is scummates with her. We know MK is town. There is one scum between raider and Seraphim. I'm about 70% sure, with my knowledge of DGB.

Now, let's color coordinate who we know is scum and who we know is town (red = scum, green = town)

Microphone_Kirby

(5)-

Pear Bear

, ortolan,

OhGodMyLife

, Sipylus,

Green Crayons

raider8169 (3)-

Plum

, Septia,

Talitha

Seraphim (3)-

CounselWolf

,

sirdanilot

, Slicey

Now, DGB (maybe, we're still don't know for sure) knew that sirdan was her scummate. I think she was doing some early distancing from sirdan and scumSeraphim. I think she just revealed a scummate of hers by her attempted distancing. I believe that one of those three players, Seraphim is being bussed by scumsirdan. I think we found our scum and we have DGB to thank.

Now, this rules out my other theory. I'm fine with that. This revelation and AK flipping town has pretty much disproved my theory.

Unvote, Vote: Seraphim

Hrm. I did find Seraph pretty scummy through my read (Between his push of the RBT lynch early, contradicting himself, DGB's post, his lurking through the Santos lynch...), that after rereading him in isolation I think I would actually prefer his lynch to a Minn or HP lynch. Would give the town a truckload of information.


In addition, Seraph, you never answered my question-

You should reread then.

I don't think scum would be this stupid,

but when you sign up for a game, you sign up for a commitment. ditching all of us just because you're confused isn't good ethics.

If you no longer think that Mini is scum Seraphim, why are you still voting for them?

To make matters worse, I don't like Seraphim's response at all-

WTF?

Slicey, are you willing to be lynched tomorrow if your theory is wrong?

Why exactly should Slicey be lynched tomorrow even if he is incorrect? An incorrect analysis does not a scum make. And (since I really believe that DGB was distancing, that makes it almost certain in my eyes that raider is scum, if you flip town) it's extremely likely that we'll get scum as a result of your lynch. It feels like you're trying to scare Slicey into not lynching you by getting others agree to set up a lynch of Slicey tomorrow if you flip town.

Because trusting DGB, especially scum-DGB, is a long-shot.

Hrm... this sounds strangely familiar. I wonder where I heard it before? Oh yeah, that's right...

DGB was scum. We'd better not trust her information.

This was scummy then, and it is scummy now.

Unvote, Vote: Seraphim

MFOS: Minn

(Don't think I've forgotten about you. I'm waiting on that content.)

[PieIsPopcorn]

I'm less inclined to lynch Seraphim now. I would like to leave him to a vig, but there has been no proof that a vig actually exists.

Keeping my vote now, but it may change back to Minineko.

Hrm. What caused the sudden change in heart?

[PieIsPopcorn]

I looked closer at who is still not confirmed town or scum that was voting raider (I was more focused on Seraphim/sirdan when I posted that. The only one was Septia/WIT. WIT has been acting pretty scummy, most notably this day phase. You've said your suspicions on raider, and I agree with you on them. I will tell you this. There is at least one scum between Seraphim, raider and WIT. I'm not 100% sure obviously, but I have a good feeling about it.

Basically, I think there is just an equal chance of scum WIT bussing scum raider and scum sirdan bussing scum Seraphim. Which is why I'm unsure.

Eh, I see your point, although I still have a slight pro-town read on WIT. It's mostly gut though, and based on the way that other players have reacted to his play thus far. And I believe that I liked a couple of Septia's posts, although I may have to double-check later. Although I'm quite happy with the Minn wagon. After you made this point, I think I'd prefer to try and get a lynch of one of those three players today, and I have said gut town-read on Tony.

I doubt that we can get a raider lynch off in two-days, so that leaves Seraphim. I'm rather busy ATM, but I'll try to explain my case on Seraphim more clearly by tomorrow night. If the wagon honestly isn't getting enough traction, I'll switch back to Minn.

[PieIsPopcorn]

I do agree with PieIsPopcorn's 1273 suspicion of Seraphim. Not sure about the rest of the post though

Sorry. Should I break my posts up into double-or triple posts in the future? That would cut down on the size, but I thought was frowned upon as well.

Please quote what you want to respond to then respond to it. Much better to read than those summaries you posted. I didn't go back and read any of the posts you mentioned. I don't mind long posts as long as they have something useful and reasonably clear to say. Your post might have been useful but it wasn't clear.

I completely agree with this point now. My post structure was utterly inconvenient and frustrating to read, and I apologize for that. I will redo that post when I find time. I will, however, create my case on Seraphim much clearer right now, so that it can get some responses and reactions.

[PieIsPopcorn]

EVERYONE: Do you think that there are two scum groups?

The amount of scumgroups in this game is rather interesting and perplexing. We obviously have at least a couple anti-town roles, as a role had to kill the two Mafia goons. Yet we've only had one night-kill each night. My speulation would be that there is a Mafia group that can't kill (as the kill flavor has been the same every night), and a second Mafia group/SK that has killed every night.

The kill flavor and the fact that they've killed every night points toward an SK or second Mafia, rather than a vig. Either that or we have a Mafia with a limited amount of kills, and a lucky Doctor or Roleblocker, as well as a second Mafia/SK. I feel that I can't make a definitive statement on whether there are two scumgroups or not, as I don't know the size of the known mafia, nor any abilities they may have that make up for their inability to kill, but I'd think that a second Mafia is more likely than an SK.

So, why are you asking this question? If it's relevant to a reason you shouldn't be lynched- spit it out. Now.

Now, the case against Sera.

Three times in the early game, Seraphim called for RBTs lynch, after RVing her himself.

I'm sorry, but the riceballtail wagon needs more votes. We clearly need her dead as she is clearly scum.

We need more votes on the riceballtail wagon.

Speedlynch, go go go!

Even the lynchee agrees she(Are you a she?) is the best lynch. LYNCH GO NOW.

Now, one could argue that all these took place during the RVS, and that therefore the argument is valid. Now, if at Post #85 your game hasn't gone beyond the point where random jokes are acceptable, in my opinon it's best to be pressing for information or making cases based on what is availible to gather reactions. Sera doesn't do this, choosing instead to focus on a single player. I find this scummy, as it does little to end the RVS.


The RVS isn't particularly positive for town, as there is little content, and it is especially tricky to decipher the actual scummy comments from the jokey ones. Yet, Sera's comments almost seem to be prolonging the RVS, which is anti-town at best, pro-scum at worst.

Self-voting while randomly voting is a null tell.

Self-voting when the game is serious is a scumtell.

(IIoA ((Information instead of Analysis))). So, since the game isn't "serious" yet, you don't believe this to be a scumtell? What exactly are your feelings on the bandwagon thus far, and RBT's reaction to it? This feels like trying to provide content, without outright stating your opinons on issues, something scum do all the time. It is a tricky form of active-lurking.

The self-vote, and following discussion, appear to have brought us out of the random stage

However, while I agree it's generally not very significant, I think it's something to look at.

And who are you to call whether or not the random voting stage is over?

This feels rather scummy, in that the RVS should be over when votes begin that are based on content in the game arise, and not just random nonsense. Scum want the RVS to go on as long as possible, and town should want it to end as quickly as possible. Therefore Seraphim's aghast reaction at somebody stating that the RVS is over seems more likely to come from scum than town.

And why is the self-vote something to look at?

You seem to be trying to hand-wave an attempt at providing the town content, again something that scum are more likely to do than town. Investigating issues is a pro-town thing to do, even if they don't seem particularly key or scummy at first glance.

Although I like most of #172,

@Post 160 and 161

Something about your posts just scream anti-town to me. I can't figure out what it is, but when I do...

I despise this. These reads, when you can't explain what they are, is a blatant excuse for mud-slinging.

[quote="Seraphim]You see, your entire 'I'll just vote for the biggest bandwagon" case isn't true. I FoSed only one person with a true bandwagon on him at the time and now. I'm getting a town read off of you from our little back-and-forth. I'm also getting a town read from Slicey, though I wish he'd post more. I'm still not sold on a Microphone_Kirby lynch, though his recent posts leave me uneasy.

Also,

Vote: riceballtail

You should post more content as you have been limited to (barely) defending your self-vote and pre-inning DGB's possible game. Oh, and self-voting. Post moar, please.[/quote]

In addition, although I agree with RBT contributing more, since Rice lurking had been an issue for a while now, your vote for them feels extremely sudden.

OMGUS much, RBT?

I'll post more tomorrow or Sunday as I'm in no condition to think clearly right now.

As a result of the suddenness of the vote, and the fact that RBT's V/L/A had been in their sig to begin with, I feel that the OMGUS claim is a quick response to discredit Rice's vote. The vote was indeed opportunistic, considering that you were not only voting based on something that would have become an issue a good amount of time ago, but they were presently absent for a good reason.


It feels like an attempt to divert attention and take off the remainder of the votes, since this was your first actual vote since you recieved your 3 person mini-wagon. When you recieved pressure from Sirdan and Slicey, your first reaction was to bring attention to other players too. You FOS not one, not two, but THREE players, two of whom were voting you.

@@Post 116

Who are you to up and decide that the point of my post was to attack for the content of his post instead of the lack of it? If I had decided that ending the random voting phase and noting that someone had self-voted was scummy, I'd need multiple votes to vote for you all. Also, calling riceballtail as my scumbuddy already? This kind of thing is bad as it sounds like you're setting up for future lynches.

FoS: sirdanilot

@Post 119

Why the sudden jump? And why the bullshit, dude? I want to stay in the random voting stage? That's your reason for voting me? What role have you ever encountered that would benefit for staying in the random voting stage? Talk about serious reaction voting and then looking for crappy reasons to vote the latest bandwagon...

FoS: Slicey

@Post 126

Because it's blatant rolefishing? Role speculation during the

random voting stage

. Sounds like you want to find power roles for easy lynches. Plus, what kind of bastard mod makes a set of roles that can both fulfill their win conditions by one killing the other? Except Tar, of course.

FoS: Microphone_Kirby

Also,

unvote

.

Because we're apparently out of the random voting phase now!

I'll watch some more reactions to see who actually warrants my vote as I have three different people who I'm looking at right now.

Not only does that reek of defensiveness, but the simple fact that you FOS three people, not voting a single one of them, makes me feel like you're just trying to throw suspicion around. In addition, you didn't state that you changed your opinion on any of the three players you FOSed, so why suddenly vote Rice for something that you hadn't criticized them for before?

You then vote Santos, and float under the radar for a while. A good chunk of that is explanable as V/L/A, but until Day 2 the only comments that you honestly had were a quick comment asking why M_K was voting OGML, without providing further content. After that, there was this-

Mod: Please note my sig.

I like my vote where it is, though if circumstances change, I reserve my right to change my vote.

This feels like stating the obvious (If you didn't like your vote where it is, you would have had time to change it to a target that you found more scummy), and yet you don't explain why. It feels like your initial reason (Lurking), wouldn't hold as much water since Santos was now posting, and you don't even comment on Santos's roleclaim. It also feels rather strange that you would state that you reserve the right to change your vote, since it feels like stating the obvious. (If there is V/L/A protocol in this regard that I'm missing, please let me know.)

Your behavior throughout the Santos lynch seems to imply that you knew he was scum, since you don't put a great deal of effort into quality scumhunting.

You did

exactly

the same thing yesterday that you are voting OGML for today.. i.e. the turnaround from M-K to Santos. The only difference is that yours was less blatant and attracted less attention. So who is more likely scum? The one who attracts everyone's attention for aggressive play, then changes his vote when new evidence comes to light? Or the bandwagoner, who follows the crowd?

If you flip townie, I'm going to be looking very closely at OGML tomorrow.

Come on. Ever heard of bussing? If OGML flips scum, I'm gonna be looking verrry closely at you.

These comments make me feel pretty happy that Azhrei is scum. He's not thinking deeply about the game, just playing to a lazy formula and setting up his vote for the next day in advance, in case there's no convenient bandwagon to follow.

This.

Vote: Azhrei

Oh, hi all. I've been paying attention, I just haven't had the time to make a post since real life has been killing me lately. So yeah, I'm back.

I dislike it when users do this, simply because of the fact that it feels like they're using another users analysis as a piggy-back, instead of scumhunting yourself. It feels like you could at least put the post in your own words.

Instead of rereading day two, I decided to make my decisions solely based on what's happened today so far.

I really dislike this. What's wrong with rereading Day 2? Town needs to utilize as much information as possible. You don't really explain why you don't want to reread Day 2, which makes it even scummier. In addition, you say this (In the same post)-

Right now, my vote could go to one of two people...one of whom I was pretty sure was scum yesterday, which would be Pear Bear.

I'm going with the sure thing...I think Pear Bear is scum.

Vote: Pear Bear

I love Slicey's case which really sums up all my problems with PB.

Not only are you stating that Pear Bear is somebody that you also suspected yesterday, which seems to contradict your promise to not utilize information that isn't "solely based" on Day 3. To make matters worse, you're voting someone that hasn't even posted on Day 3 yet, just sycophantically echoing Slicey. This is all in one post. Feels like a bad excuse to bandwagon.

Vote: Flameaxe

I like wagons with shitty, unreasonable reasoning reasonable too! Can we lynch him already?

This.

Unvote
Vote: Flameaxe

On post #612, you stated that you were catching up. (You also state that your vote was a placeholder, yet I find it odd that you didn't mention this in the post that contains the vote itself. Seems like good infromation for the town to know.) Yet, you don't provide the results on this read, and just bandwagon flameaxe. (And yes, I've seen flameaxe play, and this act seems to really fit for him, if he honestly felt that the bandwagon was without merit.) He doesn't really explain why he was voting flameaxe, not evening quoting the post where he stated that self-voting was scummy once past the RVS.

M_K, what the hell? If you felt like the Flameaxe lynch was a mistake, why didn't open up? You sound like scum trying to trip town who got onto that wagon and it's not working. Believe me, this isn't going to win your scum team the game.

Vote: Microphone_Kirby

Not bad reasoning, but it's worth noting that it's still bandwagoning on a player who flipped townie.

Vote: Pear Bear

There's too much evidence against him to be ignored or brushed off as simple newbiness. Azhrei brings up the best point: that sirdanilot defended PB. Sirdan is scum. That, the scumminess coming off of him like a nuclear bomb's radiation, I refuse to sit back and watch us lynch another townie.

Ignoring the hilarity for a moment of that last sentence, this is another vote that is extremely bandwagon-y, although it might not be officially considered a bandwagon vote considering how early he got on. His reasoning is pretty bad- he completely dismisses the possibility of buddying for no apparent reason. He doesn't explain the "scumminess" that he sees in Pear Bear, not even citing other posts that explain it this time. Feels particularly like scum going after an easy target.

Well, his play has been really weird which seems to indicate that he's not normal Mafia. At least, that's what some of the other players have been saying.

Why are not providing your own opinion in this post when you have plenty of incentive to do so?

Just so you know, the person you replaced has acted very oddly and scummy throughout the game. You are currently the most probable candidate for today's lynch, or rather, you were.

Another opportunity to provide content- IE, explain to AK how his behavior has been scummy so that he can discuss it, or at least cite some posts that explain how, and he chooses not to.

Sheesh, is everyone a townie in this game? Next I'm going to think DGB is scum.

DGB is always scum. XP

... Considering DGB's role reveal, I find this joking statement to be rather... interesting. As I did DGB's earlier statement that Seraphim was pro-town.

I don't think AK is scum.

Not only do you continue to not explain your reads, you also don't mention this read, or explain it, until the AK wagon started to collapse. If you had this read and it was based on evidence, you should have brought it up much earlier. That is, if you were interested in giving information to the town.

Vote: AK

I really can't see any other lynch happened today. Unless it's Zwet.

... Wow. Are you seriously saying that we should lynch AK OUT OF CONVENIENCE? You don't state that you want an AK lynch, you just say that you find the AK lynch inevitable. So, when there is a deadline situation, you say that you think AK, the only lynch possibility aside from Jebus, is town. Yet when a new day emerges, suddenly there are only two scum possibilites? When a Mafia goon dies, and we have new connections and scumlinks to sift through, suddenly there are only two possibilities? It's a speed game, I know. But you guys had plenty of time to come up with cases against other players. You were blatantly trying to rush the lynch.

Can someone hammer?

As town, why would you want a premature hammer? Aren't you aware that premature hammers stifle discussion and is just utterly anti-town? This was over a week early, which is pretty strange. I can imagine wanting to end the Day a couple of days early, but over a WEEK?

EBWOP: Oh, whoops.

Unvote

Vote: riceballtail

I dislike this extremely. I thought that AK and Zwet were the only lynches availible today? Yet suddenly, when AK is about to be lynched, you shift course again, to go for an "active lurker" you could have gone for all day. I'm really beginning to think that you think that he's town and you're setting up an "I Told you So".

Alright then. Seeing as the single NK has been working for the town...

Unvote
Vote: AK

I see something about this post that makes me uneasy with lynching you, but that's mitigated somewhat by the way, but this is blatantly vote-hopping.

Why he wasn't hammered before is anyone's guess. Hell, I'm surprised that he's lasted this long. PB's prior play was awful.

... Because longer days are better for the town, especially in a speed game? The fact that you don't seem to realize this tells me that you're not thinking about this from the mindset of a townie.

Somebody thought zwet was on to something. I think now is the best time to start lynching lurkers especially lurkers who rolefish.

Vote: Qanqan

Lurky scum.

... What happened to your suspicions of Riceball active lurking? You don't even mention her anymore.

There is my case on why your scummy. You have been the head of several townie lynches, extremely bandwagon-y and opportunistic, and seem committed to provide as little content as possible. I can see one thing that could really save you in my read, and between your question and this post, I need you to claim. Now. That way, we can quickly revitalize the bandwagon on Mini before deadline forces an NL.

Millar's post makes me even more uneasy. Seraph, claim. Now.

[PieIsPopcorn]

That riceballtail vote is not mine. It was a messed-up quote. Just in case,

unvote vote Seraphim

When you're in this much danger of a lynch, I expect you to fullclaim, not just claim your name and flavor. This reeks of a safeclaim. CLAIM. NOW.

[PieIsPopcorn]

I don't want town players to get lynched for my mislynch. Scum players are rejoicing because they have managed to direct another town mislynch. Lovely.

Seraphim, why would town players get lynched for your mislynch if it's the scum that are directing the lynch? In addition, exactly who were you thinking of when you made this post?

If we're going to play this game, I'm going to deflect like hell and create a case on Raider because that's the only player that the DGB-ites will believe.

... I don't understand this post. If you can make an extremely compelling case on another player, I'm all for it. However, aside from a lynch on raider or you, I fail to see any lynch that would provide the town with a great deal of information, as well as probably catching us some scum.

Like the rest of the lynches in this game, this one has gone by ridiculously fast. Clearly no one can see that several players have been pushing cases the entire game on town players.

Again, you don't explain who these players are, it feels like you're just trying to throw blame wherever you can at this point. Give cases on these mysterious shadow-scum please.

We lynched scum DAY 1 and that's it: since then, scum have been in control. When I flip town, analyze my wagon.

Well of course we're going to analyze the wagon after you're dead, that's what should always occur after lynches, whether they be pro or anti-town. I'm curious why you felt the need to state this.

millar: your first actions replacing in is putting me at L-1. Any reason why?

This is a good question.

I read the whole topic...and you came off the most scummy looking by far.

Except that you don't explain why. This reeks of a bus.

As a replacement I am impartial and have no bias....so to be honest putting you at L-1 is really irrelevant.

That is somewhat untrue. If you're scum, you still have an agenda you wish to push, whether you're a replacement or not. I believe that you're agenda right now is bussing, and you're doing it pretty poorly. Explain your case against Sera. What about him do you find scummy?

You will find out at the end of the today hopefully

... Wow. You really want Sera lynched millar. What makes you so positive that Sera is scum, that you are willing to disregard what Sera claimed? If Sera had claimed Vigilante, or Doctor, would you have still wanted to lynch him?

I am a replacement into this game...so to be honest after reading all 54 pages "with no bias" I really doubt that my view is going be changed so easily. I think he looks like scum, so I am going to stick to my guns. I know, that claims are sometimes false and some people will say anything to escape boiling water. Enuf said

You don't think that you're view is going to "be changed so easily" by a roleclaim? Seriously? Again, what is your case on Seraphim? Why would his claim be irrelevant?

Alright, I'll explain myself. Everyone has stated that there are two scum groups. If there are two scum groups, chances are it would be 3:3:18 in order to be balanced. It's highly unlikely that unless one of the scum groups is larger than 3 people that I was scum with DGB.

How would that be balanced, considering that one of the scumgroups can't kill? I'd imagine that they would have some advantage to make up for that, and the first one that comes to mind is size. Of course, they could have outlandish powers, but that seems unlikely considering that the two that have been found dead have both been goons. So, if anything, that set up would be unfair to the members of the pre-cooked Mafia.

I don't want town players to get lynched for my mislynch. Scum players are rejoicing because they have managed to direct another town mislynch. Lovely.

If we're going to play this game, I'm going to deflect like hell and create a case on Raider because that's the only player that the DGB-ites will believe.

EVERYONE: Do you think that there are two scum groups?

You say you don't want another mislynch if you end up being town. Then you say you're going to make a case on raider. I feel that's a bit contradictory.

I don't understand how this is contradictory Slicey, because of the fact that if Seraphim is not scum, it is very likely that raider is. How would you know that a raider lynch would create another "mislynch"? Are you aware that raider is town?

From all i read in (54) pages he came off most scummy looking out of everyone else still alive. Thus;

And you have yet to explain why.

Well to be honest I don't really have

my own opinion

just yet...because you have to play the game for a while to feel the vibes, positive and negatives. Being a replacement this late on isn't that easy. So yeah, I admit other players thoughts and indicators have come majorly into play. Although, I must add that I had already decided that you were the best choice, before even reaching Day 6.

This is very interested. So you admit that you examined later information using bias? And you admit that you don't have your own opinion on the issue, and don't even cite the "thughts and indicators" that cause you to believe that Seraphim is scum? Seriously?

That is your opinion....to be honest though I am not really fussed what you feel about it.
If my intuition is right....then you are scum and therefore you worrying about dying and scream scum scum scum left right and center is what I expected. Your not putting me in a guilt trip.

Dear god this post is scummy. If it wasn't one day to deadline millar.... if it wasn't one day to deadline...

Alright, whatever.

BTW, your intuition sucks. Of course I'm worried about dying...any good town should defend themselves. Putting a player at L-1 for NO REASON except for gut looks like easy, wagon vote to me.

Unvote
Vote: millar13

We've got scum here, people.

But Seraphim, what happened to

If we're going to play this game, I'm going to deflect like hell and create a case on Raider because that's the only player that the DGB-ites will believe.

Millar has played scummily, yes, but I don't think we can get 5 other votes (Not include mine) on Millar by tomorrow. This makes me think that both of you are scum and you're trying to force an NL.

Wow if that is the worst OMGUS i have ever seen in my life....the worst part about that action is you actually waited a couple of posts before posting to make it seem as if it wasn't OMGUS at all. You petty man

I shouldn't have to explain why this post is scummy. It just RADIATES.

Millars play has been awful, but I don't think enough players can vote him in time to save Seraphim from the noose. If they can however... between qanqan's play and THIS, I'm quite open to a millar lynch.

[PieIsPopcorn]

Unvote

Seraphim is practically confirmed town, due to that "twilight" claim. Therefore I'm going to my next suspect.

Vote: Millar13

QUICK WAGON GOGOGO

Raider- At this point I'm not sure if you're bussing Minn or Tony. But at the moment, the Millar wagon has so much more momentum it's insane. In addition, Millar has been extremely scummy since his replacement (See Post #1360), not to mention that Qanqan was just... wow. (Read him in isolation. I dare you.)

[PieIsPopcorn]

Can I just say that If I was scum....why would I have un-voted Seraphim if he was on death's door. Think about it

WIFOM itself is always going to be present in defenses... but this WIFOM is so massive that it doesn't even warrant comment.

I un-voted for you....after I realized that you actually thought you were dead "and thus thought you were in twilight" when you say your still town then, that is all you need to say.

that confirms that you are in fact town, and so should never receive a vote again

Not neccesarily. I've seen scum claim that they were still town after they died before, simply to psyche the town out. That is of course assuming that he did not know that riceball was already voting him, and it wasn't a massive gambit.

However, Seraphim is most probably town, and definately not our lynch today. The fact that you seem so CERTAIN that he's town, though, makes me think that you have information that town doesn't.

[PieIsPopcorn]

raider - why minineko and WIT over millar? Have you seen any of his posts?

After thinking about it a little more, I'm not so certain that it's a bus as much as him trying to avoid from committing to the Millar wagon, since it's the most likely one to lead to a lynch at this point. I would definately like an explanation from him how he could possibly believe that Mini/Minn/Whatever their name is or WIT are better lynches than Millar, and plausible to pull off, given our circumstances.

[PieIsPopcorn]

Whoa. That wasn't a hammer?

I want to read Slicey, raider, and millar/whoever millar replaced in isolation and then see where my vote stands.

Unvote

Seraphim is practically confirmed town, due to that "twilight" claim. Therefore I'm going to my next suspect.

Vote: Millar13

QUICK WAGON GOGOGO

Raider- At this point I'm not sure if you're bussing Minn or Tony. But at the moment, the Millar wagon has so much more momentum it's insane. In addition, Millar has been extremely scummy since his replacement (See Post #1360), not to mention that Qanqan was just... wow. (Read him in isolation. I dare you.)

I went back to read his post because I thought he role-claimed but it turns out you based this on him saying "screw you guys, I was town", which means zip. This is not a valid reason for unvoting him.

He had roleclaimed earlier. Anyway, I find his reaction posts pretty pro-town: (Quoted for convenience)

Oh wow.

Lynch RBT or millar tomorrow. Avenge my death.

I was town, BTW. More amazing scum railroading...

This not only reeks of genuine frustration, but also similar to something that I could definately see a townie that they felt that was being lynched unfairly saying. Like I said later, it isn't definitive, but it is definately enough to clear Seph to the point that he isn't the lynch today, in my opinion.