I have not spoken with my partner since we started yesterday, however my feeling knowing his play style is he was scumhunting, to see who would wagon and how you would react. Considering you have 4 votes already, I am gonna unvote...Apples and Banana wrote:Wait...are we being voted for the comment about wanting to tell the heads apart? If xofelf makes a post, and before we talk about it, I come online and there's a bunch of questions surrounding her post, I'm going to let her answer them. But if I have something else to comment on, I will. Hence wanting the poster to be differentiable, in my opinion.
Having said that, I agree with Yosariwen's point about PokertheAlpaca.
Vote: Poker
I actually think his stance is prudent, at least as an observation or even "word of caution". We need to be careful with our lynches, we can not afford three mislynches or this game could be over shortly after page 36. Those are my intial thoughts as far as the game and set-up...Frog Dodging wrote:Three scumkills would only end the game in a typical twelve player game if we also not only lynched three times in that period but all of those lynches were also mislynches. If you consider that furthermore we're fourteen players in this game, not twelve, it makes your stance even more bizarre.Raging Wishbone wrote:Vote apples and banana.Many apples, but just one banana?
Signing names does help the town in a way, but it also creates tons of confusion since it sorta turns this into a 28 player game. Not sure whether or not it's the right approach, it's quite easy to tell everyone you have a meta on by their style anyways.
I think this game should be over by page 31 (3 scumkills), 36 at the very worst. So less fluff and more substance, people.
I do think that it is optimal to lynch at least once for every scumkill, if possible.
I wasn't talking of ending the game, I was trying to take into account the max num. of pro-scum kills we could handle and keep the game balanced. I didn't take the vig/sk into account since he could be pro town, and I didn't feel like messing with my math. I fully realize this is oversimplifying things, but I was only trying to make a point.frog dodging wrote:Three scumkills would only end the game in a typical twelve player game if we also not only lynched three times in that period but all of those lynches were also mislynches. If you consider that furthermore we're fourteen players in this game, not twelve, it makes your stance even more bizarre.
I do think that it is optimal to lynch at least once for every scumkill, if possible.
could've waited until he had more to say. And of course, "I'll reread later" posts and the such are entirely redundant. This approach may slow down the game a bit, but I think the gain is worth it and anyways our energy is more needed elsewhere.pesco-town wrote:Gut read isn't as conclusive as a post of making a scummy excuse.
I disagree, nothing wrong with taking this game slow timewise as well. There's almost no downside to it, and our concentration in this game will be better once the other one is finished.incamn wrote:I know we are supposed to take this game slow PostCount-wise.. but that doesn't mean we have to take it slow time-wise. Why is there only, like, 3 posts today, by 2 different hydras. Keeping our post-count low only gives us any real advantage if we actually USE the advantage to lynch people. Ideally scum.
Not that I won't be very sad to see you go, but this has nothing to do with the vote at hand. I see nothing wrong with deciding on a suspect mostly based on gut when we're on page 5 and almost all discussion revolved around one player. And it's not like you're a stranger to "unsupported" votes, either.DGB wrote: It's because of idiotic unsupported votes like yours that I'm "generally bummed" and on my merry way to retiring.
Dude, who did we vote for? Read much? We discussed it and agreed it was a terrible idea and vote for A & B!J-Scope wrote:I think that’s a terrible idea. As long as an SK is alive they will try to win as themselves; they can’t win as town. If you think someone is SK you lynch them: no excuses!Raging Wishbone wrote:I think more likely SK, but as long as you kill whoever we tell you to I think we'll be better off keeping you alive for now.
...and actually before my partner permanently divorces me.. these psots between me and you Adel dont count towards the page limit do they? lol We were in twilight?Raging Wishbone wrote:Lol, err, not as a habit.... Mostly, I just can't resist Santa Claus and Goldie locks and finding other peeps who are drunk to play with.Saunt Adelaus wrote:Are you used to seeing "Festive" Asians holding mistletoe above their belts or something?
Dude are you sure i'm not? j/k, lol... Why are you still alive by the way?Frog Dodging wrote:You guys can start digging our grave once we're dead, and not a minute before, OK?
Since our mortality is on the line here, I feel it prudent to share every last thought I have on this game before our untimely demise. Raging Wishbone is quite inefficient at what they're trying to do. Yosariwen is way more downkey than I would expect. Look at them after our death. Sex club is a tad bit quieter than I would like. PTA and ZMD need to die already, especially PTA. Incamnito is one of the people that the town needs to start striving to act like. For someone saying so much about activity and whatnot, Ortohoops is extremely quiet. Death and Trotsky need to start speaking up. I have also heard absolutely nothing from nyball
Yes please prod: zmd, poka, and hoops. Thanks.Saunt Adelaus wrote:Does this game need a kick in the ass? I'm more than happy to prod people, so long as you specifically request it in the thread.
Actually it was RR who posted suspicions of you and it'ts me who wants to confirm you town. I kinda just wanted to see how you responded... Can I ask you an ethics question, would you feel comfortable winning as scum after DGB's post?Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:For a lot of this game I seem to recall you saying you weren't comfortable with us on a gut level. Why the mind change?Raging Wishbone wrote:Zaphod = Town (free pass)
Caught the SK; excellent. Now I need to go back for more tells and analysis. Grrr
ROFL, dude I spent 20 hours on Alpha on endgame and was wrong, glad you had a good two hours. Korts post was fine!Yosariwen wrote:Korts, for the love of God, please don't waste posts like that. There was absolutly no reason for you to make 2 posts in a row there. For that matter, there's no reason for you to be posting at all before you read the whole game; read the whole game, and then post all your thougts at once.
Seriously? I spent 2 hours last night doing a hyper-detailed analysis of everything in the entiere game and every single person in the game, probably the longest and most meticulasly reserached scumhunting post I've done in any game all year, and that's your response? I find that kind of strange, honestly.Ortohoops wrote: Yoswen's post is far scummier though.
...or genius we saw something you didn't.Yoswen (179) wrote:*10. PoketheAlpaca (PokerFace+populartajo) : Along with the other things that have been pointed out, possible link to Raging Wishbone, in this post where he defends Raging wishbone.
Poke the Alpaca wrote: We disagree with your opinion here. Both town and scum could want to keep a claimed Vig alive. That way the "vig" would kill people for them
* Scum would want "Vig" to wipe out town. Direct the "vig" to kill other townies
* Town would want "Vig" to kill scum
It is a null tell. If RW is town they clearly did not realize Town has infinite lynches and wouldn't need to direct the vig.
This ain't the Alpha game, I know Tajo will flip town and it ain't cause I am scum! But than again he aint getting lynched today I hope!Yosariwen wrote:Interesting you should say that; I was just think your absurd reaction here (which is basically you attacking me for daring to find Raging Wishbone to be somewhat scummier then PTA) very, very much increases the possibility of you being scum with Raging Wishbone, especally if Poke the Alpaca flips town.
lol, meh wrong, lmao....Yosariwen wrote:I think we just found RW's scumbuddy here.
Fos:Ortohoops
-Yosariwen wrote:Nice try to come up with a Yos tell, though.
This is worth two posts.Yosariwen wrote:Ok.Vote:Raging Wishbone, our biggest suspect after that (exausting) re-read and analysis. (Also, it actually took 4 AIM posts to send this whole thing to Nuwen for comment before I posted it, haha)
PoketheAlpaca wrote:Sorry for the wall of text but then I'm sure you didn't want me to post more than once. Saunt Adelaus probably deserves a mod kill warning for posts 169 through 171
Kison&Spring wrote:My reaction to RagingWishbone's unvote was the same as Ortohoops' - the reason is that town would be more likely to consider the possible benefits of that claim being legit, and utilizing the kill of the vigilante without realizing that they already possess the potential to make up for it themselves with their limitless lynches. While it's only in the benefit of the SK to kill town, both serial killers and vigilantes *want* to kill scum. The more likely to give off the knee-jerk reaction of unvoting would be town.In this game:Ortohoops wrote:Respectfully disagree. Cross-kills (or additional, town-directed kills) = another way for scum to die. By eliminating another killing group scum substantially lower their probability of dying. This is also with the hindsight he actually was an SK- he still could have been a vig at that time. Are you actually suggesting scum are happy to leave potential vigs alive? It's not a sure town-tell but it's a strong one in this case.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8926
I PF was scum. And everybody (Town and Scum) tried to use DGB (Who was a very powerful Vig) to kill other players since you were allowed 2 day kills a day and or only 1 lynch. Not even for a second did my scum group think of killing DGB. We thought of ways to use here to kill others for us the entire time. We even planned to lynch her later because her kills of town made her look like scum because she killed sometimes without anybody asking her too. She could have gone after us at any moment, thought we were scum and shot us to pieces. But she didn't. We figured she wouldn't and we were right. In my experience Town and scum have equal reasons to keep any and all other killing roles alive. As long as a player is a use to you there is no reason to kill them. Our scum group in that game even had the power to day kill without DGB to some extent. We didn't need her, she could have killed us, but we kept her alive because she was useful. If someone is useful to you and your side, then there is no reason to get rid of them no matter what side you are on. And I can see ways an extra kill could benefit either side.
OMGUS is voting you just because you are voting me. We both gave reasons as to why we are voting each other. If no reason was given then it would be OMGUS. I gave a reason. The way you word it suggests that any time too players vote each other it is OMGUS. To prove that I was OMGUS you must prove my reasons were BS and I was voting you out of spite. Instead you said I was right about the way that first post could be fluff. So how was I BSing? I wasn'tOrtohoops wrote:But, I am aware that some of what "we" have posted in this game may be construed as fluff, which was why I was willing to forgive it from the other hydras, in the early game, up to a point. However PTA's constant diatribes about "fluff posting" become beyond hypocritical when they make not one but twocompletelyuseless posts on page 2, followed by a scummy PBPA. Of course then comes the unprompted unvote, and now a contrived OMGUS.
The above should also serve as a comprehensive reply to J-Scope as far as I'm aware.
...
Your case on Zaphod, quite frankly, sucks.
It seems to be based on the idea that not voting scum = scum.
Huh?^ Where you getting that part from?
However we know this is not the case when A&B is a flipped SK. It also contains an extremely vague and unsubstantiated assertion about their overall playing style (bolded), and another (hypocritical) reference to "time/post" wasting.
Vote: PokeTheAlpaca
Check the time stamp and words of these posts from our game
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 63#1642063
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 08#1645208
and compare them to these posts from the alpha game
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 65#1642065
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 06#1645206
Tajo was clearly under the wrong impression that these games were the same. He has to treat and learn from both of them and he should now have learned from these mistakes with recent postings not being of the same manner.
And what I explained was the feel I get from the postings. Call it gut if you want but DGB is not someone who strays away from a challenge or easily follows a group. Her running scared is like bigfoot. You are shocked to see it. And that was the impression I was getting. Plums post on A&B didn't seem to add anything in my point of view. I've played in games where people have used simular posts to camaflauge or try to look like everybody else. It would have been better if she analyze the wagon from a finished perspective not a growing one. That way she could find scum NOW. See if someone had bad reasoning while voting A&B and would be more likly scum. That would have been providing something new and helpful to the game not more of the same A&B is scummy. Thinking A&B was scummy was only useful when A&B was alive.
These comments here should also answer what J-scope asked here:_________________J-Scope wrote:I agree that it does nothing to help them or the relevant discussion but I don't think it's a scumtell. The whole post looks like a big stream of consciousness to catch up to the present, like the catchup post of someone who replaced in.PokeAlpaca wrote:Saying you find A&B scummy now does absolutly nothing. Its just a pathetic attempt to look like everybody else.
Why don’t you think DGB would do this as town? I think she’s normally a free voter. The first six posts were a little extreme; some had a joking attitude or the intention of prodding a lurker, but none looked like they were trying to hide the fact that they were jumping on a person. I think it’s probably just a personality of the players, not the alignment.PokeAlpaca wrote:They have agreedwith others/wagon jumped at times convienant to when others have been pressuring them.
Plum wrote:This was part of what I was getting at in my suspicions of PoketheAlpaca. Asked for content, gives not really. I also dislike their attack on Ortohoops, to some degree, anyway. I explained why their vote on A&B wasnothypocritical.
PoketheAlpaca on Ortohoops wrote:I don't get this either. Part of the case being expressed on A&B is their posting wasn't really adding much to the game. Saying Scum wouldn't do it because they'd get attacked for being scummy is stupid. Scum are more likly to be scummy. If scum were never scummy, how would we catch them? You sound like you want to attack those that conserve posts and you don't certainly seem to be doing or voting for that. Like you're being a hypocrite.And I did not bye your explanation. They should be explaining why, not you. Its their vote not yours.
No, Ortohoops seems to want to attack those who immediately jump on those not being extremely conservative with posts.
If that was the case they would have voted themselves for voting me by now
If DGB is frustrated and/or wants to quit the site, that's her business. I would feel comfortable winning as scum so long as I didn't use that post of hers as some sort of excuse or explanation for why I couldn't be scum, and I played the game for my hydra and alignment as best I could. It would be stupid of you to try to use that toconfirmme town anyway. That's hypothetical and irrelevent, though, because I don't happen to be scum.
I never said I would use it for that. I said the only purpose it seems to fufill is showing you agreeing with everybody that A&B is scum. And that sort of thing poses no use to getting new scum. Only thing it could be would be a pathetic attempt to make you look like everybody else. That was the feel I got from it. if you'll look at what I said earlier you'd see that what town should have done was try to analyze the wagon and see if vote X was bad reasoned and made player X scum
...
I told you that I had been busy and had let DGB fill most of our collective duties here, and I apologized for not being about too much. I felt I wed it to the game to do a complete, thorough reread, and saw no reason not to offer it up to everyone. I had to really get into this game and this was the best way I saw to do it. I do realize that not everything in my last post was still entirely relevent, but I think that it was a decent option, overall. If you can explain why it was more likely that I'm scum trying to look town than town/anyone trying to really catch up in the game and be open about all my thoughts on what's happened . . . I don't see a compelling reason for you to not be treating it as a nulltell.
...
You felt the need to make this point and yet you yourself didn't have a suspect to put your vote on at least semi-seriously. At least DGB was poking the lurkers; I'd say there's some value in that.
Vote: PoketheAlpaca
More later; am being kicked off the computer.
I move my vote when I find scum or think someone isn't. That's the way I've always done it. If I think Korlash isn't scum and don't have a new suspect
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 05#1177205
I don't revote. My vote serves a purpose while a random vote at that point served absolutly no purpose. She could have commented on the game that had started but instead she went straight back to the random stage.I never said one was better than the other. What I said back there was Let's lynch them both.j-scope wrote:Also, why is Orto a better choice than Zaphod, PtA?My response to thisme wrote:We are willing to lynch both Zaphod and ortohoops. Willing to run them up asap.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 95#1669295
I wasn't attacking ortohoops for lack of content but attacking them primarily for their logic.
They said our wagon was oportunistic and that scum wouldn't post fluff; they helped lynch A&B with that attitude. They said my wagon was originally oportunistic and scum would avoid fluff; now they are on our wagon and say scum would do fluff. They said we fluff posted; Hoops did some too.
Basically they are going back on some key points of their logic as well as commiting things they once deemed wrong. I see that as hypocracy.
Vote: Ortohoops
Ok I must have the underlined part of that.Kison&Spring wrote:I think that's a bit of a stretch.Zaphod stated in their post prior to voting that they would be doing so if Apples and Banana's claim was 'unsatisfactory'.Additionally, Trotsky/Raging Wishbone never pressured them into voting A&B but voted for a lack of erratic behavior from DGB.
Trotsky and RW went after zaphod here and here
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 07#1655207
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 17#1660917
The very next post after each of those is a vote by Zaphod. Call it IRC habbit if you want but I related her moving then to something tthat had just happen thinking their votes could have influenced DGB's response. Still I think I'll re-read zaphod later with the underlined in mind.
Up until the alpha game played out, i had a good meta on Yosarian. EVERY game where I had seen him random vote he was town. EVERY game where he hadn't he was scum. He random voted in Alpha and I thought he could be town there and scum here. He was scum in alpha so I'm wondering if the town tell falling out there effects his non-random vote-age here. Haven't figured it out yet so that's why I have not really followed on it and been more so waiting for Yos's acknowledgement of those questions. If anybody wants to see a list of what game I had used to make that meta they can. The Alpha game was the first I ever saw to disprove the town tell I got on Yos and nothing yet has gone against the scum one.Ojando wrote:I dislike implying credit for discussion by doing something questionable.
Also not quite seeing how the RVS questions from ortohoops to incamn and PtA to Yosariwen actually were meant to advance the game - they seem like questions for the sake of appearing to ask questions (also Yos never answered and PtA didn't seem to care)
Edit while previewing:I read the thread and write a post and start getting ready for work and ortohoops posts. I'll read their last post later. Ain't got the time to right now
I thought Poker's post was extremely articulate, reasoned well...and if you clicked on every link he pointed out, well then you have done as much homework as me... If you ain't then don't talk to me! j/k, lolOjando wrote:@Raging WishboneThis is the second time you say strongly that you find PTA town, I wish you would just get on and give your reasons for thinking so already.RW wrote:This ain't the Alpha game, I know Tajo will flip town and it ain't cause I am scum! But than again he aint getting lynched today I hope!
You call Ortohoops' case on Yos brilliant, but at the same time that case relied mostly on the suspicion that PTA is scum. Contradiction?
Debating the entire sk/vig convo, wether it was a RIGHT call or wrong call is mute in my humble opinion. We NAILED an SK, it was the right call yeah?Ortohoops wrote:I'm actually not liking either of the last two posts very much.
You haven't actually explained why her action was "questionable", you just seem to be bandwagoning with a whole bunch of other people who have attacked her "suggestions for approaching the game" style posting.Ojando (178) wrote:Ortohoops post 39
It's almost kind of ironic that my non-game related post has sparked more game related discussion than almost all the random votes.
I dislike implying credit for discussion by doing something questionable.
I will address this point here though, it's been brought up by many people and I've no doubt it's a genuine attitude that you can't rule out Hoops simply having tried to get through the game by making "suggestions to approaching the game" type posts while neglecting any actual scumhunting. I would bring up the counterpoint that she did exactly the same thing in Alpha, where you now know we were town, and where I think it had pro-town consequences. Additionally, I have come at things from a totally different tangent. Thus I think one of the main reasons we've been criticised for it is simply due the limited-posting-based nature of the game.
What is the point here? What have you concluded from the fact they didn't bother to answer our questions?Ojando (178) wrote:Also not quite seeing how the RVS questions from ortohoops to incamn and PtA to Yosariwen actually were meant to advance the game - they seem like questions for the sake of appearing to ask questions (also Yos never answered and PtA didn't seem to care)
You're bringing a startling lack of substance to the allegations against us. Once you label an original post as "fluff", that obligates us to respond do it, yet all you can say about the response is "oh that's fluff" again. You fail to go into any detail why. I've offered an explanation for why she might have posted what she did, I've agreed it might have been a bit sloppy, and additionally made the point that in the scheme of useless posting in this game we are probably in the bottom half of players anyhow. You haven't told me why my defence was fluff, and seem to want to draw us into a vicious circle whereby any defence of our previously labeled "fluff posting" is again labeled as "fluff posting"Ojando (178) wrote:Ortohoops 154 - ortolan is defending Hoopla's fluff with fluff.
The vote on PTA is appreciated, but your meritless attacks on us give me pause.
Yoswen's post is far scummier though.
I don't understand what the point of telling us this was, unless you're trying to get after-the-fact townpoints by saying you were willing to let a claimed SK/vig live.Yosariwen (179) wrote:I was actually about to hammer A&B around the end of page 4; I thought he was scum for a lot of reasons, especally shaft.ed's "if they weren't scum, scum would have killed someone not on the wagon to lynch them" argument. (Which, actually, apparently wasn't true, which is interesing.) But then I decided to wait and give them one more chance to respond first; and I didn't want to spend a post just to SAY "I'm thinking about hammering you" like I would in a normal game.
The following is very, very, very scummy:
Basically, you want to lynch twice within the next four pages, and "want to get a bandwagon going quickly here." In your leaning scum list, you have both Raging Wishbone, and PokeTheAlpaca. PokeTheAlpaca's wagon had four votes on it, Raging Wishbone's had zero. I cannot understand how you can simultaneously want as many lynches as quickly as possible, and blatantly be trying to start a new wagon. This very, very much increases the probability of you being scum with PTA.Yoswen (179) wrote:On a side note, if we could get together a second lynch today (that is, before end of page 12), and basically try to get off about 2 lynches a day, I think it would work to our advanage; 2 lynches/day would give us a favorable town kill/scum kill ratio without totally shutting down town night actions, if we can manage it while not being stupid . We also ideally want to make sure that person has a chance to claim before being hammered, though, so I think we want to a bandwagon going quickly here. (Also, for this reason, I think the pro-town thing to do here is for us to vote for someone during this post, rather then posting and not using our vote, and I will, although as of this point I honestly haven't decided who yet.)
You also then blatantly equivocate between your contrary desires:
So...now you want as many comments as possible on the wagon, prolonging the time it will take to lynch which you said just before you wanted to shorten? Your defence also makes no sense: "he's acting scummy but...I don't think he's scum".Yoswen (179) wrote:However, the ease of the wagon on PoketheAlpaca seems off to me; it seems too easy, no one seems to disagree with it at all. I can't quite explain it; I see scumtells and they look scummy on their own, but the wagon feels like it might be scum supported to me, or at least not scum opposed, if that makes sense; no one is arguing against this wagon, or trying to start a competing wagon, and that feels like a bad sign to me. Nuwen says she would like to see more people comment on this wagon.
Another point:
I find it hard to believe you could be so unconvinced by our case on PTA in 154 (you never actually say what you have wrong with it), yet independently also come to the conclusion that they are scummy (while not voting them).Yoswen (179) wrote:I'm not really getting Ortohoop's case against poke the alpaca in post 154; could you explain that again in your next post, please?
Really don't like the misdirection in deferring the read to "mostly being Nuwen's" here. You also totally fail to explain what motivation a mafia player could have for wanting an extra town-directed kill in play. Your case is very, very weak; another reason you distracting from the PTA wagon is scummy.Yoswen (179) wrote:*12. Raging Wishbone (Raging Rabbit+WaltWishbone): This one is mostly Nuwen's read; she dislikes the way that they put A&B at lynch -1 right after it was pointed out that putting someone at lynch -1 is dangerous, and also the way the other head then unvoted in order to try and use the kill. I agree; the post where Raging Wishbone unvotes and tries to get us to keep A&B alive so we can "direct their kill" is really anti-town to me, especally since town can lynch multiple times a day anyway. Nuwen also thinks their post 131 looks kind of "fluffy", in a scummy kind of way. (Funny side note: once slipped and called Pesco-Light "Pesco-Town". I have no idea if that means anything, but seems worth mentioning while I'm thinking abut it.)
You've actually entirely misinterpreting this, because PTA wasYoswen (179) wrote:*10. PoketheAlpaca (PokerFace+populartajo) : Along with the other things that have been pointed out, possible link to Raging Wishbone, in this post where he defends Raging wishbone.
Poke the Alpaca wrote: We disagree with your opinion here. Both town and scum could want to keep a claimed Vig alive. That way the "vig" would kill people for them
* Scum would want "Vig" to wipe out town. Direct the "vig" to kill other townies
* Town would want "Vig" to kill scum
It is a null tell. If RW is town they clearly did not realize Town has infinite lynches and wouldn't need to direct the vig.notdefending RWat all, but actually trying to argue against our point that RW wanting to keep the SK/vig alive was a town-tell. This also shows how little sense your stance on RW/PTA makes, because you speculate about a connection between both RW and PTA, while deliberately neglecting one wagon in favour of starting another.
I think Yoswen is scum with PTA and is trying both to derail his wagon and tie RW to him if he gets lynched regardless and flips scum.
For me the largest part of your argument was not that Tajo and Yo/Nuw were partners, but that your points of how yo/nuw were acting scummy seemed very true... again, I just cant undertstand why he keeps apologizing for his partner? I dont get his vote on me at all (so yeah meebe I omgussed a bit) and offering yim chats? She is a smart girl let her post!ortolan wrote:This is pretty much a point made with a sample size of one in a game with different circumstances. In this game the vidge/SK gets to make a new kill every action phase in a smallish game. Additionally not knowing whether they are town or self-aligned makes their actions unpredictable to other scum-players. Scum players would also potentially be scared of town reaching consensus on who the vidge/SK should kill and targetting them or their scumbuddies. Finally I see him as, if he was scum, wanting to not have to waste his kill on him that action phase (surely he'd prefer to get him lynched and choose a different target). As I said it's not an overwhelming town tell but I still view it as a town tell nonetheless.PTA (182) wrote:In this game:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8926
I PF was scum. And everybody (Town and Scum) tried to use DGB (Who was a very powerful Vig) to kill other players since you were allowed 2 day kills a day and or only 1 lynch. Not even for a second did my scum group think of killing DGB. etc. etc.
This summarises the main two points we are being attacked for this game: the first is supposedly "fluff posting" while attacking others for fluff posting. Now I acknowledge that some of what Hoops posted was sloppy, especially when she then wanted to attack other people for wasting posts. However, in the scheme of things, none of our posts have been as wasteful as for example PTA's or Zmd's or Death The Hogfather's or Korts' or J-Scope's or Zaphod Beeblebrox's; all of whom have made at least one postPTA (82) wrote:They said our wagon was oportunistic and that scum wouldn't post fluff; they helped lynch A&B with that attitude. They said my wagon was originally oportunistic and scum would avoid fluff; now they are on our wagon and say scum would do fluff. They said we fluff posted; Hoops did some too.
Basically they are going back on some key points of their logic as well as commiting things they once deemed wrong. I see that as hypocracy.entirelydevoid of game or meta related content from my brief check of the last few pages.
The other point is that "our" read on PTA differed between different points in the game. As should have been obvious from for example, the difference in purple and black text, that was two different people reading. Hoops made the first post without consulting me, and while I was doing Alpha I kind of expected her to post here but she had to move countries so when we got prodded I took it upon myself to make the post and could not ignore PTA's blatant scumminess- I could not consult her at the time and still haven't had a proper opportunity to talk to her about this game. Nevertheless, I very much disagree with PTA's wagon being "opportunistic". So, PTA, with my rebuttal to these two points in mind, I would urge you to very strongly reconsider your view you are not OMGUSing us, as neither of your points have merit imo (your case against us in light of these points is even weaker which leads me to wonder how much scumhunting rather than OMGUSing scum-style you're actually trying to do).
Weeeeeak vote.Korts (183) wrote:i agree with pokethealpaca on zaphod trying hard to look pro-town with her post-lynch a+b analysis. her defense hinges on people actually caring whether she found the already lynched sk scummy. all in all it looks like padding for her post.
vote zaphod
Except they're not scum with A&B?Korts (183) wrote:the vig claim would obviously be stupid as mafia, it was from zaphod's initial ignorance of the a+b wagon that we suspected her, and the sudden switch and hard push on it implied hard bussing--which we would expect dgbscum to do in such a case.
Um, you've made at least two entirely useless posts in this game (see your subsequent post, 184, as well as 174). This puts you on far, far worse footing than us, however hypocritical you want to be; sorry about that. Consider a self-vote though.Korts (183) wrote:the pta vs. ortohoops argument is pretty hypocritical of both re the fluffposting. both are reasonable wagons. we'll have to review them more seriously to have a solid opinion.
WIFOM? This being valid hinges on you actually being town.Yosariwen (185) wrote:Seriously? I spent 2 hours last night doing a hyper-detailed analysis of everything in the entiere game and every single person in the game, probably the longest and most meticulasly reserached scumhunting post I've done in any game all year, and that's your response? I find that kind of strange, honestly.
The point I am making is that calling for faster lynches then avoiding a healthy wagon on your "second" largest suspect in favour of your supposed first is disingenuous. And how can you prove your earlier vote on PTA wasn't simple distancing??? Your point about the "easy and unopposed wagon" I also do not like- that is an extremely subjective notion and you could potentially make that argument of pretty much any bandwagon in the game. Plus you've seen people's subsequent reticence in joining the PTA wagon anyhow. I also note you rely on the implied hypocrisy of our apparent "shift in opinions" here.Yoswen (185) wrote:Yes, I would like to. Of course, lynching scum is more important then lynching quickly. Also, 4 pages is 100 posts; that should be pleanty of time to lynch someone (unless people keep wasting posts like Korts just did there).Ortohoops wrote:Basically, you want to lynch twice within the next four pages, and "want to get a bandwagon going quickly here."
Because I want to lynch scum, and for reasons i explained, Raging Wishbone looks scummer to both me and to Nuwen then PTA does.I cannot understand how you can simultaneously want as many lynches as quickly as possible, and blatantly be trying to start a new wagon.
Remember, I *STARTED* the poke the alpaca wagon. I understand why he looks suspicious, and I continued to point out scumtells in the post I just made. However, if he was scum, I would kind of expect the wagon to not feel quite so easy and unopposed. In fact, the only person who was opposed to the PTA wagon so far was...you, who said at the time:
Ortohoops wrote:At the moment, the PokeTheAlpaca wagon looks very opportunistic.
Where did I say I didn't want people commenting on his wagon? All I have said is that your position of both wanting more lynches while starting fresh new bandwagons and neglecting those of people you admit to find scummy is inconsistent.Yoswen (185) wrote:People are posting and not commenting on the wagon at all, which I don't like. Are you really suggesting that it's scummy for me to want people to comment on a wagon before we lynch someone? How the hell do you expect to find scum if you want to just lynch people without any discussion about them? In fact, if you really are a pro-town person who really do think PTA is scum; if you really did think he was scum, you should be DEMANDING that EVERYONE post comments about him before the lynch, because that would help us find scum partners later. I can't understand why any pro-town person would be opposed to people commenting on the PTA lynch before it happens; you need to explain this to me.
If PTA's buddiesYoswen (185) wrote:The fact that no one is trying to do that either means the other scum are willing to just bus PTA, or else that the wagon is a bad one; the feel *OF THE BANDWAGON* on PTA is making me kind of nervous.werebusing him it still would be a fantastic wagon. I don't see how a *feel* can simultaneously make you think someone is being bused; or they are town and not being bused- surely those two circumstances would have unique and distinct tells?
Wait didn't you say you wantedYoswen (185) wrote:If we get close to the (admittadly arbitraty) page 12 "deadline" I set, I might be willing to jump to the PTA wagon to secure a lynch before then. But there's absoltuy no reason to rush things; we've still got 4 pages left, and he's already at lynch -2, we have lots of time to explore other options, especally since he just looks scummier then PTA.twolynches an action phase? Why would you switch wagons at an arbitrary point in day 12 anyway (apart from it being just before a new action phase)?
How does observing apparently the same things as you constitute "riding your coattails"? Why is it not plausible that you attempted to distance from PTA and are now trying to undermine his wagon having seen it go too far?Yoswen (185) wrote:That was the argument I used to start the PTA wagon in the first place. So don't act like you "don't understand why I find them scummy" when YOU are trying to ride MY coattails to attack them, ok?
I don't even understand your point about Zaphod not voting- I just looked back and they were voting the whole time and were actively commenting on the A&B wagon while it was going on. It's also funny that you comment on this while seemingly completely ignoring PokerFace's almost total and blatant ignoring of the situation in post 99. Apart from this, again, I ask, explain to you what was illogical about our attacks on PTA- I've asked you to clarify twice now and you totally ignore the question.Yoswen (185) wrote:I am curious about the other arguments you were trying to use in 154, because the REST of the arguments you were using to attack him seemed pretty illogical to me, and I would like you to explain them. Especally wher you attack him because he attacked Zaphod for not voting; "not voting" is generally a decent scumtell, and especally in a game like this where you should really be using your vote at all times.
Although apparently, rather then explain your attacks on PTA, or respond to my reasons for thinking Raging Wishbone looks scummier, you'd rather just attack anyone who dosn't blindly follow you. Nice.
It seemed to me you wanted to have it both ways and were introducing Nuwen's supposed read as a way of segueing from supporting a PTA lynch to an RW lynch. I thought you yourself were disowning responsibility for the attack on RW- if you yourself are happy to support your hydra's attack on RW I would drop this point.Yoswen (185) wrote:Ok, your first sentance is complete garbage. Me and Nuwen were talking as I was writing that post, she made the observations, and I agreed with them. Why should it matter to you if the thought origionally came from me or from Nuwen? Why are you making such a big deal out of irrelevent side issues here?
The problem is these two don't work in conjunction. You are attempting to have your cake and eat it too. You want to call him scummy for being "careless" by leaving an SK on L-1, but you also want to attack him for not wanting the SK killed.Yoswen (185) wrote:First, the one head put him at lynch -1 without giving him a chance to claim, right after that had been pointed out to be anti-town, since scum can insta-lynch anyone who is at lynch -1 in this game by just daykilling someone not on the wagon. At the very least, this demonstrates a carelessness that looks scummy.
Then, the other head saying "let's keep the SK alive so we can direct him" is even worse, in my opinion.
I said it was anti-town, and it was. Anti-town means "bad for the town". There is absolutly no reason a pro-town person should want to keep a SK alive, just in order to "direct the kill." Especally in a game when town can lynch multiple times a day anyway.
Lynching a SK day 1 is one of the best things that can possibly happen for the town; it extends the game, means less nightkills, more lynches. In general, nightkills give the town much less information then lynches do, so they hurt the town more then they hurt the mafia.
Um...are you seriously claiming not to have understood the point we've just been contesting in the last serious of posts? And you think that's a justification for FoSing me at that????Yoswen (185) wrote:Wait...really?
You were trying to argue that RW wanting to keep the SK alive was a *TOWN* tell?
Hahaha.
Man, you make this easy. I think we just found RW's scumbuddy here.Fos:Ortohoops
No hard feelings, friend.Raging Wishbone (186) wrote:@Othohoops - great gane in Alpha, I am sorry I was pressured on time and did not know if RR would have a chance to check the thread before I returned today... He called JScope scum in daytalk and I screwed it up by not voting with ya! *gah* I almost quit tooo!, lol
Posting these notes here because Adel locked the Alpha thread and I owe Hoops, Raging Rabbit an apology for botching that game, I also owe Jscope sincere props and Kudos...also thanks to Adel for setting these games up...
*pinches Santa Claus ass*
I am kind of curious about this- we seem to agree that Yosarian is suspicious but in my mind that's largely because of the way he's detracting from the PTA wagon, while you're assuring us he's obv-town.Raging Wishbone (186) wrote:This ain't the Alpha game, I know Tajo will flip town and it ain't cause I am scum! But than again he aint getting lynched today I hope!
I would like to see you attack the large number of people who are even more guilty of it than us even harder then please.Ojando (187) wrote:See the bolded part from the quote. I wouldn't have thought that needed clarification in this game. Post wasting is inherently bad, since it was on first page I labeled it questionable instead of a stronger word.
Believe me if I was scum I would try far harder to ensure our opinions supposedly appeared "united".Ojando (187) wrote:That did come out more in a self-note mode.
We were referring to the "the other half did it" defence. Your heads seem to have very different take on things and that could be a convenient way to contradict yourself without having to take responsability. That being said, at the moment we are much more interested in pursuing PtA whose heads contradict timewise simultaneously in their attack and defence.
I second this question.Ojando (187) wrote:This is the second time you say strongly that you find PTA town, I wish you would just get on and give your reasons for thinking so already.
You call Ortohoops' case on Yos brilliant, but at the same time that case relied mostly on the suspicion that PTA is scum. Contradiction?
Um how exactly?Yos (188) wrote:Ok, now trying to bring emotion from the Alpha game, when I was scum, into the game here in order to manipluate the town. Scum tactic.
He is at four votes which is actually L-3.Yos (188) wrote:Interesting; he's at lynch -2 now, and Ortohoops entire post was him attacking me because I didn't put him at lynch -1 now. So why are you attacking me here?
???Yos (188) wrote:Although I think you're still just talking about the alpha game here, which again, is scummy.
Fair point.Yos (188) wrote: Again, in this game, his ENTIRE CASE on me was based on me not wanting to put PTA at lynch -1 just yet. How can you think his case on me is "brilliant" if you don't think PTA is scum?
You soundYos (188) wrote:RW is obvscum here, and we need to lynch him now.verycertain here.
I concur, your excellency.Zaphod Beeblebrox (189) wrote:@ Yosariwen
I don't understand why you're voting RW when Poke is another main suspect of yours, has a far larger wagon, and you think Poke may be RW's buddy. To wit: "*10. PoketheAlpaca (PokerFace+populartajo) : Along with the other things that have been pointed out, possible link to Raging Wishbone, in this post where he defends Raging wishbone. "
Your expressed reasons are, again, weak.Yos (190) wrote:Because RW is far scummier.
Tajo is kind of scummy; he's more likely to be scum then a random lynch. On the other hand, RW is incredibly obvscum, especally after that last post of theirs where they came up with a series of really illogical and contradictory excuses to OMGUS vote me (while specifically denying they were OMGUS voting, of course) and tried to manipulate the town using the alpha game.
If we lynch tajo, I won't be unhappy, but I really want to lynch RW right now.
Two down, two to go.... Hmmm.......Gee, J-scope, now that Alpha is over you can add in the details to your fake daytalk from that game, please do so....J-Scope wrote:Looking back at Sex with shaft.ed’s wife’s posts I don’t see PoketheAlpaca as a likely partner of them. Much of their post 164 was dedicated to building up a serious case on Alapca and they didn’t push the case on Trotsky nearly as far.This to me looks like an attempt to group the two together by saying he’d be okay with lynching both. But at the same time SWSSC only had a minor point about Trotsky while making a big case on Alpaca. I don't see them preparing to move off the Alpaca wagon with only a few pages left in the day.SWSSC wrote:At this point I'm not liking Trotsky or PtA. I'd like more pressure on the former, but have a clearer read on the latter. So let's do both, we've got all they lynches we want.
Post 175 looks like an attempt to push the Alpaca lynch before the Trotsky lynch. Shaft.ed’s post 200 doesn’t change my opinion about how they were treating Trotsky or Alpaca. Therefore I think Alpaca is very unlikely to be a scumbuddy with Shaft.ed.
I need to see if anyone else interacted with shaft.ed but right now I’d be more confidant in a RW lynch than a Alpaca one. I'll probably vote them after a read of shaft.ed interactions and more looking at RW and Yosariwen's AIM chats. I don't like the Trotsky or Ortohoops wagon, and I don't think Yosariwen is scum. I'm still not sure about ZMD; they just haven't said or done enough.
unvote
Very cool Bro, please post a screencap, so we can match it to Alpha screencap?J-Scope wrote:You can't trust any of the PMs or QTs I made in alpha because they were fake, and I had faked the censored beta stuff too to make it look more realistic.Raging Wishbone wrote:Gee, J-scope, now that Alpha is over you can add in the details to your fake daytalk from that game, please do so....
I didn't say anything substantial about beta in the QT because alpha was the main game at the time of my posts whereas beta was only around page 3. After about the first week I had accepted that K-Scope and I weren't going to be playing as one person so I didn't confer anything with him.
Here is the only post I mentioned beta though. It was the first post of the QuickTopic:
Aww, look at me trying to setup a mislynchJahudo wrote:Hi. I realized that we should probably have some kind of private communication.
Let me know if I'm talking too much or looking too wishy-washy. There are some things that we should probably decide on together before we post. You can rein me in if I'm saying something stupid on alpha.
In alpha, I'm starting to pressure Ortohoops and I feel like an Apples/Banana vote or a Trotsky vote could be orchestrated. Pesco could be the biggest target now but I don't know if we should join that bandwagon now. We are already tied to them through Incamnito though. What do you think?
In beta, we need to post something but I can't think of a worthwhile thing to say.
That post was made April 28 which correlates to page 3 of beta. You can guess that I had been waiting for K-Scope to talk to me before I made anything more than a random vote, which is why my first substantial post didn't happen until April 29.
NO, NO, noooooo, lol OJ, this was not clear, there were some minor semantic wonderings and all. Nice try, but the Question has NOW been answered here....Ojando wrote:Umm, no.Raging Wishbone wrote:"Another one Bites the dust"... I think it is safe to now assume A & B lied about killing FrogDodge and submitted a Sex wi5th Ed kill... Thanks..
I find it utterly strange that you are or pretend to be so clueless about the game mechanic when this has been spelled out to you already, IIRC after the lynch of A&B. SWSWC was killed ridiculously much later than 30 hours after A&B's last breath, so it can't have been A&B.
Either Frog dodging had protection or then A&B lied to piss them of or something. And we must still have someone alive outside of the mafia that can kill.
It seems to me, YOU are the one who was confussed and has been passing out bad information! I do think it is utterly strange the way you are or pretend to be so clueless as to the mechanic of this game... There are other scenarios including a Doctor, BUT have you not ever heard of Occam's Razor? Anyways, thanks but the rules are pretty clear now, no matter how badly you tried to confuse the subject.Saunt Adelaus wrote:
Looking through my messages, I see that I've sent out some mixed signals.
"Possible Roles
All roles that appear in the game are from this list. Not every role in this list is used in the game. This setup will include 1 Mafia Group of 3 players, AND at least 1 Compulsive Vig OR 1 Sk."
the "OR" is exclusive. There can't be a vig left in the game since there was a SK, but there might be 1 or more additional SKs left in the game.
A&B lied or he did not! There was either a RB, Doc protect OR A&B told the truth and tried to kill FrogDodge but could not cause he is a SK. I'll get back to this...Saunt Adelaus wrote:
My post was a simulpost with yos/nuw... I dont need to "convincingly explain anything to anyone", we "Cross-posted".. Read much? I am not going to explain again how OFF it is for him to call her inexperienced after Heavens Gate! Regardless, I think they are the closest thing to town we have, why do I need to explain more? Wanna another wall O'Text, no prob (j/k, lol)...Ojando wrote:Yosarian said that their case on you guys was originally Nuwen's read. That's the only thing I can understand you were referring to, this whole inexperienced thing comes from alpha and imo never surfaced in beta. Even though you changed your mind, unless you convincingly explain your thought process about where exactly you thought Yos was defending Nuwen ITT (with quotes) I'm gonna perceive that accusation as twisted enough to be quite scummy.Raging Wishbone to nyball wrote:I am not going to change my opinion of how off it feels for Yos to defend Nuwen, however I will give you this point they WERE scum in Alpha and I absolutely do not feel they are scum here anymore. Dude she kicked our asses in Heavens Gates, so for him to say she is inexperienced is off in my humble opinion. Regarding your further comments again me and Nuwen simulposted... My response was NOT to her aim logs...
lol, meh I don't blame ya.... What part of UNVOTE do you not understand? It was a good, safe vote at the time, same as you...see I learned from "one of the best" DGB...she likes to just push buttons and form wagons to see who will follow...Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:RW, I don't always expect great things of you, but your case on Yosariwen frankly sucks. I do not see a compelling enough meta argument to begin to justfy your vote there. Wait. Wait wait wait. I noticed that Sex Club was early on the A&B wagon. Where was RW? His random vote went there. Then Sex Club came along, then Pesco Light (now Nybs) then Trotsky (PtA, let this be a mini-analysis of that wagon looking for possible scum opportunism &c., as you asked; it was a reasonable request). This is all on page 1-2. Sex Club also attacked PtA early.
What part of lynching an sk do you not like? Please enlighten me with your wisdom as I would really ike to know why it was not good we lynched A&B!Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:Back to RW. After maybe trying not to lynch A&B so darn quickly, or something, whatever it was, he votes them to L-1 (they'd been there on and off for about that whole page) for 'being scum'. That's about the most explicit he got there.
Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:I agree with the above extracts from your post. I could definitely give a Trotsky or RW lynch a shot. As in, a shot in the head.
Raging Wishbone wrote:I am so glad you agreee with the above, but no where in SexEd's post did she indicate she wanted me lynched... Spin conversations much?
Yeah, and the fact that she practically declared J-scope Town in that post did not enter your cute lil mind Plum? I bet it entered a few other Townies minds.Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:'Oh noes, shaft.ed's subtle defenses of me aren't taking root in the minds of the town!'? Fair possibility. Hmph.
Raging Wishbone wrote:Not hating this plan, BUT I dont want to quick lynch people I think are town... I also would like to here what my partner says when he gets back, but, at this point this is the best scum read I have....
FOS: Trotsky
FOS: ZMD
GAH, lol... No that was a manipulative load of crap wasn't it Plum? That post of mine covered, the previous thirty or so "long posts" and took a lot of fucking time! So please don''t try to imply because I decided to FOS instead of Voting for someone that it is scummy, lol... meh fine you want a vote!Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:No! Remember, even you noted that we're sorta on a post budget here! Always having your vote somewhere is especially necessary. FOSes with out votes are suspicious.
Ojando wrote:Way to dodge.Raging Wishbone wrote:My post was a simulpost with yos/nuw... I dont need to "convincingly explain anything to anyone", we "Cross-posted".. Read much? I am not going to explain again how OFF it is for him to call her inexperienced after Heavens Gate! Regardless, I think they are the closest thing to town we have, why do I need to explain more? Wanna another wall O'Text, no prob (j/k, lol)...
Where did Yosarian imply that Nuwen is inexperienced IN THIS GAME? The simulpost has absolutely nothing to do with this, you talked about this in post 186, that was before the whole simulposting thing. A severely twisted accusation needs explaining even though you changed your mind.
No worries, not dodging; here is the quote where it is implied that there is something unusual about their post...Yosariwen wrote:I still don't think I've done this at all IN THIS GAME. If you're still talking about the Alpha game, I'm not sure how that's relevent here.
So perhaps it is a semantics error and I was combining Alpha and Beta a bit, but the fact is this comment insinuates misdirection, manipulation or some sort of implication of Yos trying to put something on Nuwen. Right or wrong; I perceived this as defensive and as Yos implying she was inexperienced (in otherwords why did yos say oh that was Nuwen, if he did not mean to once again imply she only wrote it because she was inexperienced?).. It was an off comment on his part and reminded me of Alpha! I was not the only one who noticed something wrong with the comment... At the time, I thought it was a valid point, but not anymore. I think their im chats were pretty convincing in such a short period of time and they are townish.Yosariwen wrote:Ok, your first sentance is complete garbage. Me and Nuwen were talking as I was writing that post, she made the observations, and I agreed with them. Why should it matter to you if the thought origionally came from me or from Nuwen? Why are you making such a big deal out of irrelevent side issues here?Ortohoops wrote:Really don't like the misdirection in deferring the read to "mostly being Nuwen's" here.
You and SexEd can say what you want about the importance of pm's, im's, qt's ect.... However me and RR are on page 61 of our qt's in addition to our pms on ms and msn conversations. Yos and Nuw have posted extensive pm logs for Beta...shaft.ed wrote:J-ScopeThanks for sharing the tidbit about falsifying logs. This is townie points for J-Scope. Although if scum, he might just not feel like being bothered to create fake logs
Not much, again it is the discussion it generates that is intriguing. The end of alpha sucked, but the im logs was what caught yos/nuw last game. I am far from declaring them town this game, but there im log was very convincing! By the way great case against Trotsky.Ortohoops wrote:Have you not yet been scarred enough by trying to clear people based on chat logs?
Trotsky is probably scum.
Err, same rules apply you can blot out any role information just like you did in alpha, however considering you have had a week to fabricate a fake log as J-Scope so kindly pointed out, I just don't see much of a futher conversation that will enlightne anyone... and for the record, it is ABSOLUTELT sportsmanlike and ethical, the most important thing is the discussions it generates not the logs themselves which is the "spirit of the game".Ortohoops wrote:And you want potential role information about us why exactly? And you still think, despite what I pointed out in Alpha, and what J-Scope has acknowledged, that we can't just fake the logs if we want to anyway by editing our posts and wiping out the edit stamp??? This insistence on the chat logs is not only relatively unsportsmanlike, it has already actively hurt the town in one game.
Please post every 72 hours as per the rules of the game.Ortohoops wrote:I beat the prod, please be wary with using them in future considering the nature of this game.
I am not completely convinced, however I buy enough of what you wrote to...J-Scope wrote:No, I posted the QT’s because you asked me to and for no other reason. I was perfectly content with warning the group about how I won as scum in alpha so as to prevent scum from winning that way.
The QT posts 5-8 was not for K-Scope to read. They never existed until I made them to trick you. And I showed you the real posts 1-4 which I am saying are the real deal.
I did not screencap my original QuickTopic to prove my innocence to anyone. I realize that what I am now calling real could very well be another fake. You have to judge for yourself based on my complete game here.
Yeah, well qt aside, you are slipping under the radar once again like alpha. So Kscope returned right before you won Alpha, are you telling me you had no communication with him/her?J-Scope wrote:I did not have a conversation with K-Scope that lasted 8 posts. Look at the timestamps and see where they correlate to the Alpha game. I’ll do it here:
Post 1 and 2 were made on April 28. Post 3 was made on April 29; Post 4 was made on April 30. So posts 1-4 correspond to action phase 1 and 2.
Posts 5 through 8 took place on May 12 which corresponds to our 3 person LyLo. It was during that action phase that I wrote those four posts and used photoshop to composite the content of Posts 5-8 onto the time stamps of Posts 1-4.
I feel like you are making this out to be a scumtell in our Beta game, when it clearly is only a tell for the Alpha game.
So you said two entirely differnt things there genius. So do we try to catch scum that way because it is where they will slip or do we not because it can be faked. You can't have it both ways.nyballosulgniirkps wrote:He raised a very valid point in that inter-hydra communication can be faked. He pulled it off successfully in the Alpha game. Whywouldn'the show that it can be done? His posting of the quicktopic also does not invalidate the potential use of the posting of conversations. If scum are going to fake their communications, that is where they will slip up, as we have already seen with Yosariwen in the Alpha game.
You say potatoe, I say potato.nyballosulgniirkps wrote:That doesn't sound like confidence at all. If you read the entirety oftheir post, you can see they spat out what they were thinking because,as they said, their mortality was on the line.
You first Genius.nyballosulgniirkps wrote:Are you kidding me? You're just going to jump to the conclusion that your suspected 'explanation' for Frog Dodge's survival is the correct one, simply because no role has yet to come forward and claim responsibility?
Die, scum.
It was a hard vote/choice and me and RR went back and forth a tad, however in the end we made the right vote. We did the same thing on Yos/nuw in Alpha... We just werent 100% sure and agreed it was the right call, so we (I) was wishy-washy, lol.PoketheAlpaca wrote:I don't believe you were exactly so certain yourself. You did seem to waver some on the prospect of A&B being an SK.http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 27#1653027
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 71#1654871
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 07#1655207
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 11#1656411
Also a few people brought up your actions of putting A&B at L-1 pre-claim, in the context of scum can feezibly kill someone not on the wagon at that time. The daykill of a player there would then shorten the max number of players in the game aswell as what would be needed for a majority lynch. This could then cause any player at L-1 to become auto-lynched since all votes on the wagon would not disapear. the only vote that would disappear would be that of the player not on the wagon. In general putting a player at L-1 carries some risk for the town. Risk mafia wouldn't need to worry about especially since A&B wasn't mafia.
J-Scope wrote:Whom I'm willing to lynch now (update it as you post):
1. Zaphod Beeblebrox (2) Ojando, J-Scope, Raging Wishbone
3. Zmd (4) Ojando, Ortohoops, nybaloosulgniirkps, J-Scope
4. Trotsky(4): nyballosulgniirkps, ZMD, Zaphod Beeblebrox, Ortohoops, Raging Wishbone
5. Ojando (1): ZMD
7. Yosariwen (1): nybaloosulgniirkps(?)
8. Ortohoops (1): ZMD
10. PoketheAlpaca (0):
11. nyballosulgniirkps (0):
12. Raging Wishbone (4): Zaphod Beeblebrox, Ojando, nyballosulgniirkps, J-Scope
13. J-Scope (0): Raging Wishbone
14. Frog Dodging (0)
Please post a screencap of your post/pm to K-Scope and are YOU really going to ask me to believe that K-Scope returned from "Fanastasia" after WEEKS and WEEKS of being absent and posted with out sending you a single word to ask you or at least have enough faith in his partner to send a pm and say "hey whats new in this game who do you think is scum?" So your last comment indicates you contacted him? But he posted without even sending you a pm?J-Scope wrote:I PM’ed him the other day and asked if he was going to start playing but I haven’t heard back from him yet.
Agreed and disagreed.... Of course ONE should look for edits, that's how me and RR (among others) nailed Nuwen/yos last game. Are you telling me you read thier IM chats from this game and found an edit problem? If not... after all they wrote why should we not think they be town? Why question them?nyballosulgniirkps wrote:You don't use the absence of scummy inter-hydra communication as a reason for writing someone off as town, because it can be faked, but instead look for glitches where editing may have occurred. It's not having it both ways. It's using common sense. It's obvious chats can be faked, and one would have to be pretty dense to post any incriminating conversations without editing them, unless they are unable to. What J-Scope said doesn't really change that.
J-Scope wrote:@RW: I did get a response from him and it's a good enough excuse for me to believe it.
Why do you want a screencap of this? Why not just a bit o' text? I'll screencap, of course, but I'd much rather lynch you.
Mod: Can we get a vote count?
I don't like the modkill idea. This game shouldn't be too hard to catch up in if we can find good replacements.
Frog Dodge and Pokey Alpaca should add to the list of lynch candidates just to make it semi-official, and we should wrap up this lynch before the clock strikes 12.
Good, I hope you are right although why write a statement saying "THIS IS FACT" and end your run on sentence with "PLEASE TEL ME IF I AM WRONG" As long as Town controls the kill who cares, dont write something as fact if you are not sure please.Ojando wrote:Town would always control the kill in this instance. If someone was at 3 prods and hadn’t posted for 72 hours the mod will only prod them a 4th time if requested to do so in the thread (rule 10). It would act basically as a hammer at that point. Please correct me if I’m wrong on this theory.
MOST, Excellent comment, why did Jscope not send his partner a run down of post as it is what YOU stated you would do? Tis exaclty what I did to RR when he returned from VLA as I am sure several others did with their partners as well. Brother you wrote the entire point I was trying to make in a much more articulate manner! Thanks... lolOjando wrote:No, I wouldn’t, that’s stupid. One advantage you have when coming back from a break is seeing the game in a bigger picture. I find that I tend to notice things not making sense from many pages back because I’m reading the whole thread or a large part in a short period of time, and I’m not looking for anything specific, so my mind is open to anything.
Asking my partners opinion is just destroying any advantage that being VLA and rereading brings.I’d send my partner a run-down post of everyone in the game and ask my partner to comment on it.The advantage of having a partner is that we can bounce ideas off each other, it’s not to get their ideas so I can basically copy them.
When coming back from VLA (in a non-hydra game) you don't just look at the votecount and vote for the person with the highest vote count. You have your own opinions etc, you reread and post your opinions. It's no different here.
what I thought everyone did not want Wall'O'Text...Ojando wrote:Elaborate please, I’ve reread the last 3-4 pages and can’t find any accusation from you or anyone else regarding this association between J-Scope and sexed.
... that is the answer to your other question. Again, you nailed what Townies think and how they interact with their partner on the head in my opinion....shaft.ed wrote:J-ScopeThanks for sharing the tidbit about falsifying logs. This is townie points for J-Scope. Although if scum, he might just not feel like being bothered to create fake logs
ZaphI obviously agree with your point against Yos, but what about the rest of the game. More input please.
OjandoOjando is feeling off to me. I can't put a finger on it, need more content.
Gah a secret shame...no boo hoo.... *wipes lil Jahudo's eyes* Answer the FUCKING question kid! Actually, please allow me to rephrase teh qusetion since you did not understand or tried to manipulate the context..not content!J-Scope wrote:]It’s my secret shame that K-Scope and I are having marital problems. I wanted to go to counseling with him because he just won’t communicate with me! Then last week I saw him hanging around another forum. I think he’s cheating on me.
Gosh darn not even close to yours...isnt that more reason whether scum or town to communicate with one's hydra? Aint town and scum equally lazy and shouldnt town and scum equally ask for information... Nothing else is worth a reply....J-Scope wrote:]Actually I have no idea why K-Scope did or didn’t do something. I have never played a game with him before to my knowledge. How well is your experience with K-Scope?
Added to list....but I really have no idea who is scum! If anybody else has figured out the mechanic of this game please enlighten us all.PoketheAlpaca wrote:PokerFace is on V/LA. Im updating this so you can see where we currently are. I so hate wallotexts and this game is dangerously crossing the annoying line (sorry Adel, I bet you didnt predict this would happen). Ill give it a try tonight.
Even more, we (PF and me) were having some kind of discussion about our suspicions but I think its pretty clear to us that Orto is our top suspect. When PF returns we will likely update this list.
Whom I'm willing to lynch now (update it as you post):
1. Zaphod Beeblebrox (2) Ojando, J-Scope, Raging Wishbone
3. Zmd (4) Ojando, Ortohoops, nybaloosulgniirkps, J-Scope
4. Trotsky(4): nyballosulgniirkps, ZMD, Zaphod Beeblebrox, Ortohoops, Raging Wishbone
5. Ojando (1): ZMD
7. Yosariwen (1): nybaloosulgniirkps(?)
8. Ortohoops (1): ZMD, PoketheAlpaca
10. PoketheAlpaca (0):
11. nyballosulgniirkps (0):
12. Raging Wishbone (4): Zaphod Beeblebrox, Ojando, nyballosulgniirkps, J-Scope
13. J-Scope (0): RagingWishbone
14. Frog Dodging (0):
Ill read Trotsky, Zmd and RR cases more detailely later.
Huh....Ortohoops wrote:@ RW as far as I can see your vote on J-Scope is weak. Please change to Trotsky
See, I KNEW it all along...Bourne aka Matt although sanctioned by the Government is a Serial Killer! lolOrtohoops wrote:Uh...that's Matt Damon
Figured out the mechanic of the game to make it move just a tad quicker...at this pace we don't finish this game until 2010, lolOrtohoops wrote:Figured out the mechanic? What?
You just cracked this game Ojanda...I was born scum or accorded scum for this game...one of the two... I will let you figure out which...Ojando wrote:My partner has been VLA and I’ve wanted to give her as much chance to chat to me prior to posting, especially given the lack of new content from anyone other than RW.
No, if you wish to make a fresh accusation like that, you need to state pretty clearly why. Not doing this strikes me as scummy, as when questioned you still don’t provide it, merely point me towards some vague posts, none of which answer my question. If I'm being an idiot and missing something, then quote what I've missed rather than just saying 'hey go back and read'.Raging Wishbone wrote:Please reread my last five or six comments and the subsequent replies which I wrote above.. if you dont want to lynch him, then please nevermind and lynch who ever you want. Just tell me you are certain who the scum or sk is and I may follow you but at this point I see no better lynch.
As stated, I would send it to my partner, but I could understand people just posting it in the thread. My main point was that I would not seek my partners advice prior to rereading. As to why you’re attacking someone for posting in the thread when you’re seemingly hellbent on getting people prodded, this makes no sense, you’re playing on both sides of the fence. It takes time to coordinate conversation within a hydra, especially if you're in my boat and in vastly different timezones.Raging Wishbone wrote: MOST, Excellent comment, why did Jscope not send his partner a run down of post as it is what YOU stated you would do?
If you wish to make a linkage case against someone, state it clearly, otherwise you’re just throwing the accusation out there with nothing to back it up. I stated very clearly that I'd reread, and I have, more than once, I still can't see a direct accusation of this, or even an indirect one. If it's there, please quote it or give me a post number. Obviously given your vehemence you must know where you or someone else has said it, shouldn't be hard for you to tell me where.Raging Wishbone wrote: @Ojanda...sorry genius in the future I will not expect you to read and repost every important screencap of the game! Err, then again please dont ak me to POST something YOU already have or SHOULD have read!
Our vote is on Zaphod and I think we’ve made clear why. As to the SK, I’m not entirely sure what I’m looking for to differentiate between scum and SK, but my best guess is you, RW, if there is one (do we know if there is?). Someone pointed out earlier that constant posting of private chats runs a large risk of outing power-roles. To me, there’s no greater risk for scum in this, they don’t really care if they’re outed as scum or as scum power-roles, either way they’re outed. Scum would obviously be faking these logs anyway, and are unlikely to out themselves as power-roles in faked logs. For town, this would be pretty bad. So while I think it could help scum role-hunt, I also think that an SK possibly has the most to gain from this, get rid of power-roles with ease.Raging Wishbone wrote: Just tell me you are certain who the scum or sk is and I may follow you but at this point I see no better lynch.
I have the same gut reaction to your mass-claim request, but I haven’t had a chance to think about or talk to my partner about the implications at this stage. While I'm not against it, and I think it'd help town, I think it would also be a good play by an SK to get a good idea of the power-roles out there.
Would love a vote-count.
meh, you did comment on your aligment here....Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:FTR, I believe I complained about certain players thinking I'm "scum in every game."Trotsky wrote:i missed this little nugget the first time around i guess
lynch all lurkers mafiaraging wishbone wrote:I CANT vote ZAPHOD (Although my oarner wanted too)...maybe you can but I wont because she WROTE in this BETA game the "reason she was leaving mafiascum forever was because of being accussed of being scum when she was TOWN?"... I mean don't that mean nothing to you?
amnesia mafia
these are just some of the games i assume dgb was actually referring to as her "reason to leave mafiascum forever." dgb being the classy and sportsmanlike lady she is would not refer to ongoing games in a rant about leaving the site.I don't recall commenting on my actual alignment in any of these games.
In any event - my read was correct. Unfortunately, it'll be difficult to search for linkages with a SK.
I'm pretty sure there's a lot of scum on Trotsky's wagon, because beyond gut reads, there wasn't much of a case, roflcopter's habit of lurking as scum gave him away.
Trotsky wagon: ZMD, Ortohoops, Frog Dodge, nyballs, RW, Pokethe Alpaca
I'm very sad not to be on that list, but paradoxically I'd be delighted to vote any player that is on it. How 'bout that.
Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:Aw, there we go again, I'm scum in every game. You're half the reason why I'm not going to play anymore after I finish my current commitments.roflcopter wrote:hey zaphod why are you ignoring post 41 even after a second request for you to acknowledge it?
i say we pick someone for a+b to kill and then lynch him. my choice for that kill is zaphod.
A&B said he already submitted his kill.
I'm happy to be lynched in any game I have the misfortune of having signed up for with you in it.
Don't forget to post under your hydra name next time.
Tis implied by the context of your statement.... Meh...Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:Where the heck do I say that I wasRaging Wishbone wrote:meh, you did comment on your aligment here....
Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:Aw, there we go again, I'm scum in every game. You're half the reason why I'm not going to play anymore after I finish my current commitments.roflcopter wrote:hey zaphod why are you ignoring post 41 even after a second request for you to acknowledge it?
i say we pick someone for a+b to kill and then lynch him. my choice for that kill is zaphod.
A&B said he already submitted his kill.
I'm happy to be lynched in any game I have the misfortune of having signed up for with you in it.
Don't forget to post under your hydra name next time.ACTUALLYscum or town? I said he accused me of being scum from the get go in every game. Thank for for providing the proof that I did not comment on my alignment.
@ Yosarian:
Zmd is barely under attack. He may be the first wagon of the day. But already he's throwing in the towel, refusing to claim, accepting his lynch, but soft-claiming a power role in the hope that he'll be spared without risk of being counterclaimed, or being accountable. And we are warned we won't get more at L-1 with everyone salivating to hammer. That's scumtalk.
rofl, this was your breakthrough case a good ole fashion load of OMGUS... Geee, J-Scope let me humbly apoligize for anything I wrote that implied you were scum (without proof you are scum) or if I hurt your feelings, because you seem so sensitive these days... I also would like to take this opporutunity to thank you FUCKING up a gambit I was playing! meh although the gambit was on you and Orthohoop and YES genius it was based on Alpha...so you are saying I made... what a mistake by basing my opinions on Alpha... rofl, your case is epic fail.J-Scope wrote:Why I think RagingWishbone is scum
A report by J-Scope
3rd period scuminomics
This first part is rehash but I still think it is valid. Also note that they never commented on these thoughts when I posted them the first time:
I think RW misrepresented the initial Yosariwen vote on them by saying this:It looks to me like RW is trying to undermine Yosariwen’s initial vote on them by making it look like Yosariwen had acknowledged the chats as a justification for voting (which I don’t agree with) along with eventually releasing the chats as an offensive, instead of defensive, play, when it was clear that RW made them release the chats. RW’s conclusion that the situation was “completely scummy” here looks reactive and exaggerated.Raging Wishbone 196 wrote:The fact and addition of needing to prove themselves by claiming they have 4 AIM chats that will "knock are socks off" seems completely scummy.
I think RW is trying to compare the situation to alpha, where YosNuwen was scum, without evidence to explain why the alpha meta applies.It also seems very early and unprovoked to use emotional words like "FUCKING be crucified", so I feel this could be a deliberate exaggeration to heighten the importance of the case through emotion as a possible motive.Raging Wishbone wrote:I will not FUCKING be crucified in this game the same way I was in the Alpha game for making a good choice on lynching scum!
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Secondly, I feel that Raging Wishbone has treated his case on me in a similar manner. RW attacked me for my posting of quicktopic chats here:This quote paints me in a bad light and does not acknowledge my side of the story that explained why it looked fake. It is misrepresentation to say I posted the QT’s for a reason on my own accord, because the only one that wanted the QT’s was RW himself:Raging Wishbone wrote:I mean J-Scope did you post that quick topic to make fun of us all? You have 8 posts, you YOURSELF claim that is was original from Alpha, anyone reading the content can tell you faked it! I mean you "faked it so bad" it is hard to believe scum would make such a huge mistake twice?Raging Wishbone wrote:@Ortohoops and JScope still waiting for your screencaps so we can compare them to the Alpha game.This looks like an attempt to compare scum-alpha-Jscope with beta-Jscope without using any evidence, so I don’t trust the motive they had for bringing this up.Raging Wishbone wrote:Yeah, well qt aside, you are slipping under the radar once again like alpha.
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His next vote (post 267) raises some questions for me. This was the most tangible reason he gave:The first part does not fit with what they had previously said here to end our argument on daytalk:Raging Wishbone wrote:J-Scope is the best lynch due to his arugments on daytalk and his associations with sexed!And the second part, my supposed associations with shaft.ed, was not explained in that post. Most of 267 was about how K-Scope was a bad partner, but he doesn’t use it as a reason for voting, even though a skim read might suggest he thinks it’s a scumtell. That’s what it feels like to me:Raging Wishbone wrote:I am not completely convinced, however I buy enough of what you wrote to...
UNVOTE: J-ScopeAnd althought he did not explain why he thought I had associations with shaft.ed, I found what he probably meant and I see a double standard in his scumtell:Raging Wishbone wrote:The first thing he should have done is send you a pm to asky you to catch him up to speed...actually whether scum or Town.In both cases he told us a little thing he didn’t like, with your quote pyramids and my deceptive capabilities, but he also completed the read as more town than scum.shaft.ed wrote:RW For the love of God...see above. I'm getting a townish read off of RW for what it matters.
J-Scope Thanks for sharing the tidbit about falsifying logs. This is townie points for J-Scope. Although if scum, he might just not feel like being bothered to create fake logs Wink However, what do you like about Trotsky's Zaphod case? There's nothing there.
He also hadn’t commented on those points I made from an earlier post so there they are again.
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@RW: What scumtells do you still think are valid against me? Do you think anything looked scummy before but now you aren’t sure or don’t think is a scumtell?
Do you think shaft.ed’s post to me was any different than what he said to you?
Do you know why I talked to myself in my QuickTopic? Or is it just that you know I am capable of faking it so you think the new stuff could very well be fake too? If so, why ask for them?
Why did the argument about QuickTopics reappear as a reason for voting me in post 267 after you unvoted over that same argument in post 257?
I really don't see the problem with thinking Yoso was scum and then after having a discussion with them based on their IM chats changing my mind. It was based on Alpha, however I think they reacted quite differently this time around and I am leaning on them being town.J-Scope wrote:I think RW misrepresented the initial Yosariwen vote on them by saying this:
It looks to me like RW is trying to undermine Yosariwen’s initial vote on them by making it look like Yosariwen had acknowledged the chats as a justification for voting (which I don’t agree with) along with eventually releasing the chats as an offensive, instead of defensive, play, when it was clear that RW made them release the chats. RW’s conclusion that the situation was “completely scummy” here looks reactive and exaggerated.
I think RW is trying to compare the situation to alpha, where YosNuwen was scum, without evidence to explain why the alpha meta applies.
This is not emotional, I find very little within this game that could provoke a response such as you described. It is exaggerated to illustrate the importance of my reply.J-Scope wrote:It also seems very early and unprovoked to use emotional words like "FUCKING be crucified", so I feel this could be a deliberate exaggeration to heighten the importance of the case through emotion as a possible motive.
Once again, you answered this question yourself. It should paint you in a bad light as I do not believe your side of the story. I do not understand why K-Scope would post in teh thread without getting your take on the game in quick talk first.J-Scope wrote:Secondly, I feel that Raging Wishbone has treated his case on me in a similar manner. RW attacked me for my posting of quicktopic chats here:
This quote paints me in a bad light and does not acknowledge my side of the story that explained why it looked fake. It is misrepresentation to say I posted the QT’s for a reason on my own accord, because the only one that wanted the QT’s was RW himself:
I was comparing "Alpha" and "Beta" J-Scopes. This is a good meta and I think the comparisson of the two games is relevant.J-Scope wrote:This looks like an attempt to compare scum-alpha-Jscope with beta-Jscope without using any evidence, so I don’t trust the motive they had for bringing this up.
I think mostly you have become overly defensive. I unvoted because I had a shadow of a doubt, however you seem to want to labor the points against you, so I have no problem elaborating a bit more which is making me reconsider again. As far as other specific points your daytalk and the fact that K-Scope posted in thread but not in qt. Your assocition with Sex W/Shaft. Lastly a meta or rather comparing Beta and Alpha.J-Scope wrote:@RW What scumtells do you still think are valid against me? Do you think anything looked scummy before but now you aren’t sure or don’t think is a scumtell?
Yes I do, as I explained above.J-Scope wrote:Do you think shaft.ed’s post to me was any different than what he said to you?
A bit of both. My biggest concern with your daytalk is that K-Scope id not post before posting in thread. It just seems very unrealistic.J-Scope wrote:Do you know why I talked to myself in my QuickTopic? Or is it just that you know I am capable of faking it so you think the new stuff could very well be fake too? If so, why ask for them?
Because it is something, along with all of these other points I have a doubt on. I don't like lynching townies and would rather explore other options before voting for you again. I am not close to calling you town, in fact you are still in my top three suspects.J-Scope wrote:@Why did the argument about QuickTopics reappear as a reason for voting me in post 267 after you unvoted over that same argument in post 257?
I don't know why you need me to answer questions, when you keep figuring things out on your own? I explained my reasons for voting you and unvoting you as well that my unvote does not clear you in my opion.J-Scope wrote:What kind of gambit was it? How much of your play was a gambit?
So were you trying to find scumtells in my reactions? What does this say about the points you uncovered in the first place? I think they were not strong enough to stand on their own because some of it was just double standard and confirmation bias.
I have changed my mind, but that is not to say by the time I finish catching up I won't vote you again.J-Scope wrote:Where are the jokes and sarcasm? I thought you were always pretty serious about wanting to lynch me.
Your entire post is defending yourself on a case I dropped? Why? It just seems really useless and defensive when you were not in a bad position. It seems like omgus because just about every issue you have made against me stems from something I wrote about you.J-Scope wrote:I disagree about my case being OMGUS. I think the methods you used to scumhunt me were scummy and you still have not commented on large parts of them. So we don't have to end our conversation after all!
Actually I have mentioned ti a few times, starting around here....PoketheAlpaca wrote:Unless I'm mistaken, you haven't really touched on this issue until now. And the last post Zaphod made dipicts you as being possible scum. Show me where you have mentioned this before or explain how DGB is different by yourself or I smell omgus especially since you dropped that remark super fast.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 65#1722465
Regarding Zaphod, I just really found the exchange with Trotsy odd. Last we talked, myself and RR were split on Zaphod, he thinks she's scum, I think shes townie. However the other points people have made make me want to reread her to see if I am mistaken.Raging Wishbone wrote:Dude are you sure i'm not? j/k, lol... Why are you still alive by the way?Frog Dodging wrote:You guys can start digging our grave once we're dead, and not a minute before, OK?
Since our mortality is on the line here, I feel it prudent to share every last thought I have on this game before our untimely demise. Raging Wishbone is quite inefficient at what they're trying to do. Yosariwen is way more downkey than I would expect. Look at them after our death. Sex club is a tad bit quieter than I would like. PTA and ZMD need to die already, especially PTA. Incamnito is one of the people that the town needs to start striving to act like. For someone saying so much about activity and whatnot, Ortohoops is extremely quiet. Death and Trotsky need to start speaking up. I have also heard absolutely nothing from nyball
Yes please prod: zmd, poka, and hoops. Thanks.Saunt Adelaus wrote:Does this game need a kick in the ass? I'm more than happy to prod people, so long as you specifically request it in the thread.
Actually it was RR who posted suspicions of you and it'ts me who wants to confirm you town. I kinda just wanted to see how you responded... Can I ask you an ethics question, would you feel comfortable winning as scum after DGB's post?Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:For a lot of this game I seem to recall you saying you weren't comfortable with us on a gut level. Why the mind change?Raging Wishbone wrote:Zaphod = Town (free pass)
Caught the SK; excellent. Now I need to go back for more tells and analysis. Grrr
What can I tell ya... I was rushed, felt like he was answering my questions for me anyway and couldn't be bothered. This was probbly a mistake because I am being forced to claim now. I adressed his issues above, and the only good that might come out of my lynch or an NK will be the wagon that formed based on such a weak case.Yosariwen wrote:Ugh.Raging Wishbone wrote: rofl, this was your breakthrough case a good ole fashion load of OMGUS... Geee, J-Scope let me humbly apoligize for anything I wrote that implied you were scum (without proof you are scum) or if I hurt your feelings, because you seem so sensitive these days... I also would like to take this opporutunity to thank you FUCKING up a gambit I was playing! meh although the gambit was on you and Orthohoop and YES genius it was based on Alpha...so you are saying I made... what a mistake by basing my opinions on Alpha... rofl, your case is epic fail.
UNVOTE: ZMD
@Zmd - I will give you the benefit of the doubt based on your post.
J-scope posts a pretty good, detailed, and logical reason for his suspicion on Raging Wishbone. And RW's response?
1. Calls J-scope's entire attack "OMGUS" without responding to any points in it.
2. Randomally insults J-scope, with a "I don't know why you're so sensitive" post, which just seems odd considering J-scope's post was much more "logical analyis" then "angry ranting".
3. Claims that somehow J-scope just screwed up some "gambit" he was running. I've seen scum claim "No, it was all a gambit" sooo many times...
I know we're still in twilight, butVote:Raging Wishbone.He so looks like caught scum here.
It was a little lazy but it was more that I was rushed and RR is VLA for at least another week.Frog Dodging wrote:I am completely in agreement with Yosariwen about RW's last post. To dismiss a case against you as OMGUS is just lazy. J-scope's case is quite obviously rooted in more than the fact that RW is voting him, so it's not OMGUS. RW, I demand you respond to the points that J-scope made.
[quote="raging wishbone" Our role is a Doctor, we protected frogdodge round one and pokealpca round 2.Zmd wrote:Am I wrong in thinking that your claim contradicts your attack on FD?
Raging Wishbone wrote:Zmd wrote:Am I wrong in thinking that your claim contradicts your attack on FD?raging wishbone wrote: Our role is a Doctor, we protected frogdodge round one and pokealpca round 2.I planted some seeds such as asking why frogdoge was still alive/quote]
I never attacked him, I asked why he was still alive. I also have had doubts on his alignment as the game progressed. We sent our protection in before the game started. Just because I have protected frog and poke does not mean they are town.
Our protection was submitted before the game started. We picked some of the most well know names because we felt that is who scum would target with the nk. I will have to go back and read the exchange, but whether or not it was I or Rr who made that vote doesnt matter because a Doctors protection does not stop a lynch. In otherowrds, we have Poke protected right now, if he does soemthing scummy, I will have no problem voting for him.Zmd wrote:Um, yeah. RW, explain this.
If you knew you protected FD, why did you vote him here with this added on to it?Raging Wishbone wrote:VOTE: FrogDodge
Unless we can figure out if A&B was lying... I see no other reason he is not dead. I kinda would like to stick with Occams Razor.
I just really can't explain this any better than I have. I can't speak for RR and you are asking me about things that happened close to four months ago. I just don't see what you see...Zmd wrote:Fixed. I thought you <3 me, yet you can''t say that it was me who caught them with their voteZaphod Beeblebrox wrote:Should RW flip scum, then things look a lot brighter for Zmd. Though being on the hot seat assheis, Zmd pretty much has no choice but to bus. Oh wait. WIFOM. Never mind.
