Open 142: True Love (Game Over) before 784

[kirroha]

Sorry for taking so long, I'm in a completely different time zone from the rest of you all and have just finished school.

Vote: sonicchaos1993

for being the first on the list, and being 2 years older than me. Given that the numbers behind your name signify the year that you were born. XD

[kirroha]

Quite a lot has happened when I was sleeping and taking my exams. I'm going to read through; it's lunch break now.

[kirroha]

Actually, I think it might be better if we try to list out the most possible scum pairs (not lover pairs) and rank them, as well as the most possible scummy people and rank them as well. It might be more productive if we do it that way, since we know well that in a lover pair, it is not possible for both people to be scum at the same time, so if both of them act scummy, it might confuse us.

Like for example, I can rank the possible scum pairs in one column and the scummiest people in the other column. Since in a lover game, every lynch is very important, and it's quite bad to mislynch, since two mislynches lets scum win. (as long as the mislynches are not on the scum's lovers)

Will that work?

[kirroha]

Exaggeration thy name is kirroha.

Quite a lot as compared to what happened before in other games. This one progresses pretty quickly.

[kirroha]

I WOULD LIKE OTHER PEOPLE TO CHIME IN NOW

DING-A-LING-A-DING-A-LING-DONG!

/capsrapegalore

[kirroha]

I still think that I should look in terms of possible scum pairings instead of just scummy people, so I guess I'll post about what I think about each pairing now.

Platonic (changed by request) Pairings
kirroha/MiteyMouse
Debonair Danny DiPietro/ZazieR
Percy/Korts
sonicchaos1993/Kmd4390

Lol, since when did it change to platonic XD

Anyway, the point of me putting this post on is to show to the others that one of these pairings listed down here is the right one, which can win us the game. Also, instead of just looking at one player's scumminess, we can look at how these players' interactions can show their relationship as scum. I don't know about all of you - this is just how I like to play.

So I'll start from the front, and here are the possibilities:

Kirroha/DDD-Kirroha/Zazie-Kirroha/Percy-Kirroha/Korts-Kirroha/sonicchaos1993-Kirroha/Kmd4390-Mitey/DDD-Mitey/Zaz-Mitey/Percy-Mitey/Korts-Mitey/soni-Mitey/Kmd-DDD/Percy-DDD/Korts-DDD/soni-DDD/Kmd-Zaz/Percy-Zaz/Korts-Zaz/soni-Zaz/Kmd-Percy/soni-Percy/Kmd-Korts/soni-Korts/Kmd

See, now that you all look at it - there aren't that many for us to pick from, unlike what we might have assumed previously. I think this can greatly increase our productivity, since instead of trying to analyze somebody's scummy actions, we can actually analyze the interactions between two different people before determining if they are scum. Thus, we approach the problem in a different way - finding scum from scummy relationships instead of scummy behaviour. Since many townies can accidentally do something wrong and act scummy, he will be picked on pretty quickly without much to defend himself with. But as long as there doesn't seem to be a possible partner for him, the suspicions on him might lessen according to this method. Thus, we might be able to find even the cleverest scum this way.

[kirroha]

Um, actually... Has ZazieR posted even once yet? I can't find any posts of his.

[kirroha]

Mod: My vote is currently on Sonicchaos.

Corrected. Sorry about that

Okay, I'll try... doing my Maths... and typing this... at the same time... ze.

The point of listing out all the possible pairings has something to do with psychology. At first, it may seem that there are too many pairings for us to even think about analyzing pairings, but once I list them out you all might be able to see that it's a plausible idea and that there are not that many possible scum pairings after all.

Still, if you all believe that I need to address the people first instead of pairings, I'll do that for now, until we get any further information.

MiteyMouse

- I know I might be biased towards my sibling/lover/platonicfriend/whatever, but I guess this point might need to be addressed. Okay, since Mitey is my lover, I don't want her to get lynched, but I think it's kinda weird that she only random voted after Kmd said "Why no vote?" It seems to be some kind of "trying-to-fit-in" kind... Still, I don't really think she's scum, but it might be due to my biasness.

Korts

: Okay, first I find it pretty weird that he makes such a big fuss out of Kmd's "gimmick". Firstly, he's just voting for someone in the RVS - everyone is voting anyway, so why just sift Kmd out? After all, all the votes in the RVS aren't very useful, and I believe that Kmd was just having fun. Secondly, if Kmd really does that every game, and it is anti-town, I don't see how that fits unless Kmd turns out to be scum in every game he's ever played in where he had voted ZazieR. It seems to me now that there are a few possibilities:

1) Korts was also having fun.
2) Korts just desperately wanted to find some clue to cling on to. (Then again, why the desperation?)
3) Korts and Kmd are scumbuddies and did this early on in the game as distancing.

and looking at it town/scum-wise...

1) Korts and Kmd are both town. I believe that this might be the most likely. Since I don't really know much about Korts's personality, he might just be the type who tries to eye every single little thing. Still, I don't think we should point out every letter in the RVS stage, since that will just provide a perfect wagon for the scum to push to a lynch.
2) Korts is town, Kmd is scum. There is a possibility that this is true, but here I don't think Korts's 'argument' really fits in, since he said Kmd does it every game. Still, it's a possibility.
3) Korts is scum, Kmd is town. From past experiences, I think that scum would like to create a huge wagon on a townie early in the game by exaggerating their movements to scummier than they already are, and in such a setup where every lynch is extremely crucial, I think this is a possibility worth considering.
4) Korts and Kmd are both scum. This is also likely, but very risky. Korts is making himself look rather scummy by doing this, and Kmd might be attracting unwanted attention to himself. Still, if it ended up working, it would be the perfect distancing tactic.

Thus, though I find possibility 3) and 4) quite likely, 1) is still the most likely for me, so I won't vote or FoS him. Still, IGMEOY, Korts, Kmd.

I WOULD LIKE OTHER PEOPLE TO CHIME IN NOW

Over here, this quote can be inferred two ways:

1) He is exasperated at the inactivity, thus he wants others to come in and contribute. This is pro-town.
2) He wants others to come in and help him in his debate against Kmd over a small matter. This is rather anti-town, but not absolutely.

So Korts: What were you referring to when you said that?

Kmd

: Actually, most I've said about him is already in the Korts section. I can't really tell much about him from the first page, since if he's town, it's perfectly fine to argue against Korts's flawed logic. If he was scum, he would also argue against Korts's flawed logic, but with a hint of desperation at such an early suspicion. If both Kmd and Korts are scum... well, they would have probably planned the conversation beforehand and we won't be able to infer anything.

sonicchaos1993

: After reading through a few of his posts, he seems to be giving off a pro-town vibe, thus for now I will

Unvote soni

. I will explain why.

I don't see all that much right now. Kmd and Korts seem to be making a big deal about the schtick vote.

Personally, I think we should be looking out for people who are really trying to get a lynch. Since the mafia's only weapon is the lynch, then the mafia members will most likely be trying to lynch whenever they can. Also, the setup as said in the Queue said that there would be 3 town/town pairs and 2 town/scum pairs, so if somebody is found scum, then their lover cannot be sucm also.

He tries to break up the fight between Korts and Kmd. Here there are also a few possibilities:

1) He's breaking up the fight because he knows well that it makes absolutely no sense. Pro-town and most likely, and this is why I unvoted him.
2) He is Korts's scumbuddy, and is trying to defend him from being lynched. Also, he voted Korts later on as distancing. This possibility doesn't make much sense, as if he's trying to break up the fight and protect Korts, his post won't have a sort-of "Korts, are you scum?" kind of feel to it.
3) He is scum while Korts and Kmd are Town, and since he's Kmd's lover, he doesn't want Kmd to get lynched, as it would result in his own death, and he doesn't want that. I also think this possibility is not very possible in this situation, as Kmd does not seem to be suspicious to anyone, and it is more likely for Korts to be suspected for his flawed logic.

These are the only possibilities, and 2) and 3)'s possibilities are very slim, so that's why I find him quite pro-town.

Oh and also:

@hohum: kirroah voted me.

Okay, Kirroha is spelt wrongly, but anyways...

He tells the mod about a mistake on his vote. If he were scum, there is absolutely no benefit in doing something like this, knowing that it most probably won't be noticed and would just increase his vote count by 1. He could always pretend not to see my vote, and still pass off as town. But he pointed out the vote. Either he is scum with a ridiculously high level of sportsmanship or town.

2. I don't want to die day 1.

He's honest. I doubt scum would like to reveal the fact that they don't want to die.

Percy

: To me, Percy is giving the greatest town vibe of all players present. Those long posts that he had made all perfectly explains his own opinions and who he finds scummy. It seems to me the moment I read - "His conscience is clean. He is not afraid of looking scummy or other people picking on his posts, because he knows he isn't scum." It just gives me that kind of feeling. Every post he had made seems to have all his thoughts well poured into them, without hiding anything. He just seems to want to try his very best to help the town. You all might think that my text here seems very cheesy, but that's seriously the feeling that I get from reading Percy's posts. No scumfeel at all. If he really turns out to be scum, I'll be very shocked.


... Yikes, my parents are returning home in a few minutes. I'll just summarize it for now; I'll post another one about the other players later.

So far I've spoken up about MiteyMouse, Korts, Kmd, sonicchaos, and Percy.

If I have to rank them according to scummy-> least scummy, it would be Korts, Kmd, Mitey, sonicchaos, Percy.

I haven't spoken about the DDD/ZazieR lover pairing yet, so I'll do it later.

[kirroha]

Um, Mod - Now I've unvoted soni. In the previous post.

[kirroha]

Okay, looks like my latest post has attracted quite a bit of suspicion.

This is so wishy washy. And panicky. The first sentence reeks especially since I explained how every town player should naturally be biased against their lover.

Now this doesn't sound quite right. You said I was wishy-washy? I think you're trying too hard to look town. I don't think anybody here wants to die, not even scum. But you are there, saying nobly that you would be biased against your lover, which doesn't sound particularly right to me. It's alright to not be biased against or towards your lover, and that is the most townieish to me - being neutral to everyone as a suspect, but I think you are leaning far too much to one side. I really think you're trying to look town since you are depicting your own actions as town. Town players shouldn't keep explaining their actions as town - doing so just sounds frightened of being suspected. You should explain when somebody thinks that your pro-town actions are scummy, yes - but just explaining when nobody thinks it's suspicious in the first place is anti-town to me.

To be fair, I was only trying to start a wagon on Mitey, but voting kirroha after this is a much better option.

Everyone, look - Mitey is my lover. So in this case, switching votes doesn't actually mean a thing. But did you realise that he was just stuck voting between two pairings only? (Mitey/Kirro and Kmd/soni) The only pairing which he hasn't touched is the DDD/ZazieR pairing. In my opinion, if Korts is scum, his scumpartner is most likely in the DDD/Zazie pairing, because I believe that scum would not want to attract suspicion to their own scummates or their scummate's lover.

wishy washy buddy uppy

"Buddy uppy"? Just in case you didn't notice, Korts - you are the highest up on my scumlist so far. Kmd comes in second, although I'm having second thoughts about his scumminess since I find either DDD or Zazie a more possible scumbuddy of yours.

Now you see - I think you're nitpicking way too much. Nitpicking scummy things are okay, but the problem is, you're taking words that obviously have nothing to do with buddying up to you and trying to convince the others that I'm trying to buddy up. That doesn't sound very right to me.

If you are town, Korts - I really don't like the way you try to drive sportscars from so early on in the RVS stage. So far you've zoomed in at Kmd, Mitey and me. I think it would be better if you are town to watch other players' movements properly instead of just being paranoid at every letter, because there is a high chance that you are wrong. And building a wagon would just make it easy for the scum.

I was referring to the fact that Kmd and I were arguing on a nearly irrelevant point between ourselves and everyone else was sitting it out without a single comment.

Which, I presume - means that you are exasperated at the inactivity?

Gives waaay too much credit to sonic.

Can we lynch the scum soonish?

I find sonic protown. If you think differently, then you think differently. I'm not sure if you're trying to build suspicion on sonic as well - that would make suspicion on Kmd, Mitey, me AND sonic, which is exactly 2 pairings. Which also bolds the fact that DDD/Zazie is the only pairing which you haven't yet touched.

And what makes you so sure that I'm scum? It's still quite early in the game, and there's no way you can be so sure. Doing so just makes it easy for the scum to hop up.

Kirroha's post is really fence sitting. By claiming each option, she can easily explain why she changed her mind if she changes her mind. I see this more an action for scum to do.
Also, there's some WIFOM invloved. Especially in the part of Soccer.

I don't find how it seems fence-sitting, but I have to say I play differently than Korts. It's still early in the game, only page 3, so I prefer looking at everyone as an equal and say what I think about them first rather than just zoom in on one like what Korts is doing. I can't be too sure anyone is scum. Here, two mislynches can cost us the game, so I think if I play like Korts it would make it too easy for the scum.

And Soccer? O_o

ORLY? Then who does he see as scummy? Because so far, he's asked questions about nit picky things (Hypocrite?) has given his opinion of the Kmd - Korts discussion and has defended himself against the accusations from Kevin and Korts. I don't see anything where he tells us who he thinks is scummy. So please tell.

First, I find your "meta vote" on Percy quite interesting, so I would like to see some posts from the other games which caused you to think that he's scum.

Anyway, his posts are definitely the longest and most detailed ones. And as you know, long and detailed posts are very easy to nitpick on, but Percy just doesn't seem afraid of looking scummy to me. He seems to be trying hard to find scum, and I believe from the tone of his posts he is setting his eyes on Kmd, and maybe a little on Korts. He gives off pro-town vibes to me.

But still - if you really can find meta info that makes him seem scummy, I would like to see them.

Oh and

Vote: Korts

. So you can see my stand for now. I'm not going to keep zooming at him like how Korts does with the others, but he definitely is highest up on my suspicion list.

[kirroha]

Earlier posts had little to no content, posts with content have content that appears to my eye to basically be generally incorrect.

wishy washy wagon jumpy

Anyway, why did you only vote for me after I listed you out as a possible scumbuddy of Korts'? That's filled with OMGUS, too.

And about 'generally incorrect'... if you really want to say about how they're 'incorrect', can you list out HOW they're incorrect? Or you're just trying to convince the all the townies to vote for me?

Umm what? I have an opinion on what play would be pro-town, and act accordingly; you are really saying that that is scummy? You are trying way too hard to twist this in your favor.

I'm trying too hard to twist this into my favor? No.

Everyone, do you realise something? Korts has suspected a few people before. One of them was

Percy

, his lover. However, one thing you have to notice: He voted for my lover, Mitey, just because of one post of hers (and he didn't provide much proof; just jumped on her wagon). Yet, he has never shown the slightest inkling of ever wanting to vote for Percy.

And you say that you are naturally biased

against

your lover? I think it's just something you said to make people falsely assume that you are town.

Seriously, we have had four pages of discussion--why the fuck should I have voted at least one player from each pair by this time?

That would be valid if you haven't shown signs of suspicion around DDD/ZazieR. You've never shown the slightest bit of suspecting them. Yet you've suspected everyone else: Kmd, Mitey, Sonic, Percy and me, all without much valid proof. But DDD and Zazie? You didn't say anything about them at all. Not wanting to make interactions between you and them obvious, eh?

Of which the only really serious case/vote is the one currently on you. (Also, note that my vote on Mitey was only ever for one single post, without even a hint of a case. How is that "zooming in"?)

Oh, weren't you the one who spent like 2 pages of the discussion arguing with Kmd just because he voted for

ZazieR

? Weren't you the one who hopped on Mitey's wagon without your own opinion? Korts, your posts are filled with OMGUS. Just because you were top on my suspicion list, you retaliated so fiercely. Before that, you didn't show any sign of wanting to suspect me. Why is that so?

SCUM-PANIC ALERT

MAN YOUR STATIONS

THIS IS NOT A DRILL

Ha very ha.

Very funny, Korts.

diescumdie.

Confirm Vote: Korts

*cough*I want everyone to chime in now*cough*

[kirroha]

I never said anything about reasons for voting Mitey; what makes you think I voted Mitey for that post?

If you haven't stated any reasons, then isn't that just hopping on a wagon? I thought hopping on a wagon without reason was a scumtell?

And no, I didn't vote Percy, because my vote served a better purpose elsewhere.

At that time, I haven't spoken yet against you. So I see no reason why you couldn't vote for him, unless by "better purpose" you meant Mitey.

Of for fuckssake. THEY HAVEN'T GIVEN ANY REASON FOR ME TO. You have. Percy has. And I never suspected Kmd, Mitey or Sonic. This is very blatant misrep.

Then what's with the 2 page long argument about Kmd's vote on ZazieR? What about voting for Mitey? What about saying I'm giving too much credit to Sonic? Correct me if I'm wrong, but to me it sounds as if you're hinting he's a possible scumbuddy for me, which is counted as suspecting him.

And still, you admit to suspecting Percy, but you didn't vote for him because he was your lover, right?

Hardy har har. I have a good case on you, while you basically voted me for my attitude. Who's "OMGUS"-ing exactly?

Look. All I did was to put down what I thought about the players. And then you voted for me because you were top on my suspicions list. You didn't show the slightest bit of wanting to vote for me before I suspected you. How is that so?

Blatant misrepresentation of my actions and opinions on multiple cases

If I misinterpreted your actions, then please explain! Don't just stand there and say that my case is crap without telling me exactly how it's crap! Tell me why it is so I can understand why you're behaving like that.

Trust in lover partner

You got it completely wrong. At the beginning of the game, when I was PMing Mitey, I felt really weird not trusting in my lover partner, since I've played in quite a few lover games where you have exactly the same role as your lover, so you can trust them completely. But now, since there's a 50% chance of Mitey being scum, I was rather worried. So I really didn't know whether to trust her or not. But I really want to be able to work together, since she's the only one I can talk privately to. Still, I get nagging suspicions, so it gets me a bit confused.

Too much credit for sonic

I believe he's town, and I believe Percy is town too. Surprisingly, you never said 'too much credit for Percy'.

initial wishy-washy stance on Kmd vs. Korts

I was just listing down the possibilities. At first, I believed that you were town, but now you really are proving me otherwise. If I really am misinterpreting your actions completely, I'm sorry, and please correct me. I'm not very good at this, and maybe you can help me a little as to how to properly interpret others' actions.

You're points against MM all are following the same thing:
*That, but this....
This gives you the possibility to easily change your opinion when players don't agree.

Yet, I listed down which possibility I found the most possible. I didn't just put the possibilities there and run away. I stated my stand.

Next was Korts. For each thing you could have given your opinion off, you name each interpretation that could be possible. You even call each possible connection between the allignments of Kevin and Korts a possibility. Once again, this gives you the option to alter your opinion to what other players say.

Yup, I named each one, and I stated which possibility was the most possible. Even now, I'm not yet completely convinced that Korts is scum. I don't know how he plays in other games. I'm only voting for him because he seems the most suspicious to me at the current moment. But Korts took offense to it too easily. So I find that pretty weird.

And last where you were fence sitting was Kevin:
If he's town, he would do this.
If he's scum, he would do this as well.
If both are scum, we won't know.

So you took no chance regarding Kevin's allignment.

I shall assume that by 'Kevin' you meant Kmd.

That's why I stated in that post that I'm not very sure yet, so I'll need more information because I can't find any way to interpret his actions at that time.

What happened to Korts also happened to Soccer, but here you took more of a stance. But even then, you took every possibility.

Okay, I really don't understand who you mean by Soccer.

I named three games: Open 98, Mafia 87 (both as town) and mini 751 (scum)
Mafia 87 shows the meta argument the most for the town side, and you can compare it with mini 751.
It's a lot to post, and you can see his posts in context if you check it yourself.

Okay, I'll go check them later.

So wait, Korts is leaning too far to one side, which you don't like. But you also don't like it that Korts hasn't voted Percy. Wouldn't he be leaning too far to one side, if he voted Percy? To me, the answer is 'yes'. So I don't know what to think of these two quotes.

No - By that I meant that Korts

stated

that he would be biased against his lover partner, but his actions completely contradicted what he had said, so I think that he had only said that to seem town.

Two questions:
-How come you think that if Korts is scum, his partner is either me or DDD, while you know that scum can buss?

I know that scum can buss, but scum would try not to do so, especially when their partner is not yet under suspicion.

Unless he is already bussing his own scum partner and is ignoring you and DDD just to draw suspicion on himself and one of you.

Didn't you do this as well when confirming your vote against Korts?

But he was the one who did it first! D: And he purposely said that I'm scum even though there's not much proof, so I didn't see why I can't do that to him either. [/childishmindset]

But anyway, I've got good news
DDD has told me he's not scum. Which means we only have to check the three other pairs to win. This should be easy

But I thought you can't just trust your partner that easily? Mitey has also told me she isn't scum, but I still get slightly suspicious even though I'm trying very hard to trust her. I believe that we need to trust our partners in order to be able to catch the scum, since they are the only people we can privately talk with, but no matter how hard I try I'm still getting suspicious signals from Mitey. Why don't you have that problem?

Wishy washy? Not at all.

Wagon jumpy? I think I made it obvious that's exactly what I was doing.

And I thought wagon jumping was a scumtell?

Well I was purposefully being vague and bandwagoning to see what reactions it would garner, unfortunately no one reacted to it at all.

Oh... does that mean your vote on me was just put to see if the scum will come and wagon me as well?

And your last sentence almost seems like you're disassociating yourself from the town. Instead of "the rest" or "the other" townies, it's "all the" townies which seems to imply that you're not one of us. Not that I put much stock in such slips, but it's just another point against you.

That I can explain. In

Newbie 754

, my first game - I was a Townie, and in one post I said "the other townies". However, they misinterpreted that to be that I knew the people I suspected were also townies, so they put that as a point against me, exaggerated it and got me lynched. I didn't want that to happen again, so I guess I'll admit it - it's because of that that I didn't use "the other" townies again. I don't want to be mislynched again because of a simple mistake.

[kirroha]

Mod: Picking up the prod. Will not be that active due to exam periods coming in, but will try to stay on as much as possible.

I'm going to read through a bit now, don't worry if my posts sound hurried because I don't have a lot of time now.

[kirroha]

Welcome Amished, I'll clarify some of your posts here as well. (:

You answered this yourself with your question to Korts. "I thought hopping on a wago, without a reason, was a scumtell." Since I had a reason; not a scumtell by your own assumed logic. Even when done without a reason, it also depends on who does it because it's part of some people's meta whether town or scum.

So by that you mean if a person likes jumping on wagons in every game regardless of alignment, it is not a valid reason? Does that mean that we have to properly review the games that the people have played in before stating something?

JOKE: You totally missed it

-_-

This says to me that you start off with the assumption that sonic is pro-town. If he's scum with Korts, then of course he's going to kind of attack Korts while breaking up the fight. If he's scum on his own, then he'd want to break up the fight, and maybe he jumped in too early, or a thousand other things. You're too quick to dismiss the scum possibilities, and too quick in concluding that he's protown.

Nope. I listed out those possibilities because I'm the type of person who will list out every single possibility and rank them according to likelihood. Since the possibility of Sonic being protown is the highest, I go according to the assumption that he is protown.

why does she want to make it look like I'm better than I've been playing?

I did not say that you are playing a stellar game, by the way. I am just saying that your actions seem protown enough to me. But you assumed it to be that I think you're playing very well. There's a difference - like for example, tunnel-vision is pro-town in my books, but it's not necessarily good play.

kirroha, make sure you say who you're quoting when you quote. It makes it much easier to read.

I wrote their names at first, and the subsequent quotes all are written by the same person(s).

Incoming opinion: I think that kirroha's initial post was quite scummy. However, I'm happy with her answers and clarifications right now.

What was in my initial post that was scummy, and what 'answers and clarifications' did I provide that eased my scumminess?

I have done a quick read and have to agree with my plutonic partner (hehehe). I'm having a hard time trusting her but, feel the need to be able to talk pretty openly with her.

You mean that you agree with me the fact that it's hard to trust your platonic partner, or you agree with me about something else?

This is a good thing, replace an unknown with a player that I've good a real good read on.

Um, how did you manage to get a good read on someone who just said, "Hi there, starting my read now "?

To answer your question though, kirroha hasn't helped herself at all, really. Amongst other things she "confirms" her vote on Korts and then in her next post she voices her uncertainty of her own position. It looks to my eye as if she's trying to rally support to her position by projecting strength while simultaneously distancing herself from the mislynch.

I confirmed my vote because Korts just insisted that I was scum, so I just joked by insisting that he was scum too. Korts was the most suspicious to me that time and that was why I voted for him in the first place.

First off, I want to mention that I'm glad Kirroha stopped doing the like four options for every action as that would get you WIFOM'd to hell if you were town (I view that type of posting to be easily manipulated), and give you easy outs if you were scum.

The reason why I wrote 4 options and stuff is not to keep neutral. I wrote 4 options because, as I said to Percy just now, I am the type who thinks better by writing down all the possibilities of something, and ranking them up according to their probability and likelihood. That way, it's easier for me to look back and see all my thoughts.

Next: I'm trying to figure out why Percy is at L-2. Oh, meta and then accused IIOA; coupled with a non-removed RVS vote.

Ok, sorry for bothering you with a question, but what's IIOA?

WRT: Kirroha: I've seen a couple newbie scum tells from her. Most notably is what KMD picked up on concerning not voting for Korts right away, then after KMD brings it up in 70 has found reason enough to vote and confirm vote in 75 and 80 respectively so as to get rid of appearances of not wanting to vote him. Note that I think she would do this regardless of Korts' role, not wanting to vote for a townie, or not wanting to vote for a scumpartner.

One of the reasons why I did that was because Korts didn't seem suspicious to me the first time I posted, since he didn't actually post much. But after I posted and ranked him as most suspicious, he immediately retaliated and speaks as if I'm confirmed scum. I don't know if he's doing that as a joke or not, but it's not very appealing to me since it seems quite OMGUS. That's why I voted for him.

Also, with her stance on my previous player, 2 out of the 3 have sonic as scum, and the reasons for dismissing them are weaker, while the first is overexaggerated for those people who don't know my alignment. To assume so much over a simple statement and classify as really pro-town kinda pings my scumdar as well.

I'm not saying that sonic plays well. It's just that being honest, pointing out mistakes that do not benefit him and trying to break up a fight that he could do well without it breaking in the first place are towntells. I think that scum would not want to come out of hiding so easily over such a simple matter. And I didn't completely clear him. Everyone here is a suspect.

Nitpicking every post, especially of the person attacking you really gets on my nerves as well. Can't say whether or not this is a scumtell yet, but it's anti-town IMO as it tests the patience of the town by giving them something generally worthless to read. I feel that leads to people skimming over your posts which is a good way for scum to hide any slips.

Korts was the one who nitpicked my post at first. -_- And I think townies are supposed to look through posts very carefully and not skim through, because that's the only way to find scum. Especially when I seem suspicious to them, it makes all the more likely for them to look through my posts properly to find any slips. Only scum find no need to look through posts since they know who the scum are anyway and all they need to do is to conceal themselves.

But it's another possiblty that it's a setup to remove the vote later if she thinks that there's too much pressure on a scumbuddy. It's just odd behavior for a player project such confidence in their action, then immediately trying to remove their culpability from the situation.

As I had said, I wasn't that sure about Korts' scumminess. It's just that he insisted that I was scum, so I insisted that he was scum too. Confirm votes don't do anything in particular, right?

Will post later, but the fact that no-one in particular is all over kirroha for post 87 tells me I may be tunneling too much.

Eh... back in Newbie 754 our IC said that tunneling is a towntell since scum don't like to reveal themselves that much. -_- Well, since that is so, I better review everything properly later on.

Playing by the book is not a very successful scumhunting technique. If you can't find more scum motivation for it than town motivation, then it's not a scumtell. And early game, there is no harm in mindless wagoning, au contraire!

Fine, fine... *looks up dictionary to find the meaning of "au contraire" I was sure I've seen it before, just forgot its meaning.*

And that is what I meant. Like I said, wagoning is much more constructive in the early game than holding onto a single vote on a single player for a single post's mistake.

Really? In the early game I'll rather vote for the person I find most suspicious than wagoning (after all we are trying to lynch the scummiest person). I guess we think differently then?

you are thick

...

Either he is your scumpartner, or you were doing the aforementioned buddying up routine--I don't care right now, you're scum in either scenario.

I do find sonic townish. Even his 'successor' Amished seems to be trying hard to help the town, so I don't see any reason for heavily suspecting any of them. I find them pro-town, so why can't I say they are pro-town? Is it wrong?

You are misrepresenting my stance here again. If you had bothered to read my initial post against you you could've seen that it was not mainly your take on me that bothered me, it was the wishy washy stance on Mitey, the absolute pro-town view of sonic, the take on Kmd.

I never absolutely thought that sonic was town. I can't absolutely think that anyone is town. Everyone is a suspect here. I just find him pro-town because of the reasons I provided somewhere above for Percy.

Don't act like I haven't. In every post where I mention misrepresentation I show you how you did it and what it was you misrepresented. Read my posts again.

But to me, it really felt as if you had suspected those people. So I don't really think it's misintepretation. Otherwise, why would you vote Mitey (you cleared that up though in the previous post) and get into an argument with Kmd over small matters?

Because while you said that Percy is leaning town, you outright stated that you don't believe sonic could be scum based on something that is utterly inconsequential and a nulltell on any scale.

Just in case you didn't notice, I posted a list of who I find most suspicious -> least suspicious, and Percy was at the bottom of the list, followed by sonic. I found Percy the least suspicious, and not sonic.

Why plead incompetence now?

Look, I'm trying to understand where I've gone wrong intepreting other people's actions. So if I really misintepreted everything, I want someone to teach me about how to analyze others' posts. If I had really misintepreted you, and you're town, I don't want to continue doing so. You can understand that, right?

First her reaction to her partner is suspicious. Scum doesn’t want their partner lynched; townies should have no problem with it if their partner is scum. Furthermore, kirroha drops minor suspicion on her partner (to give the appearance of actually considering her partner as scum), but then immediately writes it off due to potential bias. So she’s not ignored her partner, done her due diligence in evaluating them as scum, and then dismissed them. It’s a terribly convenient way for scum to look good and avoid putting their partner in the limelight where they might cost them the game.

As I have said, I don't trust Mitey much even though I'm trying to, since it's hard to find scum if you can't even trust in your own partner, but like I said, I'm trying to. If we don't trust even a bit in our partners, it would be hard to find scum since our partners are the only people we can ever talk to quietly, and we must cherish that. However, if Mitey has really done something suspicious to make me suspect her, I would have no-questioned voted for her. But Mitey hasn't posted much, and hasn't done anything suspicious for me to want to vote for her.

Her tendency to lay out every option in the Korts case isn’t pretty either. What purpose does it serve? It can just as easily be done in your head, or on scratch paper, or in word privately and only her conclusions shared with us. It doesn’t help us to bog us down with arguments that are just going to be tossed out. So it’s mostly for show, a pro-town player doesn’t need to look like they’re going through the motions, scum does.

I have to write them down, or it would be confusing since everyone would wonder, "Why did she come to that conclusion?" There's no harm done in showing what I'm thinking, unless you all really think it's very troublesome to read. Then I'll stop posting those options. The only reason why I use options is so that I can write down all the possibilities and try to see how plausible each one is. It'll be easier that way.

Her evaluation of sonicchaos (SC) is bizarre and completely opposite of my read. Her pro-town read on him is entirely based on him “breaking up the fight between korts and kmd” which simply didn’t happen. I mean look at the post she quoted, SC posts a single line pointlessly summing up the korts/kmd situation, there’s no fight breaking up there he’s offering a passing thought before he posts pointless (and incorrect) setup garbage. And her argument that scum wouldn’t correct the mod on proper vote count is completely bogus as well as someone else also noted.

It's because I found no benefit for the scum to do such a thing. If sonic was scum, he would benefit more staying in the shadows and being careful about saying the right things than just be frank. He reads town to me.

Later on there’s the anti-town behavior that I noted with her confirm of her vote followed by her very next post which backpedals from that confidence to try and distance herself from the vote that she was just so sure of. All in all, there’s plenty of anti-town behavior from kirroha to justify placing and sustaining a vote.

Read above.

I'll post about what I think about the players again tomorrow. Hopefully, if not the day after tomorrow.

[kirroha]

Picking up the prod again, but I'm sorry if I can't post much. I'm stuck between school and beta-testing a game, so I won't have much time. I'll try to get a proper post up ASAP.

However, everyone - I don't think we should rush. I won't let you all lynch Percy without enough proof. After reading some of his posts I really feel that he's a townie. I don't think he's scum. We shouldn't waste a lynch, especially when they are so precious now. THAT'S WHY I WON'T LET YOU ALL LYNCH PERCY.

[kirroha]

@Kirroha: Does that mean you know that Percy and Korts are both Townies?

I don't know about Korts, but it's true that my suspicions have lessened a lot on him, and I've forgot to

Unvote

in the last post.

Percy is the towniest player to me thus far. I really don't know why you all are so eager to lynch him at the beginning. Lynches are very precious to us in this setup. We really can't waste it. That's why I won't let you all lynch him.

[kirroha]

Will be posting tomorrow or sometime else.