Open 142: True Love (Game Over) before 784

[ZazieR]

Vote Hohum

I have three lovers in this game Therefore I can't be town, I can't be scum, so I must be a third party role.
As this isn't stated as role, the mod is obvious lying. Therfore he's scum! Bandwagon time!

If not allowed,

Vote Kmd

Will read the other posts later as I just started posting again.

[ZazieR]

Schtick vote?

And my vote will only count if the mod doesn't count his vote...

Besides, depending on what I've missed, my vote might change soon.


EDIT

Vote hohum

I counted this as an unvote of KMD. If that was not your intention please let me know.

[ZazieR]

Korts is just jealous

But that means that battle of the lovers has already started, while I wasn't even here ! Did DDD already join the fun?

[ZazieR]

Ok, first the schtick vote argument. In both of our cases it's a null tell. I most of the time vote someone I know. As Kevin is stalking me, it's no wonder he gets a lot of random votes from me. Apparently, the same goes for Kevin.
As for it being anti-town, I disagree. To me, it's just a vote. Though I wonder, why would it have been constructive if he had for example random voted you (

Korts

)

P.S. Korts, you don't have to be jealous Rofl has a reason to be jealous though, as you apparently found a new lover Does he know?

[ZazieR]

EBWOP
Korts, why didn't you point this out with my vote?

[ZazieR]

Vote Percy

For meta reasons.

[ZazieR]

To clarify: his post 30 is a good case of only information and not taking a stance. This was not the case in the games I've seen him as town (open 98 and twice in mafia 87). This however was the case in mini 751 (Suzumiya Haruhi Mafia modded by Tar).

[ZazieR]

it produces no information for the town if you were to vote for Zazier whether you're scum with her, scum without her, or town. Thus Kmd's first vote was not used to produce information, it was simply so that Kmd could be seen to be voting.

So, if I as third party role would vote Korts, what would that give as information?
And if Kevin would vote DDD as scum, what would that give as information?

I don't see how a random vote gives information, so please explain.

Korts has described it as anti-town, when I would say it's just not pro-town. Korts has voted Kmd as a result of this exchange. I believe this situation can be (mostly) resolved when Kmd votes for someone else; or, he could stubbornly cling to his vote on Zazier, and if he decides to do so, I'd like to hear more detailed reasons as to why this will produce good info for the town.

So you think someone isn't producing info for the town, and therefore you vote someone random? Makes lots of sense...

[ZazieR]

Post 37

You mean, the idea that came from Open 133? (if I'm correct) The thing is, this would work in a normal lovers set-up as one scum lynch will mean a win for the town. However, in this case, scum can buss. So I don't think it will work.

[ZazieR]

Sorry Korts, but this is crap. I didn't take a strong view on any issue, because I don't have enough information to take a strong view (which includes my lack of serious voting). Instead, I asked questions and stated my opinion. The fact that I didn't charge out of the gate and agree with one of you 100% on page 2 doesn't even come close to a scumtell.

You may have given your opinion, but you were still on the fence. You said Kmd's vote was not pro-town. That to me, is repeating Korts words, but only nicer. You clearly did not agree with Kevin's vote, yet you're saying that if he changes his vote, all will be forgiven. That's clearly not taking a stance.

However, I will note that if someone is pushing hard for their lover's lynch, then it's a good indication of their towniness. There's WIFOM involved, but it's also very dangerous for the scum to engage in this kind of attack as a bluff.

You've been here once (open 98). And this time, you (and Korts as well) are giving 'advice' to the scum. This makes lots of sense...

That's all I have to say about this post, for now.

[ZazieR]

Kirroha's post is really fence sitting. By claiming each option, she can easily explain why she changed her mind if she changes her mind. I see this more an action for scum to do.
Also, there's some WIFOM invloved. Especially in the part of Soccer.

Percy: To me, Percy is giving the greatest town vibe of all players present. Those long posts that he had made all perfectly explains his own opinions and who he finds scummy. It seems to me the moment I read - "His conscience is clean. He is not afraid of looking scummy or other people picking on his posts, because he knows he isn't scum." It just gives me that kind of feeling. Every post he had made seems to have all his thoughts well poured into them, without hiding anything. He just seems to want to try his very best to help the town. You all might think that my text here seems very cheesy, but that's seriously the feeling that I get from reading Percy's posts. No scumfeel at all. If he really turns out to be scum, I'll be very shocked.

ORLY? Then who does he see as scummy? Because so far, he's asked questions about nit picky things (Hypocrite?) has given his opinion of the Kmd - Korts discussion and has defended himself against the accusations from Kevin and Korts. I don't see anything where he tells us who he thinks is scummy. So please tell.

[ZazieR]

11. Once the game is over I will post links to each QT thread. If you have an issue with this please let me know.

DDD? Did you know about this? Perhaps we should ask the mod if he won't show the other players what we have talked about for the obvious things written in it...
Especially for those who aren't 'adults' yet

Jail bait?

Well, you should actually think about something else
(HINT: our convo yesterday)

Hey

baby

, how are you doing?

*shrug*

[ZazieR]

Kirroha

I don't find how it seems fence-sitting, but I have to say I play differently than Korts. It's still early in the game, only page 3, so I prefer looking at everyone as an equal and say what I think about them first rather than just zoom in on one like what Korts is doing. I can't be too sure anyone is scum. Here, two mislynches can cost us the game, so I think if I play like Korts it would make it too easy for the scum.

You're points against MM all are following the same thing:
*That, but this....
This gives you the possibility to easily change your opinion when players don't agree.

Next was Korts. For each thing you could have given your opinion off, you name each interpretation that could be possible. You even call each possible connection between the allignments of Kevin and Korts a possibility. Once again, this gives you the option to alter your opinion to what other players say.

And last where you were fence sitting was Kevin:
If he's town, he would do this.
If he's scum, he would do this as well.
If both are scum, we won't know.

So you took no chance regarding Kevin's allignment.

What happened to Korts also happened to Soccer, but here you took more of a stance. But even then, you took every possibility.

And Soccer? O_o

He tells the mod about a mistake on his vote. If he were scum, there is absolutely no benefit in doing something like this, knowing that it most probably won't be noticed and would just increase his vote count by 1. He could always pretend not to see my vote, and still pass off as town. But he pointed out the vote. Either he is scum with a ridiculously high level of sportsmanship or town.

He's honest. I doubt scum would like to reveal the fact that they don't want to die.

First, I find your "meta vote" on Percy quite interesting, so I would like to see some posts from the other games which caused you to think that he's scum.

I named three games: Open 98, Mafia 87 (both as town) and mini 751 (scum)
Mafia 87 shows the meta argument the most for the town side, and you can compare it with mini 751.
It's a lot to post, and you can see his posts in context if you check it yourself.

[ZazieR]

Kirroha

I don't think anybody here wants to die, not even scum. But you are there, saying nobly that you would be biased against your lover, which doesn't sound particularly right to me. It's alright to not be biased against or towards your lover, and that is the most townieish to me - being neutral to everyone as a suspect, but I think you are leaning far too much to one side.

Everyone, do you realise something? Korts has suspected a few people before. One of them was Percy, his lover. However, one thing you have to notice: He voted for my lover, Mitey, just because of one post of hers (and he didn't provide much proof; just jumped on her wagon). Yet, he has never shown the slightest inkling of ever wanting to vote for Percy.

And you say that you are naturally biased against your lover? I think it's just something you said to make people falsely assume that you are town.

So wait, Korts is leaning too far to one side, which you don't like. But you also don't like it that Korts hasn't voted Percy. Wouldn't he be leaning too far to one side, if he voted Percy? To me, the answer is 'yes'. So I don't know what to think of these two quotes.

Two questions:
-How come you think that if Korts is scum, his partner is either me or DDD, while you know that scum can buss?
-Based upon this quote:

And what makes you so sure that I'm scum? It's still quite early in the game, and there's no way you can be so sure. Doing so just makes it easy for the scum to hop up.

Didn't you do this as well when confirming your vote against Korts?

[ZazieR]

But anyway, I've got good news
DDD has told me he's not scum. Which means we only have to check the three other pairs to win. This should be easy

[ZazieR]

EEEEKKK, ^^ quote war!!!
Watch out for the next post bomb! Everyone, DUCK!!!


In normal language: The above post scares me due to it's length, but I'll do my read though it may cost me my life.

Morituri te salutant

[ZazieR]

Ok, so it did cost me my life...
However, I've turned into a zombie. Though I don't know what my new win condition is as zombie, I'll still comment on the last posts. If my win condition has changed, I'll post the new versions afterwards.[/joke]

Kirroha

You're points against MM all are following the same thing:
*That, but this....
This gives you the possibility to easily change your opinion when players don't agree.

Yet, I listed down which possibility I found the most possible. I didn't just put the possibilities there and run away. I stated my stand.

But according to you, you might be biased. Which is rather strange as you have admitted yourself, there's 50% chance that your partner is scum if you're town.
Also, why is some kind of "trying-to-fit-in" thing scummy or not scummy? Because you only called it weird.

Next was Korts. For each thing you could have given your opinion off, you name each interpretation that could be possible. You even call each possible connection between the allignments of Kevin and Korts a possibility. Once again, this gives you the option to alter your opinion to what other players say.

Yup, I named each one, and I stated which possibility was the most possible. Even now, I'm not yet completely convinced that Korts is scum. I don't know how he plays in other games. I'm only voting for him because he seems the most suspicious to me at the current moment. But Korts took offense to it too easily. So I find that pretty weird.

But now, he isn't mentioning Kevin's random vote anymore. He's mainly focusing on you. So are those points you mentioned still valid? If you think they are, why? (I'm talking about the relationships points that you noted between Korts and Kevin) And now that you've seen more posts, which of these do you see as most likely:

1) Korts was also having fun.
2) Korts just desperately wanted to find some clue to cling on to. (Then again, why the desperation?)
3) Korts and Kmd are scumbuddies and did this early on in the game as distancing.

And last where you were fence sitting was Kevin:
If he's town, he would do this.
If he's scum, he would do this as well.
If both are scum, we won't know.

So you took no chance regarding Kevin's allignment.

I shall assume that by 'Kevin' you meant Kmd.

That's why I stated in that post that I'm not very sure yet, so I'll need more information because I can't find any way to interpret his actions at that time.

Kevin is indeed Kmd. But can you say now which is most likely?

What happened to Korts also happened to Soccer, but here you took more of a stance. But even then, you took every possibility.

Okay, I really don't understand who you mean by Soccer.

My mistake For one reason, I had a mix up between soccerhate and sonic. I meant sonic.

So wait, Korts is leaning too far to one side, which you don't like. But you also don't like it that Korts hasn't voted Percy. Wouldn't he be leaning too far to one side, if he voted Percy? To me, the answer is 'yes'. So I don't know what to think of these two quotes.

No - By that I meant that Korts

stated

that he would be biased against his lover partner, but his actions completely contradicted what he had said, so I think that he had only said that to seem town.

But isn't he suspecting his lover? So where is he contradicting this?

Two questions:
-How come you think that if Korts is scum, his partner is either me or DDD, while you know that scum can buss?

I know that scum can buss, but scum would try not to do so, especially when their partner is not yet under suspicion.

Unless he is already bussing his own scum partner and is ignoring you and DDD just to draw suspicion on himself and one of you.

Scum WIFOM?

Didn't you do this as well when confirming your vote against Korts?

But he was the one who did it first! D: And he purposely said that I'm scum even though there's not much proof, so I didn't see why I can't do that to him either. [/childishmindset]

I interpret this as a 'yes'.

But anyway, I've got good news
DDD has told me he's not scum. Which means we only have to check the three other pairs to win. This should be easy

But I thought you can't just trust your partner that easily? Mitey has also told me she isn't scum, but I still get slightly suspicious even though I'm trying very hard to trust her. I believe that we need to trust our partners in order to be able to catch the scum, since they are the only people we can privately talk with, but no matter how hard I try I'm still getting suspicious signals from Mitey. Why don't you have that problem?

Well, I don't have that problem as I'm a third party role Though did might change as I'm a zombie now
(Just see post 90)

[ZazieR]

Percy

his post 30 is a good case of only information and not taking a stance. This was not the case in the games I've seen him as town (open 98 and twice in mafia 87). This however was the case in mini 751 (Suzumiya Haruhi Mafia modded by Tar).

Now let me deal with the meta stuff straight off the bat. Mafia 87 is a great example of why I am more cautious about launching at people. Note that a lot of the first day is me fighting with Scheherazade, and both of us were town. What a clusterfuck that was. Nowadays, I prefer to wait a little bit. It's not scummy to wait for a few pages before you start throwing your weight around. Advocating caution is not a scumtell.

We have two, maybe three choices to make. We have to get at least two of them right. And that's it. That's all the information we're going to get. No roles, NKs, or anything else that might help us out. Now why the hell do you want to rush into things?

Will look later at your other games then.
And advocating caution can be a scum tell. I've seen townies do it, but also scum. Both think caution is a good thing. So it's maybe not a scum tell, but it's also not a town tell.

I'm 'rushing', because I believe that caution doesn't bring us anywhere.

So, if I as third party role would vote Korts, what would that give as information?
And if Kevin would vote DDD as scum, what would that give as information?

I don't see how a random vote gives information, so please explain.

I don't know what you mean by "third party role", and why would Kevin vote DDD as scum? That's the important part of the information we can gather.

A third party role is a role that's neither town nor scum. I've already explained why I'm a third party role, and why the mod is scum
You still haven't explained how the RVS gives information

You may have given your opinion, but you were still on the fence. You said Kmd's vote was not pro-town. That to me, is repeating Korts words, but only nicer. You clearly did not agree with Kevin's vote, yet you're saying that if he changes his vote, all will be forgiven. That's clearly not taking a stance.

I didn't like the vote. I said as much. I invited him to change his vote, and he hasn't. See below.

But he did change his vote. Twice after his random vote. It's now on you. Did you miss them both? Does this change your stance on him, and why?

What do you mean by "been here once"? And I'm not giving advice to the scum - I'm pointing out that the strongest voice in anyone's lynch will be that person's partner. If the partner is gung ho, "let's lynch my lover", then we probably should. Do you disagree?

Percy's reaction to Korts his selfvote
This is what I meant.
And I disagree. Because one player says that his lover is scum, doesn't mean that he's right. It only shows that the attacker of the two might be town.
Besides, if you agree, you may vote yourself

But anyway, I've got good news
DDD has told me he's not scum. Which means we only have to check the three other pairs to win. This should be easy

What exactly is the point of this post?

Well, as is known, I'm a third party role. So I notify you all that DDD has stated that he's not scum. Which means that we should lynch the mod (for my reasons already given) and afterwards, search for his partner which isn't me or DDD
That leaves 6 players left, of which one includes scum. That means we win
Seriously though, I like posting random stuff which I see as funny

[ZazieR]

Will be leaving soon (conecrt). Sorry for my inactivity lately. Things have happened...