Open 142: True Love (Game Over) before 784

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Hi there, starting my read now

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Unvote

Definitely a good thing. How's it going DDD?

First off, I want to mention that I'm glad Kirroha stopped doing the like four options for every action as that would get you WIFOM'd to hell if you were town (I view that type of posting to be easily manipulated), and give you easy outs if you were scum.

Next: I'm trying to figure out why Percy is at L-2. Oh, meta and then accused IIOA; coupled with a non-removed RVS vote.

@KMD: You don't have to worry about jailbait anymore, you might end up with another avatar like your current one.... I don't even want to know the story.

@Mitey: Isn't the point (partially) of mafia to be able to talk openly (as town) while not trusting some of the people that you're talking to? When you get back, elaborate on what you agree with that Kirroha has said.

WRT: Kirroha: I've seen a couple newbie scum tells from her. Most notably is what KMD picked up on concerning not voting for Korts right away, then after KMD brings it up in 70 has found reason enough to vote and confirm vote in 75 and 80 respectively so as to get rid of appearances of not wanting to vote him. Note that I think she would do this regardless of Korts' role, not wanting to vote for a townie, or not wanting to vote for a scumpartner.

Also, with her stance on my previous player, 2 out of the 3 have sonic as scum, and the reasons for dismissing them are weaker, while the first is overexaggerated for those people who don't know my alignment. To assume so much over a simple statement and classify as really pro-town kinda pings my scumdar as well.

Nitpicking every post, especially of the person attacking you really gets on my nerves as well. Can't say whether or not this is a scumtell yet, but it's anti-town IMO as it tests the patience of the town by giving them something generally worthless to read. I feel that leads to people skimming over your posts which is a good way for scum to hide any slips.

Finally, got crossposted a couple times so:
Hi Percy (I disagree with your opinion that RVS is useful as anything other than to get one thing to get the ball rolling)

@DDD: Would you think that Kirroha's vote/confirm vote while doubting it is more of a way to signal to the scumbuddy that it's not as serious or that it's a breadcrumb if votes start to pile on Korts (for any particular reason) and therefore gives her something to point to if she doesn't want to lose a scumpartner and unvotes later on?

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@Percy: If you think vague is a scumtell, you're going to have a hell of a time when you get a worse group of people to play with than this.

@Korts: Well, the main people that Kirroha talked about in 87 were Zazier and you. Zaz hasn't posted yet and especially replacing in I like to see people defend themselves rather than jump in for them. Rereading 87 again still makes me feel that her case on you is rather flimsy (as well as the points "against" Zaz) and should be easily refuted without too much effort giving you time to look at everyone else as well.

Slips are a bogus way to go after people for the most part. Some on top of already scummy actions is one thing (and still a weak "top it off" point) but everybody goes through and thinks of people as either innocent or scummy. My take on DDD's comment was that he felt Korts to be town, and therefore a lynch on him would be a mislynch. As right now I also feel that Korts is more townie I can see exactly where he's coming from.

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I kinda want to see Percy's response to KMD's post. While Kirroha's play is dinging my scumdar, Percy's is as well.

On a related note: while I'm getting plenty of korts, percy, kirroha (and *lately*) DDD posting, I want to see more out of Mitey, Zaz and KMD too.

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Couldn't we just have people vote for NoLynch as it's a nightless setup and we'll still be in the same boat as we are now?

Yes you could and that's sort of the point. 15 days is plenty of time for 8 people to reach a consensus. Short of moving (or removing) the deadline, I'll change the deadline rules to whatever you want me to change them to, but you must all agree to the rule changes.

3. Please try to maintain more than the minimum standard for activity levels which is currently 1 post every 48 hours. If you go 48 hours without posting you will be prodded (as many times as necessary) and if you go 72 hours without posting you will be replaced. Exceptions will be made for low activity periods such as weekends and holidays.

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Percy, give up the RVS reason already. If I hadn't replaced into as many games as I have, I always just vote for somebody that doesn't have a vote. That's as useful as KMD always voting Zaz if they're together. I'll admit all day every day that it's a placeholder vote until I actually see anything and I don't have a problem with that and I don't see why people are really bringing it up. He has the meta to do it probably no matter what his alignment so it's a null tell. I act the same way every RVS, and that's a null tell.

Heck

I believe this situation can be (mostly) resolved when Kmd votes for someone else; or, he could stubbornly cling to his vote on Zazier, and if he decides to do so, I'd like to hear more detailed reasons as to why this will produce good info for the town.

KMD has since moved it to mitey in 43 and you in 70. Apparently it's not mostly resolved as you're still pissing and moaning about it. Also, since you voted him for this (after saying it could be resolved and he placed his vote *on you* it sure as hell is still OMGUS.

I also wanted to point out some things that caught my eye since joining.

You also claimed some super-scum-hunting abilities when it came to this new player.

He claimed no such thing. He said he had a good read on me. We've played a couple times together and so far he's been right on the button about my alignment at all times. Saying that he has a meta on me is helpful, and if necessary to prove a point one way or another he'll have something he can point to out of experience. I feel that to be a great help to the town, just as Zaz can point out your games and we can read them at our leisure if we want to to try to get a better feel for you (also good).

Your points that came under scrutiny for the IIoA claim: You deem the RVS to be useful (not really taking on anything in this game). You state that there's two votes that needed to be pointed out (kmd > zaz) and sonic > korts. For the first you said that it fits his meta (Useful? Not really. We all knew that as he admitted to the fact. Not adding to the game). Said it wasn't anti-town, and wasn't pro-town. So by you saying it's neutral (that you're now kinda going against) you took absolutely 0 stance on it. You *finally* ask something about the game, which was about Sonic's vote on Korts. Sonic said it was random but you chose not to believe it and questioned it. Out of 5 paragraphs (and some one liners) you finally question a random vote. That isn't a stance, it's wondering about it and asking. It's still close enough to IIoA that I'm concerned, but it doesn't fit the bill 100% (maybe only 98%). Personally I still view that as a useless post with inflated content to make you look more protown.

Well, as it's an open setup between townie and scummy, if you're not townie, you're scummy. It makes sense to me at least. There's no "neutral" ground in my eyes.

Finally, for your point about the kmd and zaz relationship. The only way you accusing him for saying that zaz is town really is only effective if both of them are scum. KMD-scum and Zaz-town, the read is right, and good for us. KMD-town and Zaz-town the read is right and good for us. KMD-town and Zaz-scum the read is wrong, and since you're disbelieving of it anyways it's not *really* that bad. KMD-scum and Zaz-scum is the only one where he has true knowledge and is lying about it.

Your points are weak, Percy. I'm about || close to voting for you, and the only reason I'm not is because I want to see more of Kirroha's posts to decide who is scummier. Also, because I view Korts to be more pro-town and somewhat logical, I'd also want him to stay around and therefore I need less of a reason to vote for Kirroha (as Mitey, who hasn't added much would die as well).

(DDD crossposted, and his case against Kirr sums up what I'm feeling there too. 7 was probably about 75% fluff and posting to see your own writing is a scumtell in my book (much for the same reasons that DDD had pointed out) and also due to the fact that larger posts tend to have scumtells get lost in the shuffle. Clearly that's anti-town behavior.)

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Um, how did you manage to get a good read on someone who just said, "Hi there, starting my read now "?

DDD and I have played with each other before on this site, so he has a read on my playstyle. I even addressed Percy asking this same question (basically).

He claimed no such thing. He said he had a good read on me. We've played a couple times together and so far he's been right on the button about my alignment at all times. Saying that he has a meta on me is helpful, and if necessary to prove a point one way or another he'll have something he can point to out of experience. I feel that to be a great help to the town, just as Zaz can point out your games and we can read them at our leisure if we want to to try to get a better feel for you (also good).

WRT your 4 options again, we're all mafia players. If we can't figure out the options on our own, we deserve to be whacked over the head with a clue x 4. If you have to write them down, do it separately as we don't need to see your reasoning for all 4 options or whatever. It's better to just give you conclusion, back it up with your reasoning *for that option* and not waste space by giving us something that we already could've figured out and are wasting our time and concentration reading useless info.

Being concise > explaining *everything* in my book.

IIoA is a scumtell first according to Tarhalindur (obviously other people can look for other people's supposed scumtells). It's information instead of analysis (and you can get there by searching IIoA in the Wiki). Basically it's saying that you're commenting on the state of the game rather than actually placing your opinion about it. It's a form of active lurking (but harder to pick up on). You're posting, but you're not really contributing to the game with it (and with my stance on "fluff" commentary) I find it harms the game making it scummy and therefore agreeing with Tar though I'm much worse at picking it out.

Only scum find no need to look through posts since they know who the scum are anyway and all they need to do is to conceal themselves.

False. Scum also need to appear to be scumhunting so as to not get called out for not forming their own opinions.

I looked back at the posts between where you (kirroha) posted your scumpairs and then your analysis of the people individually, and the only thing that Korts really disagreed with was KMD's vote being anti-town. As Percy took (close enough to) the same stance, yet they're both on opposite ends of your scum spectrum. Why was this? And please, only take evidence from the first 63 posts since that's all you had to work with at that point.

@Zaz, it's ok, zombies aren't that different than VT's, just with the added condition of if somebody else becomes a zombie in game you win. As my first *real* post came at like 1 am after 2 hours of going through the game I was the first zombie. Since you're a zombie now, I suppose I win, but I'm guessing mod-scum will decide that me winning isn't fair because he wanted to win. Either way, as we're both zombies, I'm assuming he'll set up a quicktopic for us any time in here so we can profess our love for brains.

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That's the point, Mitey. You can't be sure of your lovers alignment.

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Just trying to be Captain OnTopofIt!

Sounds like title-fishing. Die mod scum!

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Mod: Can we poke KMD or something? Coming up on 36 hours since last post...

Already prodded KMD since it's been 60+ hours since his last post. He has yet to pick it up.

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1. Are you saying that if Kmd was lynched and flipped scum, you'd be more inclined to believe Zaz was town? I don't understand how else "good for us" can be taken.

Or we get a scum lynched, which is good for us.... >_>

Also, KMD was the only one to vote for Zaz, so it kinda acts like one of my votes, which is why I didn't criticize him as much. As nothing particularly spectacular or anything happened in the RVS, his vote still generated discussion (good) and he still moved it to where he wanted it (good). I just don't see what was so bad about it at the time. One action in the beginning of the game doesn't stop us from getting a read on him. It showed me that he's comfortable with Zaz, and depending on how the rest of the game turns out I should be wary/look into their conversations a bit more.

As to meta, I generally am against it, but there are certain things that you can look for. In a newbie game that I replaced into, SensFan (pretty well known, long time *good* player) self voted. Obviously, we thought it was scummy, but his meta was such that he does odd things when he's town. We stopped suspecting him, and he turned out to be town when he was NK'd. Meta can be useful, just that people have to pay attention.

Certainly if you have an opinion on somebody, nobody *should* ignore it, especially if it's a valid concern. I would hope that somebody being comfortable with another player doesn't make you feel like an outsider though, as there's 6 people not of the "comfortable with each other" pairing.

Even with your argument, it still falls under the necessary but bad heading to me. It's really helpful to give a discussion starting off point, but as soon as we have anything to discuss, moving out of it is good. Therefore we need it, but we should get out of it as soon as possible. Is that really that hard to understand? You're making basically the same points that I would for my argument, we're just coming to different conclusions.

KMD and I are using our quicktopic. Mostly just commentating, giving a general "feel" to players, nothing that wouldn't be ripped apart out here cause there's nothing that substantial to it. I also feel that it gives an extra layer of mafia-ness too, since you don't know the alignment of who you're talking to. As a townie, I like it as I don't have to censor myself and if KMD slips as scum, it gives me something else to point against him in my mind. Though if everything is all good in a private forum where slips are less likely to be picked up on (since they're only being read by one person) then it can give me an added level of security. Personally I'd be somewhat suspicious if people weren't using their quicktopic as that would show me that they have something to hide.

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@Kirroha: Does that mean you know that Percy and Korts are both Townies?

@KMD: The "odd things" that SF did were all noticeable and rather different. Self voting, quick L-1's, stuff like that that generally are obvscum tells he consistently and only did while town. It was always just one action, but it was always an extreme one that occurred. So in some cases meta can be helpful. I also fall more on your side of the argument about meta too. I'll admit I don't have the most experience, but there are times where I just get a feel about somebody that I've played with before that just isn't right and I'll infer something about that and I don't see why people are jumping on that as much as they are. There are definitely gut players and logic players, and most are a mix of the two. Both styles are effective, and if it's worked before why knock it?

Where'd DDD go? >_>

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Yea, it was always only one extreme action to move things out of the RVS stage, and the rest of the time he was just his normal self.

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Percy is the towniest player to me thus far. I really don't know why you all are so eager to lynch him at the beginning. Lynches are very precious to us in this setup. We really can't waste it. That's why I won't let you all lynch him.

I guess the question then becomes what are you doing to show why you think he's townie, or on the flipside, how would you stop us from lynching him? Clearly with this setup it'll be hard to lynch *anybody* as if the lover doesn't want to die, we'll need 5 out of the 6 other people to vote for him.

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(Hypothetical, not necessarily what I believe): Say Korts is scum and just doing a great job of hiding it. (Or even if Korts is town and he views Percy to be pro-town) He won't vote Percy, Percy won't vote himself. We need 5 to lynch out of the remaining 6 players, and kirroha has stated that she will not vote Percy. Therefore we need 5 out of the 5 remaining to vote for him.

So 2/3rds of the randomly generated set-up (if not looking at actions) Korts should not vote for his partner (korts-townie/percy-townie and korts-scum/percy-townie).

Why I said it in the first place is that Korts obviously views you to be scummy (hence the vote) and is suspicious of Kirroha, so not as suspicious of Percy. At least that's how it looks to me. If I thought you were scum, I'd vote you for outing scum, and allowing me to free up some time for a different game.

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In the case of KMD-scum and Zaz-town, KMD saying that he thinks that Zaz is town both makes him look more suspicious, and also is telling the truth about a townie. I fail to see how this is not beneficial.

And hating the RVS and therefore doing the same thing every RVS isn't exactly a scumtell either.

@DDD: But Kirroha's reaction towards Percy also doesn't make much sense from a townie perspective. There's no way to be that certain about another player's alignment, and then to be that adamant about somebody's alignment that you don't know doesn't make any sense to me either.

Most of the topics that we're talking about in our QT are irrelevant, or weak enough to not bother with bringing them up here as there's little background to any points that we've made, and would easily get ripped apart. However, with Percy also seeing where I'm coming from, looking for slips in a more one-on-one setting is beneficial, and can help you determine the alignment of your partner.

(Just as an example of some of the irrelevant bits in our QT: We have an avatar bet going on. I fail to see how that's especially useful in game). Also, as much as I want to be a logical player, I also go by feel a lot, and getting a feel for my partner is extremely useful to me, but I don't know how useful that would all be to you as my feelings almost certainly will differ from yours or anybody else's.

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You weren't that emotional though in that game DDD, and I never said anything quite so outrageous.

If you had to pick one situation for them what would it be? Kirr-scum/Percy-town, Kirr-town/Percy-scum/both town?

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The more I see of Percy and KMD's back and forth the more I both agree with KMD and think that the two of them are not aligned. Percy's arguments seem to be more and more strained as they go along, while KMD is responding .. probably better than I would if I was in his position. As I believe Kort to be townie, that means that it's at least possible that Percy is scum.

@Mitey: What were you thinking of quoting from your QT that you wanted to share/thought was relevant to here?

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@Percy: Yes, several "points" in your post have me either crying because of the ridiculousness of your points or laughing cause if you're scum you're making it hella easy on us.

Honestly, I don't think it was that suspicious, especially since in the one set of circumstances where it might make you wonder, it's still beneficial. It's like a sprinkle on an ice cream cone. If I see a lot of suspicious behavior out of him, then I could go back and try to add that to a string of suspicions. If I think he's town, the suspicion isn't even there, and he's being honest with his read. I believe it's a null-tell, and it 100% depends on your read of the guy on other points and that one should be dropped. The more you get to know a player, the less you really need to see what they're thinking. With the number of games that they've played together, I don't have a problem with him saying it's his read.

Right now, I think you're grasping at more straws. From an outside perspective *I* can refute all of your arguments fairly easily. That signals to me that it's a weak case, and those are more typically scummy cause they're going after people that are innocent most of the time (obviously leaving out bussing).

@Mitey: Sounds like since you're recovering this seems like a perfect time to catch up and post some opinions about this game.

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Sajin: What's your perspective on the game so far and using the quicktopic? (btw welcome to the game)

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Thanks farside!

I'm still looking for more of kirroha and percy to keep answering questions specifically of them, mostly due to the fact that they're raising the most red flags. The reason I'm not questioning them is due to the fact that their red flags are always directed at other players, and they can just as easily (and so far have) questioned the two of them about the same as I would, and I don't feel it's productive to ask the same question twice.

I would also like to hear from our replacement (Sajin) more about DDD, and then perhaps the rest of the town as a whole as well. I'd also like to hear your thoughts about using the quicktopic.

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I actually wasn't too concerned with KMD's statements. Personally I agree that in the odd chance that Percy is town (I'm not sold on that either) he's playing terribly. With the "fight" between KMD and Percy, I'm absolutely convinced that they're not scumbuddies together. They *might* be townies together, but I don't think that's as likely as KMD-town and Percy-scum, though I'm firmly of the opinion that KMD is town.

The thing that gave me pause (finally), is the statement that got him warned. The whole "F u and the horse you rode in on" is more of a righteous statement than a defensive one, and with me not being able to get a read on the DDD/Sajin pairing at all, I could see a Kirroha/one of them pair. Mitey and Korts are both (korts especially) pretty town in my eyes, while KMD is as well.

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Korts: 2/3rds of your verbal turns are in one line, and something that nobody but scum can be sure about. Either way, after the "but" is the same position that I've held for a long time. I'm not seeing any turns.

The way I used actually means that I'm in contradiction to at least 1 stated position, where I don't think that KMD was that over the top with his comment about Percy.

Sajin and DDD are still AWOL at times.

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And your last post was 1 line saying you don't understand a point. Huge contribution... I understand it's the weekend but I see a lack of content out of both you and Sajin.

At worst, there's 1 scum per lover pairing, right? If I view Kirroha to be scum (which I do) then Mitey is town, no?

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Oh, shoot, I forgot about the deadline. Nobody really brought it up until now. Kirroha is definitely in my top 2 suspects, so I'm not opposed. However, I hate seeing a deadline lynch without a consensus or majority or anything, so I feel it necessary to have to hold myself up to scrutiny and being responsible for my words and actions.

Vote: Kirroha

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Sorry Mitey At least we only have 1 scum left though. I'll be doing a reread later to see if I think Kirr's obvpairing/defense of Percy is really a scum pairing or no.

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Hmm, I find it interesting that the only person that Kirroha really accused of being scummy/voted in serious for was Korts. She stated that both Percy and Sonic (my predecessor) were very pro-town. While true that she avoided the (now) DDD/Sajin pairing in her initial post talking about all of us, I feel this gives us a good starting point for "today".

I think the difference in opinion about Percy/Korts is interesting. Korts was confirm voted and was the only person that she ever really put suspicion on, and she wouldn't let us lynch Percy and this would save Korts as well. I think our last scum is in that pairing, and Korts (while looking pro-town) is the true partner.

Vote: Korts

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Newb scum often have a tough time lying/fingering innocent people as scum (I know I did my first game as scum). It's much easier to target your partner.

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Meh, my first time as scum (linked to in my Wiki) I attacked my partner pretty heavily especially the further the game went on. Either way, we have both viewpoints (attacking and defending) in the same pairing so bonus for us.

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How experienced do you believe Korts is?

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Well, with Percy not putting out his "case" against me in the 5 hours between when he said he would and Korts' hammer, I believe we got the last one one way or another.

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Not really, but lynching you if Percy is scum means we got the scum one way or another. In this case it was the "another".

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DDD is also my top suspect. I feel it's rather rare that scum is the top poster and getting away with it (for the most part). Saijin's coming in and attacking DDD primarily is what is making me feel he is town as well.

I went through looking at the three of you and how you all dealt with Kirroha as she's still our confirmed scum.

In order of my suspects:

DDD: First off, DDD is typically more verbose than he was in this game. I've only seen him as town in other games, and he's not talking nearly as much as he typically does. He wasn't that clear to give a reason for his bandwagoning, and as I believe KMD pointed out to Kirroha, scum like options. Bandwagoning without stating a reason and then coming back to make it sound more pro-town than it is (the bandwagon was very early) is scummy. ISO 6,7,8 were (respectively) vague, nothing, and welcoming me.

In 9, he has his (arguably) 2nd slip, with saying that a lynch of Korts is a mislynch. (In case you were wondering, there are people who say "us" when referring to townies is a scumtell/slip, and that occurred in the last part of ISO 5).

ISO 13 we get some analysis, but it's all against Kirroha. What I'd like to point out with this is this part of paragraph 3:

Her evaluation of sonicchaos (SC) is bizarre and completely opposite of my read.

Never before did DDD offer any opinion on Sonic, nor me for that matter. He doesn't point out his opinions on just about anybody, other than Kirroha.

ISO 14 is clearly aiming for (what we know now to be) a mislynch, and keeping his partner alive. "Kirroha is most likely to be scum, but Percy is a solid option". Why go after who's *not* most likely scum except for to keep your partner alive?

15 and 16 came after the infamous "I won't let you lynch percy" comment by Kirroha. DDD tried to come to the defense of Kirroha by stating that scum wouldn't act that way, while I was of the opinion that only scum would know Percy's alignment (this is clearly all coming with the current information out, where Kirroha did know Percy was pro-town).

Then in 17 he flip-flops back to Kirr-scum/Percy-town point of view after realizing his defense of his partner wouldn't work.

(Keep in mind that DDD *still* hasn't really addressed scumminess/townieness of basically anybody but Kirr and Percy. To ignore 5 players is extremely scummy in my eyes.)

Finally in 23, he realizes that he won't have a target in D3 when Percy mislynches and says that he doesn't like how I got a read on Mitey (for the record it was due to Kirroha being so scummy). He states that there's "too many twists and turns regarding Percy/KMD" (which there haven't) and that I attacked him for being AWOL when there was one weekend before that he was also away for. Besides, this was the whole awol comment, and hardly an attack that anybody should really take that personally: ":( Sajin and DDD are still AWOL at times."

KMD next.

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For KMD: obviously the first thing that pops out is the amount of back and forth between him and korts and percy both. However, I feel that tunneling like he did on Percy is still more of a town-tell than a scumtell, just due to the fact that scum are more worried to be out there, that aggressive and able to be called on so many things.

Already (contrasting him to DDD) he's attacked Percy, Mitey and Kirroha by ISO 19 (of 42), which at that time DDD hadn't even said that he'd put Percy at L-1 (still only having 1 suspect). Lack of suspects is still one of my biggest scumtells.

I'm skipping over most of what he said about Percy, mostly because at the time and still now I agree with his viewpoint of things rather than Percy's.

KMD also has now attacked DDD shortly after DDD's defense of Kirroha's "I won't let you lynch Percy". That's half of the current players, and twice as many as DDD. Most of the rest of his game is responding to Percy, so there's not much to comment on between him and Kirroha.

I'll get to Zaz/Sajin in a bit.

(BTW: kinda glad I don't have to change my avatar, though next game we're in we can have another bet if you want.)

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Yea, KMD; there's no scum/scum lover pairing, so with Kirroha being scum in my eyes, Mitey would then have to be town. As Mitey was rather neutral just on her own, Kirroha being scummy raised her from neutral to pro-town, even without much contribution.

I don't have much on Sajin, but him coming in and attacking his partner right off the bat accusing DDD of WIFOM arguing rather than using better facts than that make him townie in my eyes as well. Zaz was pretty pro-town throughout as well, so DDD really is my only target. We need 3 to lynch, and as there's only 1 scum there's really no possibility of a quick hammer if I'm wrong so I'll put my vote out there as well.

Vote: DDD

Also, KMD is right. As town, Percy didn't really have any knowledge besides his own suspicions, which isn't true knowledge. KMD and I both thought that we'd hit scum with that lynch/suicide pairing.

Just by going with Occam's razor: the simplest explanation is often the best. I thought we hit scum. Rather than adding in the extra step of me (as scum in your example Sajin) knowing that it'd hit two townies, deciding to speak up about hitting scum one way or another, and then being wrong is much more complicated than what really happened.

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I'm pretty well convinced that Amished has to be scum right now because of how terrible his arguments are against me since he's a better player than that.

You're placing a burden of proficiency on me. I have 4 completed games, and you've only seen me in two that are still ongoing. Of the two you've seen me in, I've been NK'd N1 both times, and therefore have only seen me in a very limited role regarding knowledge of NK's, links, anything like that. I've even mentioned in our QT that this is the first game where I've been able to find scum successfully.

First he tries to use playstyle against me (verbosity), except he himself admits he has no experience with my scum game which gives him no control group which makes his equation invalid.

I have two games of yours where you were town. In a game of *only* town and mafia, you not being in your town meta = you being mafia.

He tries to link kirroha and I together and goes so far as to suggest I was defending her when I vote her in my fourth post, never unvoted and pushed her as the lynch for the entire day except for one post when the game slowed down and for some reason it seemed like the kirroha wagon had no support.

Your vote in your forth post certainly wasn't because you were attacking her. BTW: Are you saying that

Kirroha's reaction is so blatant and extreme and I just can't see that making sense from a scum perspective.

If there's no significant postings in the near future I will put Percy at L-1

It could be town-kirroha's overly emotional version of the same thing I did in the last game we were in together and we were both townies in that game (in which case it doesn't speak to Percy's alignment).

are you "attacking her the whole game"? (BTW: I view this last quote as trying to play to my "emotions" to link this situation with you defending me as Town when I made it rather obvious that I didn't feel that it was that similar of a situation right after you made that claim.)

Going through again, you still weren't attacking her all game. Posts 6-8, 10-12, 14-16, 18, 20-23 (all of which were while Kirroha was alive) have nothing in them where you were attacking her. 14 out of 19 (going from 4 where evidently your vote was serious) are you *not* attacking her.

Furthermore, Amished says,

Finally in 23, he realizes that he won't have a target in D3 when Percy mislynches"

Except at that point I had completely backed away from Percy as scum, in fact in 17 I said...

The you putting Percy at L-1 was in 16. Being that close to voting for somebody, then putting them way down on your list not 11 minutes later (post 154-156) after I told you that your explanation wouldn't fly with me (making it clear that I wouldn't unvote Kirroha for your reason) is highly suspicious.

@Sajin: I said that I would look primarily at connections between our scum (kirroha) and the rest of you. As KMD has focused so much of his time on Percy (while I've also said that tunneling like that is more of a town tell)

@KMD: My analysis of your play was in 243. As I feel you to be more townie (for the reasons given), and I know I'm townie, it makes it easy for me. Sajin being townie in my eyes too gives me exactly who I need to look at from here on as well.

[Amished]

Mod: I might be in and out til about Sunday, sorry for the absence

[Amished]

Hmm, didn't see that one coming.

[Amished]

And sad-times, I spent a little free time typing up my case vs. DDD too now that's all gone to waste.