mini 819 - WWF Mafia: Over!

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Bodyslam: Kreriov

"The Brain" is not alliterative with Danny DiPietro, but if it was it would've been equally as awesome as "Debonair".

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Sorry, bout that, was having a nice a weekend as one can in Cleveland the past two days and didn't have computer access.

Anyways, I think massive's attack on VPB in 47 is quite wrong-headed as I see significant contributions from VPB on this page. Leading me to...

Russian Leg Sweep: Massive

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I still think massive's criticisms and suggestions are invalid as VPB's 63 succinctly notes.

Re: Archon, I actually don't have a problem with early claims given the post restrictions we face and the short deadlines. We need to get that information on the board early enough so that it can be properly evaluated and acted upon instead of being forced into a sub-optimal situation. However, calling for a claim at two votes is ludicrous and Archon’s response to people calling him out for it was unsatisfactory as well.

Backbreaker: Archon

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

We've got a player in Arachon who basically admits to behaving in a fashion that no townie would reasonably behave. He's obvscum and would be a ridiculously easy lynch if not for possible jester concerns. Except "luckily" we have don_johnson running around doing his best jester impression, which makes me much less concerned about Arachon possibly having that (usually unlikely anyways) role.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@Kise98

It's pretty obvious when I said that calling for a claim at two votes was ludicrous in that same post that it meant I felt it was too early. L-5 is not a reasonable juncture for a claim even in one with tight deadlines such as this. L-2/L-3 as opposed to the L-1 standard is, however, appropriate given the circumstances.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@Sotty7 (115) VPB mentioned the jester idea first which led me to consider the possibility. Besides, you haven't explained how such discussion hurts the town; it seems reasonable to me that if we view something as a possibility then we should discuss it and get to the truth of the matter.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@VPB (120)

Re: Locke Lamora, I just checked and I'd say that 75% of his posts come between 2 am and 9 am Eastern, so I'd say his explanation holds up.

Arachon is number one on my list still, he knowingly committed himself to an anti-town course of action. He's trying to hide behind meta and hasn't attempted to hunt scum at all, just remove suspicion from himself. His vanilla claim hasn't swayed my opinion of him at all.

Massive would be somewhat close behind him as he's clearly around but so far has shown little interest in hunting scum instead talking about the rules and speculating on setup and roles.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@Arachon (124) - With just a week deadline there's not exactly a whole lot of time to sit around and politely ask people if they're scum and wait for their polite response. Which means pressuring and bandwagoning scummy players like yourself and massive is the best tool available to get as much information as possible as quickly as possible. Furthermore, my point about you not scumhunting stands, while I expect you to defend yourself that's no excuse for not trying to find scum as well.

Massive's 130 is an absolutely terrible post and it looks like he's simply fishing for a reason not to believe Arachon's claim. If Arachon wasn't OMGUSing me now on top of his other scummy behavior I'd be tempted to move my vote over to massive for that post.

Further analysis coming after someone else posts.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

You said I jumped on two wagons as if that was a bad thing, except given our constraints it's one of the most efficient ways to acquire information. I was also pointing out that you aren't scumhunting at all; merely trying to move suspicion off yourself when the two activites aren't mutually exclusive.

~

Continued from above...

Hamargarz' 137 is weak as well, he just generally disagrees with me instead of actually explaining on what points he disagrees. He also claims we all know his stance on massive, which apparently consists on a single line of him not believing the massive wagon was well grounded after previously criticizing massive himself for ad homs.

I see no good reason to lynch Locke at this point.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

As far as I can tell Hambargarz claims I'm his top suspect because he believes Arachon's claim and I do not which is absolute weak sauce. I've supplied reasons why I believe Arachon to be scum, if you have reason to believe them incorrect, show me why. And if you think is Arachon is town despite my reasons being valid, then you should be ahead of Arachon on my scum list.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Tell me about it Don, I ask for specific counters to the arguments I made and he provides none. In 167 he's not inclined to suspect Archon at all, he's still low on his list on 174 but Hamgargarz claims to be fine lynching him if it comes to it at deadline. I think I've got a new number one...

European Uppercut: hambargarz

I'll be around all plenty today/tomorrow to come back to Archon if the hambargarz thing doesn't work out.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@hambargarz(177) – Waiting for? Not Don specifically, but someone else to vote for you, yes. If no one else had any interest in your lynch then moving my vote would’ve been pointless and anti-town this close to deadline. As it stands it hopefully provides a viable option to people as well as expresses my opinion.

@Fabian(179) - Because if X is voting for Y even though the reasons for voting Y are weak as hell and X believes Y to be a townie then we’ve got a player who can skip the scumhunting and either distance themselves from a townie lynch or take credit in a scum lynch that they weren’t really part of. Unlike other votes which actually tell us something, a vote like that merely tells us that deadline was upon us.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@Sotty (185) – I wouldn’t vote for someone I firmly believe is a townie just to secure a deadline lynch, no. I would drop from voting the number one on my list to around number five on my list to do so though.

@LL (187) – I assume this is directed at me. I’m not concerned about looking anti-town; I was merely explaining why I wouldn’t take a certain course of action, it would not have helped the town (and thus would’ve been anti-town to take the course of action).

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Karate Chop: Archon

Nothing more to say, I don't like the behavior of the Red Wings fan though.

---

The "Damn near quittin' time...again!" holdcount

Archon (5) - Locke Lamora, Sotty7, VP Baltar, DDD, don_johnson

Locke Lamora (3) - xxFabianxx, SpyreX, massive

SpyreX (1) - Kise
Debonair Danny DiPietro (1) - hambargarz
massive (1) - Archon
don_johnson (1) - Kreriov

hambargarz (0) -
VP Baltar (0) -
Kise (0) -
Sotty7 (0) -
xxFabianxx (0) -
Kreriov (0) -

Relaxing in the neutral corner:

None!

With 12 wrestlers in the ring, it takes 7 to throw someone out.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@205 – Yeah, you’re coming off as a hypocrite on this topic. You claim it would’ve been unacceptable for me to leave my vote on the person I deemed second most likely to be scum at the time even though a vote for my top candidate would’ve been completely ineffective. Yet somehow you suggest that your voting for a player who you believe is town and is way down on your list is acceptable?

Either we should all only be voting for the person we believe most likely to be scum or we all are allowed to make concessions to common sense concerns such as the viability of a given lynch or an impending deadline. Your attempt to apply a double standard is noted.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Got four people I'm considering as scum: Kreriov, Fabian, Hambargarz, and SpyreX. All did their best to either avoid an Archon lynch when it was the only course of action or tried to stop it earlier and only hopped on when it was inevitable.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@Kreriov - Not in so many words, but when push came to shove you voted for a non-viable target nearing deadline, essentially voting for a no lynch instead of voting for the player we now know is scum.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@Kreriov - And you can say that people could’ve voted don and that’s technically correct, but it doesn’t match with the reality of this game. Six people were not all of the sudden going to shift to vote for a different player with just twelve hours until deadline and for you to argue that it was a possibility shows either ignorance to a huge degree or disingenuous to the same huge degree.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@Kreriov - While your statement may be true, from an outside perspective it's just as reasonable that you were trying to avoid getting your partner lynched/secure a no lynch hence why you are worth a closer look. If you can't recognize that such an interpretation of your behavior is at very least reasonable if not correct then there’s no helping you.

---

The "Page 10? Wow, you guys are slacking. I expected this to be abandoned by now..." holdcount

Kreriov (2) - SpyreX, don_johnson

Debonair Danny DiPietro (1) - Kreriov

Locke Lamora (0) -
SpyreX (0) -
massive (0) -
don_johnson (0) -
hambargarz (0) -
Sotty7 (0) -
xxFabianxx (0) -

Relaxing in the neutral corner:

Locke Lamora, Sotty7, DDD, xxFabianxx, massive, hambargarz

With 9 wrestlers in the ring, it takes 5 to throw someone out.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Actually, you're right, whether or not another lynch was viable is not important to the original list I compiled.

However, it does constituate a fine distinct second point against you, that under deadline instead of selecting from a viable target (besides Archon; Hambargarz, SpyreX, and LL all had two or more votes on them) you chose a target that wasn't going to be lynched.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@Kreriov - Liar. Liar. You cast your vote on Don at 10:46 ET on Thursday July 16. The Brain (the mod) re-announced deadline at being in 10.5 hours at 1:59 ET on Thursday, July 16. Meaning there were 3.25 hours between your vote and the announcement deadline, meaning you tossed your vote on Don just 13.75 hours before deadline, not a day and a half (~36 hours).

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I am not analyzing you in a vacuum. Based around my belief that early bussing on D1 is unlikely I isolated the four players who seemed most opposed to the lynch and listed them as people I was

considering

as scum. Then, before I could even do any follow-up analysis to pick out who I deemed most likely to be scum from that list you started arguing with me as if I had proclaimed you sure thing scum.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@Kreriov - My words were clear in 217; either you failed to actually read the post, you somehow decided I was proposing a five person scumteam in a 12 person mini, or you decided to ignore what I said in favor of acting outraged. Frankly, I'm not sure which of those is the best scenario and which is the worst, but they all suck.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Forest and trees. Despite my contrarian nature making me want to vote for SpyreX for pushing me, I think I'll accept his suggestion to continue to pressure Kreriov.

Brainbuster: Kreriov

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Dude, everything Don Johnson does is horrible, why just single out that one vote?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@SpyreX – I don’t know why you’re so quick to discount the possibility of scum setting up a fake PR claim. That being said, there’s no apparent support for a Kreriov wagon anymore, so I’ll be content to place him on a backburner and keep a watch on him.

Kneebar: Hambargarz

I outlined my reasons for suspecting Hambargarz yesterday and he still met my criteria for possible scum today. His posts today don’t improve my opinion of him at all as they seem to be devoid of scumhunting.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I'll bet a dollar on Don's response being something along the lines that he didn't lynch hambargarz, he'll instead say that he either tossed him from the ring or reverse suplexed him.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Did not see Sotty as scum and am therefore especially glad she’s gone. Strangely enough I think this validates my theory in regards to who the remaining scum is because I just can’t imagine both scum early bussing their partner. Thus I’m back and looking between Fabian and Kreriov as the remaining scum.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I'd like Kreriov to claim his flavor and role so we can consider those in evaluating his truthfulness.

With the revelation of two possible scum factions or a SK, LL is back on my board of possible scum.

With it taking four to lynch and six players we need Fabian to show up or to form complete consensus on who to lynch. Currently I'm leaning towards Fabian as most likely to be scum, but there's no need to rush a vote, especially when DJ has no issue quick-hammering.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Sgt. Slaughter, babyface Jobber.

I really hate Fabian's arguments about his role and barring someone else completely melting down I'll be voting him after the mass claim. Given the sample PM and Archon's claim it seems obvious that scum were provided with safe claims so I'm not seeing the point of the DJ and Fabian argument about Bret Hart's heel potential.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Right, right, let's go with Locke.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Both scum and town are going to have claims that seem plausibly town; the fact that you felt the need to defend your claim as pro-town suggests a relative lack of faith in it which is an issue that only makes sense from scum perspective.

---

The "

Looks like someone thinks this is a democracy!

" holdcount

don_johnson (1) - massive
xxFabianxx (1) - Kreriov
Debonair Danny DiPietro (1) - don_johnson

Locke Lamora (0) -
Kreriov (0) -
massive (0) -

Relaxing in the neutral corner:

xxFabianxx, DDD, Locke Lamora

With 6 wrestlers in the ring, it takes 4 to throw someone out.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Kreriov was on my original list of likely scum and I agree that his choice of his claimed targets doesn't appear to match with how he's played the game. Further, it's more than a little suspicious that all his targets are dead, it's much easier to claim actions for dead targets. On the other hand, Fabian's actions since I announced my prior intention have made me less suspicious of him, so I'll...

Elbow Drop: Kreriov

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Gah, I felt like I had this game on lockdown even though I chucked my partner on D1 (more aggressive than I usually am and almost assuredly less aggressive then I'll be in the future). Figured out Sotty was scum on D2 and got rid of her that night, and figured out Locke was her scum partner in the middle of D3, but unfortunately I had pushed in other directions earlier in the day and felt uncomfortable completely reversing direction. But Locke was going to die the next night.

This just exemplifies either Don completely failed to consider the endgame options before him by actually shooting for scum or he did consider them and thought I was town. If Don had killed massive or fabian, Locke and I cross-kill at night and the faces win.