Open 156 - Friends and Enemies - Game Over before 816

[itacv2]

Confirmed

[itacv2]

Vote Debonair

You seem quite jumpy as soon as you got some attention to you. I guessthat you have something to hide

[itacv2]

What would u like me to explain, i have just been reading and havent got any other reason to change vote whatsoever. I still think that using the whole jerk tone and saying it while evading to other topics could mean that indeed DDD is in fact scum. While the scope was on him, briefly, DDD was dodgy and managed to change the target from him. And why should i change my vote and bandwagon when there is little or close to none information or loose lead.

[itacv2]

Inactiveness is a way used by scums to lay low, but i think Toro has not shown a true scum face thats why i will not think bad about him, yet.

As for Raivann, HE IS AN EASY TARGET as was put before.
@Raivann- there is no way you can prove the case against you wrong, the only chance u stand is to detecting a threat bigger than you in order to avoid being lynched.

@DDD- since it was you who also broght to attention the change of playstyle in this guy what else you suggest could be a proper approach to this situation. Because even when i still think you might be scum, you are making a point there.

@everyone else- I still think That DDD has a chance to be a big shot scum, lol, but he makes a point. I think we might want to test the case.
Why? If Raivann is lynched and he is town we might be short of one people but a nontalkative one, since he is counterproductive is not a big deal and might then watch the patterns of behavior , the bandwagoners and reactions to the lynch.

Aside from this i dont think i can make at this time make a clearer case than the ones being held

[itacv2]

I just want to get movement, since this is going nowhere. Also you may think i want Raivann lynched when i dont. If you are paying attention i never retired the vote on DDD since i think at this moment he is SCUM and noone has proven otherwise or that we should consider any another player to check.

To lack of arguments my vote stays.

Also when i say counterproductive means that while we have a change that we may find useful information doing it, the chances are low compared with what has been called mislynches.

Also, If i said that Raivann could be mafia but if he was not, was ok anyways, you misunderstood it. What i meant was that given the evidence presented this could mean one of two things, either Raivann is Scum or DDD is looking extensively to change the crosshairs in his head. Or maybe both.

Change in playstayle is known as a kill me strategy for newbs, and a change like the one shown when a overly active player changes to idontwannaspeakalot guy, most of the time this happen because the player dont know how to impersonate the character that was assigned, meaning that he is either scum or important role character.

[itacv2]

I think is well explained what i tried to say. Maybe the words chosen are not the best, but given that my first language is not english, i think they were the ones i needed in order to say what i wanted. I guess.

That aside, what else, u want explained.
Im not certain that DDD is mafia. Im not certain Raivann is mafia either. Nor anyone can claim certainty. I had a gut feeling about DDD, he reacted defensively and harsh, thats ok for me at the moment, imo. No one else has presented any other evidence.

U might be right that i said wrong about Raivann, but i spoke without the evidence. Someone said he changed playstyle, someone secunded so i thought it was true, my mistake.

But u saying that I WANTED RAIVANN dead, that i cant permit, because i never said i wanted him dead, nor i made a move against him. I just explained my point of view in the current situation.

That aside, and DDD behavior as like he is not being held as suspect, led me to think that he does have something to hide. And his other posts changing the attention to people that havent done anything for real, his lack of arguments in defense of his vote. HIS CONTINUOS evasiveness on the topic, THAT is WHY i dont take my vote of him.

Vote Count #8

Completely unchanged!

Debonair Danny DiPietro (3) - Toro, itacv2, Raivann
itacv2 (2) - ekiM, ZazieR
Santos (1) - Kise
Raivann (1) - Debonair Danny DiPietro
Sho Minamimoto (1) - muzzz

[itacv2]

Honestly i havent been reading the whole thread. My first language is spanish.

Second, after reading a bit more you guys are right i do not have any more of a vague idea that DDD might be scum. He does have good points, but i dont seem to be compeled to beleive it. Dont matter how well you make points, that doesnt obviously make u town. As of now, since u guys made a point, and i do not, at this time, have any other reasons or evidence to pursue and keep pushing a DDD lynch i

Unvote

[b/]

Futhermore, when i said that i saw that Raivann could be mafia, even when i based some of the conjectures that falsely misled me, since i didnt verified the information which was shown to me later, I thought DDD was the bigshot and was trying to get the attention off him.

Right now, i would like to make a pause and answer all your questions:
I said that Raivann was easy target, but he is as easy as me, why, because we havent been able to prove a thing and we become catchy to symple eyes because our ways of saying things. Easy, not a bit, but rather acceptable, to lose, and i say the following knowing it can come back to me,someone that dont help a bit in early stages of game.

When i said that i wanted to lynch somebody to get the game moving, i didnt meant that i would like to end the day as fast as possible because that could meant an early town lynch, but rather than a bit mre congruent information or more incisive questions in order to reveal more of the people around. After reading every post again i found that i mistakingly said that there was almost no information to base conjectures when there was plenty, but i dont know how to use.

I must admit that Zazier have a point with my counterproductiveness argument. After spending a bit more time the only way to really use a mislynch is just after a day or two had passed in game. When then u can see how the approaches are to people, who brings attention to them and the way of making a case against them.

I think that the probabilities that Raivann turn town are higher than Zazier turning town.

If there are any other questions, post them, i will try to answer them before u guys make a desicion on lynching the wrong guy over wrong information

[itacv2]

Responding to a question that was made.

Im not soft pushing someone witha power role since there are no power roles.

Being able to talk at night is not power. Just additional ability. To my perception to be power role u need to be a cop or doctor or something like that.

That aside i dont think he is a mason either.

So no, when i said i thought of him as likely to be power role, i was directly implying that he was scum and nothing else.

That being answered.

@ Zazier: even when i believe DDD might be scum, im beginning to feel more inclined to think you are scum, since i thought in the beginning your predecesor was. I will like to question your desperately way to react to every comment made on the thread with an exquisite selection of arguments and none of them heve seem to lead anywhere close to a nice suspicion. I believe you are Scum, and you are hiddinng behind a leader character which i have seen can usually be one of the scums, and often do this in order to take the bullseye from their head.

[itacv2]

@Zazier- I think you are scum, and you are judging me, because i dont know how to write a list in a figurative way to say that you are a scum and point out everything you have done. You seem more experienced than those that usually lay low to not draw attention to themselves. As of now you just used my soft defenses to find yourself an easy target to first day lynch. Maybe you want more information from me. I might as well kill myself, because bby the looks you will not let me off since i cant provide a long post defining my position. Ive tried to explain many times, U dont seem to understand, and just zigzag from what i say and use it to say something else.

Also I do understand that someone has to be a leader in game, even if it is scum. U have handled well the character, but i think that you jumping accusations from player to player, strongly accusing each one of them, pushing for info and using that answers to say something else.

Unvote, Vote Zazier

You were right i didnt switched votes when i made a previous accusation, but now i do, because i strongly believe that u are scum.

[itacv2]

Zazier, im sorry for being naive, but i may say that it may be both, maybe not in your mind but they could be true and the second DOENST make the first untrue.

You may, in purpose, do it, or maybe, as sometimes has happened to me, you may understand a different think. You may even add a feeling i never used. I may say that in your posts you were angrily seeking for an easy kill. Or i may say that you said that Im saying you are leader of scum, when i never said you were leader scum, I said you were taking the leader part in the discussion, not leader scum. And i made reference that often someone that does this, with fierce aggressiveness, willing to quick answer each reply as soon as possible. Why i believe you might be doing this, because i have seen several times that after a role like that is taken, and by "knowledgeable" means the (sorry for the redundance, hope that is the word) direction is directed toward anyone else but yourself prove useful, while you actually seem like are playing protown, when actually you are looking for the easy kill, but a good one, since at night you will like to know more info from the town in order for a better night kill.

You may say, or change what ever i post, but that doesnt change my opinion that your moves are scumlike, maybe not to everyone, but to me.

[itacv2]

I think you are just using the fact that none of us know how to make a better case in your favor. I believe that i have addressed so far evry question you have dared to ask, is there anyone else who like to make a question, or should we proceed to Zazier in the matter of him making all the questions and nobody questioning him.

And answering you question about the leader (scum-town), at this time i believe that you might be hiding something, since there are no cops or doctors u might as well be scum, therefore, leaderscum, IF, and only IF, i came to believe that you might be town, THEN and only then you will be leader town.

I cant help to believe you being town since all your approaches and questioning have just focused into a few players at best, with not at much substantial evidence as to make a case, thus focusing all your effort iin a bit when either fromm hepling TOWN you might be twarting the chance to find out a better case, and a real threat.

[itacv2]

Welcome, ConfidAnon.

@ everyone: Just wondering... but most of you have been leaving me alone lately regarding the lurking. I have been lurking quite a bit yet no one seems to have taken much notice. Can I ask why?

You keep promising you're back and ready to participate. Maybe we are giving you the benefit of the doubt too much. I've basically been waiting for you and Kise to get back so the game can continue. There's just under a week until deadline now so it'd be really good if you did get that analysis done.

I'm going to do analysis post soon. Can everyone please explain their current suspicions of players so far in the game? I want to know where everyone stands before I make a huge post that could influence anything, just in case people decide to backpeddle and state they never had any type of suspicions on certain players.

itacv2 is my prime suspect. His suggestion to lynch Raivann was by far the scummiest thing I've seen this game, and his attempt to backtrack and lie about having said that made things worse. I think he should be our lynch for today. I'm a bit bemused by how little attention this is getting.

I've had a bad feeling about Santos. He hasn't made a real vote all game as far as I can see. He followed DDD onto Raivann, said he liked the logic, then did a 180. Later he voted Kise for inactiveness and later unvoted. Why no real votes? What are his real suspicions?

I wasn't happy with Exalt's and Kise's inactivity. Not sure that it's scummy though. I found myself agreeing with a lot of what Confide has been saying in his catch-up analysis.

I believe that i have addressed so far evry question you have dared to ask, is there anyone else who like to make a question, or should we proceed to Zazier in the matter of him making all the questions and nobody questioning him.

I have one you never answered.

itacv2, why do you ignore post 201? Look:

I still think That DDD has a chance to be a big shot scum, lol, but he makes a point.

I think we might want to test the case.

Why? If Raivann is lynched and he is town we might be short of one people but a nontalkative one, since he is counterproductive is not a big deal

and might then watch the patterns of behavior , the bandwagoners and reactions to the lynch.

But u saying that I WANTED RAIVANN dead, that i cant permit, because

i never said i wanted him dead, nor i made a move against him

. I just explained my point of view in the current situation.

How do you explain this contradiction?

You did say you wanted Raivann dead, didn't you? That we should "test the case"? Even as you hedged your bets and said he might well be a townie, but lynching him anyway wouldn't be a disaster. Then you lied about it, and said you never moved against him. Then you ignored me when I pointed out the lie.

As you have that bolded now i have not to, thats clear, i didnt say lets lynch him, i say that IF. If, IF. IF, it was done THEN, THEN, THEN it was most likely to see a pattern.

And if you want to keep saying that i wanted Raivan dead, be so.

[itacv2]

I might as well be dead today, instead of tomorrow, because in either case that another person is found suspicioous they will keep pressuring with the same arguments which were misunderstood.

Ifg you like to proceed, i claim to be mason, and even when this might end up in scums wanting me dead, i would like to point out that when i suggested that there were no powerroles id did it knowing that i had the only power role available.

That even when i pointed that the approach to Raivann could be useful, i never voted for him, nor intended to create a bandwagon, even when it looked that way, I did tried to suggest that if it was taken into consideration what could have been an outcome, but i could have been misunderstood like other things they have trued to put on me.

[itacv2]

I just gave mafia an easy target for tonights lynch, so i suggest that my partner shut the hell up, He can claim if he like but that way things look i might end up dead and he will end up regular townie anyways since he would have noone to talk at night.

For me, i wont reveal my partners identity, until he tell me to, or become absolutle necesary.

Exalt i would like to think good about your threats.

Zazier, i really think you need to be questioned but since so far i couldnt do it i invite another player to do it

[itacv2]

TORO is my mason partner.

[itacv2]

I think that after me taking a stance against Zazier it was best not to eliminate me but instead kill my partner.

Vote Zazier

again
I think that following DDD without evidence was a bad move. So i guess we should seek for the second scum in that list of Exalt votes