Mini 833 - Empire at War(The game is over?)

[Sajin]

NP! (Cough, when I need a replacement, your there for me, right?)

vote Mcavitylock

[Sajin]

Mcavity you are

likely

scum. God I got so tired of using likely all the time that game. Especially as I was one of the ones that could say someone was 100 percent scum. Heh.

[Sajin]

How is kreriov asking a question of someone scummy, reckoner?

Also, I have played with krer 3 times (this makes 4) and have been scum twice. He had me pegged as scum both times.

[Sajin]

I think Mcavitylock said that. Not Krer.

[Sajin]

Also, I have played with krer 3 times (this makes 4) and have been scum twice. He had me pegged as scum both times.

So?

1. mac, you're acting blind.
2. regarding bolded - Sajin is using the argument that you had against him, and using it for your benefit. Are you holding that against him?

1) How am I acting blind? There was the distinction that Krer made that I had previously missed, but we already went through that. Anything else I'm missing?
2) I'm interested in his reasoning for saying that. I didn't see it as being particularly relevant to any of the discussion we were having, so I'd like to know why. Also, why did you answer for Sajin?

I posted it to see if you would conclude anything off of that information as well. (Kreriov has experience with Sajin-scum and is not voting Sajin therefore he is scum. Sajin is not voting Kreriov therefore they are buddying or something else along theses lines)

If its not relevant, then your reason for voting me is irrelevant using that exact same logic. If it is relevant then I would figure you would conclude based off that information. You can't use the same argument both ways here. Not that I support any of this line of thinking, but I was seeing if you were willing to use that whole line of thinking or just take parts of it to twist into what you needed for this game. Which is it?

@Blood Did you lose your ID badge?

[Sajin]

YOU'RE ARGUING ABOUT A JOKE POST YOU FOOLS

If a so claimed joke post has a scum tell or scum base should it be ignored? Remind me of this for my next scum game. When I screw up I am going to type "JOKE POST, just kidding about that guys" and they will all pronounce the slip as a null tell. Yep.


Mcavitylock, if your posted reasoning is something you do not believe in then why post that reasoning at all? Why did you find it necessary to justify your vote? (And as a side note- why participate in the RVS at all unless you can conclude off it, is it all just noise then to you?)

[Sajin]

So you acted the way you did because if you did not you were fearful of people calling you out on it. Got it.

Why do you think its not warranted?

Also explain why your vote is now serious over before please.




Kreriov is likely town btw based on meta.

[Sajin]

Huh.

Unvote

. I just don't think Jebus is scum after that post.
I would post more content but I've gotta drive an hour back home now. (If anyone cares, I went and saw

Basterds

last night, didn't get home till 4am, crashed at a friend's apartment, went to class, saw my grandpa in the hospital, then went back to my friend's apartment and crashed. Now I'm leaving to go to my real home...)

Sorry, I know it's inconvenient. Also, @people vote Kre now because of the post I got blasted out of the water for posting on, what suddenly changed your mind as opposed to when I pointed it out?

Why are you asking people to vote someone your not voting yourself?

Also

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... start=1300

This is where I think Kreriovs meta means he is town jeebus. He is counterattacking as before. I would rather not state too much about it to use in future games. But you can decide if he is acting similarly or not.

[Sajin]

@jeebus- do you always find it useful as town to provide a list on day1? I think it just lets scum shape kills so thats a bad idea imo.

@Reck- sorry I misread your question. Could you not abbreviate every other word in a sentence? Makes them very hard to read. Thanks.

[Sajin]

@Santos- Great, can you enlighten the rest of us as to your scum team theories and/or why you think someone is scummy? Thanks.

@Kdub- Who is scum to you and why?

@Zwet- Postulating about setup can only help the scum at this point.

[Sajin]

@Santos-Why is everyone on your wagon scummy to you santos?

If I was to join with a vote on you, what exactly would make me scummier to you then before?

I think that your arguement is bad logic. Not everyone on a wagon is going to be scum.

That said I am not liking kdubs posts. Kdub- you criticized others for having a lack of content when you have some of the lowest in the thread. How does anyone mistaking the events of the thread make them scum?



@Reckoner- I am against lists on day 1. I think that can only help serve scum. My advice is you write one to yourself, if you need it to organize thoughts, rather than post it.

[Sajin]

That said I am not liking kdubs posts. Kdub- you criticized others for having a lack of content when you have some of the lowest in the thread. How does anyone mistaking the events of the thread make them scum?

Why are you condemning Kdub for scum hunting? He criticized Santos, who is acting scummy. And also dodging questions.

Eh I got it off iso. Read his iso's and you will see the hypocracy imo.

[Sajin]

Blah. I am not sure on Santos. I think Santos is actually trying to scum hunt this game. This is unlike my current suspect (Macavitylock) who I know is perfectly capable yet has not contributed as much as I have seen him do as town.

[Sajin]

Koc- I would love to hear your opinions about everyone.

[Sajin]

3. All public daykills should be

bolded

and use this format:

Kill: Whoever

Its probably legit. But, maybe you should ask around before you kill someone with this?

[Sajin]

A Miller who has other abilities? This sounds like scum to me. We got one!

[Sajin]

Slicey you REALLY need to give more input into something like that.

[Sajin]

I still don't like Mcavitylock, he usually scum hunts far better, although I am liking furry's case on kdub. I did not like kdub's hypocriticalness yesterday. In fact

vote: Kdub

And slicey I still think you should of given warning before you used your ability. If you can use it again please give warning. Thanks.

[Sajin]

@Slicey- I did comment on Santos, briefly:

Blah. I am not sure on Santos. I think Santos is actually trying to scum hunt this game. This is unlike my current suspect (Macavitylock) who I know is perfectly capable yet has not contributed as much as I have seen him do as town.

And Santos Replied:

Thank you. I thought I was talking to walls this entire game so far.

Santos obviously thought I commented on him. Why did you think I did not?

Now Slicey, I looked at your posts and noticed you were ignoring several people yourself. Why are you ignoring Zwet? Why are you ignoring Mclock?


@Furry/Slicey- I think he is either scum or Slicey misused his power.

A daykiller, if he was town, should daykill the would be lynch target. This way it effectively gives more information to us. If he would of daykilled santos for instance, we would of had most of the information we have now, and then we could of seen who would of wanted to lynch BC which would of been even more reads on people. With the way things happened, we have none of that. Now granted- the deadline was nigh, but that would be the optimum use as I see it.

Then again he did target a miller (in claim)...so that seems town. Thats probably the reason I am not voting him. I am getting mixed signals.

[Sajin]

@Furry/krer- As much as that conversation involves me, I am not going to comment on it. Make of that what you will.

@Furry- Could you please respond to my last post?

@Kreriov: I am interested to know your response to this post by Mcavitylock:

Anyone else want to explain to Krer why a lynch, any lynch, and especially a lynch of someone who couldn't answer a question I specifically directed him to, was better than No Lynch yesterday? I don't want to keep repeating myself.

And Slicey needs to post.

[Sajin]

@Zwett- You thought Kreriov was town day 1 and now throw out bussing here? What happened to make your opinion change so drastically?

@Krer- I already said all I will say on the matter.

However we have a partial claim, so we need to see where this leads.

unvote; vote: Xreckoner

[Sajin]

@xReckoner- who did you target and with what?

[Sajin]

Reckoner claimed a named role. So far no one has been named, just described/titled. Kreriov, do you have a name?

@Furry- Why are you curious about what I was going to say? Also, could you respond to the post I asked you about? Thanks.

@Krer- Why do you want a nl? Could you explain that? I think its quite obvious we should lynch one of you.

[Sajin]

I really do not see why we are not lynching one of these claims already. They CC each other. The fact they both don't want to lynch out of themselves is quite telling. They should both be screaming to lynch one another and they are not.

Starbuck which one are you scum with? Why are you trying to detract from the 1v1 we have?

Furry, please don't ignore my last question asked of you.

[Sajin]

/WTB Mod or backup mod and votecount.

[Sajin]

Mac why do you think your town by this again? That is a ghost vote not a double vote. Which is a perfectly tenable scum role.

I seem to remember you having this power in a certain large theme


And I hope we did not lynch a cop.

[Sajin]

Furry- a neutral party in WoT which this game is based on had this exact same power. While I see it MUCH more likely town I would be extremely hesitant to confirm him town over it. Especially when they claim themselves, this will confirm me town.

[Sajin]

@Kdub- I think it is completely true that I had a low amount of reason for when I first voted reckoner. But after more information came to light my confidence grew. Not to mention I completely understood kreriov's unconfidence as I had just finished playing a game where he had some important information and misused it causing him and another town power role to be put into a false 1v1 which ended up causing 2 MLes. So given that information I understood why he wanted to lynch someone else. But reckoner claimed a named role, no one else has. My confidence grew in my vote and just because I had a weaker reason for first voting does not mean that by the end of the day I had excellent reason. Not to mention there was zero reason why reckoner should of been agreeing with kreriov's plan. That and a named role- I was fairly confident in my vote by the end.

If you thought my vote was weak and I was using bad logic to push a lynch why did you not bring this up yesterday? You know, before we lynched scum.


@Zwett- While there are things as scum double voters, to put them in a mini is quite difficult to balance. My problem is that I have seen a ghost vote (and the mod in sign ups referred to this game being based on WoT mechanics) and not a double vote. I would consider a double voter to be likely town in a small game such as this given that I am fairly sure flavor is indicating we have 3 scum. Mauled sounds like chewbacca. Disagree?

@Mcavity- Can you show you have a double vote today? Please. It would ease my mind a lot.


Could someone tell me why zwet is obv town? I saw a few people giving one liners that say zwet is obv town. I have lost too many mafia games because the majority of us assumed someone is proved town by certain events.

[Sajin]

I agree that mauled sounds like Chewbacca.

I meant about the double voter. Do you disagree with that?


@Mcavity- You proved you could shadow vote not double. Its still possible for you to be able to double vote. All I am asking is that you show it. ok?

[Sajin]

Ok, can you use it to hammer while your normal vote is already on whoever we lynch today? I just want to see a double vote.

Flavor wise it makes a ton of sense for Luke Skywalker to have a ghost vote in my opinion. So I want to make sure that I see a double vote (even if it is not in the vote count, I just want you voting the same person with your actual vote) and not a ghost vote. Do you see why I am asking this now?

[Sajin]

I pointed out the largest differences between the two of them. True I did not post an evidence list about why I was fairly certain of my choice, but that is because I wanted to see where everyone stood first. It is easier to catch other scum that way but no one ended up supporting the other side strongly.

When you get a 1v1 like that I find it useful to see who stays off the lynch while talking about. The entire day of yesterday you were leaning reckoner leaning reckoner leaning reckoner...but you never voted. Why is that?

Also what are your feelings on starbuck? What are your feelings on Zwett?

[Sajin]

I pointed out the largest differences between the two of them.

Please show me where you did this.

I did in my very last post addressed to you as well as what Mcavity brought up just before. I pointed out several things with leading questions to both Reck and Krer.

@Zwett- Why would having a double vote make Mcavity less likely town in your eyes?

[Sajin]

I pointed out the largest differences between the two of them.

Please show me where you did this.

I did in my very last post addressed to you as well as what Mcavity brought up just before. I pointed out several things with leading questions to both Reck and Krer.

I thought it was implied that I wanted you to show me where you pointed out the main differences between them

before

we lynched Reckoner. Doing it after they are both dead doesn't really help, does it?

Mod: my vote is on Sajin

I posted before the lynch, most of those referenced posts were before the lynch. Did you even read the referenced posts?


You on the other hand did not comment much on krer/reck and you are not commenting on starbuck/Furry now. Your fencesitting here.

You have Furry who attacked you yesterday and Starbuck who ignored and voted elsewhere on the 1v1. Why would you ignore them?

@Slicey- I think that statement is odd too. Particularly because he stayed off the lynch. It sounds like starbuck was leaving his options open in case the votes starting turning favorable to him so he could save a partner.

On the other hand I dislike how furry has dodged my question.

In any case, I am not voting yet because 1) I want Kdub's opinion and 2) I want Mcavitylock to prove his ability and that takes 2 vote slots. and 3) No quick hammers. We have a lot of days left.

[Sajin]

@Kdub- You quoted it already. That question pointed out a large contradiction. Agreed? I was waiting on answers to a few of the other questions for more comments but the day ended before they were all answered. So I posted some more thoughts after the lynch. But I still though reckoner was more likely scum. I am far more likely to believe the first person to claim. Scum do not usually want to come forward like that especially not one so tenative as kreriov was. Do I need to go back and point out my town read on kreriov day 1? I would of been stronger in my accusations but the wanting to nl upon both parties threw me for a loop so yes, my posts were not as strong as they could of been. Yes it made me doubt and that is the reason for some of those posts you quoted. That was my thought process about it anyways. Care to explain yours now?

Your post does not answer the question/concern I asked of you btw.



@Starbuck. Sorry,

there are no girls on the int..

..I will pay better attention.

Do you really think a one shot SK could exist? I think that sounds very farfetched. Care to link me to such a game?

@Mcavity-I do not do lists. If you see me post a list of town to non town I am scum. I still suspect you until you show a double vote. Btw why are you clearing zwett from your pairings? Is this based on your read of zwett's play or solely on what reckoner said?

[Sajin]

@Kdub- Still waiting on my question. Why is it convienient? Am I not allowed to criticize your contribution which was very ambiguous at first? I am answering your questions, and ask you a question and you don't answer and keep asking questions of me. Explain if you think you contributed to the discussion that day more so than you think I did. If you think you had made a decision or were facilitating discussion then why did you not try to convince others of it? All of your posts that day were generic fence sitting besides the ones where you criticized kreriovs claim the moment he claimed. Disagree?

@Mcavity- Your "I am only scum if its with zwet theory" holds true if you have a double vote. So sure I agree with the logic.

@Zwet- Don't use my ideas randomly. Meh. Did you ever say he could have a shadow vote before I did?

[Sajin]

Its frustrating because now I have to debate Macavitylock about whether he is scum partners with you or if he is confirmed town. You did not allow him to prove his claimed ability.

[Sajin]

I am still waiting for a link to a 1 shot SK game.

[Sajin]

That works for me, thanks Macavity.

[Sajin]

Vote: MacavityLock

Thanks, Zwet.

[Sajin]

Macavity- I force lynched you with half the votes required.

Oh and...


Rawwwwwwwwwwwwrrrrrr!

[Sajin]

You are Chewbacca, Rebel Wookie

You are most definitely not a member of Squad 19. You are, in fact, a Wookie who has infiltrated the Death Star to save Princess Leia. Unfortunately, you got caught up in all this "find the traitors" nonsense...oh well...it's not like you've never killed anyone before...


Abilities:
Chaos in the Cell Block: Once during the game, you and your scum partners may opt not to use any abilities that night. During the next day, whenever a non-scum player reaches half the votes needed to lynch, that player is killed instantly, ending the day.




So by force lynching the double voter, we kill someone next twilight phase forcing a no lynch the following day.

[Sajin]

Also, should have stuck with my Sajin-scum instincts from Day 1.

Played the cards I was dealt. Force lynch powers on scum are extremely strong however it was essentially the only useful thing we used. Town had 4 directed kills (1 vig, 3 lynches, one of which was cop directed).

I was laughing that the day 1 talks were about if I was scum or not. Next game we do this again regardless of alignment, ok?

Alternatively, all the town power roles being exposed by day 2 played into our hands. Either a unexposed double voter or the jailkeeper would of very much screwed us over.

Reckoner was a day roleblocker...but failed to realize this until twilight 1. (Where we actually blocked kreriov, go figure)

Zwet was a godfather (I think he was still trackable and only investigation immune? Have to ask him)

And I, who was making the factional kills, had the force lynch.


@Kdub- I was quick hammering! See? Good job on seeing through that bus, that was annoying.


@Seraphim- I was the only one pressuring Zwett at all. I am surprised how everyone just wrote him off. Had I received more pressure I would of had Zwett hammer me and try to coast to endgame.

To balance out the Force lynch Seraphim, the Force lyncher should lose his vote the following day. This make its use for endgamming lesser while still maintaining the chaotic effect.

[Sajin]

Mac- In a vacuum, I completely agree confirming your double vote was the right play. But imagine if I force lynched someone that was not you. I would of been in trouble as I essentially would of claimed mafia already.

[Sajin]

Because he was appearing fairly protown and was not obviously connected to the scum team.

Kreriov was giving off huge PR tells and I asked the team to have him roleblocked. Which was a good thing evidently (he targeted me, bullet dodged!)