Newbie 839 - Game over

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Raskol are you going to whine at me again when I find scum using my terrible, evil numeric strategy again?

V/LA (Camping) through late Sunday and possibly even Monday.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Raskol are you going to whine at me again when I find scum using my terrible, evil numeric strategy again?

V/LA (Camping) through late Sunday and possibly even Monday.

You picked three targets, and one of them was scum. Let me know when it does better than chance.

(So, in other words, yeah I probably will)

More importantly it cleared four players for me and all were town, now that's a useful trait. Clear enough townies and it doesn't matter in what order you lynch everyone else in.

Also, I gave you people two days and you couldn't even find a way to get this game out of the RVS, for shame.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

More importantly it cleared four players for me and all were town, now that's a useful trait. Clear enough townies and it doesn't matter in what order you lynch everyone else in.

If you feel your method works, go ahead and use it. I myself haven't seen enough evidence that it works well enough to trust---especially since knowing your metrics makes it so easy for scum to play in a way that puts them in your 'cleared' zone.

Considering the conditions I placed upon some of my reasons it's unlikely they can easily be gamed and I doubt anyone is cracking my formula especially since it's since been updated with even more data.

Also, I gave you people two days and you couldn't even find a way to get this game out of the RVS, for shame.

So it's everyone else's responsibility to get us out of the RVS? That's an strange way of looking at things, don't you think? Especially for an IC?

I guess there is a bit of ambient sarcasm in my post that would be hard to pick up on, the dislike for the RVS and the hope we'd be beyond it was sincere however.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

People shouldn't sign up for games that they aren't willing to play.

What's that supposed to mean?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

It wasn't directed at you, but it means that we need more people actually posting.

I didn't think it was, just that we just had a holiday weekend which often slows things down and the newer players might not have known that they should declare a V/LA if they were. Furthermore, if you're legitimately annoyed then you shouldn't be passing the buck, especially since as an SE it's partially your responsibility to keep the game moving.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

IC, what is done in cases like this? Ask questions?

Sure that'd be a common route to pursue.

Just vote, or better yet, convince Debonair Danny DiPietro to vote. For that matter,

unvote, vote: Debonair Danny DiPietro

for holding us up.

So let me get this straight you find nothing else warranting a serious vote; so you vote for me for not voting when I don't find there to be a serious reason to vote either. Would me casting a random vote really move the game along in any serious fashion?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Why haven't you voted yet DDD?

The two big ones that I can think of are as an example of my "abnormal behavior - unlikely to be scum" lesson that Raskol hates. And because I simply don't see a reason to vote right now.

Let me turn that around on you, what would my voting right now, given that I don't see anything warranting a vote, actually achieve?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Okay, we need to calm down, stop accusing people, and actually catch some scum. That is the reason why DDD isn't voting. He was sitting back and waiting for somebody to do something stupid.

Yes, maybe if we stop pressuring people and just ask nicely people will admit to being scum, that makes sense.

I don't see any reason why he wouldn't be scum. Asking the power roles to claim so him and his buddy know who to knock out in the night and masking it as an attept to get discussion started. Of course, he could just be mad at the lack of activity and is just trying to act wacko. At any rate,

unvote

Are you seriously suggesting that Raskol was seriously suggesting that any power roles claim?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

DDD is being unusually quiet for someone who is supposed to be our role model for proper gaming techniques, maybe he is scum and wants us to have a good chance?

Quiet? I'm pretty sure I've got as many posts as many posts as anyone who isn't Raskol.

And besides me having I have no idea why Maemuki is presuming to speak for me, I don't go easy on anyone in any role.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

im sorry but the way you play baffles me and i cant play like i want to and nor can i hide the fact that i have very poor playing skills i dont know most "official" terms to mafia and RVS baffled me. random voting is a strategy to me not an official stage of the game.

I have nothing else to say as this game is so slow that i have gotten bored with it. i will try playing one more time on this forum and if its the same i will find another place to play.

You do realize you're not dead yet, yes?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

---Why did you random vote last game but not this one?

I hate to play any two games the same way so even if it's something small like not voting in the RVS I always try to do something different.

---What would you think of lynching today based on a random roll among the 4 players who have the lowest in-thread postcount two days before deadline?

I think we have ten days (at least?) till deadline and that there's no reason to panic and do anything rash just yet. In fact there appears to finally be good information from at least some players to evaluate so no need to do something nonsensical like vote randomly.

---Who are your top targets for scum at this point, and why? (I realize there's not much info yet).

Well I'd like Diakron to say something again after his rather defeatist seeming post, but before that I didn't much care for what I was seeing. My top suspect is probably one of the undercontributers, but I haven't yet really gone and parsed them apart yet.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

---What would you think of lynching today based on a random roll among the 4 players who have the lowest in-thread postcount two days before deadline?

I think we have ten days (at least?) till deadline and that there's no reason to panic and do anything rash just yet. In fact there appears to finally be good information from at least some players to evaluate so no need to do something nonsensical like vote randomly.

I was thinking of it more as an incentive to activity, actually.

We could just shamelessly bandwagon them until they say something instead, how does that sound?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Mod:

(If you're there. It's me, Margaret) Please prod Iba---magic and anyone else who needs prodding.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

We could just shamelessly bandwagon them until they say something instead, how does that sound?

Better than nothing. Why don't you start us off?

Sure thing.

Vote: Tehstefan

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

We could just shamelessly bandwagon them until they say something instead, how does that sound?

Better than nothing. Why don't you start us off?

Sure thing.

Vote: Tehstefan

What is your reason for voting for him?

Did you not read the quotes right above the vote?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Someone else get on this wagon. We have cake.

Lots and lots of cake.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I have nothing else to say as this game is so slow that i have gotten bored with it. i will try playing one more time on this forum and if its the same i will find another place to play.

what would you prefer?
alot of one-liners?

Skitzo, please stop posting one-liners. Or two-liners. Just. Post. Something. Kthx.

isnt that what diakron wants maemuki?
if we dont really go into very much detail then it will be faster?
right now my top suspect would definitely be diakron seeing as he wanted all the power roles to claim

As a matter of fact, it wasn't Diakron that asked the power roles to claim. It was Raskol.

I would have gotten away with it too, if not for you meddling kids.

Don't forget about their dog.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Time for me to make up a case on Tehstefan to solicit more votes.

ISO #0: Random Votes for Bub, my experience suggests that even in the RVS that scum vote for townies. I’ve got a town read on Bub so far so that’s a strike against Tehstefan. (This point also applies to Maemuki, Raskol, and Del)

ISO #3 and ISO #4: Shows no interest in scum hunting, phrases everything as a question to avoid taking a firm stance.

ISO #5: FoS is a slight scum tell and since he directs it against another town read of mine that’s another strike. He then piggybacks off of the logic of someone else to cast a vote on someone else.

Add all that to his dreadful lack of contribution and he’s the best person to vote for.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

EBWOP: If your reasoning that I'm a lurker, I'm sorry to say there is indeed far worse lurkers than me. Why has no one commented on Ibrahmagic's lack of posts, while commenting on mine? Seems like better reasoning could be used here than is.

See, if you were really concerned about that you would've moved your vote to wagon him here, but you're not even attempting to scum hunt in that respect you've just parked your vote on the person most likely to be lynched besides you.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Just so you know I don't consider sitting back and waiting for scum to surrender a viable strategy, so get busy. We've got less than a week to make a decision now.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Maemuki, why Bub and not Del?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

He was the hammer, was he not?

Any reason the hammer is that much more interesting or suspicious then the out of nowhere L-1 vote that carried no reasons with it?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Vote: Del

I need answers for your actions Del.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Skitzo hasn't posted in 7 days, or so.

Mod: Could you please prod or replace skitzo?

You don't think the five days since Del has posted is an equally bad sign and also warranting a prod? Maybe the reason you omitted him is because he's your scum partner and your conversation over night has you thinking he's more active then he is.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

So skitzo doesn't even deserve a prod anymore? He should just be replaced?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

The bottom part of your list is wrong other than me, one or both of the SEs are scum.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

The bottom part of your list is wrong other than me, one or both of the SEs are scum.

Why do you think so?

The night kill. Newb scum usually guns down an SE or IC at very least you'd expect some power role hunting and as far as I could tell there were no hints from Ibr that he had a power role.

So his kill was likely for one of two reasons or a combination thereof, one, the classic zero information kill we gain basically no knowledge from last night's death. That's a move of a player with some experience and two, it killed a lurker which suggests the player has a vested interest in keeping the game alive. Since this group of newbs other than Bub have shown basically no interest in pushing forward it's much more likely that it was undertaken by one of the SEs who have an interest in the game continuing.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Though, DDD, while I do agree with the logic, how is it in a mafian's best interest to keep the game moving?

It's not especially beneficial which is why it's that much more likely to come from someone who is invested in the game and the community.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Though, DDD, while I do agree with the logic, how is it in a mafian's best interest to keep the game moving?

It's not especially beneficial which is why it's that much more likely to come from someone who is invested in the game and the community.

That seems pretty weak to me. You're assuming that keeping the game going had something to do with the NK, when there could have been any number of reasons for it.

No, I said it was one of two possible/partial reasons along with it being a zero information kill.

Ibr wasn't a threat to anyone, he wasn't viewed as pro-town, there's nothing to suggest he was a power role. The two reasons I noted are the only two logical reasons for an Ibr kill and they point to (one of) the SEs having a hand in the affair.

If you've got another possible reason for the kill feel free to share, but I'm not seeing it.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

First of all, just because you don't think there's anything to suggest he's a power role doesn't mean no one could have thought he was. I happen to agree that he didn't seem like a PR, but I'm not going to assume that everyone shares my read.

He had three posts, one of them was his RVS post, another was a single question directed to me. If you're going to tell me that it's possible that someone found a PR tell in his posts then I'm going to say that you've passed from improbability to impossibility just so you can disagree with me.

Second, insofar as Ibrahim did have stances on the game, and he did, we can't simply assume that he wasn't perceived as a threat by anyone. He asked you a question which might have been out of suspicion, and he expressed a clear desire to see Diakron dead---actually, Diakron seemed interested in killing Ibrahim during the day, as well. So there are two people who might potentially have seen him as a threat. Bub Bidderskins also wanted to lynch him, so add him to the list of people who might have wanted him dead.

Diakron was replaced either before night began officially or overnight by CSL, so Diakron couldn't have had any say in the NK. And why would scum Bub kill Ibrahim, you don't generally kill those you think you can secure a mislynch of.

In addition to all the plausible little stories one can think of, there's also the simple possibility that someone killed him for a reason that wouldn't make any sense to me at all. We have a lot of first timers in this game and it wouldn't surprise me at all to see them NK someone for reasons we don't usually see. That's part of why I think this case would be weak even if if your reason really were the only 'logical' one---it's not at all unlikely that the kill was a suboptimal newb play.

Don't give me that Raskol, at this level this isn't a tricky game. There are a few basic reasons you kill someone in this game and occasionally a few WIFOM counters to those. Most of those don't fit so the reasons I supplied are likely correct. When you eliminate the impossible, whatever left, however improbable must be the truth.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@Mod: Another round of prods and replacements... plz.

Well then Raskol, since you've so enjoyed tearing down my theories who do you believe to be scum and why?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Might as well vote with the theory I was just pushing, Mae shows as more likely to be scum than Raskol despite him arguing with me.

Unvote; Vote: Maemuki

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Well, I'm saying this. Diakron did not play well. His play is making me look really bad.

Where is a votecount when you need one?

Trying my best to get the others...

Why don't you start trying to make yourself look better, then?

I guess that seems like too much work.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Well, um . This is kind of weird. Del sent me a PM talking about the game. Is it legal to discuss the PM?

No, PM the mod about what exactly was said and she'll work out what needs to happen.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I really wish I could justify lynching CSL for sheer uselessness, but I can't.

Mod: It's been over a week since skitzo has posted last, prod/replace kthx

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Diakron is scum, lynch him.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Okay, if it's going to take someone doing something stupid to get discussion going, that person might as well be me.

ALL POWER ROLES CLAIM NOW

Also, what do you guys think of a no lynch today?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I would put someone at L-1, but alas, there's no one with enough votes.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

*insert blatant contradiction here*

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Okay, if it's going to take someone doing something stupid to get discussion going, that person might as well be me.

ALL POWER ROLES CLAIM NOW

Also, what do you guys think of a no lynch today?

OMG obvscum

unvote

Vote: Raskol

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Okay, if it's going to take someone doing something stupid to get discussion going, that person might as well be me.

ALL POWER ROLES CLAIM NOW

Also, what do you guys think of a no lynch today?

OMG obvscum

unvote

Vote: Raskol

I'm liking this wagon.

vote: Raskol

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

vote: Raskol

For rolefishing, suggesting no lynch, saying he wished he could put someone at L-1, voting himself, contradicting himself, and for spamming a dead thread

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

That's L-1. Someone get in here and hammer him before he can claim!

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Maemuki is still active on this site without posting in this game, ya'll should help me bandwagon her to get her to post again.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Theory: He killed Ibramagic then used his logic to blame it on one of the SE.

Keep in mind that just because he's the one who suggested the theory doesn't make him imune to it. As a matter of fact, it applies to him even more than the SE's.

WIFOM but truth: If I had killed Ibramagic I certainly wouldn't have come out and told you why I did it and then try to pin it on someone else using logic that could implicate myself as well. I would've ignored the night kill as usual and hope it helped crush the town into submission as it frankly helped to do.

I want everyone in their next post to say whether they think Raskol or Maemuki is scummier and why. I don't care if you think they're both scum, I don't care if you think they're both town, which one is scummier and why.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Well unless something surprising happens it looks like this day might end up coming down to Bub's decision as I'd expect CSL and Maemuki to crossvote putting them both at L-1 with Bub the only one not voting.

Since you're the one likely in the swing role, Bub, how about you take the lead and give us your thoughts in regards to which way you're leaning and why.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I think we have to assume we're still under deadline with only possible extensions for forum down time. That means Maemuki and CSL need to vote, probably for each other and Bub needs to declare who he intends to hammer if that's the case so we can get a claim to evaluate before deadline.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

How much longer than the couple of hours I am aware of was the forum down?

For me I'd say down time was roughly midnight to eleven AM-ish so rounding up about twelve hours, plus there might be more when they actually move servers.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I think we have to assume we're still under deadline with only possible extensions for forum down time. That means Maemuki and CSL need to vote, probably for each other and Bub needs to declare who he intends to hammer if that's the case so we can get a claim to evaluate before deadline.

You seem somewhat indifferent to the lynch choice today.

Why leave it in bub's hands without trying to convince him your target is the better one?

The facts are on the board, if I need to reiterate them I will, but I've stated my piece on the matter. I'd rather not leave it up to Bub, but it's the only way I see things going as CSL and Maemuki seem to have no interest in finding other targets and I expect will cross-vote out of self-preservation.

Of course you could help make it so that fact is irrelevant by joining me in voting for Maemuki because I have no interest in a CSL lynch, he may be useless as a bag of wet sod but I see little reason to suggest he's likely scum and not just an idiot.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

So is he dead? It looks like four to me, but that recent vote unvote sequence has me unsure.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Might as well I guess since it at least appears he's confessing.

Unvote; Vote: CSL

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

After having it confirmed that CSL is in fact cum, I'm now taking Danny's willingness to leave the lynch decision to Bub as a town tell. I doubt he'd take such a stance towards his scumpartner, especially when he's on record as not supporting his lynch. Feeres' help in pushing the wagon on CSL has me thinking town for him as well. I'll be willing to bet quite a bit that we have our remaining scum between Bub and Mae. Since we have a mislynch to spend, things look pretty good from where I'm standing.

Vote: Maemuki

as most likely to be CSL's partner. I posted a bit of my thoughts on that yesterday in twilight, but I'll probably have more to say later if I have to convince people.

You don't have to convince me, Maemuki is top of my list; but I want the suspicious people to show up so I can reaffirm or correct my reads.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Feeres and Bub, let's assume for a second that Maemuki isn't scum. Crazy talk, I know, but if that's the case then who is scum?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Actually, both of you hold off on answering that question.

Raskol, does that information help us more than it benefits hypothetical non-Maemuki scum in planning who to kill? Because I figured it couldn't hurt to have more information in the worst case scenario, but I'm not sure that information isn't more helpful to scum in that same situation. Also...

Vote: Maemuki

Quick hammers will be treated with extreme prejudice tomorrow.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Maemuki is still avoiding this game. I wouldn't mind someone hammering her way before the deadline (but not before the questions are answered).

You ruined my breaking news post because I was going to point this out as well. I see no reason why a town player avoids this game with such obvious pressure on them at least attempting to give us their best suspicions to work off of. If she's scum she sees her lynch is basically inevitable so why put any work into the game.

I'm giving my green light on a hammer as well.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Interesting, I'm not sure it helps my contingency reads at all since they said the both suspect me.

Right now, I'm standing behind my theory from day two and if it's not Maemuki, it's likely Raskol.

Hopefully that was all irrelevant, hammer is go for either Bub or Feeres.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Dead people don't talk.

This, also I sent a PM to VRK so hopefully he'll drop in sometime reasonably soon since stark is V/LA and close this day out for us.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Very nice, I needed another town win to break the nasty losing streak I was on.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

And the combination of Raskol and DDD is now effectively 2 for 2, fear us scum.