Newbie 843 (Game Over)

[Meji Fan]

/confirm

[Meji Fan]

Yay, first!

Vote manho

Sleep is for weak!

[Meji Fan]

Oh my, and why are you the expert on scum? Suspicious, suspicious

Unvote, Vote Soyasushi

[Meji Fan]

But certain other people do things at night to! No, its only the good townies, the fine upstanding backbone of society who can afford the luxury of sleep

L-3 is hardly a point of concern. At L-2 theres always the faint possibility of some kind of quickvote or such, but at L-3 there is no real such possibility

Admittedly mine isnt valid, but still

Unvote, vote tubby

So I can spread the OMGUS around

[Meji Fan]

Its a weekend

Weekends are the time of nothingness

[Meji Fan]

Australia?

[Meji Fan]

Whoa, have you never heard of WIFOM? Scum doesnt want to do stuff scum would do, but then since scum wouldnt want to do it, people wont expect it of scum, so scum should do it, round and round the merry go round goes etc

But anyway, the one line replies and whimsy are just the starting point, youll then notice in most games they gradually build up into proper cases, day 1 is in fact quite good for catching scum before they get their groove going (admittedly anecdotal, but Ive generally seen more luck on day 1 than any other day . . . Im not going to do a comphrehensive analysis of 800 odd newbie games to check)

If I was scum I would do the exact same thing I would do if I was town, find and vote for the person I found most interesting/suspicious

Unvote Tubby

Now, the person who interests me most would be Tubby . . . mainly because his complaints about lack of discussion, without well, actually discussing. Two of his three posts are pretty much 'need more posts!', and the other one is his random vote

Kinda makes one think of Active Lurking, how to look like your involved without well, being to involved

Vote Tubby

Soyasushi - lots of posts, but thats early RVS silliness (I like early RVS silliness to), I cant say I find anything yet there

WrathofShadows - I could be suspicious there, lurking can be a scumtell, and WrathofShadows posted twice to discuss replacements in confirmations, however, it hasnt been nearly long enough by far to get that suspicious, the game started Sunday and its Monday morning

[Meji Fan]

Ill admit, your still not convincing me tubby, it doesnt feel very helpful. I am still thinking tubby here

As for yernab, I was okay with his whacky WIFOM scenario to stir up discussion (look, theres discussion). The game I was in that just finished the (in this instance town) IC started off with 'Okay everyone, make a case on me' (which I found very suspicious and am dubious about . . . but basically, Im not quite going to say weird quasi icebreaker gimmicks to get things rolling are a true scumtell)

I like Soyasushi's posts, seem pretty pro town scum hunting, are smilies really a scumtell though?

WrathofShadows - Its not a huge deal to me, but it is something I noted upon reading yernab's comments

And now we definitely need to hear something from david and Zach

[Meji Fan]

Okay, this is the first time Ive seen smilies be the topic of discussion. Looking back through (and at the aforementioned smilies), I note that yernab's 'alright, alright, I back down' post came after 3 posts. Mine, manho's and tubby's. Right after tubby in fact

My post and manho's werent particularly critical of his approach at all, tubby's was (and tubby voted for him), this was only the 2nd vote on him (and I cant credit Soyasuhi's 'post already' vote as that scary), so, it does seem he abandoned his idea pretty quick

And most importantly, hiya crazypianist1116, nice to see you again

[Meji Fan]

You have to decide that for yourself

Theory A - it provides a good way to share information and think about things
Theory B - it provides targets for scum

[Meji Fan]

Er, david, you DO realize you have yet to make a single game related contribution? And more questions

FoS david

Also, answer your own question first

[Meji Fan]

What did manho do out of curiousity?

[Meji Fan]

David - Im not really sure which I prefer, everything is good

Soyasushi - Ive seen very very defensive townies, noone likes being lynched. Also, as town, you should try very hard not to be lynched, after all, you are certain you are not scum, so anyone who isnt you is thus a better lynch (more or less) - that said, the best way to defend yourself really is to find someone who is a better choice. If all your doing is saying 'Im not scum! Smilies are not important!' etc, it doesnt provide a better option. Find who is scum and explain why they are scum

Also, that way if you got lynched anyway, at least you provided hopefully useful insights that after the flip are revealed to be not lies

If you can keep notes on the game, its a cool thing, but Im to lazy

[Meji Fan]

The deadline is not in 3 days! There are 3 week deadlines. The game started on the 20th

[Meji Fan]

WrathofShadows: Voting causes reactions. Reactions reveal scum. Also, even if you arent confident someone is scum, you can feel someone is scummier than someone else

[Meji Fan]

actually,

@mod, can we get a deadline update?

[Meji Fan]

EtherealCookie - what makes WrathofShadows more interesting than tubby? You seemed to have more thoughts on the tubby topic

[Meji Fan]

That makes sense then. I don't believe this was a tell of any sort on manho's part now

On Cookie/Wrathofshadows

WrathofShadows definitely does have that OMGUS effect to it, as it seems to boil down to 'Your intelligent, but you like me best?' which is strongly not so helpful

more later

[Meji Fan]

Hmmm. manho seems to be pretty willing to change votes and vote for the new popular thing . . . see tubby and now Wrath

Interesting

unvote, vote manho

[Meji Fan]

Can you elaborate then on your case on Wrath? Im not wholly following it

And since Wrath hasnt replied to you since your vote, doesnt seem he is seeing it either

[Meji Fan]

Okay, I went back and looked over this whole crazy scumlist battle and the Wrath/Cookie war

Zach / Cookie - do note on the scumlist topic

tubby - good, but near the end of the day
manho - bit anti-town
myself - you have to decide yourself
soyasuhi - doesnt seem to have an opinion (was asking)

Zach + Cookie - like scumlists

Hardly unaminous support, I hardly find the opinion that scumlists are less helpful to be a great scumtell

That said - lets look at Wrath's posts

55 - nothing, says net down
59 - says the discussion could be interesting, but doesnt share any of these interesting insights. Also assures me he knows of the scum lurk bit (which I said I didnt suspect him of really)
65 - Assures me AGAIN (ookay. Im sure my 61 wasnt that accusatory), answers soyasushi's question, says starting discussion is pro-town
66 - cant post much
82 - FoS Manho . . for no discerned reason to gather response? (I question in 83)
92 - not doing anything suspicious makes you suspicious? Right, a version of the too-townie fallacy almost? Also doesnt like scumlists
95 - more on not liking scumlists
103 - votes only when concrete. Arguing with Zach on scumlists and Zach saying he isnt scum hunting really

And then in 131 the Cookie go round begins!
And his main focus in 131 is 'Cookie is smart and charismatic, and has other options, so why me?'

Im not to terribly impressed . . . especially with his, uh, not one shred of suspicion generated toward ANYONE in the previous 6 posts (not counting the net down one), the FoS Manho doesnt count, since didnt give any reason for suspicion (and blatantly said, in the post where he FoSed, just to see reaction)

I am beginning to think yeah, we have our scum here

We need a votecount <b>Mod, votecount please</b>

But Im happy with Wrath now, just dont want to accidentally hammer before the 'good at end of day' scumlists appear

[Meji Fan]

[EBWOP b]Mod, votecount please[/b]

[Meji Fan]

Oh for the love of tags,

Mod, votecount please

[Meji Fan]

I to am interested in what the new arrival has to say about the situation, with or without smilies

[Meji Fan]

Ah, manho, thanks for reminding me Im not so interested in you now

unvote, vote wrath

[Meji Fan]

Note, thats L-1

[Meji Fan]

Sure, lets see. Why vote for Wrath?

First off - he hasnt posted since Oct 3, and suddenly shows up to post right when he goes to L-1?

His Cookie vote is not very solid, (11th Wrath post). Cookie is 'intelligent and can sway any argument' and that Cookie had two other cases that apparently were good. The cases also werent good enough for Wrath, since he voted Cookie

He in his 12th apparently it was bad of Cookie for focusing on him, manho, and tubby. Yet in the SAME post he notes he has 3 ideas for scum also. How is that a case on Cookie?

13+14 - not so interesting. But definitely not convincing me Cookie is better


15 - Ah, Im bad now that I voted for him? (And he finally posts again when he is at L-1). Why not post when I made my case earlier on him when I said I was going to vote

The day is nearing a close and Im deciding Wrath is looking like the best bet

My earlier case still seems valid, but this is a fresh look at it

[Meji Fan]

Whats VI?

[Meji Fan]

Ive never really seen much info gained in twilight, but, how do you suggest we use it then?

[Meji Fan]

Ive sent the mod a PM, and if that fails will send the Newbie game listmod a PM

This is silly weve gone an entire page and 3 days since the lynch

[Meji Fan]

PMed the listmod

[Meji Fan]

Okay, Im definitely looking at bfl, first one to get to speculating on the doc is suspicious, not entirely unlike 'congratulating the doctor'

[Meji Fan]

Okay, Ive done a reread on bfl . . . and he, like yernab, contributed almost nothing. Especially nothing on the whole Wrath case despite having at least a few people spefically ask him his thoughts. He just said he didnt see anything scummy, and asked what the case on Wrath was. And never replied after I presented my case

bfl is my new favorite person

Vote: bfl

[Meji Fan]

tubby - what links do you have showing between bfl and cookie then?

[Meji Fan]

When doing lots of quotes like that, please use the quote function where it can say stuff like 'Meji wrote' etc (you didnt attribute the stuff I said to me in the above), like in Zach's post above yours

Unfortunately I don't use quotes, so I can't actually tell you how to do that . . . but its harder to follow the not so attributed quotes

And my actual commentary will come later today

[Meji Fan]

Sorry . . . weekend hasnt been good for me

Now, the most relevant and exciting thing bantered about I think is from EC

"Oh, and I talked you out of lynching my buddy? How? That makes no sense. If you thought my buddy was scum, wouldn't you lynch him first? If he showed scum, then you'd lynch me. However, by lynching me first, it doesn't prove anything if BJL is scum or not. I could just be defending him because I see you have a terrible case against him. You're just looking for an opportunity to get rid of me, Tubby. It's obvious, now."

That is pure WIFOMy goodness. If bjl is scum, then EC is scum . . . right. The converse must also mean that if bjl isnt scum then EC must not be scum? bjl has done nothing, absolutely nothing to seem town, so, the only way to really think bjl is town is to know bjl is town

I dont disagree that tubby is interesting, and hey, I could see a point for 'tubby is more scummy than bjl', but the conviction on bfl being town strikes me as suspicious, almost suspicious enough to change my vote, but then . . .

from bjl, "lol... what am I at? L-1? man... I've been sick since thursday and haven't been near a computer. I'm not going to defend myself other than say I'm a plain ol' townie. I don't have time for more right now. good luck."

Sickness can be true or not, and no problem with sickness. But 'lol, Im not going to do anything, Im a townie'

This is totally verging into appeal to emotion, contributes absolutely nothing, and doesnt even try to offer an alternative. I like my vote (and it has lol, bringing back the smilies?)

[Meji Fan]

Being useless is not entirely a scum tell, true

The doctor bit is definitely a scum tell

Furthermore, the quasi appeal to emotion and flippant response with the lol? Quite possibly a scum tell

[Meji Fan]

You just claimed?

[Meji Fan]

I dont trust myself to count votes

Mod, can we have a votecount? Also, yernab is still listed as a player rather than bjl

[Meji Fan]

As for 'vote bjl as he is being useless', not answering questions and such is scummy. He was doing that before he was sick. That (combined with yernab's weird play and most importantly the congratulating the doc) settled my vote

It was not just 'he's useless, vote him'

[Meji Fan]

You have anything specific you want to ask me then?

[Meji Fan]

bjl is flat out scum and should be todays lynch, Ive explained why

Im not as convinced with cookie, as bad as bjl is looking scum I think Cookie would have bussed . . . I cant think of any explanation for Cookie's vehemence on bjl _not_ being scum, especially as soyasushi noted, Cookie claimed, so he has no hidden evidence (or he is a bloody liar)

tubby/manho - I like manho, he seemed town, though his 'lets vote bjl today and then cookie tomorrow' is a bit of a suspicion along the setting up lynches lines. I see no reason you two are necessarily a scumpair though . . . everyone except bjl and cookie thinks bjl is scum, so, you two are not necessarily connected.

As for you, I thought you were pretty suspicious yesterday, and, while you did go after bjl, you pretty quickly switched away to EC, and I think bjl is the better choice - Im sure you would have been willing to bus bjl if cookie hadnt turned up

[Meji Fan]

Arent you now offering to do just the same thing you accused tubby of last time? Lynch someone you dont think is scum to get to the person you think is scum

Except tubby certainly didnt seem emphatic about wrath not being scum

And it was near deadline

FoS Cookie

[Meji Fan]

I would be hard pressed to believe that. EC has been quite enthused with A: the wrath wagon, and B: tubby . . . why would he investigate bjl?

[Meji Fan]

Admittedly, the above is pretty well unto WIFOM speculation

[Meji Fan]

The next recourse is to PM the list mod

[Meji Fan]

I PMed said listmod

Note: This is not the usual, this is the first Newbie game Ive been in where this has been a problem, please dont let this get in the way of enjoying mafiascum

[Meji Fan]

Listmod replied and is checking

[Meji Fan]

tubby, what normally happens if this happens?

[Meji Fan]

Only new mods have a backup

[Meji Fan]

Yay, game is back!

What classic scum tells did you think tubby was doing? And, anything tubby was doing, the yernab/bjl was doing more, especially on the doctor remark

[Meji Fan]

Mod - I am moving this weekend, I will try to be around, but spotty

Noted. Thanks.

[Meji Fan]

crazypianist did also seem to focus on tubby later, but crazy also seemed to like cookie to. I dont see any huge similarities. Actually, I dont have much read on crazy at all

I am pondering Kyiv's posts

[Meji Fan]

Mod, I request replacement

I am truly sorry everyone, the move was an epic disaster, I now finally have net back, but all the chaos and backlog from the move I can do nothing

[Meji Fan]

Hi all. Id like to apologize about flaking . . . . my move went disastrously and just couldnt keep up at all

[Meji Fan]

This also was my first time playing scum. I tried to do what I have normally tried to do lately . . . pick whoever strikes me as interesting and go after them. Didnt work so well (I kept getting picked out for being wishy washy before, so, that became 'thing I must try and avoid')