Perfectionist Mafia - Resultas

[Wickedestjr]

Hello everybody. Will post in about an hour.

[Wickedestjr]

One scum down, however many to go.

How do you know BC is scum? Is he your scumbuddy? How do you know that there are many scum? I don't know that we were told that.

Why so quick to jump on the bandwagon?

You pretty much claimed to be scum. Now people vote you, and you FoS them for it. Are you trying to discourage them from voting?


MME & Ethereal Cookie- Why didn't you give a reason for your votes

What!? Blood Covenent you bastard!

You voted me!

What do you care?

I wonder if anyone would be brave enough to hammer when the time comes...

You're actually planning on getting him lynched?

Err...I think that if Snow White saw the post we should all be able to see it :/

Anything else?

I have decided to:

unvote; vote: Snow White

because competing BWs are useful for town, IMO.

A second random vote? Shouldn't we be trying to get out of the RVS?

Vote: saberwolf

More questions:

Mufasa - Does it bother you that saberwolf votes you in every game he and you play together?
Sanjay - Are there any players you've gotten some town/scum reads off of? Who?
SolemnJ - What do you think of Mufasa so far?
nook - What do you think of the things that have happened so far in the game?
Santos - Do you like the wagon on BloodCovenent? Do you think it is helping?
AlmightyBob - What do you think of Snow White and saberwolf?
dramonic - Do you think the posts you have made have contributed to the game thus far? If not, what were the purposes of them?
MrSuave - Are you scum?

[Wickedestjr]

MME what do you think of the saberwolf votes? They are serious.

[Wickedestjr]

Somebody has to have the most boring question.

Now please answer.

[Wickedestjr]

One scum down, however many to go.

How do you know BC is scum? Is he your scumbuddy? How do you know that there are many scum? I don't know that we were told that.

Wickedestjr, were you joking here? "How do you know that there are many scum?" Really?

I feel like you are misrepresenting Lowell here. He didn't say there were many scum. To paraphrase him, he basically said that there was some number of scum.

Do you really think we need to be told specifically that there is some number of scum to act under that assumption?

If anything, Lowell could be accused of pretending not to have secret information. Your accusation is silly.

Hmm... You're right. That was wrong. I misread it as if it said
"One scum down, however, many to go."

@Wicked: Most of my posts have been fairly useless, but considering we're only four pages into the game I don't think it's any dramatic.

When were you planning to start getting serious?

Vote: Sanjay

Why?

I didn't like that Wickedestjr's post had a serious tone but yet had a kind of silly accusation.

Why is that? I don't really think there is anything wrong with it. And to what extent did you not like it?


Sanjay - Any reads so far?

[Wickedestjr]

Oh god, questioning my votes at the random voting stage! The horror!

Anything else you'd like to say about the game thus far?

[Wickedestjr]

Thanks for the opinions!

However, I'm curious. Why would Mufasa's third vote make him look a bit pro-town but not the fourth or fifth votes on the wagon?


@MME - Actually I was asking what you thought about the reasons that saberwolf was getting votes.

[Wickedestjr]

Wicked : Lame reason. Tell me what's wrong/scummy about having two random votes.

It shows that he doesn't care about getting out of the RVS. It may not be the best reason for a lynch, but I feel he definitely needs some pressure.

@wickedestjr: the question you asked mufasa is stupid if you've actually been reading the posts. I already explained this. This is the second time I've ever seen Mufasa. Our first game he hammered on day 2 with no explanation other than "it was inevitable". The move was so scummy that everyone immediately jumped on his BW day 3. I was the only one to fight for his right to stay, but when Mufasa chose not to co-operate, I quickly gave up and was the hammer vote. So in total I have voted two times for Mufasa ever, which technically still is every game we've played together, but it's been taken out of context to make it sound AtE.

First of all, the question was to see how he felt about having votes, so I don't see what's stupid about it. I admit, I should have made it a bit more relevent to this game, but I still think it is a question he should answer. Second of all, please respond to my vote.

[Wickedestjr]

Are you going to respond to my accusation?

[Wickedestjr]

Are you going to respond to my accusation?

Are you talking about the post where you say respond to my vote? Why should I have to respond to it? I only have two votes on me, and neither one of them has a real credible reason for being there, therefore, I do not feel concerned over them or feel the need to defend myself.

I'm talking about where you cast a second random vote. Why did you cast a second random vote? Do you think it helps?


MrSuave - If you are waiting for something to happen, then why not make something happen?

[Wickedestjr]

Unvote

For some reason I thought saber's vote for Snow White was random.

This part, I disagree with. I've seen far too many noobTown OMGUS their way to their own lynch. I don't think OMGUS is a reliable scumtell.

Yeah, but is Snow White a noob?

Which is it?
And for the record, infuriating =/= scum. If your case is based on things you do not like about saber, it won't cut much ice with me. If you have something to suggest he's scummy, that's a different matter, but being annoyed is not a good reason for a vote.

Why can't it be both? You can agree with a case and want to pressure somebody. Can't you?

My vote is staying because im infuriated.
Arrogance is scummy. I feel as though im being hunted and i dont expect that this early in the game from someone supposed to be town.

Also the way he placed his vote on me was scummy imho. Ill elaborate soon.

So it's not to pressure him?


Will finish catching up when I get the chance.

[Wickedestjr]

I have NEVER said "i have NEVER seen a RVS where one of the BW are scum" I said i have YET to see one. Do not twist my words Saber.

What is the difference? It is very reaching to attack Saber for twisting your words. Until you explain

Fos: Snow White

. That may be upgraded to a vote if there is nothing better to go off of.

Who's talking about lynching here? And why do you consider saber to be more worthy of pressure than, eg, snow white?

Sorry. I meant voting. I liked my vote on saber earlier because I misunderstood his vote for Snow White. I didn't see anything scummy from Snow White at the time.

So, you decided to explicitly tell us Mr. eeni-meen-minei-mo told you to vote for sanjay.

What's your reason for asking this question?

@wikedestjr: I could just as easily ask the same of you. it also seemed like you wanted to get out of RVS.

Yeah, but I was actually making an effort to get out, while it didn't seem to me like you were.

From the points that have been pointed out against SW, I will put my support behind this wagon.

How strong are the points to you?

1) Not a random vote
2) I am picking on a quiet random voter
3) I have a gut feeling he's the quiet scum of the group

Its a little suspicious seeing Snow White go after Lowell as well. Scum partners? Its possible, but purely speculation atm. I won't forget her vote on him earlier.

I'm pretty sure it is Lowell's meta to be like this, but why do you choose him out of all the quiet people?

[Wickedestjr]

-To you, is there a difference between RVS voting myself to get discussion going, or me self-voting when I am being pressured, and am close to a lynch (obviously self voting out of frustration).

I don't really see why you are asking this, but I believe there is a difference, because self-voting in RVS is more helpful, because it generates discussion. Self-voting when pressured doesn't help at all.

It was just how quick you were to mindlessly jump on the wagon. Not even questioning why I would do such a thing. You didn't even question me before voting, which somewhat surprised me. Out of the three of you, no one questioned me. I should have probably FoS'd MME, and EC, but... meh, it was a little late I guess.

I am not satisified with this explanation. First of all, delaying votes in the RVS to question something that happens in the RVS is pointless. Why would they need to question you?

I have only ever seen scum self vote once, where as I have seen town self vote two-three times. So how exactly did I claim scum?

Well, I thought your post meant, I'm scum, let's skip the RVS and vote me, and I thought that was how you were intending to get through the RVS. What message were you trying to get across with that post, and how were you actually planning to get through the RVS with it?

I would rather a player cast several (beyond two) random votes, than not vote at all.

...yes and why?

1. I'm going to side with Snow on this one. It feels as if you were trying to manipulate her words Saber.

I'm assuming you're explaining this after Snow White does. Am i right?

Yes you are, because you didn't take into account all of the other mafia games where scum have been RVS bandwagoned.

What?

Maybe I'm wrong. But if she's a pro, wouldn't she also know not to OMGUS, as either scum or Town?

Yes she wouldn't have done that if she was a pro. The only reason I'm questioning your statement about her being a newbtown is because:

1: She could be newbscum.

2: If she's experienced and did that, then I wouldn't want to let it slide.

nook, stfu; I'll post when I feel it helps the town.

And that will be by the end of the day.

Alright. That's perfectly fine.

Simply it means in my mind anyway

, one is concentrating hard on one individual without examining the rest. I find it anti town not to explore other players ideas and concentrating on one, sole individual to get them lynched.

I cant call it pro town.

I dislike the bolded parts.

The definition of "NEVER" imho is soemthing that is impossible to happen in any given space of time. It will NEVER happen.

"YET" being the word which leaves open the chance that yes, this event may happen, but i have not seen it occur to date.

You HAVE twisted my words.

Those definitions can't correctly be applied to this argument. You said you have never yet seen a game where it happened. Which means out of the games you have seen it has never happened. If you had said you have never seen a game where it happened, that means the same thing. The "yet" simply implies you will be looking at more games.

No. What i meant by this is i dont see town being so aggressive in the space of what was 4 pages, to seriously consider someone scum.

Being agressive early in the game is good. If everybody only attack strong scumtells, then the game wouldn't leave the RVS. You have to blow small things out of proportion, because there will hardly be any big things to go off of.

Oh lord i was stating yes i was annoyed at Saber because i saw no valid reason for his vote considering he'd just made a joke about me being scum and then voted me for a "competeing bandwagon" which i find as anti town.

Why would scum be more likely to do that?


So far, BloodCovenent and Snow White have been giving me scum vibes. Snow White for her strange reasoning, and BloodCovenent because I disliked 131. However, Snow White seems scummier to me so I'll jump aboard the bandwagon.

Vote: Snow White

[Wickedestjr]

I'm not done catching up yet unfortunately, but will come back to this game when I get the chance.

Also...

Mod: I will have no computer access from Monday-Friday. I will be in another country.

[Wickedestjr]

@Santos. I voted Lowell randomly because of our last game together he lurked absymally as scum. Id vote him but my vote is now on saberwolf.

So???

In regard to my voting of you it was a joke. I did not expect as many votes as you got to accumulate and were i later than second i would not have voted you.

But thats all just wifom really. It was the RVS and i was not taking it too seriously, unfortunately

.

Dislike the bolded part of this.

@Wicked. ... Quite a serious reason behind it all imo.

Yeah. I know. Why are you saying it again? I got the picture.

In terms of OMGUS. You believe it never should be done? Its neither helpful to town or scum? Then why not use it?

Do you think it is useful?

I ave said i have not liked sabers actions toward myself, i do not expect such actions from town so early. This is not to say that i am certain saber is scum. Im not. But that i have not to date liked his actions. In regard to where my vote is, where do you suggest me putting it? Unvoting means i vote myself. I for one am not enticed to do such a thing.

Why do you have a problem with voting for yourself?

[Wickedestjr]

nook, stfu; I'll post when I feel it helps the town.

And that will be by the end of the day.

I have a little problem finding time to post, but I promise not to let you people down.

I'll have my beliefs by the end of tomorrow morning.

?

Gawd the arguing around here is so very pointless.

I know!!!! How are we supposed to catch scum with all this pointless discussion!?!?!?

Competing bandwagons are fairly protown in my opinion, however this isn't a competing bandwagon, it's hysteric tunneling from both SW and Saberwolf. Stop ripping each other's hair out and get in the game (hypocrite, right?)

It is extremely funny how you complain about the contribution in this game, yet:

1: Don't make any attempt to do anything about it.

2: Just complains about it, without even giving feedback.

3: You aren't helping this game progress either.

FoS: Dramonic

As for me, I need to do a thorough reread

If you've read the game already, then give your opinions on what has happened instead of saying you are going to read the game again.

2 hours left before your promise of some kind of contribution to the game is broken. If that is the case, I will gladly vote you to get rid of a lurker =D. And slightly off topic, I always hated lurker cannons =__= always screwed up my lings D=

FoS: MrSuave

[Wickedestjr]

please explain your FOS

1: Earlier you were waiting for something to happen, but never did actually try to help get us out of the RVS. And now, we are out of the RVS, and you still aren't helping.

2: You warn SolemnJ that you will vote him. I don't really see the point of that.

Could someone justify for me why Snow white is a better lynch candidate than bloodcovenant in one sentence?

Snow White is using bad logic and there is no case against BloodCovenent that has been given yet.

your 3 points agaisnt me are pretty much the same Wicked.

1 and 2 are the same. 3 is different. Now defend yourself.

But ya I agree that Snow White is more scummier because we have seen more from her we need more actions from bloodcovenant

This doesn't sit well with me.

FoS: Mufasa

1: Saying he agrees that Snow White when he also says:

Could someone justify for me why Snow white is a better lynch candidate than bloodcovenant in one sentence?

And I don't see why he'd ask that if he knew the answer.


2: Thinks Snow White is scummier because she has posted more.

Whats wrong with being more talkative saberwolf it makes it so you dont have an easy reason to lynch me, but in all seriousness if BloodCovenant doesn't post today I am voting for Snow White

1. Why do you care about how easy it is to get you lynched?

2. BloodCovenent has posted today.

3. So BloodCovenent could easily lurk so that you would join the Snow White bandwagon. Also, this implies that you have reasons to believe that BloodCovenent is scum which you haven't given. Plan on giving those reasons?

[Wickedestjr]

DeuxiemeOctopus

has replaced StumpyTheElephantMan

Wow. Dang. That's gonna be a hard name for me to remember.

Hey Octupus!! (can I call you that?)

I was just gonna call him SW.

Hey! That's a good idea.


Wow. I

really

dislike EtherealCookie's post.

FoS: EtherealCookie

First you don't even take into account that saberwolf has other points against Snow White.

Second, you critisize one of saberwolf's points for how weak it is, even though it was made on like page 5.

Not really... I see townies do it too, to try defending themselves.

What allignment do you think would be more likely to do that?

[Wickedestjr]

Thirldy, EtherealCookie makes these posts;

Oh god, questioning my votes at the random voting stage! The horror!

Oh god, questioning my votes at the random voting stage! The horror!

Anything else you'd like to say about the game thus far?

No, not really. I don't have much to say at the moment, unfortunately.

In both I'm trying to get discussion started and he's not helping me. Then he complains about it by saying;

I really hope this can move quicker. Eight pages, moving extremely slowly, people still randomly voting or picking on minor details.

Actually, I think I'm gonna

Vote: EtherealCookie

I think this case is better.

[Wickedestjr]

1: How much of our scumhunting do you believe has been from badly worded posts? 2: Do you think SW and cookie are scumbuddies? 3: Why is cookie more scummy to you than SW right now?

1: I'm sorry. I don't really understand this question.

2: No. Do you?

3: The points against cookie are good ones imo. The ones against SW aren't really that good. I mostly don't like that she can't defend herself well and that she uses bad reasoning, and I also wanted to help pressure her. But EtherealCookie is guilty of the same. Then there is the contradiction I pointed out which acts as a tie-breaker for me.

Wow. Great reasoning for voting for me. 1: I point out that we're in RVS, and there's nothing to contribute about.

What about the other two points? That isn't my only point.

1: I don't understand this sentence.

[Wickedestjr]

I'm back and will be catching up.

[Wickedestjr]

Let me rephrase: 1: do you believe that whats been done in this game so far is actual scumhunting, or us tunnelling on those who make poor choices of wording in posts? 2: Are we catching scum slips, or dumb slips in your opinion, 3: based on post value?

1: I don't think it's the best scumhunting, but we are certainly out of the RVS. I think we are making a pretty good effort to progress to a stage where we have strong enough cases worthy of a lynch.

2: Scum slips or just misinterpratations.

3: Post value?

SW and cookie, SW being either noobtown or noobscum and cookie trying to take some of the pressure off her through chainsaw defence

SW and BC: VERY unlikely, but you gotta consider everything.

I doubt that SW is scumbuddies with Ethereal or BC.

How do you not understand the sentence, yet claim I addressed one of your points but not the others?

I knew which point it was in response to, but I didn't understand it. So please explain it.

First: I looked over the other points later, and responded to them.

Second: I'm sorry, should we ignore posts until the sixth page? How about we change that. Let's all ignore all the posts until the 10th page!

First: Where?

Second: I'm not saying we ignore them, but how strong would you expect them to be that early in the game?

Question for everyone: How do you play as scum?

I'm not scum in any of my completed games, but if I was scum, I'd probably just be more cautious.


I'll finish catching up later. Sorry.

[Wickedestjr]

Who's talking about a lynch? There's nothing scummy nor wrong about having two random votes.

Didn't you ask me this already?

You're telling me you find it not odd he needed to explicitly tell us he randomly voted? On page 3 or 4, when discussion was beginning to start.

Not really. The way he did it wasn't odd.

After rereading it's:
- snow (+dramonic)
- cookie
- MrSuave

For my candidates.

That's good and all, but I find it a bit strange that you just happen to have the same suspects as me. IGMEOY.

Why thank you. Would you like me to give my opinion on something?

What do you think of SW, saberwolf, Sanjay, BC, MrSuave, and MME?

1. 1:IMO, so they can justify their vote. 2: And actually something that I regret, is self voting so early. 3: I robbed the town of proper bandwagoning in an aspect.

1: It wasn't obvious why they were voting you?

2: Then why'd you do it?

3: Really. What makes you think this?

2. I hope the first part was sarcastic. As for getting through the RVS, where I pointed out that I thought there was a lack of questioning, I think there should have been more.

No, the first part of that was completely serious. If I was incorrect in thinking that, then how were you trying to get out of the RVS?

3. Because it shows that a player is putting pressure onto other players. The more pressure the better.

Random votes alone don't put much pressure on players. It is when random votes go on the same place to form a bandwagon that players get pressured. I think the time to switch your vote around and pressure people is shortly after the RVS which is what I am doing now. Also please explain how saberwolf's random votes were pressuring people.


246 --> Badposting.


Darn it. Can't finish catching up. Will try to later.

[Wickedestjr]

Hello xRECKONERx!!! Nice to play with you again.

I think Mufasa is rather scummy for #23. I couldn't tell what he was trying to do... he basically jokingly hinted that the BC wagon should continue, then basically repeats Snow White's #18 posed to BC.

I questioned BC about it too. What do you think of me?

Sanjay's #65 is odd, and I don't like it. FoS: Sanjay
I think the game had progressed far past the RVS by the time he posted that, and it was a blatant attempt to add nothing to the game. Apparently, dramonic agreed with my assessment in his post #82. When Sanjay does receive a vote and finally gets pressured, he decides to come to BC's party a little late and vote him.

First of all, what makes you think Dramonic was voting Sanjay because of that? Sanjay had given other helpful posts prior to the vote. Also, what makes you think Sanjay voted BC because of that, because it was like ten posts after Dramonic voted? I do agree that Sanjay was kind of late to join the bandwagon though.

Suave's #104 is scummy as all get out, but I still don't like the Sanjay vibe a lot more than I dislike Suave using RVS-logic to explain a vote on Sanjay when we have obviously moved past the RVS. I also don't like his #110, where he says there's nothing to gather from the first few pages. If there's nothing to gather, or analyze, explain how I got my above paragraphs? And let's not even mention Suave's #129 where he openly admits to voting SW for regurgitated reasoning... right after he had just said he didn't see anything from what had happened so far literally 19 posts before.

I agree with you that MrSuave is probably scum, but I don't like the points you provide against him. Especially the last one.

Note: something about BC calling himself neutral after voting himself from the start just screams scum playing mind games.

Where'd BC call himself neutral?

I honestly can't believe the SW/saberwolf argument is still going on... dramonic hit the nail on the head with his post #150. Both SW and saber need to scumhunt instead of screaming bloody murder at each other for no apparent reason.

The screaming bloody murder at each other pretty much started the discussion imo.

Sanjay's #175: is he defending BC? Why? Sanjay, do you find BC townish?

I dislike this point.

According to her logic, no one should vote. At all. Yet she votes for Lowell. For being inactive in a previous game. That doesn't add up, does it?

It didn't really bother me. It looked like a newb asking a stupid question, which, looking back at my first game, appears to be very similar.

Wow, Mufasa, if I could, I would daykill you for that post.

FoS: Mufasa.

You are FoSing Mufasa for a terrible post, yet keep your vote on Lowell for bad reasons. That doesn't seem right. Also, have you ever seen any of Lowell's games before?

Also, I think this Snow White wagon is bullshit. There is nothing substantial upon it except bandwagon votes with crap reasons.

You say the Snow White bandwagon is crap, yet you never say anything in regard to saberwolf. Trying to avoid interacting with other players maybe?

Do you read my posts?

No. Absolutely not.

Once again, I've mentioned that's a terrible reason to vote for someone. I'm sorry if I had nothing to say in RVS.

That isn't really a good defense. Are you reading my posts?

I'm saying, it's a terrible reason to vote for someone simply because they have nothing to contribute in RVS.

You're right. Too bad that's not the reason I'm voting you.

Second: I'm not saying we ignore them, but how strong would you expect them to be that early in the game?

Okay. I'm going to

Unvote

. I'm still suspicious of Ethereal, but I would rather

Vote: MrSuave

. For:

1.) Complained about how nothing was happening in the game, yet didn't help to make it progress either.

2.) Warned somebody that he was going to vote them.

3.) Voted a lurker.


Also my opinions on the players;

Mufasa - Neutral - He has done nothing to raise my suspicions thus far. This is typical Mufasa I think. But I've never seen him as scum.

Sanjay - Neutral (a tad towards scum) - xRx provided a good point about Sanjay's late arrival to the BC wagon which is the tad bit pulling Sanjay towards scum, but my gut keeps changing.

SolemnJ - Town/Neutral - Too many people I could see being scum. He is probably town.

saberwolf - Town - I'm liking his presence in this game. He seems to be scumhunting and he has done nothing to bother me.

nook - Neutral/Scum - What has he contributed to the game?

xRECKONERx - Scum - Didn't like his catch-up post. Many of the points in it were bad.

BloodCovenent - Scum - Didn't like post 131.

DeathNote - Town/Neutral - Gut.

Santos - Scum - Haven't been impressed by any of his posts.

Lowell - Neutral - I'm sure it's obvious.

EtherealCookie - Scum - Reasons stated earlier.

AlmightyBob - Town/Neutral - He hasn't bothered me that much. I just don't feel safe calling him town though.

dramonic - Neutral/Scum - I looked at his town meta and scum meta, and his play here seems to be closer to his scum meta.

My Milked Eek - Town - His play doesn't seem similar to Save the Mafia, and he has done nothing to raise my suspicions.

Deuxieme Octopus - Town/Neutral - Gut.

Snow White - Neutral - Eh. I'm having trouble determining whether she is newbtown or newbscum.

MrSuave - Scum - Reasons stated above.

[Wickedestjr]

Wow, Mufasa, if I could, I would daykill you for that post.

FoS: Mufasa.

You are FoSing Mufasa for a terrible post, yet keep your vote on Lowell for bad reasons. That doesn't seem right. Also, have you ever seen any of Lowell's games before?

Doesn't really sound like me, Wickedestjr. You sure you got your quote tags straight?

Sorry. I confused Santos and Sanjay with each other. That was directed at Santos.

1: Anyhow, you still haven't said the reason for voting for me. 2: Honestly, I think you realize your case isn't great and switched votes due to that, yet don't want to appear foolish and claim I'm still scummy.

1: I have given reasons. You are wasting time by ignoring them.

2: No I think MrSuave is more likely to be scum. What do you think of the case?

This seems like a bit of a convenient answer for scum to make. It sort of gives you license to pull a "surely I must be town because I would be much more cautious as scum" defense whenever suspicion gets on you.

I have been/Still am waiting to get a scum role pm for a while, so if I got a scum role pm, I wouldn't get too fancy with strategic moves that I wouldn't make as town. I'd just try to put myself in the position of a townie and play the way I normally would, while trying to avoid the
anti-town looking things I do as town. I think I should have said that before. How serious was this quote? How much did you think that was my actual motivation?

Could you elaborate on what ways you would be cautious?

In all of my completed games, I got lynched, and I was town. It was mostly because people thought many of the things I did were scummy even though they were my meta. If I were scum, I'd try to do less of the things I get accused of as town, and also try to camaflouge them.

Also, I'd be happy to wait until after DeathNote answers, but could you explain to me why you asked him about the specific people you did?

I don't think it matters if I say my reasons now. At the time, those were people I was either suspicious of, or trying to get a good read on.

You have a neutral read on Lowell, a neutral/scum read on nook and a neutral/town read on SolemnJ. Could you explain where the difference is coming from?

Lowell is a player that I have a lot of trouble getting a good/correct read on. He hardly posts anything, and even when he does post I have no clue what his allignment is, because he has done some really anti-town things that make you think he is obviously scum, but then he flips town.

nook is a player that hasn't posted any decent content and has voted a lurker. I just need a few more posts to reassure me that she is scum though. That is why it is almost neutral.

SolemnJ is a player that I don't think is scum, because there are other players that I think are more likely to fill in the slots. Also, I don't think SolemnJ would be acting as scummy to be scum. It doesn't change my read too much, but I felt like mentioning it.


Sanjay, what was the purpose of that big post you made? Did it have any unique purpose in comparison to your other posts, or was it just another post?

Also, Vote: Mufasa

Why?


I still need to catch up. I'm at 285.

[Wickedestjr]

I did the quick math.

Averages of emoticons/posts per alignment for Snow white.

Town : 0.51 e/p (ignoring outliers, it's 0.35 e/p)
Scum : 0.89 e/p
Third party : 1 e/p

In this game,
Before I noted her of her emoticon use : 1.80 e/p
After I noted it : 0.36 e/p

Am I going somewhere with this? I don't know. I should have counted words in each topic as well but that's a bridge (or five) too far. But judging from the data above, there's something off. To switch from an excessive use of emoticons to 1/6th of that after someone noted it and saying you're expressive doesn't add up to her emometa.


I'll sleep on it.
And yes, I was this bored.

Wow. That must have taken a while. But thanks for posting that. I'll wait to hear from Snow White.

Given I can't unvote, I am satisfied. However, I don't find him that scummy at the moment.

Why are you voting him then?

How is my last point not valid?

saber's case on SW was given in between those two posts of MrSuave, and I don't really care if he voted SW for the same reasons as saber.

I'll find the post later, but I saw it in my re-read.

*waits*

Why?

I doubt that Sanjay's comment was intended to be a defense.

I don't get it... you agreed with me that Sanjay was late to the BC wagon, you agreed that MrSuave was "probably scum" but didn't like my reasoning (for reasons unstated), and you disliked my point about Sanjay "defending" BC... but didn't say why. That's enough to give you a scum read on me?

I found some of the points to be very wierd, however, you have now explained most of the points to my satisfaction, and I have downgraded my scum read on you down to a neutral.


My town read on Deathnote is strengthening, but I dislike that he is voting Mufasa.

I picked him because of what he said, and I was pretty sure someone warned us about his lurking.

Why do you think SolemnJ's behavior is more likely to be because he's scum?

Starbuck is here as well? Let's get a "Save the Mafia" reunion thing going on.

That'd be fun.


WOW Snow White. *stares at her long post*

[Wickedestjr]

I enquire why and accompany it with a vote, trying to show im being serious-dont think i stated this clearly however.

What was your reason for voting saber then?

Just for the record however in any given game i find the fourth and fifth votes are often unnecessary in an RVS.

What do you think of random bandwagons that are formed in order to get out of the RVS? Do you think they are helpful? Why or why not?

Disliked Wicked's implication that BC had self claimed scum when he voted to get discussion started.

What do you think BC was implying with that post?

FoS Sanjay

on BC's points

I get somewhat of a town vibe from Mufasa...I think his frustration with BloodCovenent seems townish to me.

in regard to this

ya why not we all love to train choo chooo vote: Blood Covenent

And then in contrast to this frustraation that Mufasa has according to Sanjay. Sanjay then backtracks with

Mufasa's vote looks pro-town to me because to me it reads like "weeeee, let's bandwagon"

Good point.

FoS: Sanjay

@Wicked. 1: Could you review what it is about me you find scummy.

I don't find you all that scummy at the moment. Before I found you scummy, because I didn't like your defenses to saber's attack, you said some things that I thought were strange, and the saber vote looked OMGUSy. Now I'm starting to think my scum read was an effect of you being inexperienced.

156 Wicked votes me. I feel i should probably address this. You find the terms "Simply in my mind anyway... i cant call it pro town" - the bolded parts you didnt like. What is there not to like? I have my own mind. I speak it.

They sounded like phrases that scum would say to defend themselves.


Will finish with Snow White's post later. Gotta go for a while.

[Wickedestjr]

I dislike your jump and it is noted Wicked.

Can you elaborate on that?

"Why do you have a problem voting for yourself" - Wicked. Well were i to do so now i'd be L-1 giving any scum left the window to jump me. D:

L-1?

1: FoS Wicked for listing 3 points of Dramonic which are basically imo the same. 2: You tell Dramonic to give opinions without specifying what it is you would like his opinions on. 3: What opinions of the game to date would you like?

1: In your opinion. Just because my opinion differs from yours, doesn't mean I'm scum. Also, what difference would it make if it were just one point alone? I still would've FoS'd him for it.

2: Thought I didn't need to. He had been here the whole time, so it wasn't like I needed to ask him questions to make up for time that he hadn't been playing like you might do to a replacement. I simply wanted his thoughts on the major occurences in the games.

3: Players, posts, and votes I guess.

Newbscum. Were i to pick two words to describe me. Calculating and Manipulative.

Newbscum? Are you claiming scum? Also, why would you be manipulative if you are accusing saberwolf of possibly doing the same?

I struggle to get a read of you Wicked. I know from Twilight i read you scummy anyway but just when i think your scum you appear to give some breathing room questioning why other people think the way you think which confuses me. unFoS i guess for now.

Why the unFoS? You accused me of something and your reason for unFoSing isn't related at all to your reason for originally FoSing me.

Wicked votes Cookie. While you say things in the RVS are often blown out of proportion you critisize Cookie for not examining saber's points he has against me? :S

I voted Cookie for not acknowledging the rest of saber's points and attacking saber for how weak they are. Cookie was forgetting the fact that accusations won't always be so strong on page 5 of the game.

What am i meant to do sit back and hope no one notices the accumulating votes on me? Townie or scum i wouldnt want that!

Sure you can defend yourself, but that doesn't mean that you react the way you did.

@Dramonic. I dislike the SolemnJ wagon. He's an inactive. He should be replaced if anything else. Why not ask for his replacement instead of voting him?

Why not ask this question to MrSuave?

I said i didnt expect town to be so aggressive to be able to decide one is scum four pages in. You are twisting my words by saying i expect town to sit back and relax which i do not but i do expect most to be a bit wary.

Snow White is right here. But Snow White, why no FoS for MME?

No. My line of thinking is that everyone should be looked at. Not just two individuals.

Even in the RVS? The less people we divide the bandwagons amongst, the stronger the bandwagons can be, which not only pressures the people being bandwagoned more, but also results in discussion being generated.

And if you are complaining that im not listing my suspects. Well it was only a few pages in but with that post your either scum or havent really read the topic. Would you care to give an affirmative answer to either one of them?
But by all means bring more ammunination and i will answer it as best i can.

I don't understand anything in this paragraph. Can you rephrase the whole paragraph in a way that is more understandable for me? Thanks.

[Wickedestjr]

I skimmed what you said... and honestly, I don't like Wicked's "Snow White is using bad logic" line, just like I didn't like his calling me scum or saying I'm "making bad points" without really backing it up with much. I don't know if it's enough to call it a scumtell, though.

I thought it was apparent what I meant.

From a quick skim of that wall, I see mainly IIoA. But that might be harsh, as it was literally reading 15 or 20 random lines. I'll read it more thoroughly when it's not midnight.

No. You're right. SW's post is guilty of IIOA.


At Sanjay's 315. Okay.

UnFos

. I assumed Snow White had picked the right post. One question though: What is your definition of frustration?

All one has to do, were the third voter to defend themselves was "i was just doing what BC was basically asking. Its not my fault i logged in third" or something to the extent.

Good point.


I don't know what to make of Snow White's long apology for her mistake. Thoughts anyone?

Holy... that post is huge 0_0

getting done with the reread.

It's not that bad if you break it up into parts.

Not at all. But if you have no reason to vote Snow White, why should I?

This has nothing to do with whether or not you choose to vote Snow White or not. I don't care if your opinion differs from the Snow White bandwagoners, but I find it odd that you think the bandwagon is really bad, yet make no comments whatsoever regarding saber.

You're impressionable? lol Would you like a cookie?

Mmm I would love a cookie. Thanks. What I meant when I said I wasn't impressed was that I didn't like any of your posts. I have explained why in some of my other posts I believe.

zwet, much?

I actually think Mufasa's worse.

[Wickedestjr]

I read Santos in iso. I'm not liking what I've seen.

Look at the suspicions and accusations he mentions;

Vote: Lowell

1) Not a random vote
2) I am picking on a quiet random voter
3) I have a gut feeling he's the quiet scum of the group

Votes for Lowell. Acknowledges that he is a quiet player. Just another bad lurker vote imo.

Its a little suspicious seeing Snow White go after Lowell as well. Scum partners? Its possible, but purely speculation atm. I won't forget her vote on him earlier.

Brings this up yet says "it's possible, but purely speculation atm". Looks like he is grasping at straws while also giving himself room to backpedal out of the statement by saying "but purely speculation atm". Not really any good accusations yet.

Caught up.

Wow, Mufasa, if I could, I would daykill you for that post.

FoS: Mufasa.

Votes another quiet player. Very fabulous.

I'm going to reread BloodCovenent and Lowell. They are particularly scummy, imo.

BloodCovenent and Lowell are two of the more quiet players in this game. I'm starting to see a pattern.

And yeah. That's it.

HoS: Santos

I think that's enough to make him my #2 suspect.

[Wickedestjr]

Vote: AlmightyBob

2: I don't find it as IIoA.

Before you found him to be townie. Now you have switched based on just that?

*Scum read on BC strengthens slightly.*

wow.

Gimme a day.

Just wow.

What? Was this directed at me?

I'm trying to do my read through and I'm really confused. There seems to be a lot of missing posts.

I think it was just StumpyTheElephantMan quitting. It is a bit of a confusing read though. Take your time.

1: No, I really haven't seen you give a good case of your reasons for thinking I'm scummy, and each time I ask, you deflect them. As for MrSuave. Let me give you my read on him.


2: First off, he types in a REAAAALLY annoying way, oookaaay? =_= He joins the SW wagon without bringing anything new to the wagon, simply saying he'll go along with it due to the points brought up. I have to say that's the first thing that catches my eye. However, I have to point out your case for voting him aren't strong. I don't think your case is strong enough to convince me to vote for him.

1: I gave my reasons. What do you mean, 'I'm trying to deflect them'? Also, look at my posts in isolation. My reasons for voting you are in post subjects 17 and 18.

2: How strong is it compared to the Snow White case?

how am I the most likely to be scum? I don't understant D= I haven't really done anything wrong, but then again, I haven't really been activly doing anything in mafia recently... I'm in the middle of midterms and such. I'll be all done them by Friday, so I'll post something then

See my case.

I hope this helps you guys!
<snip>

Neutral- scummy actions

-wikedestjr - Lack of real content. Just feels like he's asking dumb questions, that aren't really helping the town that much
-Snow - Voting out of anger only hinders the town, because you are blinded by your bias, therefore thinking clear can be harder. I'm not exactly listing you as scum. However your behavior is not pro-town, but I don't have a complete read on you.
-All of the lurkers! Me included too!

The rest, I have Neutrals on, for the most part.

There we are.

Also, something about "I hope this helps you guys!" at the beginning seems to be... overeager trying to appear town. Especially with the exclamation point (which, I've played in BC before, and something about his meta seems off this time), and then calling himself scummy/neutral at the end. I don't like it.

Okay. These are all good points. Definitely want to hear from BC.


YEEEESSSS!!! I'm finally caught up.

[Wickedestjr]

Will reply to [1: one thing] though in Wicked's post about me being newbscum in this game. (im not ftr but i expect no one to simply take my word on that). Ive played as full fledged scum once when i replaced /in the Scrubs mafia. I came in with scums being really rather inactive and being tied as a lover to one of them who was on V/LA. But participated as often as he could.

They claimed masons to prevent a lynch on my predecessor and then i led a lynch against our third scum. We submitted no NK due to keeping ourselves verified masons more or less in the towns eyes and speculated over a live doctor the next day. We then wrangled a lynch on the town cop who claimed, before we made a NK and won the game. This has been the only time i have been fully fledged scum and for a newbscum which i was and probably still am, i think i done pretty well.

1: Just one?

I'm sorry, this doesn't make much sense to me. Can you just summarize what your reason was for saying this;

Newbscum. Were i to pick two words to describe me. Calculating and Manipulative.

In response to my emoticon thing. Are you fudging serious!?!?!? haha. They're emoticons. You do or do not mind them MME? Which one? Surely you dont expect me to go back and trawl through my town games where i have used them too? *facepalm*

This wasn't serious. Right?

Unvote, in case I'm currently voting anyone.

*sighs*

Finally shows up at Post 69. He responds to Snow White's reasoning for voting Saber, and I think it's very well thought out. Random votes Sanjay, and mentions that the possible roles are interesting.

He does stay a bit too quiet for my liking.

The bolded portion is scummy. I don't know why she would point this out if she were town. Which is enough a reason to find it scummy itself, but that is not the reason I pointed it out. I think she was worried that we might find her scummy for trying to make her predecessor seetm townie, so she decided to make the bolded comment. This combined with my scum read on nook is giving me bad vibes from Starbuck so far.

Says someone who was also voting for him and didn't seem to have a problem with voting him.

Do you still find this wierd after reading the whole thread? Because, Snow White has already explained this.

You [Sanjay] then go on to praise Wicked for the question,

Where?

4. So you voted for Lowell because of what happened in another game, and this is supposed to do what for this game?

Stupid question.

You need to attack the argument not the person.

Why?

And then you go and vote Sanjay because quite a few of you have misunderstood what was originally said by Lowell.

I believe it was just me. Wasn't it?

Now that I've read farther, I see that you did misread it, and I can see how you would do so.

Then why did you point it out in the first place?

1: Serious strawman here. 2: How and when did he claim to be scum? 3: Last I knew, claiming to be scum in any role (town, mafia, independent, etc) is against the rules here at MS.

1: Yeah I know. Why are you doing that?

2: I have explained this. On his very first post he votes himself and says "let's skip the RVS". I thought this implied he was pretending his vote was serious. I also thought that this meant he was pretending to be scum and voting himself in order to skip the RVS. I also came to the conclusion that he was pretending this in order to get us out of the RVS because I don't see how he was intending to get out of the RVS if that wasn't what he was doing.

3: Really?

I don't think this question is a good one because Saber specifically stated that they have only played one game together.

So?

1: So explain to me how Saber's vote on Snow White was a random vote because I honestly don't see it. 2: She had been posting nothing but fluff and adding barely anything to the game at this point. 3: He did state a reason of "competing bandwagons are useful for town IMO", which is not random. I definitely think you are misrepresenting him. 4: I'm also concerned with the fact that you keep trying to push for a response from Saber about your vote when really you voted for him based on some pretty horrible reasons. 5: You keep stating over and over again that he placed a second random vote when he didn't.

1: I thought it was random because he didn't actually give a case at the time of the vote. So I just assumed the vote was random.

2: This wasn't one of the reasons he gave at the time of his vote. And also, I don't think she was the only player that was posting fluff. This was very early in the game.

3: See my response to 1.

4: I kept pushing for a response because he hadn't given one. I didn't realize my mistake until he did.

5: Alright. I've realized my mistake and I'm not doing it anymore. Not much more I think I can say.



Okay Starbuck is scum.

[Wickedestjr]

Currently the person I find most scummy is Snow White.

Vote: Snow White

Very convenient.

One thing that does bother me so far (and I haven't finished my analysis yet) is that it seems like Wicked and Snow White are trying their best to tiptoe around each other. It seems like a very fine line between distancing and buddying.

Examples?

Granted. Calling out something as IIoA, when it really isn't, is scummy. Yes i noted that you decided that based on a skim read, however you shouldn't have noted anything until you actually took the time to read it, instead of just skimming. when you read with haste, and make not of things that may not be accurate, scum tend to jump on those things.

This is a good point, apart from the fact that I disagree that it wasn't IIoAish.

Vote: SolemnJ
-Lurker, and anti-town posting when he actually posted.

He's about to get replaced I predict.

[1: That never phased you as a pressure vote], since I disagree that Snow's post is IIoA, 2: where as you think that it is?

1: Nope. I don't see what the purpose of it would be this late in the game.

2: A lot of it is.

I realized it after the fact, and fixed it, but my point on your not reading the rules is the fact that you had THE FIRST POST in the game and failed to see that.

I see no difference.

Look at the first line of each scum role PM. It names the recipient's role (1 scum), their godfather (2 scum) and their one other scumbuddy with role (3 scum). Plus there's a potential traitor, but on D1 they're obviously still Town.

Firstly, I think you might be right about the number of scum and you also might be right in saying that there is a godfather. But I don't think we know for sure that there is a traitor or not. If there was one, I think they would know they were. I'll look into it more but I gotta go.

[Wickedestjr]

@Wicked, you do realize that I'm still doing my analysis right.

I start the post with the page I'm starting on and end it with the page I left off on.

Oh!!! That makes sense. And it changes EVERYTHING.

[Wickedestjr]

There's 3 scum in this game.

Plus maybe a traitor and plus maybe an SK.

As for self voting, i've done it before, I thought I went over this with Zazie already, well, at least who i've learned it from. Mainly because I tend to think that the RVS stage drags out, and it could have potentially gone for several pages. I've seen a mini normal game last for 5 pages because no one was serious. However, in this game, I think my attempt at a self vote was a little premature, anyways.

How were you planning on making the RVS finish faster with that vote?

Quite a hypocritical post from Nook in Post 143.

So? Why are you pointing it out?

I love how he casually enters the game six pages in at Post 130, and then he votes Lowell who hasn't been around since the start of the game. Seriously dude, you haven't been around either, why don't you try scumhunting?

I think this point is incorrect.

It took you this long to realize this?

I didn't realize it until he explained.

Also, good job jumping on dramonic for complaining about pointless discussion, but not doing anything to be rid of it.

I'm not sure if this is a sarcastic attack of me or you actually thought it was good of me to FoS Dramonic. If it is a sarcastic attack of me, then you are wrong, because I am one of the few people that was actually trying to get out of the RVS, and I wasn't complaining about the discussion we had at the time.

[Wickedestjr]

I'll read the rest later. Don't have much time right now.

[Wickedestjr]

I'll admit that my question to My Milked Eek was borne more out of curiosity than scumhunting. The idea of emoticons as a tell is interesting to me and one I like to joke about.

So do you believe in the tell? What do you think of the analysis that MME has given?

1: Could you explain why voting for a lurker is scummy to you? 2: Especially in the context of how nook did it.

Because;

A.) - It is really easy to do. You don't even really have to make a case at all. I realize that nook actually gave reasons, but I didn't really like them. SolemnJ's post didn't seem scummy, but it did seem like something easy for scum to jump on.

B.) - It is a good way to appear town.

C.) - Voting a lurker doesn't put you in a bad position at all, because the lurker isn't going to defend themselves.

Also, could you explain how other players acting scummy makes SolemnJ look not scummy?

SolemnJ could be scum, but I don't see any good reason to believe so. There are about 5-6 players I could imagine being scum, so I would have trouble believing SolemnJ was. I hope that answers your question.

I felt like he was either trying to feel for what the easiest lynch was and vote for it or he was trying to give himself an excuse to move his vote off a scumbuddy. I also sort of hoped it would be some motivation for him to post.

So how confident are you that he is actually scum?

I talked about why I thought Mufasa was scummy in post 282. Did you want me to expand on that or did you not see it?

No. I think that is enough of an explanation.


BTW, any comments on my case on MrSuave or Santos? How 'bout my scum read on Starbuck?

[Wickedestjr]

Apology aside, I still think it was kind of scummy to misread me like that, because it seems like it could be motivated out of a desire to make people seem scummy instead of figuring out who is scummy. And I don't really like her explanation of how it happened. Is "really really silly scum" a scum archetype?

What about when I made the mistake about Lowell? What makes this different?


BTW, it doesn't seem to me like we are really working together that much as a town. It seems like we've forgotten how close the deadline is. The deadline is in 8 days, and it doesn't seem like we are coming to an agreement on anything yet. Also, many people aren't posting enough. These are all just my observations though.

If we can't come to an agreement on anything by deadline, then I think Snow White would be the best lynch. It would be very informative regardless of what she flips, but I think she very well could be scum.

[Wickedestjr]

@ Wicked - Because if I find flaws with my predecessor, I do like to point them out. But apparently, according to you, I can't do that? You seem to think so via the following two posts...

The bolded portion is scummy. I don't know why she would point this out if she were town. Which is enough a reason to find it scummy itself, but that is not the reason I pointed it out. I think she was worried that we might find her scummy for trying to make her predecessor seetm townie, so she decided to make the bolded comment. This combined with my scum read on nook is giving me bad vibes from Starbuck so far.

Quite a hypocritical post from Nook in Post 143.

So? Why are you pointing it out?

I don't see any reason why a townie would point out the scummy things that their predecessor did. Why do you think it is a good idea to post the scummy things your predecessor did? What reason did you do it?

Do you still find this wierd after reading the whole thread?

Because, Snow White has already explained this.

Maybe I just haven't gotten to that yet?

Alright. On a side note, I suggest you first finish your analysis before responding to people's comments on it. I just think it would be better.

You [Sanjay] then go on to praise Wicked for the question,

Where?

You wrote Sanjay in that post and this was directed at Snow White, so I have no idea what you are getting at here.

Oh I thought this was directed at Sanjay. Regardless of who it was directed at, please tell me where it happened.

4. So you voted for Lowell because of what happened in another game, and this is supposed to do what for this game?

Stupid question.

Why is it? She explicitly stated that she voted Lowell because of the previous game they were in.

That doesn't change anything. I won't explain why until Snow White has responded though.

You need to attack the argument not the person.

Why?

Because otherwise, it's considered ad hominem. You shouldn't personally attack the person that you are scumhunting, you need to be attacking their behavior/their argument.

I have voted many people for making bad arguments alone. I see no problem with it.

Now that I've read farther, I see that you did misread it, and I can see how you would do so.

Then why did you point it out in the first place?

Because you went on and on about it, and you were called out on it multiple times. It shouldn't take that many times to be called out on something to look up Lowell's two posts in ISO to see what people are talking about. It definitely feels like you were ignoring the situation here.

Really? I went on and on about it? Please show me all the posts that make you feel this way. Because I asked the question in my first post, and then didn't say anything about it until Sanjay pointed out that I misread it. As soon as he did I admitted my mistake. So this is wrong.

1: Serious strawman here. 2: How and when did he claim to be scum? 3: Last I knew, claiming to be scum in any role (town, mafia, independent, etc) is against the rules here at MS.

1: Yeah I know. Why are you doing that?

2: I have explained this. On his very first post he votes himself and says "let's skip the RVS". I thought this implied he was pretending his vote was serious. I also thought that this meant he was pretending to be scum and voting himself in order to skip the RVS. I also came to the conclusion that he was pretending this in order to get us out of the RVS because I don't see how he was intending to get out of the RVS if that wasn't what he was doing.

3: Really?

1. Yeah, you know what? And Why am I doing what?

2. You said he CLAIMED scum. He never once CLAIMED scum, and you just said so right here. You stated what you THOUGHT he IMPLIED, not what he actually DID.

3. The point of mafia is to hunt out the scum. If scum claims as scum or others claim as scum, they pretty will ruin the game for everyone else. I would figure that this is knowledge that would be known prior to ever playing a mafia game.

1: You said "Serious strawman here." My response to it was pretending you were talking about this point and agreeing that you were strawmanning me

here

. Because that is what it is if anything.

2: I thought he was jokingly claiming scum. That's what I thought the post implied. I thought he wanted us to think he was jokingly claiming scum, so I went along with it. I'm sorry if my interpretation seems wierd to you. I didn't understand how he was intending on skipping the RVS with that comment alone if that wasn't what he was intending.

3: I just didn't know it was a site rule. But come to think of it, I remember seeing a game where that happened.

1: So explain to me how Saber's vote on Snow White was a random vote because I honestly don't see it. 2: She had been posting nothing but fluff and adding barely anything to the game at this point. 3: He did state a reason of "competing bandwagons are useful for town IMO", which is not random. I definitely think you are misrepresenting him. 4: I'm also concerned with the fact that you keep trying to push for a response from Saber about your vote when really you voted for him based on some pretty horrible reasons. 5: You keep stating over and over again that he placed a second random vote when he didn't.

1: I thought it was random because he didn't actually give a case at the time of the vote. So I just assumed the vote was random.

2: This wasn't one of the reasons he gave at the time of his vote. And also, I don't think she was the only player that was posting fluff. This was very early in the game.

3: See my response to 1.

4: I kept pushing for a response because he hadn't given one. I didn't realize my mistake until he did.

5: Alright. I've realized my mistake and I'm not doing it anymore. Not much more I think I can say.

Okay Starbuck is scum.

1. You assumed and were told multiple times that Saber's vote was not random, and you never went back to see this fact. Another instance of you ignoring what actually happened and twisting it for your own purposes.

2. She may have not been the only one posting fluff, but she was posting damn well most of it.

3. How can you say he didn't post it when he voted her? You may want to check out this link, and look I'll quote it for you too!

I have decided to:

unvote; vote: Snow White

because competing BWs are useful for town, IMO.

It may not be an altogether good reason, but it still is a reason which makes his vote NOT random.

4. What do you mean that you didn't realize your mistake until he did?

5. Got nothing for this one.

1. Multiple times? This is bull. I realized my mistake the first time it was explained to me.

2. It was very early in the game, like I also said. Who cares how much fluff a person posts in the RVS? I don't.

3. I'm not saying he posted it when he said it. I just assumed it was random because he didn't really give a case. I didn't interprate the purpose as a serious one when I read it.

4. I meant that I didn't realize it until he explained it.

Currently the person I find most scummy is Snow White.

Vote: Snow White

Very convenient.

How so?

I have made a case on her.

I just find it a bit convenient that you happen to vote the person that most of the others suspect. I'm not using it against you, I just find it convenient.

One thing that does bother me so far (and I haven't finished my analysis yet) is that it seems like Wicked and Snow White are trying their best to tiptoe around each other. It seems like a very fine line between distancing and buddying.

Examples?

Noting this because I will provide this after I finish my analysis.

I'll be waiting for it.

I love how he casually enters the game six pages in at Post 130, and then he votes Lowell who hasn't been around since the start of the game. Seriously dude, you haven't been around either, why don't you try scumhunting?

I think this point is incorrect.

How so? Read him in iso and click on the link next to his first post. If I am still incorrect on this point, then please point me to where I can be corrected.

I didn't think Santos was voting Lowell for not being around.

[Wickedestjr]

I'm pretty sure Starbuck is townie. I played in a game with her as townie, and she's playing pretty much exactly the same this time around. I do, however, think that BC is scum. I can't discuss ongoing games, but I not only have meta-reasons to suspect him... but he's also only defending himself, not trying to scumhunt.

I have never actually played with Starbuck, but we both played in Save the Mafia and Twilight Mafia. I don't recall her being as agressive in either of the two, but I'll check again later. Have you seen Starbuck as scum before?

As for BC, I'll look into that too.


Hi FaerieLord and Sposh!!!

But from what I've been skimming:
- Starbuck is town
- Reck is town

Is it based on meta or play within this game only?

Here. No opinion. Mufasa has bad posts.

Who's scum?

sorry guys been real busy with school, at this point I am going to stick to my guns and say that BC is scum.

Who else?

Wickedejstr: Do you always talk so much nothing?

What?


Can everybody link their most recent town and scum games please? Thanks.

[Wickedestjr]

Hey almightybob. Earlier you asked how we play as scum. I'm going to throw your question back at you. How do you play as scum?

BTW, I noticed BC posting in other games in the Theme Park. Lurking? I waited for about a half hour to say something, so I think that may be the case.

[Wickedestjr]

What?

Your posts have basically been back and forths on things we have already read
Or else, they were completely trivial questions

Well this is the way I normally play.

Point in case: Post 160

1: Don't make any attempt to do anything about it.

2: Just complains about it, without even giving feedback.

3: You aren't helping this game progress either.

Where you said the same thing three times. Were you trying to make your case seem more legit by adding more points?

I think all those points are different. They may be similar, and I probably could have summarized it in one point, but I felt like separating them. Also, I am no longer holding that against him, because many other players are guilty of it as well.

No. Search for yourself if you care that much, but I doubt games that far back can be used as meta towards me.

Ok I'll look.

[Wickedestjr]

Do you really think eight days away is a really pressing deadline? We have a lot of lurkers but we have plenty of active players too. I don't think there will be a lot of problem at this point getting a lynch in time. Aren't you worried about the deadline a little prematurely?

I'm sure that we will agree on something before the deadline, but the reason I suddenly became so worried is that I didn't realize the deadline was so close, and I currently don't think I have enough information on some of the players in this game.

Deathnote, if you don't have any strong reads besides Mufasa, could you elaborate on what is so scummy about Mufasa to you?

Fixed?

[Wickedestjr]

I really dislike the Mufasa votes. I am unsure about his allignment, but I don't think people should be voting for him. I'll explain once I have more information about Mufasa, or Mufasa gets replaced. Until then, I don't see any good reason to vote for him that makes him better than other candidates.

[Wickedestjr]

FoS: FaerieLord

I've been waiting for his opinion on who's scum, but he has not yet given any. I find that very scummy.

[Wickedestjr]

I'm just trying to get this game going somewhere. We are at a standstill, and people are being very uncommital. We are wasting time.

Also, Sanjay, another reason to be afraid of the deadline that is a week away is that if we bandwagon somebody to the point where they claim a power role, then we will need time to switch over to somebody else.

FaerieLord - That's all you have to say?

[Wickedestjr]

I find it interesting how EtherealCookie says;

I really hope this can move quicker. Eight pages, moving extremely slowly, people still randomly voting or picking on minor details.

Yet doesn't seem to care much considering he has barely contributed anything the last week.

And one of those points has gone unnoticed: you called saber a townie.

I don't think this is a valid point.


Nobody has supported my MrSuave vote so

Unvote

I like this bandwagon the best;

Vote: Snow White

That puts her at L-2 I think. She should claim.

[Wickedestjr]

Gonna iso Santos and see if I come to the same conclusions.

Well?


BTW - I'm gonna wait til day 2 to look at people's metas and iso reading, because I see no point in doing it this late in the game. Unfortunately, the only one I actually managed to get to look at was Mufasa.

Also, BloodCovenent is lurking. He's been posting in other games.

[Wickedestjr]

EBWOP: this late in the

day

.

[Wickedestjr]

Woah...

Oh joys. Yah. I figured this close to the deadline i was gonna have to claim but i had hoped people were coming around so basically stalling in the hope someone else might slip.

For some reason I just can't see this coming from a townie.

Im town cop. Yay!!! Oh wait no... outted town cop. Oh noes!

Ironically this probably explains the over use of emoticons at the beginning of this game.

Can you give me links to some games where you were a non-scum power role? Thanks.

But hey! Any non believers. Lynch me and lets find out! :devil:

I am having trouble imagining that a cop would say this.

BTW. im aware there is likely one other cop out there as my sanity is not assured.

Why did you feel the need to say this? Surely if there was another cop, they would have been told the same. Also, this seems to contradict the role pm on the first page.

Eep! Plan was to investigate Wicked... someone who i thought had a higher likelihood of being innocent and going from that as my sanity, provided he turned up innocent. If he was guilty i was then going to wait till night2 if i lived so long as to pick someone else i considered highly innocent or highly scum and then work off that. Complicated! But then again so is this role tbh. :/

We didn't need to know that.

Anywho! Any questions shoot. But im as sick as a dog atm. Ill get back to you as soon as.

Well, there are many things that I dislike about your post.


1. You had been gone, then you suddenly appeared after I put you at
L-2. Was that a coincidence or what? Why were you inactive in the first place?


2. She was waiting for people to slip. I have a lot of trouble seeing this motivation from a townie. It really seemed like scum waiting for the perfect thing to jump on to deflect attention.


3. Look at the pm on the first page. It says "Town Detective". I find it a bit odd that she claims Town Cop. Also, it says "You are

the

Town Detective" which would imply that there was only one cop. Or at least that's what I'd think. Yet, Snow White states that she thinks there's another one.


4. She points out that she thinks there is another one. I see no reason for her to say this unless she is scum trying to prevent a CC.


5. Expects to get lynched. I don't know why she'd expect this if she actually was a cop. That is a little odd.


6. Comes in just to say that, as if she had been waiting for the time to claim. That seems a bit wierd to me. Also, she doesn't reply to anything directed at her after her long post which bothers me.


So I have no clue what to think of this claim. There are many flaws in it. I find it really unbelievable and convenient, but at the slight chance that she is telling the truth, I don't want her lynched.

One thing is for certain though. I don't think another cop should CC. For one, we aren't positive that there is only one, and secondly, I would like to keep our real cop in the game a bit longer.

I don't believe the claim. I would like a response from Snow White. I'm keeping my vote on her for now until she responds to this post. But I think we need to have an alternative ready. My preference would probably be BC if I had to choose between him and Mufasa. He is lurking.

I'll wait to here what people have to say.

[Wickedestjr]

Oh joys. Yah. I figured this close to the deadline i was gonna have to claim but i had hoped people were coming around so basically stalling in the hope someone else might slip.

For some reason I just can't see this coming from a townie.

BTW. im aware there is likely one other cop out there as my sanity is not assured.

Why did you feel the need to say this? Surely if there was another cop, they would have been told the same. Also, this seems to contradict the role pm on the first page.

1: Regarding first: It's mostly the wording. "Someone else might slip." This is implying that she has previously slipped.

2: Regarding second: Quoting from first page - "You sanity is not confirmed."

1: So you agree?

2: I know... What does that have to do with the contradiction I pointed out?

[Wickedestjr]

The claim is no good, considering it doesn't even reflect the first page's roles correctly. If this were a close setup I'd keep my vote off, but her claim doesn't even resemble the one in the rules

Unvote
Vote: SW

Is this for the reasons I stated? If so, do you really think the points I provided are strong enough indicators that she is lying?

2: Which contradiction then? I thought you were pointing out the sanity part.

Well, I guess it wasn't really a contradiction, but this is what I was talking about;

Why did you feel the need to say this? Surely if there was another cop, they would have been told the same.

Really?
I made a decent post on monday.
So, yes, I've contributed.

Yeah I know. That was six days before I made the comment. Almost a week before I said something.

I'm not jumping on the Snow White bandwagon, I don't see any good reason to. Case isn't strong enough for me, but not like that's going to her from getting lynched right now.

Do you see inconsistencies in her claim?
Do you believe the claim?

I really really really really hate this bullshit Snow White wagon. WHY THE FUCK ARE WE STILL LYNCHING THE CLAIMED COP? ARE YOU ALL FUCKING MAD?

My god. If you guys lynch the claimed cop on D1, I will replace the fuck out of this game, I'm not playing with such an awful town. More BC votes. Now.

So are you saying you believe the claim?

@Wicked. And yet it has come from a townie. Seriously, either way i have the most amount of votes of so i'd be killed at deadline no?

If you noticed, the deadline was six days after you claimed. Do you really think that's not enough time to switch?

Hey. NO one said i couldnt have a sense of humour here. Ehm.... a non scum power role... that i cant provide im afraid. I dont think. Every finished game i have played is in my wiki. Except Hoopla's the seaside in which i was a vanilla.

Okay. That is a big fat lie. Looking in your wiki, you have in fact played as a cop before;

2.)** Her second game was again run under the golivewire forum Eastern University of Michigan Mafia, username "Keiraoasis". This game was run under "Thriftweed" and

she played as cop.

After a fellow player "CharolastrA" announced they were cop "KeiraOasis" too roleclaimed cop. It was agreed that they would both vote no vote and wait until the results of the investigation the following morning but despite efforts, town voted "CharolastrA" off. "CharolastrA" was proved "insane bulletproof cop". From then on "KeiraOasis" was continually roleblocked. Town lost. Eastern University of Michigan Mafia Days 1-7

Why the lie?

Having trouble imagining a cop would say "but hey any non believers. Lynch me and lets find out" Notably enough Wicked your vote has stayed on me in spite of your "indecisiveness". This comes after days of being hunted and me being sick, im not altogether with it atm but i have tried my best.

I'm not done questioning your claim. I will change my vote soon, but that doesn't mean I have to do it now.

No. I have been told nothing of if or either there are two cops.

Then why did you say;

BTW. im aware there is likely one other cop out there as my sanity is not assured.

These two statements seem to be contradictory of each other.

I explained why i thoguht there was another cop. My first game of mafia i played as cop on another forum. We were all a bunch of newbs so when one cop claimed wasnt i surprised and somewhat disbelieving because i was cop too. But town lynched the girl who roleclaimed cop and whaddya know she flipped "insane bulletproof cop". So frankly id rule nothing out... again thats the second game played in my wiki.

If you admit to have been a cop before, then why did you say earlier that you had never been a nonscum power role?

The bold confuses me.

I don't believe your claim, but you could be the cop, so I don't want you lynched. I don't understand the confusion.

Id be happy lynching anyone over myself but chances are i will be roleblocked anyway if there be a roleblocker in the house.

Don't forget the theme in this game.

Whats the case on BC? Yes the lurking is suspicious but id be skeptical as to whether its due from college commitments or just lurker mafia. He however did seem opposed to my lynch. Dont particularily find that scummy. But if someone has anything else lol. do share.

He was posting in other threads in the Theme Park, so I know he has the time to post. He is just choosing not to.

[Wickedestjr]

In post 464 Starbuck makes two good points on Snow White that hadn't been brought up. These were the points;

Newbscum. Were i to pick two words to describe me. Calculating and Manipulative.

I have yet to see this.

So explain to me how you FOS Wicked in 312, but then you turn right around and say that you agree with Almightybob that Wicked is town in 348.

This seems very, very weird, especially after Mufasa's very scummy jump onto Snow White's bandwagon.

It was scummy, sure. I just don't know if it means he's scum.

I know that Solemn is replaced now, but I don't like how he gives Solemn a free pass here, especially since the guy has not participated at all.

What exactly can I do about that though? If I think he's town, I'm not going to say I think he's scum.

Saying many of his points were bad and not explaining why they were bad is just scummy in my book. You say you don't like the points he provides against MrSuave, but you don't say why you don't like them. The same with his post about Sanjay's 175, you just say you don't like it, and you do not provide a reason why.

I don't really have any comment on this other than, it is pretty clear I didn't put much elaboration into any of the reads I gave.

How about something concrete? Like a case?

I thought my responses to Santos's posts was enough, but I guess not.

[Wickedestjr]

If you are town and the predecessor made themselves look scummy, you have to work really hard to show that you aren't scum, and vice versa.

Yeah, but you were pointing out scummy things that nook did. How does that work out?

I think this is perfectly fine. It's when the fine line of attacking the argument turns into attacking the person.

I understand that this is your opinion. But I've done the exact same thing in one of my games before. You think people should only have their arguments attacked if they make a bad argument? I think the player guilty of the bad argument should be attacked.

How can you say this when RVS was pretty much ended on the first page of the game? You had the ones that came in later and still random voted, but the game was out of RVS before the end of the first page.

I still don't think the RVS ended so fast, but it is a debatable argument that I don't feel like going into.

It's not the thought Reckoner. It's the wording

"someone else might slip"

Implying, she already slipped.

That's not what I was saying, but this is a good point too.

I'm very very tempted to vote Starbuck for commenting on Reck's question without answering it.

Did you not read the following post by FaerieLord after that? His question is directed at Snow White, not myself.

FOS: Sposh

For trying and failing miserably to misrepresent me and not reading things thoroughly

You overreacted here imo.

More BC votes plz.

No.... Okay fine.

Vote: BloodCovenent

(I still want Snow White to respond to my posts)

That's L-2. No more votes.

[Wickedestjr]

@Wicked - How did I overreact? He was definitely trying to misrepresent me there.

It just seemed that you overreacted too much for something that could have been an accident.

@Wicked: More than just the flaws you pointed out.

What did I miss?

I thought I made it clear about my thoughts on Lowell, BloodCovenent, Mufasa and Snow White.

Are you confused?

Who was this directed at?

okay... can anyone sum up what's happened this last week... so I don't have to spend hours looking? it would be reaaaaaaallly nice =D

Well, basically, you have managed to completely ignore the case I made on you. After that Snow White claimed cop, and I pointed out a bunch of flaws in her claim. Then we decided to bandwagon BC instead who conveniently decided to stop lurking after being put at L-2 and claimed cop.

I do think that one of these claims is bound to be fake. I'm just not so sure which one.

QFT. Both of them seem extremely unbelievable.

Well, if we lynch BC today and he turns out to be the cop then Snow White was lying...and vice versa. What terrifies me is that they're possibly both cops until a flip.

I don't really like to do anything that risks losing 1 or 2 power roles this early in the game.

My only breadcrumb really is that i made an early joke relating to a game where BC was cop.

BC YOU BASTARD! YOU INVESTIGATED ME!

How is this a breadcrumb?

@AlmightyBob. No thats a typo on my behalf.

Oh that makes sense. I always confuse "investigated" with "voted".

The breadcrumb was in calling BC a bastard.

Oh yeah. I forgot only cops could insult people. Silly me.

also, nice to see everybody noticed my absence...not once was my name mentioned, and yet plenty of other ppl were accused of lurking. Why the pick and choose?

I didn't go throught the player list looking for how long people were gone. I just noticed that BC posted in two other threads in the Theme Park.

- Snow actually thinks that there could be two cops in this game, there are not.

Why not? And why aren't you voting SW if that's the case?

If we lynch BC, and he flips a town role, then we can pretty much guarantee Scum White gets lynched tomorrow.

If we lynch SW, and she flips as a town role, then we can pretty much guarantee a BloodScumenent lynch tomorrow.

However, if we lynch NEITHER, then we have a high chance of hitting a town role, the scum kill a random townie (as I don't see BC or SW getting killed off since it's such an excellent source of WIFOM), and then we're super-fucked.

Lynch BC today. It's the smartest move.

You don't say here why a BC lynch is more beneficial than an SW lynch.

Incidentally, I just did some number crunching in my head. If we were to randomly wagon people until they claimed and there were 2 cops, the chance of picking them first and second would be ~0.65%.

Yeah this is right. The chances of the two people just happening to both be cops is 1/153.

ive made blunder after blunder, which i will freely admit and apologise for.

So you admit that you lied? Why did you lie? What's the townie motivation?


Well, BC's dead. I hope we made the right call. I think I would have been supporting an SW lynch, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if BC flipped scum.

[Wickedestjr]

Happy birthday saberwolf.

*waits*

[Wickedestjr]

BAH!!! Go town!!!