Open 175 - Picking Simplicity (Game Over)

[Hyl]

/in

[Hyl]

Zwet is the only player that I recognize (even though I've never played with him) so

Vote: Zwet

Everyone here who doesn't have at least 10 posts is obv lurkinng. The last one here to score his 10th post will score a vote from Nikanor.

What. There's like a total of 50 posts, and 15 that should be even counted as relevant. That comment was a bit overzealous, no?

Also Nikanor, what seems fake about Snow's vote?

*Blowing someone's joke-vote out of proportion pretty much always happens in the RVS. While this is a null-tell in most situations, the discussion that comes from it (and possibly a bandwagon) is informative.

[Hyl]

What. There's like a total of 50 posts, and 15 that should be even counted as relevant. That comment was a bit overzealous, no?

EBWOP: I considered that you might be joking, but seeing how you're the most serious person in the game so far I wasn't sure.

[Hyl]

Relevance of argument has no bearing on day one. Whoever you vote for, you vote for on no evidence aside from prior knowledge and arbitrary outside views.

...Change Day 1 to "RVS", otherwise I completely disagree with this statement. What do you mean by "arbitrary outside views"?

Honcho, how am I discouraging discussion? It seems the only thing that I discouraged was overzealous suspicions.

[Hyl]

So, Blastinus, you're saying that the town can't lynch someone on Day 1 for

any

credible/informed reason? That one online game you played must have been full of trigger-happys.

[Hyl]

Single votes are anti-town? Really? I could agree that not voting in some situations works against the town, but single voting? That's encouraging the town to act scummy so we'll have someone to lynch.

[Hyl]

Hyl, why should it concern you if Nikanor wants to pressure the last guy to get ten posts? Do you have a lurking buddy?

Because pressuring someone to make ten posts when the day is half a page long is stupid.

When did you think the RVS ended?

What is the point of this question? You're making an endless stream of inquiries but some of them just look pointless. Trying to appear pro-town?

I also think Keyblade is trying to post as much as possible so he doesn't look like a lurker. He hasn't really said much of value though.

This does have some merit.

Unvote, Vote: Keyblade

[Hyl]

You withheld relevant content because we were still in the RVS? If other players were scum-hunting, why would you do this?

[Hyl]

Anybody have a good way of telling when zwet's play is just anti-town as opposed to scummy? I've never been able to decipher his gameplay after all this time.

Who cares, the solution to both is a lynch!

[Hyl]

Funny sig, Toro. And I second an explanation for why single-votes are anti-town.

Don't see what's wrong about Flave's 2&3.

Keyblade, are you going to respond to #128?

The bandwagon in Nikanor is interesting because, if he is town, it happened on a player whom the scum probably wouldn't want around.

[Blastinus's] reasoning was that (and I'm saying it this way because you did not correct my previous post) I was not tunnelling.

That's quite a stretch. Play-styles don't lie in two extremes (tunnel-visioning and flinging around silly accusations at everything).

[Hyl]

War, what do you think about Flave, Blastinus, Nikanor, and Keyblade?

[Hyl]

Scott is town? He posted 3 times, two of which were irrelevant RVS posts. Can you elaborate please.

I agree with your stance on Keyblade and, to a lesser extent, Flave.

[Hyl]

Missed out on the last few pages, post coming soon..

[Hyl]

I forgot that YankCane was in the game.

Not a fan of that. (...) Not "liking", Nikanor? Weird wording.

Yabba, what's the difference between "I'm not a fan of that" and "I'm not liking that"?

HH-232 I think is tunneling on 12KB, however. He seems to only put mention of 12KB's lurker problems when there are other issues about.

??? What about the opinions on basically half of the game in that same post?

My vote is (still) on Keyblade because, unlike the "non-scumhunters", his defense was pretty holey and illogical: "I sat and waited for the RVS to end, while taking away from scumhunting by making joke posts. And even after the RVS ended I didn't try to scumhunt." (Note his disappearance doesn't contribute to my suspicion.)

War's strange aggression toward Zwet has me wondering if they're the same person on two accounts.

Also, whoever's pulling VI for Zwet, I've seen him at least attempt to scumhunt (though actually he did get lynched d1!) and it did not look like this.

Wouldn't that further incriminate Zwet? Because it seems like you're trying to discredit the VI accusations, but from my POV your reference does the opposite.

This posts seems very contradictory to me. First it's "Vote for players with bandwagons on them! If you don't you're acting anti-town!" Then it's "Well, it counts as pro-town for the four people on my bandwgon, but not for you! You're not voting for me because you want to look pro-town, but because I'm a hypocrite. Therefore you must be scum!"

QFT, also lol because your vote

is

a bit late.

Its too bad WW is town given his contribution level, but he is town. I would take lurky town over active unknown in an endgame.

You're speaking like you already investigated War N0. I hope you're not going to ignore him for the rest of the game based on a bunch of one-liners on Day 1.

Dramonic, why don't you just elaborate? I thought #299 was stupid but I don't see why she "deserves to be lynched" based on it.

Why is everyone requesting replacement?
Also, am I the only one that hates player-acronyms? F13, FF, WW, YG, SB and 12KB all in the same post is pretty brutal.

[Hyl]

Who's F13?

Folilist13.

In the case of Pom, that's how she phrases her vote on Nikanor, "I don't like him." In terms of actual scumhunting, I'm not sure why you don't "like" a scum suspect emerging, heck, you should be thankful you have a lead. Not a standalone scumtell, but it's not really the most logical reason for voting either.

Since scum are against the town by definition, I find it quite normal to say that you don't "like" a scummy player.

Since I said that, I'm understating I'm townie and narrowing the scum kill pool -> scummy

This seems more anti-town than scummy. Anyway, I agree that Iguana trying to look pro-town is scummy. But deserving to be lynched? Sounds like feigned aggression.

what! no, he just said something stupid to me earlier and im just not very inclined towards him

Yes, and you've also called him an idiot more times than Iguana has called you obvtown. It's very out of place.

[Hyl]

Blastinus, I couldn't disagree more with everything you just said (about Iguana; the observation on War is meh).

Not only do I not find her defensive (were you just referring to Dramonic's attacks?) but your conclusion about her active play is flimsy. One, it's like the most commonly used example of WIFOM in the book; two, not all mafia behave the same way, so concluding "scum=subtle" doesn't amount to much.

I find Iguana's play pro-town because it helps catch scum, not because 'scum wouldn't behave that way'. They would.

[Hyl]

I was going to say that Pom was scummy for being non-committal in her wording before I realised she was thirteen (non-committal wording is fairly common in younger players, since they often lack confidence).

No. When I was thirteen, I had an easy time being committal in my stances. And we don't even know if Pom is lying about her age. (She's a woman, after all. )

Scum don't generally want to say things that can be seen as stupid; I see town as more likely to point it out as they are usually focusing on details. The town are the ones who care about finding scum; scum would rather just coast.

Townies unusually focus on details sometimes, yes, but scum are more likely to

fabricate

details, or spew out as much as they can to lynch a target. In the case of Yabba I doubt, as scum, he made that comment with the intention of painting you scummy. Therefore his comment is more of a null-tell for me.

For those not following, we are referring to where Yabba called out Pom for her weird diction ("I'm not liking Nikanor").
---
My current suspicions: (Note: Neutral players either haven't given me any read or aren't townie enough to list them as Town; MotR are both townie and scummy)

Town:
-

Honcho
-Blastinus
-Yabba
-Iguana
-Flava

Neutral:
-

Skitzer
-SpyreX
-Scott
-Grimmy

Middle of the Road:
-

Pomegranate

; I would have put her in scum if it weren't for her vote on Nikanor. Granted, it wasn't wholly original since 1) Basically everyone pointed out Nikanor's buddying, and 2) I had pointed out Nik's screwy logic concerning his vote on Blastinus. So Pom is more leaning scum because of her odd excuse for lurking and her sweeping town reads.
-

Nikanor

; Skitzer said that your reason to unvote Blastinus goes against logical sense. Do you disagree, and why? And who are your top suspects since you've unvoted Blastinus?
-

Zwet

; Give some substance please.
-

Col

-

Toro

; Several posts, nothing substantial. Who are your top suspects and why?

Scum:
-

Foilist

; I didn't like the vote on Keyblade. Even though Iguana provided some reasoning, it seemed like an opportunistic jump from "He's not the only one lurking!" to "Vote: Keyblade, and his wagon is only getting bigger".
-

Dramonic

; The "buddying much?" in #331 is largely what landed him here. For one it's a bit of a stretch; additionally, it forms the basis for an ad hominem attack. Conveniently the person he accuses of buddying is Flave, a former suspect of his, so I wouldn't be surprised if he lumps them together as scum.
-

Keyblade

I-forgot-he-was-in-the-game-until-I-looked-at-the-player-list:
-

YankCane

[Hyl]

So, well, maybe these are left off because they're mentioned earlier and there's no need to actually re-iterate. Hmm.

Uh, like 2 posts ago I stated exactly why I was voting for Keyblade.

How? How does that "help catch scum".

Asking questions, probing players, encouraging discussion, generally scumhunting helps catch scum.

There is no rationale given for "town" in said post. Nor for Neutral (although Middle of the Road does except for Col which is :bonk:)

The players I listed as town are active, sensible, scum-hunters, or 1-2 of the 3. That's generally what defines pro-town play so I didn't think an explanation was necessary. And I clearly stated the rationale for "neutral"--those players haven't given me much of a read from their posts. Therefore there is no rationale to list.

Now, that alone isn't enough to really catch my eye - although separating neutral from "middle of the road" really seems like a what in the hell manuever but...

Uhm...ok? Players with both questionable and pro-town posts fall in MotR. Players with no strong indication in their posts whatsoever fall in Neutral. What's so odd about that?

Note that I didn't say Yank was the only lurker, I said he just isn't here.

[Hyl]

Well, he has a concrete list of suspects, rather than an unhelpfully widespread suspicion table (as one would expect from his play-style). A townie in a game of 20 players on Day 1 (which is the time for creating foundations in your suspicions) would be more likely to adopt that playstyle than scum.

[Hyl]

@Nikanor-352 Because, as I've said a hundred million times now, players under MotR are both pro-town and scummy. My iso #3, #6, and #9 illustrate your posts that I find questionable enough to keep you out of the Hyl's Townies Club.

Which fall into which? You've created a double-blanket for "the town" in your read. So, yes, if those are your criteria for "pro-town" it still makes sense to associate your town reads with why they are town.

Erm...sure. All of them are scum-hunting with acceptable though varying degrees of activity; Yabba, Blastinus, and Honcho are sensible; Iguana is active.

The first is in direct reference to the I may or may not be a PR business. Which then is apparently pushed into a general "pro-town" feel. Which isn't my issue, again. It is saying that the PR business is a super-pro town tool.

Which its not.

Okay, well there's a misunderstanding. I don't find Iguana's PR nonsense pro-town in any way; in fact, I called it stupid and anti-town in two posts. I also said that her trying to look townie is scummy... Did you just ignore everything that contradicted your argument in order to make a vote?

[quote='Spyre"]Because I'm pretty sure I saw a "don't ask me or speculate on what I am" which is kind of the antithesis of "encouraging discussion".[/quote]
...Okay, let me rephrase that to "encouraging

good

discussion". I wouldn't expect anyone to promote talk about their own role in these circumstances. As for examples, see every post from her ending in a question mark.

And, throwing dramonic on there for a 1-liner when the neutrals are neutral?

Your point? Unless you can show me something the neutrals have done that is scummier than Dramonic's 1-liner, leave my list be.

It gets the cackles raised in that chainsaw kind of way when dramonic was all over Iguana for the PR business to begin with.

?

saying X is scum for voting Y who is scum doesn't click right without either the "this is an SK blending on a wagon" or "this vote is distancing from the inevitable lynch of his buddy"

Or, simply, one of my reads is wrong and the other is right. I'm not saying that this is the case--really, I didn't yet consider all the possible scenarios behind Foilist's vote. The fact that matters is he made a scummy vote.

However, if they are both town and scum then there should be a lean and thus :bonk:

The "lean" goes Pom, Toro, Nikanor, Zwet (only because of his meta), Col, in order of scumminess.

[Hyl]

You're neutral.

[Hyl]

soz bizy weeknd brestfeedin, post cum 2maro. stay tuned && DATT iim ouTT