Mini 880 - Mini Quick and Dirty - Game Over

[ekiM]

My wiki is now up to date.

Limited reveal is tuff. If an unclaimed info role is NKed we'll have no idea.

I know you guys are all competent but I'm going to paste my newly-standard claims boilerplate any way, just in case someone doesn't quite get it:

• Claims are for stopping power roles getting lynched. Apart from that function, claims are bad. They let the scum know whom to target.
  
• Unnecessary claims are really bad. Claims should happen when a clear and solid majority wants to lynch someone. Not before.
  
• Don't ask for a claim too early. Just because someone is at L-1 doesn't mean "it's time for them to claim". Only if everyone currently on the wagon is still gung-ho for a lynch, and someone else is ready to hammer. L-2 is ridiculously early.
  
• If someone asks you to claim and you think it's too soon, don't just submit. Argue against it.
  
• Vanilla claims should never stop a lynch, if the claim was requested at the right time. If they did, it means they were asked too early. (N.B., it's not scummy to claim as vanilla, it's just a bad idea. Argue the wagon instead.)

We have two weeks for D1, and less for subsequent days. Let's not faff around for ages.

Vote: SerialClergyman

. Wagons are the way forwards.

[ekiM]

Last time I saw someone get worked up over an obvious joke in RVS, they were scum.

[ekiM]

Scien, if you accept that he's joking around, why are you addressing what he's saying as if he's in earnest?

[ekiM]

Even if they were in joke form, he hasn't said he didn't mean it slightly.

I'm definitely not serious with any of this atm.

Hum.

[ekiM]

What motive are you imputing?

[ekiM]

What motive are you imputing?

[ekiM]

So you're voting him because he made an action, and all actions have motives, and some motives are scummy motives? Do you not see the problem here?

[ekiM]

Raskol --- because I'm trying to discern Scien's thinking and motivation. I don't feel the need to vote for everyone I'm questioning.

[ekiM]

I don't think Scien is meaningfully more suspicious than any other player at this point, so I'm not placing a "real" vote on him. Thanks.

On the other hand, I don't see any reason for town to hold a vote back if they think it's even slightly better than the one they have on now. I can think of a few reasons scum might have, though.

Please expand.

[ekiM]

Scien - the problem is that there is literally nothing to investigate. You've allowed that he was just joking around. That makes it null. That you're speculating there might be a hidden motive is not useful, unless you can explain what that motive might be and why it's more likely than an innocuous one.

I find the whole line of investigation pointless.

I don't think Scien is meaningfully more suspicious than any other player at this point, so I'm not placing a "real" vote on him. Thanks.

Do you think it's unreasonable of me to think otherwise, based on your recent interaction with him?

I'm not sure what answer you're hoping for here. I generally investigate before I draw conclusions, not the other way around.

I found his moves questionable, so I questioned him. Having done that, I don't think he's suspicious enough to warrant a real vote.

[ekiM]

Out of curiosity ekim, I've decided I disagree with most of your rules about claiming. There are plenty of times when an early claim is worthwhile (not the least of which is actually finding scum). In a limited reveal that might be even more important.

I don't follow. When are early claims worthwhile? What does the parenthetical phrase mean? Why are early claims more important in limited reveal?

Plus in general claiming is what all the cool kids do. I seem to always be asking for massclaims earlier than everyone.

Those rules apply to individual claims under pressure, not massclaims.

[ekiM]

You are a cop who has a guilty - what do you do?

Again, those are all about claiming when under pressure. Maybe I should make that more clear in future.

[ekiM]

I don't need to be sure someone is scum before voting for them. But I need more than something I've decided is effectively null. Placing a vote for a null reason is worse than placing a random vote, in my opinion.

[ekiM]

Somewhere between posts 40 and 48. I still think his chosen line of attack is distinctly sub-optimal, but I haven't found his responses regarding his reasoning scummy.

[ekiM]

I don't really see why, unless there's a worry that they will be hammered without being asked to claim. There really shouldn't be.

I guess those "rules" describe my ideal framework for how pressure claims would or would not go down, but if any part of it is broken (e.g., if people might hammer without asking for a claim) then the rest of it doesn't quite work too. Which is a reason to get it all out there at the start of the game.

[ekiM]

I really feel like ekiM is reaching on Scien here, but I'm not sure. I'm way out of my league in this game

Oh also, since we've left RVS and I have no reason to really suspect Papa Zito right now:

Unvote

Do not like. Don't try and play the newbie card in this game.

You seem to want out of RVS, yet you finding Scien's more serious vote suspicious seems to hinder the very process - what gives?

I want out of the RVS, but I'll still question bad logic. "I agree he's joking but he might be secretly trying to cast suspicion at me with a joke accusation" is a terrible argument, it needed kicking.

Additionally, the expanded rules for claiming under pressure he gave are ones that Troll agrees with for the most part. That should be largely common sense though.

I have found common sense to be surprisingly uncommon.

Papa Zito be using an opening Troll has seen him use in games Troll hasn't been in and doesn't seem that informative.

Is this opening refusing to participate with content or are you referring to something else?

Sorry, I missed the thread link and didn't realise we'd started.

Def here, will post again in an hour or 2 with substance, promise

Oh, that was easier than I thought, most of that was RVS and theorycrafting. I'm mostly disappointed that I didn't beat Serial into the thread so I could vote him first, that's 2-0 to him

So it's clear, I tend to ignore meta arguments. I use my own meta for gut reads, but I wont tend to use them in arguments, or pay much attention to others.

Votes on me are fair enough given they were pre-mod posting regarding me, so that's no issue.

And I haven't posted in 2 weeks because my only other game has basically been closed since Nov 7 and my net was down for a week prior to that.

What and whom do you find suspicious?

Vote: AGar