mini 883-Krazy Mafia Disaster- Game Over. Who won?

[julienvonwolfe]

Vote: Haylen

[julienvonwolfe]

lol.

Unvote
Vote The Mafia in this game

If your previous attempt didn't work, why would this?

[julienvonwolfe]

VOTE:Tarhalindur

Clearly must be around here somewhere.

I highly doubt we can win as easily as voting for the mafia.

Unvote

IGMEOY:FL. You know why. -_-

You know, you could take a more pro-active stance in this game, hey?

[julienvonwolfe]

VOTE:Tarhalindur

Clearly must be around here somewhere.

I highly doubt we can win as easily as voting for the mafia.

Unvote

IGMEOY:FL. You know why. -_-

You know, you could take a more pro-active stance in this game, hey?

This post matches the number you have. Page 2 lurker hunting, especially over a holiday weekend, is both foolish and scummy.

Okay, it's not a holiday weekend where I am, so I forgive you that.

It's not the postcount that I was looking at, really - more the fact that you unvoted and appeared content to leave matters there for the moment, with no further attempt at scumhunting. I'm not considering it a major thing. Looking through the playerlist, Pomogranate must face a similar accusation, while Zazier, Zoraster and CSM just need to start playing.

lol.

Unvote
Vote The Mafia in this game

If your previous attempt didn't work, why would this?

No harm in trying, is there
Lol. Im suspicious as to why they mods playing too...

I suppose not. If it doesn't work, who would you vote for?

Also, the mod putting himself on the playerlist probably isn't something that we can do a lot about on Day One. Possibly people with roles can investigate him tonight, if they choose, instead of us wasting a lynch.

Considering that this is a bastard game, it would be appropriate for the mod to put himself on the list and then not actually take part. Time will tell.

[julienvonwolfe]

Again, I am not accusing the people I named as lurking, more not scumhunting/playing as usefully as they could.

However, I'm aware that you Americans have a holiday weekend, so...

[julienvonwolfe]

Indeed.

[julienvonwolfe]

Julien: While half of your other accusations haven't posted yet -__-, I don't see what's stopping you from commenting on Pomegranate who actually posted. It's a similar scenerio you used on RTB.

Wha?

It's not the postcount that I was looking at, really - more the fact that you unvoted and appeared content to leave matters there for the moment, with no further attempt at scumhunting. I'm not considering it a major thing.

Looking through the playerlist, Pomogranate must face a similar accusation

, while Zazier, Zoraster and CSM just need to start playing.

[julienvonwolfe]

How dare you misspell my name, JVW?

FoS: JVW

Oh, sorry.

Anyway, welcome to my list of people who need to contribute posts of more substance.

[julienvonwolfe]

I'm not sure how you can call somebody who has the name 'Julien' in his username a 'she'.

And how do you justify calling my play active lurking, exactly? It's a fine accusation to make, but you must at least provide evidence.

[julienvonwolfe]

How does she have a point?

[julienvonwolfe]

You have eight posts in iso. The first two are about RVS, and the other six are about other players needing to contribute.

Oh, sorry, missed this. I have more posts than most players in this game. And don't I have a point about others needing to contribute, considering the way most people haven't?

[julienvonwolfe]

How does she have a point?

You want other players to contribute.

But...um...did you ever think of contributing yourself?

I have certainly tried to. I am posting at least every day, I am keeping track of other players, and I have my vote on somebody.

[julienvonwolfe]

I have certainly tried to. I am posting at least every day, I am keeping track of other players, and I have my vote on somebody.

Aye, that's all well and good. But posting every day doesn't necessarily provide content. Having your vote on somebody also isn't necessarily doing something active. As for keeping track of other players, so far it seems you've mostly been tracking their activity.

I'm not sure if I can really consider that...ah...contribution.

I have been tracking their activity in the absence of anything else to...ah...track.

Why is your vote on who its on? I presume since you mentioned it, its more than a random vote and is a contribution?

It is on Haylen. It was originally a random vote, but she is one of those who I see as not doing a whole lot for the game at the moment. Her last post shows signs of her contribution picking up, but not enough yet.

[julienvonwolfe]

Who else is on your

hitlist?

lurker list?

At the moment, apart from Haylen, CSL, ortolan, RBT, Zazier, and Zoraster all qualify as lurkers by dint of postcount alone.

However, I am more impressed by Zoraster than the others since he has some questions in his last post. I guess ortolan has a question in his last post, also, but it doesn't seem to have led to anything.

It is on Haylen. It was originally a random vote, but she is one of those who I see as not doing a whole lot for the game at the moment. Her last post shows signs of her contribution picking up, but not enough yet.

This is different from all the other players how?

Well, in the absence of an ability to vote for all of them at once...

But that's not content- I could check up how many times someone posted by myself quite easily. That's not content.

I find it ironic that you first attacked me for active lurking, when what I have been doing myself is trying to find active lurkers. Take, for example, Riceballtail; in his second post, he unvoted and appeared perfectly happy to let matters rest there. (Indeed, he basically has.) That's not content either, and I went after him for it.

I'm not sure where you got the idea of postcounts from. I have been quite clear about what I was doing:

It's not the postcount that I was looking at, really - more the fact that you unvoted and appeared content to leave matters there for the moment, with no further attempt at scumhunting.

[julienvonwolfe]

@Julien
1. Then why so passive on the Pome attack? You mention her in passing in comparison to RTB. That's very selective considering this is just early game to start tunneling.

I had realised that RBT probably wasn't the only one to be not contributing, so I went through the playerlist. That's when I found and mentioned Pome.

2. I recommend you read Zachtown with CSL meta. He distracted the town pretty heavily with a Mae/CSL scum link in that game :S. So I donno what to make about CSL.

Without trying to be rude, what point are you making here?

Jullien, you said Pom had to face the same accusations as RTB, why aren't you doing this right now?

She isn't active lurking any longer.

[julienvonwolfe]

I'll admit I'm active lurking, but it's only page 5...

So?

[julienvonwolfe]

So you can find similarities in my play with that of RBT?

[julienvonwolfe]

EBWOP: RBT, Haylen, etc.

[julienvonwolfe]

@ RBT:

Right now, I'm looking a few places. For now, however, I'm content with a

VOTE:Julien

for tunneling and IIoA.

Can you tell me what other places you're looking?

Also; how am I tunneling on you, considering that I broadened my viewpoint to include the other lurkers?

Finally, how is IIoA early on day one scummy? I would accept that it is scummy

late

on day one, but to demand analysis when there's not even any information seems a bit of a reach to me.

@DTM:

@Julien.

1. Um, so are you exclusively lurker hunting now? Just because Pom is contributing now doesn't mean that this question isn't just as valid based on her play:

(quote my original comment to RBT)

If you read Pome in iso pre-today it was: RVS -> Got pressured -> Unvoted -> Just defend and no scum hunting. By definition: that isn't a pro-active stance is it?

No, I'm not exclusively lurker hunting, now. You asked me why I wasn't making Pome face the same accusations as RBT, and I answered.

As for why I don't think she's really an active lurker, while she may not be the most pro-active of players she's engaged with other players (eg. me) and had a bit of back-and-forth. Can you really say that she's done no scumhunting so far?

2. Is scum hunting exclusive only to voting? I wasn't aware of that /sarcasm about your point on multiple votes.

No, it isn't. Did I imply that it was?

3. Just CSL meta, read at your own choice.

I have read up a bit on him already.

@ FL:

what did you think was wrong with his approach?

Hypocrisy. He's not generating content. He's merely calling people out and not really doing anything about it. As RBT said, it's IIoA.

What content have you generated? Please demonstrate how it is better than my own efforts. Otherwise, the accusation of hypocrisy fits you just as well as you claim it does me.

[julienvonwolfe]

@ FL

Note that I am *gasp* actually trying to scumhunt and question people,

And I am not trying to find scum by putting pressure on people with no content? (Enough of the condescending writing style, too, please. It's not becoming.)

whereas your first two posts in ISO aren't very proactive and your third is...what? asking someone else to do something you haven't?

There's a world of difference between my first two posts and RBT's first two posts. After my first two posts, I had a vote on somebody, and was questioning the person that my vote was on. After RBT's first two posts, he'd sort of vaguely made the same statement as lay behind my question, but had no vote on anybody, and said he had his eye on you, for some reason (and that seems to have been a joke). I think that my first two posts had more impact on the game than his, and therefore I think I was perfectly justified in taking the stance I did.

Next few posts are about the holiday weekend and trying to defend your weak stance on RBT.

And this isn't content how?

Most of your posts are fluff or just plain hypocrisy. As I said, that's not contribution.

I don't see how most of the posts you linked to are high quality content that is demonstrably better than mine. Your first seven posts are all about your role and asking for no discussion on it, for example, which isn't the most useful thing in the world. My post about the people not yet contributing, in contrast, affects significantly more players.

Your eighth post is spam, your ninth, tenth and eleventh aren't useful either... then you begin your little stoush with me, but interestingly, accuse me of reiterating and not providing content. Did you yourself not reiterate quite a lot regarding your own role?

@ DTM:

1. I didn't say Pom was cleared. I was asked for a

lurker list

, not a list of suspects. I gave the lurker list, and Pom wasn't on it, which doesn't mean that she can't be scum in my eyes.

2. Again, you confuse 'suspects' with 'lurkers', and twist my reply to FL to boot. Yus!

What more messages could I send to people, who - let us not forget - are actually not actively posting? Should I obnoxiously post a message in big bold text at the top of every page? Wouldn't FL love that?

[julienvonwolfe]

I don't think I'm getting anywhere with FL/UK. It's basically gotten to the 'NO U' stage, which is pretty useless. I would like Pom to weigh in again, since she's dropped out of the conversation despite starting it.

That said, to prove how contentless Julien is being. Do you have anything to actually say about the game? How about some scumhunting?

How about you answer the questions I asked you before?

I will repost this one, since I would like UK to comment on it, as well:

Finally, how is IIoA early on day one scummy? I would accept that it is scummy

late

on day one, but to demand analysis when there's not even any information seems a bit of a reach to me.

[julienvonwolfe]

Okay, Ortolan isn't acting like a jester any more.

I'm going to

unvote

and

vote: RBT

for twice refusing to answer my questions and for still being useless. CSL is similarly useless but RBT has been flying under the radar more. (DTM, these are people I currently consider scummy).

Now for lurker hunting again:

Pom hasn't posted in three days, and I still want her to chime in on the whole content discussion again.

Haylen hasn't posted in longer, and needs to.

[julienvonwolfe]

Pom, comment on FL/UK vs. me, regarding active lurking.

[julienvonwolfe]

Thrice refusing, then?

[julienvonwolfe]

Pom and UK are echoing each other so much it's not funny.

[julienvonwolfe]

Or, for that matter, the town.

[julienvonwolfe]

It seems that we're all waiting on this commentary.

[julienvonwolfe]

I still don't like RBT's postings, but I'm starting to wonder if there's a bit of confirmation bias on both our parts. He needs to post reasoning to back himself up, and I would still appreciate an answer to those questions I asked ages ago - he made a case on me and is refusing to defend it.

Ort and CSL are being useless and I would probably be willing to vote them, but so far they seem the 'obvious' choices, and I don't like to focus on the obvious in anything. That said, this doesn't mean they're not acting in a scummy manner, and I have found scum in the past by lynching the people who are obviously scummy.

[julienvonwolfe]

Ort and CSL are being useless and I would probably be willing to vote them, but so far they seem the 'obvious' choices, and I don't like to focus on the obvious in anything. That said, this doesn't mean they're not acting in a scummy manner, and I have found scum in the past by lynching the people who are obviously scummy.

This...rubs me the wrong way. It feels both like "Hey, this is too easy, let's look elsewhere. Um...but wait, I HAVE found scum by lynching the scum in front of me before". It's basically leaving your options open in a big way, like you are pre emptively justifying a planned arbitrary switch.

Well, quite, apart from the 'arbitrary' bit.

RBT hasn't done enough to make me unvote him, though.

[julienvonwolfe]

In conclusion, you are suggesting that I unvote RBT?

[julienvonwolfe]

Im suggesting you consider moving your vote somewhere more useful and try again later than let this game die a slow painful death.

Interesting. I don't understand why you're asking

me

to move the game along instead of RBT. In saying that my vote on him is useless, are you then implying anything about RBT's play?

[julienvonwolfe]

Sorry I haven't been around. Internet went down unexpectedly. I don't have time to post right now, I will get on later.

[julienvonwolfe]

I said to julien he should unvote and look elsewhere. You should as well.

And this leads squarely to the ort/CSL thing. I'm willing to hammer ort, if nobody else has anything urgent to add.

[julienvonwolfe]

kay.

vote: ortolan

[julienvonwolfe]

hmmm, actually:

unvote

v

[julienvonwolfe]

unvote, vote: ortolan

[julienvonwolfe]

Wow. Is this lylo already? Seems we have a lot of killing roles happening. Perhaps we should coordinate these for tonight, if we're this close to endgame?

As for the ort lynch. Ugh. Looking back at the wagon, there's not a lot of useful stuff to analyse.

Of the people remaining today, CSL has 58 posts of almost exactly nothing useful. We were wagoning him, until Porochaz swung things in favour of Ort with this vote:

Hi all, just quickly, I want an orto or csl lynch as Ive already stated if there is going to be nothing new put on the table. I am currently voting CSL but seeing whos on the CSL wagon with me, I would rather

unvote vote ortolan

the reason for this is the two wagons are marginal at best and whilst if memory serves me correctly I have no problem with Pom I dont like being on a wagon with either orto or Haylen and feel more comfortable on a wagon with Tajo/zorastar. orto for the same reason as CSL is one of my two suspects, Haylen because at the very least I dont think she has given me enough proof that she has read the game enough. Now I know that slightly contradicts what I said earlier about not doing a PBPA but I was expecting some analysis on the game in general which only came on CSL before her vote fell.

For a vote which proved so significant, there isn't a whole lot to back it up.

Haylen is similarly contentless, DTM seems to write a lot but not to analyse a whole deal. He responds to posts but doesn't do much more than that.

So, I guess I'm looking at Porochaz at the moment, with occasional disgusted glances at Halyen and CSL.

[julienvonwolfe]

I'm okay with a mass claim.

[julienvonwolfe]

I'm a double voter, with two seperate votes. This can be demonstrated by the shennigans when I hammered ort while trying to keep my ability secret.

[julienvonwolfe]

I didn't even think of a double lynch, sorry. I've never been in a game where that has happened.

[julienvonwolfe]

I would further say in response to your claim that it's ineffective play:

My strategy was to simply treat myself as a normal vanilla townie, try to do some scumhunting and see a normal lynch happen. While it's true, in hindsight, that ort and CSL would've made good simultaneous lynches, I had a vague idea that should there be two targets later in the game, I could use my ability more effectively then.

*shrugs* As I say, I'm not familiar with double-voters and double lynches.

[julienvonwolfe]

Eh? I said that I didn't think of a double hammer, because my belief was - rightly or wrongly - that my ability would be most effectively used if I hid it until later in the game. And you are correct that I didn't expect today to be lylo. Thank you for the condescending lecture.

[julienvonwolfe]

Posting as an activity check. Not much seems to be happening in this game, I guess.

[julienvonwolfe]

And, of course, this game

is

swingy as all fuck.

So if we are going to double lynch, who do we go for? Haylen and someone else? KMD is still on the playerlist; if we can double lynch, should we off him?

[julienvonwolfe]

As would I.

I will read up.

[julienvonwolfe]

DTM, you point out a flaw in UK's reasoning. Good lad. What do you want my thoughts for? I have to say, I don't like the 'might' have cleared Poro.

My thoughts on the playerlist, since it's lylo:

UK - not sure. I had an argument with her day one, but the people that she seemed to be associated with on the 'other side' of it (RBT, Pom...) flipped town.

Haylen - still not sure. She's contributed nothing of worth, and I think this trend will continue.

Poro - as I said, seems to have led the town away from CSL. BUT, CSL was only a jester anyway, so...

It's interesting, the way he used harsh language against ort in the closing days of yesterday. Is this usual play from him?

DTM - dayvig? I'm inclining towards town for this role, I guess. He has good activity, and I guess I'm pretty happy with his play overall.


So really, I think I would prefer a Haylen or a Poro lynch. If we lynch two people, I would like one of them to be the mod. It's a bastard game, activity's pretty low, and it's not very fun any more, so I would like to get it over with before the end of this month if at all possible.

[julienvonwolfe]

Ew, not the whole debate about IIoA again.

[julienvonwolfe]

Okay, either we lynch Haylen and/or KMD, or I'm replacing out. This game's too slow.

[julienvonwolfe]

srsly guys.

[julienvonwolfe]

It wouldn't surprise me if ProzacVig was actually ProzacSK, i've seen way too many SK's claim vig for it not to rub me up the wrong way.

So you are suggesting a Prozac lynch?

[julienvonwolfe]

Huh, so this comes down to me. I can go for Haylen or KMD (or Prozac if Haylen gets her act together and votes for him.) Not sure at this point which way I'll swing.

[julienvonwolfe]

Okay, I'm not going to be on before the deadline, so this is it. I'm completely underwhelmed at Haylen's play, and don't see any reason to think that Porochaz is SK rather than vig. Since this is a bastard game, something tells me that this might just be the best thing to do:

vote: Kmd

vote: Kmd

[julienvonwolfe]

Okay, to prove that I'm not scum: I'm not going to vote in this post. I have two votes and so can control the lynch (assuming that it's two votes to lynch).

There were two kills, suggesting either Poro-vig shot UK, or that Haylen is scum and DTM SK or vice versa. The second option is icky, so I'm going to ignore it. It also seems spectacularly bastardly, though admittedly this is appropriate, if DTM has both a day and a nightkill.

Right now, I would lynch Haylen. She's posting better than she was, but hey. How about a case on DTM? And DTM, likewise on Haylen.

[julienvonwolfe]

I have my prod. Sorry I've been neglecting. Will post tomorrow.

[julienvonwolfe]

I have my prod. Sorry I've been neglecting. Will post tomorrow.

[julienvonwolfe]

Okay, so I read up on Tajoscum. Lots of trying-to-lynch Haylen. I don't think this is bussing, since that would be stupid in a two person scum team:

hmm...what'll happen if I do this:

Vote Haylen

You'll get a wagon.

Vote: Haylen.

Also Haylen wagon please.

oh hai haylen is not even trying.

*snip*

Haylen is a good choice. Gogogo.

Vote: Haylen.

I Like

uncertain
poro
julien

Meh

pome
zoraster
rice
dtmaster

Post more

kmd

I Dont like

csl
haylen
ortolan

We need a wagon nao. All my three choices in "I dont like" are valid.

What do all think of these three?

Also note more favourable view of DTM.

Thus:

vote: DTMaster

vote: DTMaster

[julienvonwolfe]

Sorry guys

[julienvonwolfe]

That's funny, actually. Oh well.