Mini 889 - Shopping Frenzy (Over)

[el simo]

vote: Torqez

for being in two games with me at once 8)

[el simo]

Sorry, been out of the loop, spilt milo on my keyboard, utterly destroying it despite my best efforts to repair it, so I didn't have easy posting options for two or so days. Got one now though, somewhat obviously.

SO i have a question for all of you. What are your experiences with mafiascum. Have you played in other sites? or are you still a newbie.

This is my second game on this site, but I've been playing this game on forums for three or so years now so I'm not too bad.

But atm, I'm getting bored of Mafia (going through a phase ) ...so i'd be willing to try anything for the sake of variety!

Sounds like you'll be a liability to the town even if you are town. Everyone not voting Torqez should be now for his uselessness.

Uselessness? He said he was in a

phase

of boredom with Mafia. How does this imply that his is useless? He even stated that he is willing to try new things, ie he is playing and he is going to keep playing and not be useless.

let's lynch the admitted useless one.

Again: not useless, bored. Also, not admitted, accused.

As to this recent discussion I shouldn't have to point out that there's no guarantee that we have a cop and that no lynching is almost always the wrong decision based on statistics let alone the information lynch provides.

^ this, see: wiki

@DDD: Is that a policy lynch then? I'd prefer a replacement at this point seeing as we're only 3 pages in, if we assume he will flake.

Sure, call it that if you like. Seriously, I had a large normal game a few months ago where the entire scum team was extremely apathetic about playing and yet none of them replaced out. Why? Because players usually enjoy being scum and feel an obligation to the role more than they do as a random townsperson. So Torquez was providing pre-emptive cover for their lame scummy behavior in the future and we should string 'em up.

I disagree. There are too many external factors that we can't assess to take into account when accounting for someones forum activity. Also, that is a huge stretch. Funny too, I've never seen someone try to lynch someone for possible future behaviour.

I

unvote

and

vote: DDD

for possible future scummy actions.

[el simo]

He acknowledges a current problem that needs to be fixed, you're making excuses for ones that haven't even happened yet. Now if he doesn't address the problems then I will be all over him for the same reason as I am on you for merely doing enough to remain in the game. By preemptively justifying your behavior I can only assume you intend to follow through with it and thus I must respond appropriately.

Normally I wouldn't have a problem with this kind of logic, but I think taking what Torqez said and saying it's to fall back on is a huge stretch. Even if that was his plan, it's incredibly weak, no one would let a scummy action pass because the player claimed, "oh but look I was bored and even said so here."

This whole thing is stupid.

[el simo]

Uh no, I've used that excuse before quite capably. I basically told the town as scum that I was going to lurk and if they had any questions feel free to ask. Never lynched, never even pressured that heavily, scum won.

Then you played with a poor town because I would have never let that pass.

[el simo]

Uh a poor town because I would have never let that pass.

Uh no, I was playing with some players I respect pretty highly in that game. Town basically broke their own will and scum did nothing to stop it and then played under the radar the entire game.

Of course that game has the combination problem of folding under it's own massive size and severe lurker problems. This game has only dealt with the second issue, but untreated such an issue can absolutely cripple a town.[/quote]

Also, no, because there is a difference between what you did and what Torqez said.

From what I understand you told the town you were going to lurk and if they had any questions they should ask you and you would answer them.

What I would like to know is how does this resemble what Torqez said in any way? And how does claiming to be going through a phase of boredom set him up to say "see I was just bored, it doesn't count as scummy," AND how does that even make sense? I don't see how being bored equates to an excuse to cover scummy moves with, and I don't see how it even relates to your example.

[el simo]

Going to have LA for about 2 days, will do an update as soon as I can.

[el simo]

I have some concerns about DDD, seeing as he ignores half of my concerns I will bring them up here.

Post 2 he says we should be voting Torqez for his uselessness.

Post 6 he changes his reason and claims that Torqez is scum because he was going through a phase of boredom with the game and didn't replace out. Also claims that he was providing pre-emptive cover for future scum slips.

Also, people enjoy playing scum roles but they also enjoy playing power roles, you don't need a dataset to know that. You are ignoring half of the possibilities that your own logic brings up and just claiming that he is scum.

Post 8 says that there is also little other activity form him, other than defending himself. Fair enough, but I am pretty much ignoring the point because I just played a game with him where he was the cop and for the majority of the game all he did was defend himself from our accusations.

Post 10 says he is making excuses to provide cover for future scummy behaviour.

Post 11 claims that being bored with the game is an excuse that does work and then continues provides us with an completely different example to what Torqez is being accused of giving.

Post 16: What? How does that matter? If something is scummy it is scummy and if more than one person is doing it you should be grinding everyone about it, not just tunneling in on one person. If I killed a man and told the cops that it doesn't matter because all my friends are doing it they are sure as hell not just going to lock me up, they'd at the least ask me for evidence to support my case, not just say "that never worked on your mother."

TL;DR: Inconsistent voting reasons, ignores half of possibilities and claims scum, uses irrelivant examples and weak logic to ignore others: see tunnel vision.

Originally I was jokingly voting him to see how he reacted to a bit of pressure, I didn't read his push on Torqez as scummy nor indicative of him being town, it was just a case. But the more he posted the more my jaw dropped, at this point in time he is my top lynch advocate.

We are not exactly waiting for scummy behavior from Torq. He's admitted he's bored with Mafia, and if he's

that

bored, why enter a game? Why stay in a game? Why admit it in-thread? This is just too unusual to be pro-town.

Have you never gotten bored in the middle of a game and just stopped posting until you forced yourself to out of obligation to the mod? I find this a poor excuse to vote someone, in all the years and on all the forums I've been playing this game I have become bored with the game so many times and just stopped playing the game all together until I found some sort of motivation from some source to continue playing. I find it incredibly hard to believe that no one else has felt this, because everyone has, I don't see how you can't when you are playing a game based on reading giant great wall of china posts full of text and confusing quote pyramids.

There was 6 days between the time he /in'd for the game and the time he started playing, in which time he was being relentlessly attacked in another game with me, it would've been very easy for him to become bored of the game in this time.

eleven,

why are defending Torq so vehemently?

For me it is not about defending Torqez, it is about refuting DDD's unbelievably stupid case on Torqez.

Don't be mean DDD.

Question for you all: Do you think that when someone replaces out, there role is more likely town or scum? Do you think a town PR or a scum role would more likely keep someone in the game even if they had RL stuff come up and couldn't post as often as they'd like? This may be a theory question, but in my experience, I've never seen a scum player replace out. My games are very limited compared to some, but I think the odds are in the favor of someone replacing out being town vs scum. No free passes to eleven's replacement, but.....

Well I think there is simply too many variables to take into account to make any alignment accusations based on this, or use it to support an existing case mind you.

For some people it may very well be that they won't replace out because they enjoy the role, but it also may be that do replace out because they don't enjoy the role, or because of real life situations like tight deadlines or some sort of emergency or perhaps they just aren't arsed, regardless of role. Their are way too many possibilities to take into account and it comes down to the individual.

Saying that said role is more likely to replace out isn't fair on the individual.

Having said that, if you had a strong meta on said person and have read up on his other games and see that he has a tendency to replace out as said role, then perhaps you have a bit more strength to the claim, but still, imo, very weak and unreliable.

CallMeLiam makes a good case against JVW, I actually pushed a lynch on someone in my last game for pretty much the same reasons, but currently I am more concerned about DDD's play so my vote stays there until I find something more pressing or someone else either or really lol.

Also sorry for the messiness of this unchronological and seemingly random post, I read through the thread multiple times and found things to say at different places on different reads and so it's all out of order and what not which is highly unusual for me

[el simo]

Originally I was jokingly voting him to see how he reacted to a bit of pressure, I didn't read his push on Torqez as scummy nor indicative of him being town, it was just a case. But the more he posted the more my jaw dropped, at this point in time he is my top lynch advocate.

You mean candidate, not advocate btw.

This is true