Newbie 873 - Game Over.

[foilist13]

/confirm

I'm your very own SE, so feel free to ask me whatever. (SE stands for semi-experienced, though I think at this point I qualify as an IC (inexperience challenged))

[foilist13]

Right,

vote:MichelSableheart

for being the only person here I know.

[foilist13]

Oh my. Ok, for the SE claim, I am an SE, shockingly enough, and I like to feel important.

Late confirm, well I don't have a great answer for that. I was late, my bad.

vote:Crimmy

for being opportunistic scum and trying to get me quick lynched. I think that's a much better tell than my late confirm, and I'm not about to vote myself.

[foilist13]

SE stands for "Semi-Experienced." It's a lower level of IC which stands for "Inexperience Challenged."

On an unrelated note, where in God's name did you get that avatar?

[foilist13]

Something else of importance, the deadline is in 20 days. There is absolutely no reason to lynch someone, at the absolute least until next week. I like absolutes.

[foilist13]

Idk, yours is pretty creepy as well.

Crimmy and McGriddle, you both made it to top 1 and 2 on my scum list. You jumped on an easy bandwagon (which is understandable in the RVS) and hopped off just as fast as soon as someone said it was scummy. Feels like nervous scum to me, so I will leave my vote right where it is for now.

[foilist13]

Crimmy has two, and are the numbers nest to the voters' names the post number?

[foilist13]

@Cades - I'm a little confused by your post. You're voting him for defending me, then lurking?

He posted yesterday, I think that's obvious, and I don't see anywhere in his post "if you disagree with me you are scum."

@Crimmy - Your vote was clearly not a random vote. You put me up to L-1 on a "random vote," which there is no excuse for. Either you didn't read the thread

at all

, or you had some kind of conscious thought behind your vote. Can you please explain what that line of thought was?

[foilist13]

@McGriddle - Who are your top suspects? Is it still me, or are you looking at someone else?

[foilist13]

I'm vaguely inclined to agree with CSL, but we've only been playing for a couple days here. Let's not get ahead of ourselves.

The dimaba argument is fairly easy to see both sides of. I'm inclined to think that Dimaba is town playing the way he thinks he's supposed to, and brother is seeing someone play the way he thinks they're not supposed to. Whether or not Dimaba is actually scummy based on this I'm not sure. I'll have to take a closer look at his post, but for the moment I get newbie town.

[foilist13]

OK, Day 1 starts.

1. Michael busts us right out of the RVS with a post against me, backed up by a vote.
2. Dimaba then votes me as well, putting me at L-3, but also posts reasons, and states his agreement with Michael.

3. McGriddle then joins the bandwagon without posting reasons other than suspicion.

4. Crimmy joins, and passes it as a random vote, putting me at L-1.
5. CSL votes Crimmy and FoS's everyone else on the bandwagon.
6. Everyone hurriedly gets off the bandwagon, saying they want to wait before lynching.
7. Bandwagon on Crimmy starts. (These last two sort of over lap).
8. Bandwagon on McGriddle starts.
9. Brother votes Dimaba.

10. McGriddle gets on the Crimmy wagon, without posting reasons other than suspicion.

11. Bandwagon on Cades starts.

12. McGriddle gets on the Cades bandwagon, alluding to reasons he posted earlier.

Is anyone else noticing a pattern here?

[foilist13]

Im going to

unvote

because Crimmy is no longer my top suspect. That honor now belongs to McGriddle, but only just. I'm not ready to put him at L-1 yet though, so I'll be content with putting him at the top of my scum list.

I'll post more tomorrow. Work is calling.

[foilist13]

I have nothing to add at this point, I am waiting for a claim, and I hope no one will hammer prematurely.

[foilist13]

Twilight, whoop! I think it has become abundantly clear that the mod is the scum and we should lynch him imediately.

Sorry you got lynched McGriddle. I went down pretty quick on day two of my first game. My friend then joined the sight and won as scum against albert b. Rampage, which of course did wonders for my confidence.

See you next time mate.

[foilist13]

Vote: Zorblag

[foilist13]

@CSL - You sir are a hypocrite.

I'm going to do a bit of rereading, and come out with my day two opinions.

Right now I'm wondering why Brother was killed, since he only posted maybe three times, and was solely concerned with Dimaba. This makes Dimaba look scummy in my eyes, as he could easily be scum trying to protect himself. Or maybe the scum did it to throw us that way, or maybe Dimaba did it to make us think the scum was trying to throw us that way, or maybe the scum did it to try and make us think Dimaba did it to try and make it look like the scum did it to make it look like Dimaba did it to throw us that way.

Oh my God, it's WIFOM.

Anyways, yeah, I'm going to do some rereading.

[foilist13]

Absolutely not CSL. Voting is the single biggest way to get a read on a player. Looking at voting patterns is one if the most effective ways of figuring out people's behavior. Just choosing to not vote is a horrible idea. If someone quick hammers again then we'll lynch them preety much imediately day 2.

You and crummy just earned scum points, somewhat mitigated by the fact tht you're newbies.

[foilist13]

Vote happy? It takes 4 people to lynch. We are not going to get there quickly, unless someone chooses to act unbelievably scummy, which town are not going to do, and scum are not going to do either because (at least I'd like to believe) they are not idiots. FoS'ing is worthless. Probably about half of all players never do it, and HoS'ing is even more useless. Saying I suspect you is just as useful.

CSL, your idea is not a good one, but you seem genuine. Crimmy, you seem to be buddying. You aren't scum hunting, you're having a pleasant comrade-like discussion with Crimmy, which while it is not damning evidence it is something scum would try to do.

I still find you scummy from yesterday, so for now,

Vote: Crimmy

but I may change it after I finish my reread.

[foilist13]

My my my Crimmy.

ok,

1) Contradictions on game policy are not scummy, nor did I make any. Contradicting yourself as far as your opinions or previous arguments is.

2) FoS'ing is stupid. "Finger of Suspicion" is a childish and dramatic way of saying "I suspect you," which is exactly what I did. The real purpose of an FoS is essentially to say "I would be voting for this person, but I'm not, either because I am voting someone else, or there is some reason for me not to vote, i.e. he's at L-1 or some similar situation." No one uses it that way. They use it the way I first stated, which is stupid.

3) Voting is good. Quicklynching is bad. Voting does not equal lynching. Voting 4 times by 4 different people does. Both me and Michael are in agreement on this, and I can assure you that this is the wide consensus of the people on this site. I did not contradict myself.

4)

First, at Day One twilight, you didn't even care about the death of McGriddle, yet, the next morning you go against what happened, and call CSL a hypocrite. That's one big contradiction, too.

I have no idea what you are talking about.

@Michael - Your argument is sound, but Crimmy's last post is giving me pause. I'm going to leave my vote here for now, but I'm keeping my eye on both Crimmy and CSL very closely.

[foilist13]

If I said FoS'ing was stupid then FoS'ed someone, that wouldn't be a scummy contradiction. If I said I never wanted someone lynched when I clearly stated that I did, that would be a scummy contradiction.

[foilist13]

No, I said that wouldn't be scummy, it would just be stupid.

[foilist13]

@Jack - If you won't be able to be an active member for more than 5 days or so you should get a replacement. It's not fair to just disappear and leave the other players without any reads on you, or having you there to answer questions, especially in a newbie game.

[foilist13]

This game is stagnating. Look what you've done, now I have to go back and expend extra effort looking for scum tells that would otherwise present themselves in the normal course of posting (hopefully), and right now I don't believe anyone else is looking.

@Dimaba - Haven't heard from you in too long. Get posting my friend.

@Michael - You haven't posted any content in a while. It seems like you've mostly been coaching, and while that is your job you have not been making much analysis.

[foilist13]

@Dimaba and Michael - I was just looking for someone to pick on. Michael, you get it automatically by virtue of being the IC

@Cades - If you think agreeing with Crimmy makes you scummy, then you must find Crimmy scummy. So why aren't you voting Crimmy?

Jackabomb vs. CSL

If it comes down to these two, I'd vote CSL. Jackabonb asked if he should hammer, and CSL told him to, which means that Jackabomb could more likely be easily led town/newbie

who did what the SE told him to.

We can't say he's scummy for hammering, when he didn't know that that was the wrong thing to do, and then the SE told him it was the right decision. So basically I see it that CSL may as well have hammered. (Little exaggerated, but I do feel like he bears most of the responsibility).

[foilist13]

Sure they do, they just don't get to claim newbie mistake.

[foilist13]

And you trying to get away with not having told him to hammer...

[foilist13]

Just about? It's bothering me that you are not admitting you acted scummily. Who on the bandwagon behaved as scummy or scummier than you?

[foilist13]

Why don't you make that question not rhetorical, and assume for everyone's sake that they were off the wagon, but McGriddle was at L-1, would they have hammered?

The obvious answer is no, but there is an argument to be made for the other side, and I want to see if anyone is willing to stake out their position.

@CSL - Don't even try that. You know damn well that you gave him your express permission to hammer McGriddle, which makes you equally, if not more responsible for the hammer itself, especially since you are an experienced player who knows that quickhammering is considered scummy, and could easily be construed as been trying to manipulate Jackabomb into doing it.

You need to stop this "I didn't

tell

him to" argument, because you know as well as I do that it is not going to get you anywhere but under a noose.

[foilist13]

First off my computer is down, so will be making my posts from an iPhone, so bear with me and try to ignore typos.

Now,

unvote

crimmy has succeeded in acting unscummy for the last couple pages, so I'm going to let him off the hook for now. I think our best play at this moment is to lynch csl, but that may change by the end of the day. The reasons for that are as follows.

1) He has acted scummy, especially for an SE as others have pointed out.

2) I feel that right now he is the most informative lynch, and I am refering of course to jackabomb. While it is by no means certain, I feel it is more likely that they are of the same alignment than of opposite alignments. The reason for this is that the scum team of csl and Jack acting in that way is extremely plausible, especially in a newbie game. Jacks partner tells him to hammer, so he does. Or, town csl tells newbie town Jack to hammer, and newbie Jack believes the SE. Or, scum csl tells newbie town Jack to hammer, and newbie town Jack believes the SE. What I don't see happening is scum Jack accepting the advice of town csl. While he would be eager to please the town, I think it is likely that the scum would be much more cautious than that, but that is speculation.

The only scenario I see where Jack is likely to be scum is if csl is scum also, because while he would be cautious around a town player, I think he would trust his scum buddy not to throw him under the bus. So if csl flips scum, I'd say that raises it to 50% odds that Jack is also, but if he flips town I doubt that Jack would be the first scum.

I think we ought to kill csl in order to get info on Jack, and because I think he is a scummy player.

vote: csl

[foilist13]

@Michel - I see your point. Can we agree then that the best options now would be to lynch either csl for slightly less information, or to go after cades, who is essentially lurking at this point?

[foilist13]

If cades flips scum then the only info we might get from that is a couple if town reads on the people who have been really drilling him from the beginning.

If he flips town then we really aren't left with much of anything, because if he AtE'ed enough to get himself lynched then he deserved it, and there wouldn't be any advantages from that wagon that don't exist on any other. The problem is that cades doesn't have any real connections to other players, so his lynch will be uninformative at best.

[foilist13]

Go read my earlier post. I explain it there, and Michel adds to it.

[foilist13]

I've stated my opinions already, as has Michel. We both feel it is the right play, hence our votes. Why do you keep asking for information that has already been given? Are you reading the thread?
Cades and dimaba are the only ones we really need to hear more from right now.

I do not advocate a quicklynch, and I hope everyone learned their lesson yesterday about quickhammering.

[foilist13]

You're not dead yet CSL, why don't you try to be useful while you're still alive?

This whole dead man walking routine is not going to help you, nor is your post about Lylo. That post is essentially AtE though, and not a defense. 1) You are actually doing your job as an SE, but 2) you could easily be trying to scare the town into lynching someone else.

Cades is a poor player, but he will get better with practice (my first game wasn't exactly a stunner). Does that make him a scummy player? Maybe, maybe not. The problem with poor players is that they are almost impossible to read as they don't follow logical patterns.

@Dimaba - We haven't heard from you often enough. We aren't on the grid here mate. Despite something I think Crimmy said earlier, lurking

is

actually scummy. An active scum player may come to the thread and see attention on another player, or minor questions asked of himself. He then chooses not to post, and allow attention to drift away from himself, which most often it does. Later people may look back and realize his inactivity, but often not.

The most common refutation of this argument is that town players are often bored or frustrated and choose not to post, however that can be dismissed by simple probabilities. Town are predisposed to lurking if they are disinterested. Scum are always predisposed to lurking (not to say all scum players lurk though, as they definitely do not).

[foilist13]

He's already played that card, but he didn't offer anything up other than "see ya"

[foilist13]

@CSL - No. You are twisting the issue. Cades is no more likely to flip town than you are, so lynching him to avoid lylo is stupid. You are making this defense based on the assumption that you are town, which would be a foolish assumption for the rest of us to make. We have already established that you have acted scummier and are a better lynch.

No he isn't posting, and lynching him would make the game go faster. The problem is we have no read on him, which makes it nothing more than a probability play, which because of his lack of content is 1/7. Worse than yours. The game is not forgiving enough to lynch people because they don't post enough. That's why we have replacements. It sucks, but that's the way it is.

[foilist13]

@Kyiv - You have replaced the super lurker from hell. Congratulations.

What we need from you now, is for you to read the whole thread, then post a short player analysis of everyone who is still alive. Tell us what you think about them, and why. Who do you think is scummy, and who do you think is town?

I would hate to be in your position, and I will do my best to keep you alive until you've been able to establish a coherent position distinct from that of Cades, as I think that is only fair.

Actually, I think that everyone should post a scum list. Sadly I don't have the time to follow my own advice right now, but I will reread and do so as soon as possible.

[foilist13]

I don't know what to make of this right now. I'd love te believe crimmy's claim, but don't you dare all just take his word for it. Notice that one of the scenarios is a roleblocker and no town power roles. If that were the case, the scum tean could pull off being the power roles with pathetic ease. Normally the cop will come out on day two with his investigations, forcing the scum to look for the doctor while he is protected. Since that didn't happen, we need to sriously question whether this is real, or a gambit in lylo to get a vote. If 1 townie votes wrong here, the scum can dog pile and win with impunity. Now I ask you, what better way to get a vote on someone than by claiming cop, with a doc claim to back it up, and no town power roles to counter claim?

As much as it would make our jobs easier, we simply cannot buy the claim and act on at this point in the game, as there is essentially a 50% chance that it would be suicide.

Now while we cannot accept the claim to be true, we also can't ignore it. We have to see who will come out as the cop, because someone will claim irrespective of crimmy's alignment, whether it is his scum buddy or the real cop. What we have to do then is analyse what will be both sides of the town and decide which one the scum are on, because they WILL both be on one of them, crimmy has seen to that. This is a super delicate situation here guys.

Above all, DO NOT vote unless you are absolutely sure, because if you are wrong the scum WILL dog pile, and we will have lost our town. We have to make it through two days of lylo, so now is when it is time to employ crimmy's earlier strategy of not voting. Here it is pro-town to do so, where as then it was not.

Now for my scum list.

1) Crimmy. His doc claim was not the right town move, as he just lost the chance to pull us out of lylo by protecting accurately and lynching scum today. No good town player would even consider doing that, but he is a newbie. That only goes so far though, and for now he occupies the number one place on my scum list.

2) Jackabomb. He hammered day one, and essentially took credit for hammering day two, both on townies. Not a good move, but it is explainable. His read on me could also be interpreted as blatant buddying. Maybe it's a legitimate read, but unless other people agree with it I'm inclined to think it wasn't totally innocent. For that he gets the number two place on my scum list.

3) Dimaba. He has been scum lurking since day 1. He drops in to post some townie looking content, then disappears to allow attention to settle elsewhere. Scum tell if I ever saw one. Night one brother was killed, whose sole suspect had been dimaba. Interesting at the least. For those he gets the number three place on my scum list.

4) Cades/kyiv. Lurking is only a scum tell until you get replaced. Him leaving the game shows that his mindset was not one of trying to avoid attention, but of not caring about the game. That makes it a null tell. Kyiv has some posting to do though.

[foilist13]

@Crimmy

1) There is no other course of action for scum to follow based on what has happened. It is my job as an SE to teach you about game theory irrespective of my win condition. I'm trying to win, but I'm more interested in bring you all into the site so that we can have fun playing more serious games.

Now that being said, there was also reason for my statement.

We have to question your claim, and also Dimaba's.

The fact that you are attacking me for showing the obvious danger is extremely scummy.

As it stands now, the clear result is that 1, you and dimaba are scum, or 2, me and Jackabomb are scum.

2) I'm not condemning you for saying that people should work on the assumption, I am telling them not to. Your claim means that you are either the doc or scum, not that you are the doc.

3) That is totally meaningless. The same thing would apply as doc, and the other power role has no knowledge of the first unless he is the cop and investigated, in which case he would have come out already.

[quote=Crimmy]Excuse me, what part of "Roleblocker" did you not understand?
Maybe some shiny new glasses for christmas would fit you well.
I protected Michel, moron. The fact that you don't trust me is of no concern to me, I'm only trying to get through this game with a win on the town side. Now, since there's a Roleblocker here, it would seem obvious that he would analyze, just like I'm doing, who I would protect. Guess what? It JUST HAPPENED TONIGHT!

And, once more, didn't you say it was stupid to have "suspects", and the only way to make them come out would be by voting? So, why do you have this "scum list"?[/quote]

Crimmy, I am going to refrain from insulting you as this is a newbie game and I am the SE, but this was a ridiculous excuse for a post.

The scum do not know if the roleblock worked.

They simply see the results of their NK. There is no way for the scum to know if they successfully roleblocked, or if the person they roleblocked was even a PR. They simply do not have that information. It is an extremely common play not to protect the
most townie player. It is WIFOM, and therefore to be dismissed.

How could you possibly think it would not be a good idea to go for another protect, rather than outing yourself, and ensuring that you would be killed?

[quote=Crimmy]Now, since there's a Roleblocker here, it would seem obvious that he would analyze, just like I'm doing, who I would protect. Guess what? It JUST HAPPENED TONIGHT! [/quote]

That has absolutely nothing to do with it. Who you will protect is irrelevant to the RB. The scum decide who to kill, then look for someone to RB incase they protect that person. Analyzing who they will protect simply does not matter. As scum you must assume they are going to protect the person you NK, and RB who you think is the doctor or the cop.

Your claims are fundamentally inaccurate and misleading. Even newbie town don't make those kind of mistakes.

[quote=Crimmy]Then again, regarding Dimaba, it would be really STUPID to bump off the guy who was voting for you, don't you think? Even for a newb, it would sprinkle suspicion all over oneself, don't you agree?

So, how can it be that the Semi-Experienced player makes such a mistake, as to accuse somebody of something so silly?[/quote]

This right here is the most damning evidence of this game. On D2 I discussed how this was WIFOM. The only reason that is partially valid in a newbie game is because newbie players are far less likely to think further down than the surface of WIFOM statements.

The fact that you question this proves you didn't read the thread carefully, as you would have know I said that.

This is one of the most fundamental and widely accepted scum tells of this game.

The scum do not read the thread as carefully as town, and never as carefully as the town in lylo. The reason for this is that scum do not have to find who the scum is. They already know. They only have to find ways to get other people lynched.

@Kyiv - Can you imagine for a second, that the scum just happened to be right on not one, but both of their role blocks? That is the most convenient thing I have ever seen in my career on this game. Let's look at the odds of this shall we. There were no PR tells in this game, other than general playstyle, but everyone plays PR's differently.

That means that D1 we had a 2/9 chance of lynching a PR, and D2 a 2/7 chance. Those are reasonable odds, however, let's look at the odds of the scum getting two successful roleblocks on both PRs. D1 that's a 1/7 chance of getting the cop, and D2 that's a 1/5 chance of getting the cop. However,

the odds of getting both roleblocks right are 35 to 1.

I hope that makes you think twice about their claim.

Please don't attack my probabilities. I had them checked by several people, and they are mathematically correct.

Right now it

is

between me/jackabomb and Crimmy/Dimaba. Therefore them defending each other and me and jackabomb defending each other is to be expected.

[foilist13]

Ok, Kyiv. Your three posts that you say make Crimmy town are flawed. Here's why.

1) He attacked Jackabomb and CSL, one of whom we know is town. I fail to see how this makes him pro-town, as it would be an equally logical move as scum.

2) I don't know for sure what you meant, but I'm going to assume it was his idea to wait that makes you think he's town until you tell me otherwise, k?

Michel, our confirmed town IC said, as did I that that was a bad idea. I would also like all of you to notice that our confirmed town IC agreed with me solidly for the first two days. I think that gives me some major town points here.

3) Again, this would be an equally logical post as scum. Crimmy knew CSL was town, and so he could have won some town points by being the one who was cautious and didn't try to get him lynched. He could easily afford that, as there was no way CSL was going to survive based on the way he played. (He hammered himself, which probably disqualifies him from ever SE'ing again).

[foilist13]

vote: Crimmy.

You knew because you are scum.

There is no danger in voting now. The only vote that matters is Kyiv's.

[foilist13]

vote: Crimmy.

You knew because you are scum.

There is no danger in voting now. The only vote that matters is Kyiv's.

[foilist13]

Please vote him Jackabomb, you have to be town, so I'm not worried about scum dog piling.

He and Dimaba are the scum. They have to be. Vote Crimmy, and lets finish this.

Based on the possibilities at the beginning of the game, there is now literally a 50% chance, based solely on the role possibilities that they are the scum, or we are the scum. This leaves out Kyiv, as he is obv town.

This however adds the fact that in order for their claims to be true, they must have overcome 35 to 1 odds.

Or 24 to 1 based on Jackabomb's math.

That is essentially saying "I'll either pull a king of spades, or a queen of hearts right out of this deck. Boom, did it." Personally I think that would be a pretty good magic trick.

[foilist13]

Crimmy, you are not paying attention. I know you are the scum. Period. There is no danger to the town in voting you.

There has been no counter claim to either of you. That proves that the two of you are either the scum, or PRs. If another power role existed they would come out now, or sacrifice the town.

This is why Kyiv is town:

Based on the two claims, you both have to be either scum of the PRs. In both of those cases Kyiv is town, 1 because you are the scum, or two because the cop investigation was legitimate.

The fact that you did not know that further proves that you are not reading the thread, and are trying to power play these made up roles.

There is no way the scum got both of those role blocks right in such a convenient way, or at all, and there is no way based on your posts that you are reading the thread, and Dimaba is

still

scum lurking. The game is over. Town wins.

Jackabomb and kyiv, please hammer Crimmy. There is 0% chance of any other possibility.

[foilist13]

Crimmy, saying my arguments are bad without refuting them is as scummy a maneuver as it is possible to make.

Your point about no one questioning the cop claim is also factually inaccurate.

I am saying that you and Dimaba are scum buddies, and therefore both your claims are false.

None of my arguments are based in anything other than mathematical fact and the most relied upon scum tells in this game.

Of course I want to hurry the kill, because once you are dead, we win. You are blatantly ignoring the fundamental contradictions in your arguments, and ignoring the points I make about you. There is no way you could be anything other than the scum.

And you just said I made a contradiction, what was it? Please do tell. Does 1+1 not =2 anymore?

[foilist13]

Jesus Christ Crimmy, you've ignored everything I am telling you.

Obviously that is one of the two possibilities of equal likelyhood, however it relies on a 1 to 24 chance for it to be true. Do the math my friend.

[foilist13]

@Kyiv - Crimmy has brought up no scum tells against me or Jackabomb. It is mathematically impossible for the scum team to be anything other than foilist13/jackabomb or Crimmy/Dimaba.

I have made several points.

1) There is a 24 to 1 chance that the scum team is Crimmy/Dimaba.

2) He is ignoring arguments, and pressing the original point, which is simply the statement of the situation we are in.

3) He is claiming false contradictions.

4) Dimaba has been scum lurking since day one.

That last post was the most damning one yet.

That is what I have been saying since the beginning of this debate Crimmy.

You are posting from the assumption that you are town, which is a given in every post, and you are basing your entire argument on it. That is no point at all.

You've lost, you've admitted it. We all know that you are the scum.

[foilist13]

Jackabomb, I don't know if you've realised this by now, but we are in the same situation as crimmy and dimaba. We know who the scum are, it's crimmy and dimaba. We can therefore use those same arguments ourselves.

@kyiv - for the love of god unvote until te debate is done. If you want to sign away the town then feel free. Our votes aren't important, yours is.

I have brought up scum tells and simple math against them, and you have refiluted some of it, but there is nothing to indicate that me and jackabomb are the scum. You are under the impression that claiming a pr makes you confirmed town. I don't know if you've been paying attention to the content of te debate, but they are pr's and I'm claiming they are scum and there are no pr's, which is a hell of a lot more likely.

I did factor in the things you said into my math the first time. It's 24 to 1 vs 2 to 1. I don't understand how you aren't looking at it. Yes it

could

happen. I might win the lottery tomorrow, but I wouldn't bet my lylo lynch on.

If you disagree with the way I would play doc on lylo, then there isn't anything I can do about that. That is a game theory debate, but personally I think getting you to 3 town 1 scum from lylo would be a good move, in spite of the risk. A pr claim does not a townie make.

[foilist13]

You actually did quite well Crimmy. You beat me

Scum will try to get you flustered, not necessarily to sway your vote, but to make you look scummy, or make your arguments look bad. I like how you handled that.

Ah, I had my hopes so high going into Lylo. We had actually planned on claiming cop and doctor ourselves, but we all know how that turned out.

Excellent game guys. I look forward to playing more games with you in the future

[foilist13]

@Kyiv - I would have gone after you with everything I had, and hoped to high hell that they didn't figure out the role claims made it impossible for you to be scum. At that point it really would have been game over though, but I would feel I was cheating you if I did not do my best.