Open 186; Jungle Republic (Game Over)

[dank]

vote: CKD

cause bandwagon.

[dank]

unvote, vote: saber

[b/]

for a bigger bandwagon.

[dank]

unvote, vote: saber

for a bigger bandwagon and clearer vote.

[dank]

unvote, vote Saber

Play to win or GTFO. That post has "policy lynch me" written all over it.

Are you not voting on the same "policy wagon" as we speak, because his post was begging for a policy wagon? Why's it wrong for lynx but not you?

[dank]

/do you have an issue with policy lynches? Since I notice on a clearer readthrough that you never really say you're against them, just the fact that lynx is denying thats what a saber vote is.

Oh lookey, its 3:30am.

[dank]

unvote, vote paradox

for not posting since p1.

I don't like the wagon growing on saber. imo, we can get a better read on him if we analyze his gameplay and his arguments during the game, not tempt him to do another one of his stupid gambits. I think putting him in a self-hammering situation when he's certainly done stupid things like that before is starting to get a little scummy.

[dank]

twas L-2, ckd

[dank]

In a way, L-3 is L-1, because if two other people voted saber he was planning on self hammering.

[dank]

That's pretty much irrelevant though. saber stated he has asked permission to self-hammer and if one more player voted for him he was going to do it. That's basically L-1 and that's all that really mattered.

L-2 is not L-1. Saber has since said that he was not going to gambit this game and has repeated that multiple times (though I agree, his word can't really be trusted).

Nonetheless, I dont like how you're sitting on the sidelines, not voting anyone, yet throwing out silly accusations like putting someone at L-2 is "basically" putting someone at L-1. Do you think this was scummy? If so, why aren't you voting them? Why aren't you voting anyone?

unvote, vote: hewitt

[dank]

saber, lets give usefulness a try.

who do you suspect, based on their reactions so far? Everyone's put in a fair deal of posts by now, so if you're going to try in this game, could you point out anything you've noticed/that's stuck out in the last few pages?

[dank]

twas L-2, ckd

if it takes 7 to lynch and he had 6 votes...what am I missing?

We had 5, check the vote count directly above your unvote post.

That said, bigmc's vote was not L-1. However, his assertion that he "missed" MR's vote is a bit suspicious, and could be a good excuse to put saber in a quick lynch position. Nonetheless, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, since its early in the game, and most of us aren't being all that careful with our votes either (we're just out of rvs).

[dank]

Nonetheless, I dont like how you're sitting on the sidelines, not voting anyone, yet throwing out silly accusations like putting someone at L-2 is "basically" putting someone at L-1. Do you think this was scummy? If so, why aren't you voting them? Why aren't you voting anyone?

I don't really care if you think I'm sitting on the sidelines and I've already answered why I'm not voting yet. But I'll restate it since you apparently missed it, I don't vote until I think I've found scum. Very simple.

That said, bigmc's vote was not L-1. However, his assertion that he "missed" MR's vote is a bit suspicious, and could be a good excuse to put saber in a quick lynch position. Nonetheless, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, since its early in the game, and most of us aren't being all that careful with our votes either (we're just out of rvs).

What is with your constant defense of saber? Why do you want a player who's going to probably act anti-town in this game anyway?

The case on saber was weak. I've no problem with pressuring him to focus on this game with a few votes, but seriously pushing a saber lynch this early using this weak a case on him is borderline scummy.

Also, i'm against lynching lurkers just for lurking, i think thats just common sense. We've got plenty more to go on than that.

Would you like to lynch saber for the sole reason that he's "going to probably act anti-town in this game anyway"?

[dank]

Nonetheless, I dont like how you're sitting on the sidelines, not voting anyone, yet throwing out silly accusations like putting someone at L-2 is "basically" putting someone at L-1. Do you think this was scummy? If so, why aren't you voting them? Why aren't you voting anyone?

I don't really care if you think I'm sitting on the sidelines and I've already answered why I'm not voting yet. But I'll restate it since you apparently missed it, I don't vote until I think I've found scum. Very simple.

That said, bigmc's vote was not L-1. However, his assertion that he "missed" MR's vote is a bit suspicious, and could be a good excuse to put saber in a quick lynch position. Nonetheless, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, since its early in the game, and most of us aren't being all that careful with our votes either (we're just out of rvs).

What is with your constant defense of saber? Why do you want a player who's going to probably act anti-town in this game anyway?

The case on saber was weak. I've no problem with pressuring him to focus on this game with a few votes, but seriously pushing a saber lynch this early using this weak a case on him is borderline scummy.

Would you like to lynch saber for the sole reason that he's "going to probably act anti-town in this game anyway"?



Also, i'm against lynching lurkers just for lurking, i think thats just common sense. We've got plenty more to go on than that.

[dank]

I was reading everyone's posts. I read all the posts, though I was on my phone. When I got home later,

I voted after reading the new posts and seeing no one else had voted for SW.

really? Within the 50 minutes prior to your post, MR placed a very bad looking "lets see you hammer yourself vote on saber" taking him to L-2, and minutes before your post, I unvoted because I felt the wagon was growing too much for just pressure, and said I wasn't too happy with it.

And yet, nothing happened before your post?

My issue isn't that you may have simply not been paying much attention at the time; like i said before, few people are careful throwing out votes at that stage of the game. What's caught my attention is how you're trying to make excuses for it that are backfiring, and refusing to admit that you simply weren't paying attention and it was a bad move. You're trying a bit too hard to cover up and qualify the mistake, like you're overly concerned with looking town.

fos

[dank]

You're saying that you stay alive till the end as scum. Do you play those games like you play this one, and be so obviously antitown that town doesn't want to go through with the lynch and ignores you?

So, you're supporting what lynx said earlier and building a case for your lynch? That's your defense, then?

[dank]

How in any way does that put us down?

Do you intentionlly attempt to provoke players as both town and scum equally?

yes, almost all the time. It's actually amazing how pro-town it actually is when you see the results, even if in the very short run it does not appear to be so.

Aren't the results a scum win 6 out of 6 times?

If anything, if you're town in a game, you're giving the town a huge headache, and if you're scum, you're setting yourself up nicely. There is nothing pro-town about it.

[dank]

..or wins you games as scum?

[dank]

thats where you're wrong. I come off as scummy, but it engages a load of discussion and shows sides very quickly.

and it apparently that discussion doesn't show sides very quickly, if you're slipping by as scum 100% of the time, does it?

[dank]

thats where you're wrong. I come off as scummy, but it engages a load of discussion and shows sides very quickly.

and it apparently that discussion doesn't show sides very quickly, if you're slipping by as scum 100% of the time, does it?

who says I play all scum games acting scummy?

How in any way does that put us down?

Do you intentionlly attempt to provoke players as both town and scum equally?

yes, almost all the time. It's actually amazing how pro-town it actually is when you see the results, even if in the very short run it does not appear to be so.

apparently you.

[dank]

A town player has very little reason to use saber's strategy at this point in the game; it creates a confusing kind of discussion that, as saber already admitted, lets the scum causing the whole thing to slip through. A town player has no motivation to do this, a scum player has all the motivation in the world.

Saber's trying to tempt the town with his lynch so much that the wifom it brings simply causes the town to largely ignore him the rest of the way, paving the way for a smooth ride as scum. Its an excellent strategy for scum to use (as saber shows gallantly with his scum record), and a nonsensical one for a townie use (as saber shows gallantly with his scum record). Its a smokescreen on the town, and the one blowing the smoke probably has something to hide.

unvote, vote saber

[dank]

hewitt- what made you change your mind? Your post a few pages (122) back was:

If I wanted to lynch saber I would be voting him. I don't think we should be putting pressure on saber because it's A) annoying B) is going to take up a large part of the day probably and C) means that any player that has a reputation for acting anti-town (zwetschenwasser, Empking, Mastin) should be pressured like this and it's honestly going to do nothing to help or progress the game in a healthy manner.

However, I do understand why people would put pressure on saber, he is acting anti-town. But just because I understand it does not mean I agree with it.

You went from wanting to look past it to not condoning it. Why?

[dank]

I believe I spoke out against your lynch in one post many pages ago, does that make me one of your most outspoken defenders?

Since then, you've brought up your record and pranced around about how invincible you are with this smokescreen of yours, and i've explained why I chose to vote you. What exactly is your question?

[dank]

I hope you realize "you just don't understand!" isn't a very convincing defense. Unless you explain in much more detail why you changed your mind about saber, I see your vote as an opportunistic wagon jump (or perhaps even a bus). You've lurked all day refusing to have input on anything, then finally jump in without any justification to place an L-1 vote. I think saber's top priority for today, but you're not far behind.

[dank]

where did you clearly state them? Please quote the clearly stated reasons.

[dank]

He came into this game and made himself stand out.

Why is this scummy? Why would mafia stand out?

To me, personally, it was annoying.

Does annoying you make someone mafia?

"lynch me, I've self-hammered before, look at my other games where I played this way and came up town, oh you guys will be sorry, wait no this is just a bet."

Why is this something scum would say?



I understand that you're new here, and the fact that you have so few posts on the site calls for a bit of leniency, but you're going to need to explain why you're doing what your doing. Your vote on saber looks horrible, and you have not contributed much at all since then. You try to offer an explanation here, but I did not find it very revealing. Answering the above questions will help.

In addition- who else do you suspect?

[dank]

Scott, what cases did saber make that you thought were valuable?

[dank]

The reason I said A and B are scum was to generate discussion. Obviously there are more than two scum, but there are two werewolves, and I wouldn't put it past them to be buddies. Kill the werewolves, kill the nights. Lynx seems very focused on protecting MC, and I don't see that kind of attitude towards any of the other players, so I'm assuming Lynx is a werewolf. That would also place MC in the werewolf category. I would place MR in the mafia group, for overall lurking and not being very helpful, along with a badly placed vote with no good reasoning. I'm still Deciding on who I think is town from the rest.

If this is the reasoning those not voting saber say he's contributed lately that make his lynch unwarranted, then there is no reason why saber has not been lynched yet. His input in this game has been close to useless, and he is once again hopping on a growing wagon to spread the attention away from him.

I'm having a very hard time seeing an MR lynch over Saber at this point- MR seems like a new player tripping up a bit. The above post has Saber taking advantage (oh, the irony!) of a way MR worded something, that somehow makes him lynchworthy, which i find ridiculous.

Saber- what do you think MR just admitted to that makes him worth a vote?

[dank]

Saber- what do you think MR just admitted to that makes him worth a vote?

[dank]

And you're not tripping up, you've made it very clear that your smokescreen is intentional. I'm voting you because i think that smokescreen is scummy, because I think you have not contributed much of anything useful to this game (your cases are garbage), and are jumping on any wagon that seems to build up steam and take attention away from you.

There's no reason in my mind why you should not be lynched today.

[dank]

Saberwolf's cases remind me of watching Glenn Beck.

[dank]

A one liner reference that you don't understand is basically all those three cases deserve.

[dank]

Sorry, hit post too soon.

Do I think SW is scummy? Yes. Do I think MR was particularly scummy before he asked for a replacement? No, I had a null read on him. But the fact of the matter is he flaked as soon as he had a load of pressure on him, and that is scummier than SW's hot-and-cold play thus far.

Or.. he's an obvious newbie to the game, and after Saber and others jumped all over him, he felt overwhelmed? I thought it was pretty obvious that's what happened.

Tell me, he's said he's new to the game, and everyone could tell. It was also plainly obvious he got overwhelmed towards the end. Why would scumNoob MR replace out in that situation while townNoob MR stays in? Explain that please.

You're somehow saying that means he's scum, which is both ignorant and taking advantage of a situation. Sounds like you want to lynch MR quickly before he even gets a replacement, simply because he asked for one.

Oh, and please give me an example of saber's hot play, since he's been so "hot and cold". Interesting underhanded defense of his play, back it up.

major FOS bigmc

Saber goes today. You're very high on my list tomorrow.

[dank]

Note that besides me and lynx, no one even acknowledged your cases.

If anyone besides saber actually supports what he is saying and would like to know why I disagree, I can explain it. Explaining to someone who will be lynched today why his cases suck, I see no reason to do. Even you, saber, I think can figure out why.

[dank]

lol, Saber, you are not one to learn from your mistakes. Why waste my time?

And, the case on you doesn't need anymore explanation, its been beaten to death by now. There are just a few people who, while they say agree with your lynch, refuse to put up the final vote or two. Its practically unanimous that you're scummy and lynchworthy, its just been dragging on for too long (the reasons for this will be examined in more detail tomorrow).

Explaining your cases' flaws is not only a waste of time because you'll be lynched, but because they're plainly obvious (again, the town's ignored them for a reason). Why not ask the rest of the town what they think, since you're looking so desperately for helpful input?

[dank]

Also- V/LAish till friday. Got 4 finals in 4 days coming up.

[dank]

@dank
You really need some explaining to do. First of all, you state in post 67 that you don’t like the growing wagon on SW. Either I can’t read or you need to explain your vote against Saber, because I think it said something that you wanted a bigger wagon.

Post 67 is self explanatory, it is never a good idea to give someone who self hammers a chance to self hammer on page 3 (I believe Saber was at L-2 there). In general, I dont like such big bandwagons in the first few pages, as they have all the makings of a quick lynch, and it doesn't give us much to analyze a player on, which is a bad place for town to be with two scum groups on day 1.

Secondly, you stated that you didn’t like the growing bandwagon. Heck, you even call it scummy to put him so close to L-1. However, you don’t look at those who have voted SW. Why’s that?

Erm, its page 3, and we're just just getting out of RVS. There isn't exactly much to analyze at the moment.

And last, your vote against Paradox. Three players hadn’t posted since page 1 at the time you made that vote: Scott, Lowell and Paradox. Why Paradox over the others?

Why Lowell or Scott over paradox? I can only vote one, right?
(I voted a player who's input I couldn't remember at all, and who was thus lurking.)

Wait, did I just say last? Sorry, I didn’t see your post after post 65. I’m talking about post 71. You just stated that you didn’t like the growing bandwagon. Yet, soon after your unvote, he gets put back at L-2. When somebody points this out, you just state that SW was put at L-2, not L-1. And that’s all you have to say after your comment of not liking a growing bandwagon on SW. This needs an explanation.

What would you like me to explain? I said I didn't like the bandwagon, and I pointed out an inconsistency. Would you like me to copy paste what i said 6 posts ago into 71, because it might not be clear enough?

Can you also explain why you voted Hewitt in post 76?

Um, because he was sitting on the sideline not voting or pursuing anyone, while throwing out silly accusations? I explained this in 76? Did you read?

Up next, post 120. Here you state that MR’s vote against SW was bad. However, right after her vote, you switched your SW vote towards Paradox as he hadn’t posted ever since page 1. What’s up with that?

You really want me to explain why "lets see you hammer yourself" is bad on page 3? Really? I switched to Saber in post 144, after paradox had made a few posts (besides, the support for a scummy player > someone who's lurking). Also, we now had 6 pages of info to go on for saber, at which point I felt comfortable about placing a vote on him, he'd well earned it by then.

As for post 144, I once again need an explanation. You state that SW’s ‘approach’ is causing the town to ignore him. But isn’t it so that SW has been the talk of the day? So please explain how the town is ignoring him.

sigh, did you read anything I posted? I said: "Saber's trying to tempt the town with his lynch so much that the wifom it brings simply causes the town to largely ignore him

the rest of the way

, paving the way for a smooth ride as scum."


Really not impressed with your questioning here, almost everything can be explained by just reading my posts, which it doesn't seem you did?

..back to finals! D:

[dank]

lol.

Once again, a few posts before I made my L-2 clarification, I said I didnt' like the bandwagon. I am not going to cry "DONT VOTE SABER!" every time someone votes him, they can do whatever they choose. I merely said why I was against it, people may listen to me or ignore it.

There is a difference between doing nothing but accusing people of more blame than they are post "L-2 is like L-1, you scum!", which is what hewitt was doing, and actually pressing someone, which is what my questioning of saber was.

MR's vote wasn't as bad as it looks now back then, because it occurred in RVC. As we proceeded out of RVC and MR chose to leave his vote there pages later, it began to look much much worse. Thus, it wasn't addressed till later.

Regarding paradox, I don't even know what to tell you. I voted a lurker as we got out of RVS. Apparently I voted the wrong one? Sorry?

My reasoning for voting saber have been expressed multiple times in multiple posts, and if you have no idea what that is, then you did a very poor job reading this game.

Saber throws around his smokescreen, basically begging for a lynch. People consider it on D1, eventually backing off thinking "he's acting too scummy to be scum, he has to be town", as some players here have already done, and that wifom causes the town the ignore scummy behavior for the rest of the game, giving him a smooth ride. Scum has every reason to use this strategy, town has none.

[dank]

Totally understandable. It was so not scummy according to you. I totally buy that:

Show me where I say it was not scummy. I said it looks worse and worse as time went on; it was a bad vote to begin with as anyone reading the game could see.

You're nitpicking my exact wording and trying to spin in, which is a sign that the case you're making doesnt have the content to stand on its own.

Same with saber, 6 posts prior I said what I needed to say. The fact that I didn't repeat what I had just posted in my next post, somehow gives you the ammunition to call it a scummy move?

I mean seriously:

Dank(1:35): Saber wagon doesnt look good.
BMC(1:44: Vote saber
CKD(2:09) Unvote saber. BC, you fool, you L-1'nd!
Dank(2:19)- a whopping 44 minutes after my last post): mistake CKD! It was L-2.

What are you trying to build out of that?

As far as voting saber, please actually read my posts in sequential order, and you'll see a logically flowing thought process that convinced me to vote saber. If you have a problem with it, please quote the posts in order and show me where one doesnt fit into the other. All you're doing is nitpicking little bits and trying to spin them, which isn't a very convincing.

"Oh, dank, you didn't have a problem with him begging before." What are you even trying to say here? Saber acted scummy from the start, show me one place where I sad saber was town. I didn't "have a problem with it" because there was a sizable bandwagon on him already, and it was far too early to seriously consider a lynch. I gave him time so we could analyze him, and he gave way more than enough reasons for me to support his lynch.


Sanhora: what do you think of saber? Besides asking him some questions before he left, you've hardly mentioned him, which is fairly ridiculous considering how scummy he was this game. It almost seems like you've been trying quite hard to build alternate cases on new people while ignoring the saber case. Why?

[dank]

Flava- please explain how hewitt has been "actively scumhunting".

[dank]

To answer your question real quick, I had the idea in my head that replacing under pressure is commonly thought of as a scumtell. I was obviously wrong, hence my unvote.

You've yet to actually say why its scummy, only that you thought it was. Are you saying that you vote people for things only because they're generally considered scummy by the rest of the town? That's a mighty safe way of playing this game.

It does not sound like you're interested in scumhunting, but rather keeping a "town" image and not doing anything that could stray from that. You made a vote, rather than defend it once pressure mounted, you simply said sorry, my b, if you guys don't think its scummy, then it isn't.

Anyway, i'm staying on the SW wagon for now, I don't think flava's shown enough to convince me to go elsewhere yet.

dana- who are your top suspects and why?

[dank]

Sorry for the lack of posting, haven't been online much.

I agree with lynx, I am perfectly fine with either Flav or MC for today's lynch. I also prefer Flav over MC; Flav's play has not been nearly enough for me to look past saber, but if most of the town is leaning MC, i've got no problem going along with that lynch instead.

[dank]

Lowell, can you explain "seeming to be useful"?

[dank]

Interesting, every other game i've played would lynch the player with the most amount of votes or whoever got there first if there was a tie at deadline, didn't realize this game was different.

Anyway, since the consensus seems to be towards MC, and Jazz's point is a pretty damning icing on the cake, i shall

unvote, vote MC

. No lynch is certainly not a good option.

Lowell- please answer the huge list of questions towards you, including mine on the last page.

Flava- what do you think about Lowell's ignorance towards the questions asked towards him?

[dank]

vote: Lowell

, to keep up pressure from D1. You've floated along without answering any of the criticisms against you, or really explaining much of what you're doing; that certainly warrants a vote.

Reread coming a bit later.

[dank]

I gave bigmc the benefit of the doubt in the early points of the game, just as I did saber. Its easy to look back on it now with mc flipping scum and calling me obvscum, but was my behavior towards mc really different than towards saber, or anyone else who did something scummy at the beginning? I noted his action as suspicious, and later things he did further added to my suspicion.

You know, my other posts on MC throughout the game.

Oh, well, you didnt really post them. It seems like you're trying to frame me as his buddy by using an early post where i excuse his behavior, and my final post where I vote him though he was my second choice.

You never seem to mention

I was reading everyone's posts. I read all the posts, though I was on my phone. When I got home later,

I voted after reading the new posts and seeing no one else had voted for SW.

really? Within the 50 minutes prior to your post, MR placed a very bad looking "lets see you hammer yourself vote on saber" taking him to L-2, and minutes before your post, I unvoted because I felt the wagon was growing too much for just pressure, and said I wasn't too happy with it.

And yet, nothing happened before your post?

My issue isn't that you may have simply not been paying much attention at the time; like i said before, few people are careful throwing out votes at that stage of the game. What's caught my attention is how you're trying to make excuses for it that are backfiring, and refusing to admit that you simply weren't paying attention and it was a bad move. You're trying a bit too hard to cover up and qualify the mistake, like you're overly concerned with looking town.

fos

or

Sorry, hit post too soon.

Do I think SW is scummy? Yes. Do I think MR was particularly scummy before he asked for a replacement? No, I had a null read on him. But the fact of the matter is he flaked as soon as he had a load of pressure on him, and that is scummier than SW's hot-and-cold play thus far.

Or.. he's an obvious newbie to the game, and after Saber and others jumped all over him, he felt overwhelmed? I thought it was pretty obvious that's what happened.

Tell me, he's said he's new to the game, and everyone could tell. It was also plainly obvious he got overwhelmed towards the end. Why would scumNoob MR replace out in that situation while townNoob MR stays in? Explain that please.

You're somehow saying that means he's scum, which is both ignorant and taking advantage of a situation. Sounds like you want to lynch MR quickly before he even gets a replacement, simply because he asked for one.

Oh, and please give me an example of saber's hot play, since he's been so "hot and cold". Interesting underhanded defense of his play, back it up.

major FOS bigmc

Saber goes today. You're very high on my list tomorrow.

or

To answer your question real quick, I had the idea in my head that replacing under pressure is commonly thought of as a scumtell. I was obviously wrong, hence my unvote.

You've yet to actually say why its scummy, only that you thought it was. Are you saying that you vote people for things only because they're generally considered scummy by the rest of the town? That's a mighty safe way of playing this game.

It does not sound like you're interested in scumhunting, but rather keeping a "town" image and not doing anything that could stray from that. You made a vote, rather than defend it once pressure mounted, you simply said sorry, my b, if you guys don't think its scummy, then it isn't.

Anyway, i'm staying on the SW wagon for now, I don't think flava's shown enough to convince me to go elsewhere yet.

dana- who are your top suspects and why?

Can't possibly let town forget how scummy my scumbuddy has been. Gotta make sure to push him to make even more mistakes, so that suspicion on him rises.

I was on MC throughout the day, and had we gone with saber/flava tonight, he would be my prime suspect on this day; I thinkt the posts I made in response to him make that clear. But of course you didn't quote those, because that makes your nice little argument look bad.

Yes, I wanted saber/flava over bigmc, because I felt the play there was so obviously scummy that we had a very good shot of hitting wolf or mafia.

Third/Fourth paragraphs, trying to send pressure in another direction for the next day (as we see in Dank's first post today).

this is an argument? I'm sorry for putting pressure on people? That's very mean of me? What do you even mean pressure in "another direction"? We were clearly lynching mc, you were my second suspect, Lowell was scumming up the last few pages, I directed questions at both. What is your point?

[dank]

Your FoS's prove my point even more. If I remembered them, I'd have looked at that just as much as the other posts. An FoS is a good way to show that you are looking in a player's direction, but really, it doesn't do a thing. Very common distancing tool.

If I am his scum buddy, why would I bring attention and make NEW points against MC to build a case against him, especially when saber's lynch looked like a sure thing at the time? How does that make sense?

You show 3 posts where you question BigMC. Raising points against him. FoSing him twice. But you didn't vote him once until it was the last possible option. And even in the post where you do vote him, you seem very reluctant to do so.

Because he was my second suspect, as i've said countless times. I wanted to lynch saber over MC, I felt that was the best choice for D1, but town wanted to lynch MC. So, we lynched MC, my second suspect.

Wait, if I was your second suspect, what changed to put Lowell above me?

You were my first suspect. I voted Lowell today to continue the pressure from yesterday which he never really answered. Since we have a new day, I figured i'd look at your play with a full day ahead of us to get a better feeling of your play, rather than basing it off of saber's scummy D1 like I had to do yesterday.

You could say i'm giving you the benefit of the doubt.

[dank]

It's called distancing. Especially when you aren't even voting him and apparently thought another lynch was sure to happen. If another lynch is a sure thing, there really isn't much risk in bringing up a few points on your buddy.

Why distance if it isn't being provoked? Why shift any attention at all to my scumbuddy when I wouldn't have to? In fact, besides saber, who did I post more about than MC? Do you think the posts I made make me more likely to be his partner than the people who hardly touched his case and largely ignored him?

If he was your second suspect, it seems like you'd be more ok with his lynch than you seemed to be. More of an "Ok, not a bad choice.", but your post had kind of a "this sucks, but whatever" kind of feel to it.

Where are you even getting this? The post right before that one, I say:

I agree with lynx, I am perfectly fine with either Flav or MC for today's lynch. I also prefer Flav over MC; Flav's play has not been nearly enough for me to look past saber, but if most of the town is leaning MC, i've got no problem going along with that lynch instead.

Clearly, i'm against MC's lynch?

Nice of you to buddy up to the guy who is attacking you right now, but it's a complete 180 from the stance you had when there was a wagon on me.

As I explained, D1, I have to base a large majority of your play on saber, because he was in there for a large majority of the game, and was the best lynch. D2, you're lucky enough to get a few weeks to build your own resume, so i've got no problem honoring that. If I want to lynch you today, it'll be much more indicative of your play, as opposed to yesterday being basically all saber.

[dank]

I'll ask again, Do you think the posts I made make me more likely to be his partner than the people who hardly touched his case and largely ignored him?

You seem to be making the whole case on me from not voting my number 2 suspect over the number 1, while building up both cases. The reasoning for keeping my vote on number 1 over number 2 seems to be pretty self explanatory, so I really don't know what else I can tell you about it.

Regarding my vote on MC:

You said:

If he was your second suspect, it seems like you'd be more ok with his lynch than you seemed to be. More of an "Ok, not a bad choice.", but your post had kind of a "this sucks, but whatever" kind of feel to it

I showed you a post where I said exactly what you would expect townMe to say if he was my second suspect ("Ok, not a bad choice."), and proved you wrong. Now, you're twisting that into being scummy as well?

And why this change from Day 1 to Day 2?

Because we were at deadline, with a few days to go, and saber being the best lynch based on the weeks of information on him. With many weeks to go until deadline now, there's plenty more time to analyze the replacement player.

[dank]

Lowell reminds me of saber now. He's acting suspiciously, but he hasn't infuriated me like saber into voting him.

Paradox, did you vote saber because he infuriated you? You were very certain of the lynch, asking people to go on and hammer, but was your reasoning for it just a policy-ish annoyance? I'm looking back on your posts back then, and while you do say his behavior is anti-town, I don't really see you arguing how scummy he is, just that you want him gone and would be happy with it.

Was your reasoning for saber just anger and annoyance at him? Do you think that's a good way to carry out a D1 lynch?

CKD: Riding my ass? I assume you mean feeding off of my posts, and not that I can remember.

One more thing I just noticed with a quick reread. Lowell's claimed that he's been on bmc before everyone else joined in, and never fell for saber's tricks.

Post 296:

I think saber's recent behavior deserves a lynch.

I'll give dan a chance to chime in, however.

Post 311

@ckd- saber has been an absolute disaster since the few pages when he was actually helpful. I'll hear out the replacement, but in general I'm not a huge fan of abandoning good wagons just to be nice to replacement.

Post 331

@paradox- I'm mostly just annoyed that when saber had a chance to do something useful, he basically absconded. A town player would be more likely to at least do something useful, even if he knew he was going out.

I'm not overwhelmed by Flave's entrance. In an early post he claimed to be skimming, his reread is scatterbrained, and his vote is now on the second vote leader behind himself.

Not once since the early pages where Lowell votes MC did he change his vote. The above posts I quote are interesting though; rather than push his choice of MC over saber, he seems to be supporting the saber wagon, even to the point of lessening the influence he thinks the replacement should have over saber's behavior. Why?

In a way, its the reverse of what Flava is accusing me of, minus actually bringing in new points. Lowell has his vote on MC, who we know is a werewolf, from the start, but seems to be reaching out to the other bandwagon to try to push it through anyway? These few posts differentiate him from others like CKD who were completely sold on an MC lynch. Lowell makes it look like he's sold on it, but why's he trying to help the other wagon at the same time? He even says "i'm not a fan of abandoning good wagons because of replacements" after saber is replaced. Lowell is not even on that wagon! He's had his vote on MC from the start! Why does he say this?

That all doesn't quite add up, and I don't think Lowell should be completely eliminated from werewolf possibility. He says how sure he was of the MC lynch now, but clearly tried to underhandedly push the saber wagon a bit when it was at its peak. Could be a clever wolf strategy to bus the partner right away, while seeing if town could go with someone else instead, but leave himself with enough credit to eliminate himself from consideration if the partner was lynched, like he was.. This, coupled with his silly idea with the pro-wolf seer hypoclaim makes me happy with my vote. I'd like to hear the rest of town's thoughts on these few posts.

Lowell- why did you make those posts that look like pushing a saber lynch, where it was clear you wanted MC gone?

Fitz- wanna say something useful?

[dank]

CKD: Riding my ass? I assume you mean feeding off of my posts, and not that I can remember.

will rephrase the question.

do you feel anyone yesterday thought you were scum?

Sanhora argued a case on me, i dont think anyone else mentioned much.

[dank]

This is one of those see-what-you-want-to-see situations. Had saber been lynched and he turned up werewolf, dank would proabably be saying "Oh look, lowell said he wanted saber but kept his vote on bigmc. Derailment!"

Reverse saber and bigmc, and that's 100% the case flava's making on me, which is the reason you're voting for me this very moment.

So, is the case on me (and the reason you're voting me) also one of these see what you want to see situation? Interesting. Clearly, you're saying these types of cases don't mean much. Why are you supporting one of them?

[dank]

sorry for the inactivity; just moved in and classes start tomorrow. I'll post soon.

[dank]

I banked everything on saber being gone D1. I would have been the first on bigmc D2, and pushed him hard. He was getting far too scummy not to bus. I thought I layed the groundwork well enough on D1 to look town going through and getting him lynched D2, since saber was just too scummy to ignore. Sadly, that misfired.

Meh.