Mini 914 ~ Mafia Reverberation (Game Over!)

[SpyreX]

/confirming with a vengeance.

[SpyreX]

Yea Porkens is WAYYYY offbase in his vote.

From the fires of heaven, I claim with the majesty of a thousand suns:

Incantum Zombie Murderer: VP Baltar

My dark red majesty will not be caught in your web of delicious SK lies this time.

----

That said, I think with a little bit of coordination this voting mechanic definitely can allow for some beautiful shenanigans. Theoretically, with a little bit of effort, we can lynch multiple people each day - AND, if someone screws it up they're dead to rights the next day.

Of course, this can't be used later barring madness. Only early and/or after series of events come that cause a confirmed town block of even a marginal size to win.

However, the more important thing is that we can lynch scummy players all willy nilly. No picking and choosing.

Blood, sweet blood, for the blood god.

[SpyreX]

Jah's got it.

I'm TOTALLY gonna be that guy too: There's no fighting between "ohh snap X is lurking" and "ohh double snap Y is scummy" - they both dangle.

[SpyreX]

Jah's got it.

I'm TOTALLY gonna be that guy too: There's no fighting between "ohh snap X is lurking" and "ohh double snap Y is scummy" - they both dangle.

Although, it doesn't have to be L-1. Theoretically we could lynch 12 people if we wanted day 1.

[SpyreX]

Mmm, doublepost with an extra line. Who loves you mafiascum.

[SpyreX]

If its done early enough (and definitely not in that quantity) and people are paying attention near deadline any movement towards a swap can be dealt with.

Even without confirmed town utilizing this for 2-4 lynches instead of one has some advantages (even with, of course, the fact that if we frak up then game-set-match for scum MUCH quicker)

[SpyreX]

Well maybe if someone hadn't opted to davinci code his results from touching the zombie murderer we wouldn't have BEEN in that situation now would we.

Course a massclaim right now could solve that...right?

[SpyreX]

Assume the worst, plan for the best.

At minimum the ability to pressure lurkers and/or situations where we would want multiple people lynched and not having to him and haw about order is very nice.

[SpyreX]

Yes, this kind of setup really makes wagon analysis...different. It's still there and there are patterns but normal analysis gets chunked a little bit.

Realistically this puts the weight of the win in towns hands.

[SpyreX]

Theoretically, yes. However, with just A confirmed town it gets a little tricky.

Layout the numbers though - that may work.

[SpyreX]

Under the assumptions of: only 12 votes in play and the other theoretical alignments not being there (lyncher, etc) if there was someone who was SUPER TOWN (TM) and the votes spread on the other 11 it would require:

1.) someone putting a second vote on lynching someone and sparing everyone else.
2.) two scum voting the super town TM sparing everyone else.

I can't think of a scenario offhand where if it was that spread out where the scum could swap it for a win though.

Of course, that whole idea is boiling down to "pick a dude, hope their town, win" which is kinda scary.

I'm 100% behind multiple lynches though.

[SpyreX]

I'm not sure what to make of that vote there mr.

[SpyreX]

Well this game is sure off to a slow start.

While I don't mind preaching caution, to a degree, overall 51 gets me a little - probably because of its focus on the megapurge (which I highly doubt would happen regardless).

I'm firmly of the opinion that utilizing at least 2 lynches is going to be far more beneficial in most situations than a single and am expecting that to be the course.

I thought that SpyreX's response to 46 had a tone of "I know what your suggesting won't work, but go ahead and run around in circles 'till you figure it out on your own...meantime I'll be over here doing my own thing."

What?

I'm saying in theory with just A confirmed town a megapurge could work but, due to factors such as the above and the simple fact that scum would weasel somehow at least one member alive, it gets a little tricky.

However, if later we see a block of "more than lylo" "confirmed" (I'd say 4, just to account for an NK) then hells yes I could see doing a purge of the leftovers.

[SpyreX]

A consequence of that is that we're more open to attacks (i.e. attacks on either of our reasoning at any time) but that's a tradeoff we're willing to make.

Color me confused - why would you worry about attacks versus, ya know, finding scum?

Sure there is a bit of a issue with handling differentiating opinions when running a hydra but the idea of that being a high concern is just flabbergasting.

Unvote, Vote: Mighty Orbots

Ohh snap I'm doin stuff

[SpyreX]

@SpyreX, the advantages to the hydra with regards to finding scum are that we've got two different lines of reasoning that we know that we can rely on. The disadvantage that comes into play from having that going on publicly is that we will be more open to attacks. I think that's what I said in my previous post. It's curious that you're focusing on the acknowledged consequence rather than the benefits that were mentioned and that you're interpreting what I said with my last sentence to be an indication that I find it to be a topic of high concern.

Its the fact that is the area of consequence you are focusing on that rubs me the wrong way. Maybe,

maybe

, its a simple difference in approach but running a hydra as town I wouldn't ever worry about opening up for attacks.

As scum? Hell yea.

Of course, I wouldn't say that as scum so... ?

I'm making a note of it for now.

-----

But, because its time to shake the dew off this lilly:

Incantum Cowardice: Sotty

And, for a little more of that black magic:

Incantum Nocturne Deus: Sotty

:gasp:

[SpyreX]

BEHOLD.

I AM A POWERFUL WIZARD.

[SpyreX]

I've just always wanted an excuse to use that line and it worked so perfectly here that I just haadddd to do it.

Even if its not the "right" move at this point.

However, perhaps the rats will a scurry forth and speak. Or be smote.

[SpyreX]

I thought about that VP annnd well:

(W) Win Condition. You win when all other factions have left the game and one person who shares this Win Condition is alive, or nothing can prevent the same.

See, helping the reporter if one exists doesn't hurt me. Its dealing with those light side namby pambies that is the big one.

Basically, helping them EARLY works out a-ok because they win, tighten the scum pool, etc. Its gonna be if we wait until late when helping them with no scum left means a loss.

So, yea. Not too worried about it.

Of course, powerful wizards aren't worried about much.

[SpyreX]

However, if your removal from the game would cause the Dark Win Condition to be fulfilled, you will exit the game and lose.

I'm reading that as if the only two factions remaining are Town / Reporter well, yea, the Reporter is boned.

However, if the Reporter completes their wincon while the town wincon still isn't completed, free game.

[SpyreX]

:O

So... I'm not only scum, but I'm scum WITH SC?

I am a powerful wizard. My transparency is just an invisibility spell, nothing more.

[SpyreX]

And, no, being a doublevoter doesn't make me automatic town.

However, regardless of alignment there's no way I could hide that. Its too much fun.

[SpyreX]

Not to dance on the upcoming wall of fighting but....

what attention on me?

If anything this game has been fairly blaze. Thats why I had to pull out the necronomicon, afterall.

[SpyreX]

I guess?

Anywho, I'd be reminisce if I don't find it a little humorous / odd that the entirety of your wagon has some bad mojo vibes to you now.

[SpyreX]

reminisce?

God what's wrong with my brain.

I'm old. OLLDDDD.

F---

[SpyreX]

To be fair, I -did- think about doing it to Rhinox or (as the great comedy option) Porkens as well.

Sotty was just a bit off - I don't mind questions, but those early posts weren't giving me those sweet home vibes. And, really, this Porkens-gate is a hoot and a half and I still can't figure out what Sotty is goin on about.

So, its not quitteeee "lol, reactions" but I've opted to chill a bit more this game than the last few where I've played like los garbageos.

So, a pinch of reactions, a dash of giggles and a spoonful of gut is all a POWERFUL WIZARD needs.

[SpyreX]

Well, we win without them winning and if you're going down the road of "reveal roles to get the reporter out of the game" then you're going to end up forcing many more claims to acheive that because we don't even know what a hypothetical reporter would need to exit the game.

Less of a "Lets help the hypothetical reporter win!" and more of a "If they exist and we CAN help them win while doing the important stuff, no sweat off my back".

In general when there are third parties I can work WITH versus worrying about working against I prefer the former. (Although, realistically, with the number of players and the number of factions I wouldn't lose sleep over the possibility of a reporter - in fact, I think I'd prefer a reporter / town / scum setup over the others by a decent margin).

'cept zombies.

Beautiful, captivating zombies created from the loving hands of DGB that make one lose sight of everything else.... mmm....zombies.

Spy, don't you think it would have been better to place your double vote after you had a more solid read that just gut? I mean, for all intents and purposes that single vote makes Sotty much more lynchable than anyone else for the rest of this phase.

More lynchable by one. I mean, my other vote can move around AND as we sit the Purge threshold is so high that, honestly, if that vote becomes a rationale for a wagon that means either a.) Sotty continues down the madness hole and needs to be lynched anyways or b.) we lollygagged SO MUCH that the threshold got that low which would make a POWERFUL WIZARD cry tears of blood.

[SpyreX]

You better not be scammin' me AGAIN this game I swear to god. Bein' all reasonable and stuff.

It was impetuous - like I said, gut, giggles and reactions.

Although, maybe this will help me be a helper with getting more people lynched.

See, thats what POWERFUL WIZARDS do. They are helpers.

[SpyreX]

To be fair I totally would pull A stunt as scum or third party.

However, a couple questions for one Juls:

1.) If my nefarious scheme was to setup for a "hey lets pick a small group and kill the rest day 1":
--- Why would I blow my cover this early?
--- How would using a doublevote to push it up help? I'd have to get myself in a position where I was one of the cool kids, time it close enough to lynch that I didn't get busted AND blow enough smoke that leaving 3 people left would be A-Ok.

2.) If you are certain Rhinox is scum via :vomit: meta... why in the name of pete are you voting for me?

[SpyreX]

... zoraster IS in this game.

The things you learn.

Yohooo

[SpyreX]

Spy, I am not voting Rhinox on meta because I will try to get more evidence of the same before doing so. The reason I voted for you (and to answer your question) is that you were encouraging the plan to mass lynch. If I were a doublevoter and town were considering this. I wouldn't "out" myself and say "wait wait...double voter" but I also wouldn't encourage it. I would probably skirt the issue and give it little to no credence.

Except for I am encouraging multiple lynches - not a mass lynch at this point. IF we end up with a "confirmed" block that's a different story.

And, in the scenario layed out if thats before lylo all I'm doing is guaranteeing my lynch the next day. POWERFUL WIZARDS know better than that.

Spy, is your double vote passive or active? I.E. do you always double vote, or can you control both votes independantly, change them whenever you like, and apply them to different players?

Its on the front page, sheeeeshhhh. But, just to be clear that secret vote stays there this incantation. My other vote is free to move.

[SpyreX]

To be quasi-fair it WAS in response to a prod as per the mod.

That doesn't change the fact that I wouldn't cry if we double string them up.

All in all I'd like to see some more chatter before the purge number starts driving US versus the other way around.

While I am pro-Jah's lurker callout in general I get that itchy feeling since it was laid out as more than a simple callout but didn't have its buddy a vote attached. Which, unless I'm missing something, is still sitting on a random.

[SpyreX]

POWERFUL WIZARDS are above things like choice or apathy.

We just have blood lust.

Its a little from column a, little from b. I'm not sold on the whole SC / Porkens are scummm business.

However, this zoraster wagon while starting on the right feet seems to be pushing under its own weight and that bothers me.

[SpyreX]

I don't know why this is driving me nuts but it sure as hell is at this point:

The idea of a mass-purge (more than 2-4 lynches) is, was, and will be theory talk. I don't expect it to happen. I dont

want

it to happen.

Unless we run into, like I said:

However, if later we see a block of "more than lylo" "confirmed" (I'd say 4, just to account for an NK) then hells yes I could see doing a purge of the leftovers.

My heckles are arisen. POWERFUL WIZARDS aren't ones to have heckles raised without dire consequences.

Did you mean VP and Zoraster? This seems like an out-of-nowhere comment.

No, BC and Zor. As in the "haha, look we voted a lurker and they showed up muahahaha" vibe I was expecting. I was just clarifying as a wink and a nudge that there was a prod that may have influenced it.

However, even with the above watchin them dangle wouldn't bother me.

I think it was SC / Spy scummm.

I may be misreading the Porkens part, but she's been pretty clear on SpyreX = town, SC = scum.

But, so it goes.
---

Ready for an interesting revelation?

If we see a scum doublevoter I'd put hard money on one of, if not both, Sotty and Zoraster are scum.
Why that is I'll leave up to the mysteries of space and time.

But, lets play lynchin' time!

I would lynch the following as of this point

Zoraster
Jazzmyn
Sotty
Rhinox

I absolutely would not lynch today:

Mighty Orbots
Porkens
SC

Maybe later I'll clear up the series of questions that should spawn.

[SpyreX]

So by that logic, Sotty's above reaction was fishy, and you wouldn't argue against a Sotty wagon. Except you did when it happened.

Sotty looks hypocritical and scummy here.

I like this.

That's not how I understand what she's been saying. At the beginning, she thought Serial was trying to deflect attention away from you, his buddy. Since then she's "not sold on Spy being scum", which I interpret as indecision.

Well, yea. Of course that indecision is on the townside but.

OH GRATE POWRFUL WIZERD SPRYEX

What happened between these posts?

Ready for this?

Nothing. :O

The wagon bothers me. However, the play also bothers me.

When in doubt, let God (OR POWERFUL WIZARDS) sort it out.

Rhinox may have a decent point about purging multiple people simultaneously. But I don't think that the advantages of single-purging outweigh allowing the scum one kill per purged person, assuming the scum can kill.
And as far as town PR's go, keep in mind that Vi is the mod. If there's a cop, the entire scumteam could be investigation-immune.

Yes and no.

Multiple lynches, again, put the weight in the town hands. Not the PR's, not the scum, just flat out good ol fashioned scumhunting.

As long as there are multiple people that need a ropin', I am totally for multiple people getting a ropin'. Day 1 or Day 10000.

[SpyreX]

So what happens when POWERFUL WIZARDS can't seem to make up their minds?

It's not really a "make up mind" kind of thing.

I don't like the shape of the wagon.
I don't like the play of the player.

The first could be a million things that don't make the player not scum for it.

[SpyreX]

? Makes sense to me.

I approve of it, overall.

[SpyreX]

...

I guess I'm retarded. I blame the lack of sleep. Some work days I swear.

I thought that it was lynch all THREE of them, which makes sense to me.

The vote and wanting them cross-voting? No that doesn't make as much sense.

[SpyreX]

If I was a dayvig, would you tell me to not take a shot day 1?

[SpyreX]

Yes I am fully aware of the difference.

However, when you've approached this from an informational aspect as part of the argument that has to be addressed. Especially the "helpful to the town" business.

As for the vigil is 100% aspect - this falls apart on both sides:

1.) You're claiming a vigilante kill is not influenced by the game as a whole via the whole "little chance of being driven by scum".
2.) You're claiming that a vote, somehow, is inherently more manipulated. The same argument that applies to the vigilante being 100% town to themselves applies to my vote(s) being 100% town.

However, my biggest issue with this condemnation (aside from the whole self-serving side) is the fact that I can't wrap my head around what new mysterious powers to manipulate a lynch scum possess with multiple lynches versus a single one.

If anything, the fact that multiple lynches CAN occur is a town gain - competing wagons can be analyzed simultaneously versus allowing for two night kills to garner the same amount of data.

Then there is the added variables of "what do I do when my scum-bro is up for lynch" aspect. With the knowledge that, like I said early, being on a scum-lynching wagon isn't going to be as many near town points the bussing is less useful... but consistently pushing other canidates STILL will make you look bad overall. So, there is more indecision and room for error when the simple fact is the majority can eat the manipulations versus allowing another day to pass is A++ awesome.

And, if the final piece is that multiple lynches increases the overall value of a single vote well... good. Simple statistics again says that favors the town.

[SpyreX]

If you quote me, please quote me correctly. I said, "little chance of ultimately being driven by scum."

The ultimate decision to lynch is not necessarily in a townies hands. The ultimate decision to shoot someone as a vigil is. Yes, a vigil might be influenced by scum to shoot incorrectly. But that ultimate decision is not made by the scum.

And, again, a lynch based on more than "me too" has about as little chance of being driven by scum.

As for the ultimate decision to lynch not being in a townies hands? What?

The majority of any lynch is townies. The collective ability to move their votes IS just as much of a decision as would be me pulling my proverbial trigger.

I think the point above addresses this pretty well, but suffice it to say there is a definite difference between being the sole arbiter of who gets shot and being one of 3 or 4 people who are deciding to lynch someone.

Put yourself in a hypothetical: it's lylo and you could either have the normal lynch situation OR you could have a dayvig as one of the townies. Which do you pick? If you decide anything other than dayvig, you're out of your mind.

Yea I'd pick the dayvig.

No, that doesn't really alter anything we're talking about. Be it a dayvig shot or a lynch in that scenario the game ends on a miss.

Oddly enough :gasp: the multiple lynches could be used to really push that forward much like now.

I'm afraid I didn't understand this point. Can you clarify?

More lynches and more room for manipulating this mechanic creates more variables scum have to worry about. Its not a bus/distance mechanic.

Things like "Ohh, hey, if we all crosslynch each other except for X and if X is town then we win" don't happen in a normal day-night progression. Things like that, while being the real outlier case, are scary as hell for scum.

The fact that lurking becomes a much less viable tactic because at any point its easy enough to go "hell, lets take em all out" is scary for scum.

These are good things.

It increases the power of a single vote, but it decreases the interpretive power of each lynch.

Well, yea? Everything about this does that. Every day we don't get a lynch and the threshold lowers that happens. I'm pretty sure I said that the wagon analysis this game was bonked due to this.

Let me ask you this hypothetical (I know I'm going hypo heavy today, but whatever): Let's say we were playing a nightless game. Which would be more likely to lynch scum: each lynch sequentially or combining lynches? What are all of the reasons this is true?

I know that hypothetical is not analogous (a scum kill coming in between each is of utmost importance), but it does serve to examine some of the hidden principles underlying this idea of combined lynches.

I'm really not sure what you're aiming at here but if the goal is to lynch scum multiple lynches (raw statistics aside) have a better chance to lynch scum. (again, to that penultimate "lynch everyone but X, if someone votes for X, lynch the person that voted him, repeat ad infinum" setup). Also note, if at any point this game somehow we end up with some confirmeds yes I'll damn well push for a purge of everyone else including myself.

What is this hidden principle? I'm absolutely missing what you're aiming for. Give a tired, tired brother some bullet points on what the secret POWERFUL WIZARD conspiracy is.

on the flip side:

I am of the pretty strong opinion that we should not purge more than two players, at least for the first phase. Not knowing what will happen in the night phase is a big variable that I would like to see before we push more purges than that at a time.

That being said, zor's argument against it is silly. Zor, what do you think the probability is that scum could influence multiple purges effectively this early in the game when they are so strongly out numbered? My guess is that if the town gets at least on a somewhat correct path for day 1 (ie purging at least one scum), the other scums would have a hard time dealing with the situation in a way that did not make them stand out.

I'd push for three, I'm fine with two. The argument of the night-variable does a lot more for me than the information/?? is.

Going to start looking at the sotty case now, but I'd still like someone on the wagon who is around to help me understand the arguments better.

My dealio is the reactions to what happened. The reflective SC is scum and was doing that to push a wagon off me (but I'm townish?) still makes my teeth itch.

HOWEVER, shocking revelation, if it looks like we're only getting two (wussies) I could see shifting for a day...maybe.

[SpyreX]

I think the part of the zoraster case I originally liked is too dependent on intangibles, like his internet access and time spent on modding. His offer to be lynched, instead of lynching him and another person, also gives me pause. It sounds pro-town.

Now, THIS stunt I have pulled before as scum. (zor, not Jah)

Even so, it does give me some pause, but not enough to really worry TOO much about it.

[SpyreX]

I still do not understand this. At the time of your double vote she had said almost nothing other than questioning Serial about "why porkens". Had it been after her whole theory about you two being scumbuddies (but not really!) I could see your reasoning. As it is though, this seems like a bit of revisionism, which I hate.
*end momentary side track*

While I dig the dance, the tune is out of sorts. Allow me to play a hipper melody.

Before my votes, there was that little itch like thus:

Basically there is no excuse for lurking in this game. Not that there should be lurking in any game, but there you go.

With a game this complex it is good to get some level of understanding at the start. But still I think we should be careful about letting this become all about the set up and not about the actual game itself.

With that said, Juls, why did you incant Rhinox when we know he is V/LA?

Serial, why Porkens out of everyone?

As far as multiple purges go I think we have to be careful but I wouldn't be against purging two people at first and see where that gets us.

Enough for a POWERFUL WIZARD to unleash the darkest magics and see where it went via my giggles, guts, reactions vibe.

What happened after the fact was a wall of "well, that was a good idea SpyreX high fives all around"

That said, I'm gonna just go ahead a post some things. Guess who they're about and what we should do about it. Bonus points if you can guess what is missing.

I also like - very much - that the Game Mod frowns upon lurking and that the game has a relatively short activity requirement, as I really dislike lurkers and would change the site-wide mindset about not lynching lurkers if it was up to me. I am of the view that lurkers suck the life out of games and that the mindset against lynching lurkers gives far too much opportunity to scum to fly under the radar. So, I am hoping that this game, with its short activity requirements and its being non-friendly to replacements, will encourage everyone to participate actively and regularly.

Also, I can't make much sense out of the Sotty7 wagon being as large as it is. She seems to be one of the more active players so far, and I don't see anything with her posts/scumhunting. There isn't much to go on yet, but at least she's actively hunting, which is something I personally find difficult in the early stages of a game, so I'm not going to criticize her for it.

I do not yet have any really solid bases for great suspicion so far, but I also don't expect to get any really solid bases for great suspicion on Day 1. That said, I'm getting bad vibes from zoraster, BloodCovenent, and Mighty Orbots, but it's nearly all based on "gut" rather than on substantive evidence. I'm also suspicious of those on the Sotty wagon because I just don't see any legitimate cause for it. Her posts have not been scummy and her wagon looks contrived to me.

Again, my apologies, but I will get back into it in full swing this weekend.

Time keeps on slippin....

However, I will give that the *mysterious stranger* is mos def not scum with Sotty. That, if scum machinated, is a hand-wringing ohh snap I didn't lynch that townie dance versus anything fancy.

[SpyreX]

@Spyrex:

For the beginning of 231, I see what you quoted from Sotty as including two good questions that

could

open lines of scumhunting. If there's something suspicious in there, I don't see it.

For the stuff toward the end of 231, I was going to wait and see what happened "this weekend." The mysterious stranger has escaped most of my commenting, but not my attention.

I bolded the important.

There is a fine line between "useful scumhunting" and "saying non-offensive platitudes to appear to be scumhunting".

That was the initial itch. The after-vote stuff is very much more clean cut.

The weekend is upon us. POWERFUL WIZARDS demand tribute.

[SpyreX]

I don't understand why he would absolutely not lynch MO, Porkens or SC today.

Wow, that there done be some words.

This part I'll address specifically though.

MO isn't amount the M (Zor) but the O that I like. Something about the style seems mellow versus faked mellow at this point and the ability to jump right into the fire goes far for me with a day 1.

SC, realistically, pushing a decent push as a slam dunk that early with the high probability of backfiring doesn't strike me as a scum machination. Additionally, pushing the game forward when with a decreasing purge number being a nice bottle for the proverbial scum teat is a OK.

Porkens is the easiest. A POWERFUL WIZARD knows that unless he's playin' me like a pro that whole "Prove to me that you might not be town, sucker!" discussion makes about no sense unless one was going to think that both Porkens AND I were scum together. Which, as I am made from the purest black magics and awesome, we know isn't true thusly..

Jazz's wall o' texts needs some parsing but that's something. We'll see if it stays that way.

Spy this is the third time I am going to have to ask you, but what reactions out side of my own did you get from your double vote on me? You said that you did it partly for reactions, so what happened? Please stop ignoring me Sad

Yours were all I were really interested in at that point? The others are moot until there's a flip.

I really didn't think / meant to ignore that question though, ma bad.

----

Rhinox, well:

So, when I logged on, I was thinking about incanting Serial, since he's inactive and unhelpful. And VP's incantation made me like the idea even better, since two incantations is more pressure than one. But I feel like Porkens is at least as deserving of a vote from me here as Serial.

Woosh.

[SpyreX]

Um, what? Are you taking the line "fess up" in Porken's early vote seriously? Or the part where he asked you for an example of you "pulling a stunt" as scum? I think you're using wishful thinking if you see that as a town tell.

Kinda, I'm talking about this interplay:

Porkens: SpyreX is town, he wouldn't pull a stunt like that as scum.
SpyreX: Nah, I totally would do that either way.
Porkens: Do it. Prove to me you aren't town because of that.

Now, why in pete would scum want me to prove that I was scum?

I'm not sure why I should move my vote off Sotty, to be honest. I haven't commented on zoraster because I think it's a wagon based on very little (

intentional lurking

is barely a scumtell). Sotty didn't answer the strong point about her conflicting views at all well.

I'd have to vehemently disagree right thar'. I missed this before, but yea. Intentional lurking is bad news bears.

Wait, what is the scum teat in this analogy? Late incantations? Is this a town tell on SC, or a byproduct?

The scum teat is the fact that an apathetic town leads to a lower number necessary for a lynch - which lets wackier hijinks happen. Anything that is actively trying to push things forward in a direction versus stagnation in the early phase is a slight town tell. Of course, if Sotty flips scum its a bit more. If Sotty flips a scum PR its pretty much slam dunk.

I've actually been looking at SC as a possible lyncher.

I did forget about the lyncher but would you show your whole hand for half the cards necessary for the win?

Please explain with examples, how has Serial been pushing the game forward.

Hmm, perhaps with the vehement desire to get you lynched?

[SpyreX]

I (still) think the wagon on Sotty is weak, but I'm confounded by the players voting her. SC and Spy seem to be tunneling hard on the basis of things I don't think suggest a scum alignment. If either SC or Spyrex is town, and Sotty is too, I demand at least the right to say "I told you so" in the postgame.
I'm tempted to analyze her wagon (and those not on it) in more depth, but if she ends up purged, it might be better to wait until we've seen her flip.

This post really, really gives me that itch.

Maybe its the suggestion of me tunnelling.
Maybe its the I told you so.
Maybe, maybe, its the statement that he's going to analyze the wagon when...he just did since SC and I are the only ones on it.

Maybe its all three.

Maybe I can't decide who to lynch.

Which was followed by a complete fall of the face of the earth until he started getting votes.

Maybe you have a point.
Maybe you're exaggerating "falling off the face of the earth" to the point where your point bothers me.
Maybe the amount of time he was gone at maximum (3 days) was one whole day more than yours around the same time.

Maybe I like saying maybe.

Maybe we should be lynching some suckers instead of apathy wagons becoming the lynches.

Maybe if that happens I'll do everything in my power to power-lynch the people not on these wagons or taking concrete stances.

Maybe I still would like to see Sotty, Zor and Rhinox lynched.

[SpyreX]

I don't think there is a difference in power; check the OP after modifications to some roles.

That said I still don't like the dance, but it makes senseish.

I'm still not down with SC though. And still not Porkens.

Zor the magnificent and probably a Rhino would be where I'd go.

Since I can't vote for Zor right now,

Incantum: Rhinox

[SpyreX]

I am a POWERFUL WIZARD, not some namby pamby DARE Officer.

If "legit" reasons are more than just a gut feel, no. However, meta is delicious and all but I'm pretty sure its got too many carcinogens in it for me.

I'm willing to take the tsk,tsk if he gets lynched as scum but, no, not buying it. Especially if we're looking at only two today.

[SpyreX]

So we have a doublevoter and a one-shot doublevoter?

From my inklin' I doubt that is the case.

I'm not voting for Zor because I'm not pushing a wagon ahead when its team apathy hooo.

[SpyreX]

Overall?

It meshes. It explains some of that weirdness with the "if more doublevoters come out, then SpyreX isn't clearrred" business.

And some other things that POWERFUL WIZARDS know make me think that its a-ok.

Definitely enough to slide for now.

[SpyreX]

..Nikanor is in this game?

The things you learn.

Incantum Lazium: Nikanor

[SpyreX]

Meta?

I'm sorry, I can't do that Dave.

However, dancing aside I do agree with what Nik says. Jazz exploded with posts and then vanished again. Rhinox, well.

And I'm not vinegary, sheesh. POWERFUL WIZARDS exist outside the realm of normal taste-descriptors.

[SpyreX]

Sotty did you look at what I said in regards to the OP?

I be agreein' with you Nik. See my vote.

[SpyreX]

I guess not OP, but post two. Look there in the spots and tell me what you see

[SpyreX]

*relevant spots

[SpyreX]

Yes scotty without opening another whole new can of worms I think you're seeing what I am now.

[SpyreX]

I'm still not down with the SC a danglin'.

Zor, V/LA or no, has done little.
Jazz, much like I expected, went back to nothingland after the wallposts.
Rhinox, again, bags o nothin'.

[SpyreX]

The details fit in such a way that if you think I'm town (AND A POWERFUL WIZARD) Sotty deserves some lee-way.

That said, maybe I've had a bit too much to drink and its got my cackles a risen' and its time to lay down THE LAW.

We need to get on the ball. We're already down to less than it would take for a normal wagon and as things sit we're not going to get moving in the right way.

I'd bet CASH MONEY that within the subset of (Zor, Rhinox, Jazz) there is at least a scum. Maybe more.

Ideally, even though you all pish posh, all three of these would happen. Two damn well should.

Make it so. I'm tired of the apathy and the lurking in this game.

Spice it up with a rope or three.

[SpyreX]

My vote is on porkens, so that is your answer. Overall, I don't like porkens' apathy and willingness to lynch anybody without really giving reasons. nikanor is an improvement over nacho in terms of activity, and at least seems to be scum hunting. What I don't like is his appeal to his scum hunting history in order to support his cases, i.e. "I've only ever called people scum like this 4 other times and they were scum then so they're scum now". If his cases were strong, he wouldn't need his scum hunting history to support them. Its not enough for me to want to see him purged though - I'd rather let nacho return so I can actually get some answers to the questions I asked.

This. Really read this. Then, lynch Rhinox.

I could see mayyybe a SC-Reporter (thats way better than the lyncher line ps) but if that's the case who cares?

I'm gettin all itchy at any "ohh it might be this third party that isn't the scum that you REALLY need to be caring about but lets vote for him anyways even though we REFUSE TO LISTEN TO POWERFUL WIZARDS AND PURGE MAYBE THE GIANT BALL OF PEOPLE THAT SHOULD IN FACT BE PURGED"

[SpyreX]

@Mod: Is the current VC right? I haven't voted for Jazz...ever?

With so many tags in these vote counts, I was bound to mess up somewhere... Fixed with apologies. ~Vi

Incantum Shenanigans: MO

"But SpyreX you said he was town waaa"

Yea, but I do agree with VP after a reread about the lack of committal. Further, IF MO is scum then I'd be reallly surprised if zor was scum.

[SpyreX]

l-1?

Damnation. I need to go back to POWERFUL WIZARD COUNTING SCHOOL.

So, rhinox is at P-2
SC is at P-3
Zor is at P-4

Incantum Placeholder: SpyreX

Notice that I could have put 3 in the running and chose not to. Despite how much I want to eat the brains of 3 lynches.

[SpyreX]

Personally?

I'd like Rhinox and Jazz if we're too awesome for more than 2.

I can DEAL with MO / Rhinox because of the aformentioned read on Zor on top of all the other stuff.

[SpyreX]

Not having search makes me a little hesitant but the whole "WALLS O TEXT" after getting called out turing back into "WALLS O NOTHING" doesn't make me happy.

If I could puppy dog eyes you guys into three lynches that would be it.

[SpyreX]

I dig your style SC.

I think you know what you need to do.

Incantum Doombuckets: Rhinox

[SpyreX]

And now...we wait.

Let us summon a POWERFUL DISCO BALL

[SpyreX]

Who in the what now?

I still want Rhinox lynched. Why would I be moving my vote to save him?

[SpyreX]

I'll freely admit that I am ready for this day to end.

MO and Rhinox works.

[SpyreX]

So...

Rhinox is an A.) Marketing but not the moychendizer.

Huh.....

[SpyreX]

Papa Zito was interested in what SpyreX and Sotty7 were saying about being a double voters of potentially different strengths in large point because Might Orbots has a one shot double vote as well as another ability.

If it comes up I'll use that double vote to lynch Rhinox today rather than getting lynched if the game state doesn't change in a way that prevents it

, but I think the other ability will be the better one to use today all other things being equal. I say this now so that it won't be a surprise later if it comes up and to allow people to react if they'd like to.

This right there is an awesome little :headdesk:

Although, I swear I'm the only one that looked at the OP after Vi said what they said.

I officially throw my hands up. Lynch whomever, make this day end.

[SpyreX]

Needless to say at this point the ability to doublevote means squat in relation to alignment.

If anymore secret doublevoters want to pop out they might as well so we can go ahead and lynch one.

[SpyreX]

This is a fair point. Shall we all agree anyone hammering when they're at L-1 and an intended double lynch will 100% be lynched immediately the next day?

We needed to discuss this?

Yes, self-preservation isn't going to be winning any powerful town cred. It's a given. Just the fact PZ said it was damn near enough to make me want to lynch them.

At all the homeys (see doublevoters) in the house:

All of the possible abilities in the game are listed below.
Each ability will be preceded by "Once during the game" or "Once during each Incantation".
You may not use more than one (A) ability during each Incantation.

(A) Doublevote. You may place an extra vote against someone. You may not move it once placed, and it will disappear at the end of this Incantation.

I'm NOT going to get any more specific than this. These two pieces and one piece of information YOU have should be the realization that something is different than you think.

[SpyreX]

Well, if it wasn't FILIBUSTERING 3 TO LYNCH and someone was up for a lynch for a reason and powerbombed it and it wasn't scum (or maybe even a goon depending) you can guarantee all they've done is waste collabrative lynches, let the scum make a kill, and put it back in the same spot the next day.

Now, POWERFUL WIZARDS and all may, if the filibustering allows it, take someone into the burning hells WITH them but never to save myself just to get lynched the next day.

[SpyreX]

I'm more inclined to think that Rhinox is town considering he actually claimed.

These other two knuckleheads scrambling to save their asses, not so much. Both need to go.

Which two knuckleheads this time? I mean there's so many people I want to lynch I can't just narrow it back down to two.

Annnywwhooo, I'm not ignoring other things, I'm waiting for something to ripen and then maybe I'll have A SHOCKING REVELATION.

[SpyreX]

Alright I'll try to explain without going TOO FAR.

Once upon a time there was a POWERFUL WIZARD. He was given his powers by the grace of the Almighty Mod.

He looked upon these powers, and was joyous.

However, the voice of the Almighty Mod rung out saying (paraphrase):

"Some of the powers I have given have been changed."

So, a POWERFUL WIZARD meditated and saw the difference.

Where, once, a power said "Once per game" it no longer did!

A POWERFUL WIZARD became A POWERFULLER WIZARD.

And then opted to show those around him some of his powers.

Then, one stepped forward and said "I, too, am a WIZARD. Only a LESSER WIZARD, though."

I, with my infinite knowledge, lended my hand to this WIZARD and said "Be not afraid, for look and see that you are far more POWERFUL than you thought."

And it was good.

Then, yet another stepped forward and said they too were a LESSER WIZARD. And, again, I reached my hand out to help this WIZARD see their POWER.

Yet, I was rebuffed! Further, this WIZARD claims that the Almighty Mod said his, and thus all others, were LESSER. Further, this WIZARD opted to say that he would shed the blood of others without his own if challenged.

These things concern even the most POWERFUL WIZARDS.

Would the Almighty Mod lie to a POWERFUL WIZARD?

Would a PROPERLY EVIL WIZARD opt to not shed as much blood as possible?

Time is a factor. These questions keep us up at night. We fear the answers.

[SpyreX]

@SpyreX, I regret to inform you that if your role PM says you've got the double voter ability once per game then you've sqandered it and it is no more. The modular nature of the roles gives Vi the ability to make individual (A) abilities either once per game or once per incantation. It very specifically now says that the abilities will be preceded by either once per game or once per incantation. Both of my abilities are once per game. It seems that yours and Sotty7's were as well. Rhinox can likely share whether his says once per game or once per incantation but with moychendising it would almost have to specify the once per incantation option. I am sorry to hear about your misunderstanding though really the system as stated is pretty clear at this point.

Of course you don't need to believe me about this. You can clear it up by checking with the higher power in these parts if you'd like. Perhaps I've mis-interpreted what you've got to say but everything does fit together nicely now.

Except for the fact very specifically the words "Once per game" were removed from the A.) Doublevote ability specifically. Making it in line with the other abilities.

Why remove "once per game" if, in fact, the ability is still "once per game".

Incant: SpyreX

I can't leave this to where a doublevote hammer could happen right now.

[SpyreX]

Arrow Rhinox (P-2) ~ Nachomamma8, Herodotus, MO
Arrow SerialClergyman (P-4) ~ Jazzmyn,
Gammagooey (P-3) ~ Gammagooey, Porkens
Mighty Orbots (P-1) ~ Jahudo, SerialClergyman, VP Baltar, Sotty7
Porkens (P-4) ~ Rhinox
Sotty7 (P-4) ~ -INCANT-
Jazzmyn (P-4) ~ Gammagooey
Spyrex (P-4) ~ SpyreX

I think thats right?

[SpyreX]

@SpyreX, the once per game was removed from Post 2 so that Vi could put either once per game or once per incantation into the role PMs consistently. Further, you're almost certainly town, right now I'd prefer if you went with incant (or vote) no purge rather than incanting yourself. It probably won't matter but there's no reason not to take the safe route.

So, the mod removed "Once per game" so it fits into the other ones better when the others ones are all, based on what I see, once per Incantation?

Or, to put it differently:

After the game started, the mod declarified an ability to do exactly what it did before the edit?

----

And I'm not seeing how that Incant would use your doublevote. Hence me moving off so you can't throw the other one on.

----

And now I'm confused as all hell because I was PRETTY SURE that Sotty agreed with me before about understanding and now has went the other direction?

----

Needless to say if tonight a POWERFUL WIZARD kicks the bucket don't trust these "one-shot" doublevoters at all.

[SpyreX]

......

God in heaven, I think I may see what they are saying.

If thats the case I hate everything in the world because there's NO WAY I can check it.

[SpyreX]

I did PM the mod, thank you very much.

Although, in reality what I asked isn't concrete enough to say for sure.

I'm bitter at the moment and I better not take it out on this game.

[SpyreX]

Awesome I had a post and just copy/pasted it away.

I'll try again:

@Zor:

You've got two powers. You've said so.

Its hours before a lynch on yourself and you've opted to threaten earlier today to try and push Rhinox over versus...using your other ability in any fashion.

Why hasn't this even been brought up or discussed?

----

Keep in mind as it sits I'd give the chances of BOTH of these lynches being scum a million billion to one. Rhinox may be third party but definitely not scum WITH MO.

----

That still doesn't get me as much as this when I look at it:

I believe I see what you are driving at Spy. Talking about power difference right?

I thought you were just talking about the balance of power and how it works out if I'm only a one shot. I had no idea you meant that you thought suddenly you could use a one shot as many times as you like.

This is in response to my repeated saying "Look at the OP, you aren't a one-shot".

Now, if the case is that Sotty didn't think that was what I was talking about.... what OTHER balance of power is there?

Incant: Sotty

This is a much better place to park my vote because that really doesn't add up.

[SpyreX]

We're what? 2 hours from lynch?

Awesome.

[SpyreX]

Well, since its just you and I and everyone else has slacked off lets talk about that fullclaim.

(At this point between the two of you if I could arrange it I'd rather see Sotty go butttt).

[SpyreX]

My self-vote was just a placeholder FYI. I may be warming up to you but my vote there let you hammer with both votes.

[SpyreX]

Thats all awesome and all BUT want to weigh in on anything else goin on?

[SpyreX]

Hmm...

Maybe its just me but I'm not all that stoked about it.

Personally, I'd rather you use the DV on Sotty and make it a tri-lynch.

Of course, if Sotty is telling the truth about the DV AND is scum I think we're in a boat of boned at the moment.

[SpyreX]

SC you may be my bro but as is apparent in the last few pages giving me your vote is like giving a blind man the wheel - it may be hilarious, but its going to end badly and we all know it.

@Zor:

The issue with No Purge is that with this GLUT of doublevoters in a situation as silly as you AND sotty being scum my vote would be enough to let you jerks nolynch the day away.

----

I have a feeling deep in my belly we've got at least one person actively not talking. If we had search up I think there's a scum there.

And, AND, just to be awesomer right before deadline I still have an itch about Hero that I'd like scratched.

[SpyreX]

I was hoping it'd be something far more awesome than the telepathy (especially since it is so easily neutered since you have to be part of it).

You're right about the DV versus the telepathy as a function of time though.

[SpyreX]

And Zor you are right about the No Purge.

Stupid "rules" and "reading them".

I'm really good at that in case you hadn't noticed FYI.

[SpyreX]

Yea, lets make Sotty / Rhinox happen.

[SpyreX]

I cast both of mine in the same post, MO.

SC, if you can give another rationale versus "something truly fishy" about:

1.) The three doublevoters
2.) Agreeing with me about "power levels" and then saying "that didn't mean not one-shot"
3.) The large and copious amounts of activity.

I'll take it from any comers.

[SpyreX]

SC/Gamma/SpyreX/SpyreX - Sotty
Nacho/Hero/MO/MO - Rhinox

Is the only way with all the activity we have in this window we could do it I think

[SpyreX]

Ohh SNAP a VP has entered the dungeon.

SC damn well could have lurked through and dropping his vote OFF (if scum) really only makes sense if MO / SC are scum together.

We're not that good.

[SpyreX]

There's too much going on right now for me to TRUST this holding out right for 3 more days.

Rhinox isn't my first choice but acceptable.

BTW I think we have enough around now we COULD pull this together on almost anyone?

[SpyreX]

I dont suppose I could persuade with my awesome track record these last few pages the powerful last-minute Hero wagon on my pure gut?

Guys?

[SpyreX]

Not to mention at this point MO could have theoretically pushed for SC to get himself off the block and didn't... if either are scum, they're doing a good job messin' with my head.

In a PERFECT world I'd hold hands and will Sotty / Hero.

[SpyreX]

I didn't think so. Bunch of spoilsports.

So.... Rhinox / Sotty?

As of THIS MOMENT I'm pretty much opposed to everyone talking on this page

[SpyreX]

And it makes me a little cold and callous (not really because I do feel for them buttt) I wouldn't be opposed to a Jazz lynch either.

---

If we can AGREE I think we can make this happen and let you use telepathy.

[SpyreX]

Ohh thank heavens a VC.

Yea, we can totally make this happen if Jah / VP jump on Rhinox / Sotty.

[SpyreX]

Do you at least kinda vibe what I was saying about the weird voting patterns of SC/MO especially as deadline looms?

[SpyreX]

Hmm.. I REALLY had decent vibes from Nik. Nacho is a null.

If we could swing not "Rhinox/SC" I'd totally be down for that but who? If it HAS to be at least one of them I'd rather it be Rhinox.

[SpyreX]

(For the record this is my favorite time / type of mafia. Pure, unadulterated madness.)

OHH SNAP A PORKENS

Incantation:
Arrow Rhinox (P-2) ~ Nachomamma8, SpyreX, Herodotus, Mighty Orbots
Arrow Sotty7 (P-2) ~ -INCANT-, SpyreX, Gammagooey
Mighty Orbots (P-3) ~ Jahudo, SerialClergyman, VP Baltar, Sotty7
Porkens (P-3) ~ Rhinox, SerialClergyman
SerialClergyman (P-4) ~ Jazzmyn, Sotty7, VP Baltar
Gammagooey (P-4) ~ Mighty Orbots, Porkens
--NO PURGE-- (P-4) ~ VP Baltar
SpyreX (P-5) ~ SpyreX
Jazzmyn (P-5) ~ Gammagooey
VP Baltar (P-5) ~ VP Baltar

[SpyreX]

Ohh god thats totally not right. Stupid lines

[SpyreX]

Jazz or MO contributing to his lynch with a doublevote (which I'm not as cool with right now)

[SpyreX]

I'm getting this funny feeling in my belly we're gonna screw this up.

I dont like that.

[SpyreX]

Who'd gamma replace? Zor?

If yes I could make that jump over Rhinox

[SpyreX]

And don't you get all sassypants with me mr.

I said way back in the days before my apparent lobotomy that just this would happen and that it would, chances are, be bad.

Apathy caused this. Not me.

[SpyreX]

gam/Sotty

[SpyreX]

And we continue our standoff.

Looks like MO / SC / Gam don't want Gam gone.

[SpyreX]

Welp, that door is closed for now then.

I think its Rhinox/Sotty then.

Of course, the fact we can all agree on that is scary in and of itself.

[SpyreX]

At this rate we're gonna get a fat stack of nothing

[SpyreX]

Ohh hay

[SpyreX]

I dont think there's the right support matrix for SC even if I wanted to do it.

[SpyreX]

I was shot down on the Hero front and I'm a necessity for the Sotty lynch.

[SpyreX]

Ok, lets quit messin' around.

We can have makeout times AFTER we make sure we don't totally bungle this.

[SpyreX]

I just have those "I'm up for death and the course I've taken doesn't fit a scum MO" from SC.

BUT, if it gets it done I guess Sotty/SC? doesn't make me angry.

Although, if SC is town like I think you mr VP WILL GET YOUR OWN RUEING

[SpyreX]

Ok, ONE more person get on Sotty.

Then, you chuckleheads pick a direction and go for it.

P.S. declare moving to Sotty before you do

[SpyreX]

Disregard

Do what VP said.

[SpyreX]

Yes.

Now we need to take baby steps AND the website is starting to get its hiccups.

[SpyreX]

Done.

Get'er movin' boys

[SpyreX]

Jah is the only one moving to Sotty.

Others dogpile other places.

(Mine seems ok for this moment in time)

[SpyreX]

If we end up only lynching Sotty I swear to the universe the amount of rue would flood Mars

[SpyreX]

So, now, SC is at P-1 and Rhinox is at P-3

In THEORY we could still do all three.

[SpyreX]

You know you want to. You can taste it.

It tastes....delicious

[SpyreX]

Ohh SNAP...

Porkens did you just DV?

[SpyreX]

Wait that one is all screwy

[SpyreX]

P.S. If we screw this up we have to all unvote immediately and prepare this dance again for saturday.

I dont want that to happen.

[SpyreX]

If MO doublevotes we could TOTALLY do all 3

[SpyreX]

ZOOORRRBLAAGGGGG

Get in here NAO

[SpyreX]

Or not.

Hero, get your vote on one of those three. No time for catchup.

[SpyreX]

Jah, get your vote on Sotty.

[SpyreX]

You filthy little jerk

[SpyreX]

Needless to say if none of them are town VIG you know what to do.

[SpyreX]

3 less now sir!

[SpyreX]

Ohh hay you swarms of doublevoters.

No way all of you get to go "Ohh gee SpyreX I had no idea what you were talking about and I'll let it slide for eons"

There's some SERIOUS jerks in that doublevoting madness I'll have you know.

I'm looking at you VP :colbert:

[SpyreX]

And needless to say if for whatever wild wacky action bike reason we have a 4 scum group that has a solid chance to be game.

[SpyreX]

Town doublevoters is the key.

And with the fifty million doublevoters I'd bank fat riches on some being scum.

[SpyreX]

Kind of.

And, of course, VP gives the only answer that doesn't mean instant death.

I'm still wroth at you for not slapping me when you saw what I was talking about.

[SpyreX]

No I dig THAT and if you're right about SC you are doubleplus confirmed town as far as I'm concerned.

Although if you're wrong I still want words because even though I was ok with pushing the machine forward I was never really a fan of that lynch choice.

[SpyreX]

Nothing like being town as all getout because of my functionally retarded reads day 1!

USA USA

Incantum Scumbolina: Jazz

Incantum DUOS: Jazz

[SpyreX]

Less testing, more praying.

[SpyreX]

This is an interesting question.

[SpyreX]

I am 100% behind the triple purge.

[SpyreX]

Actually, if you want to get all fancypants here's the real question:

What do you think the chances are there are 2 scum (or anti town, whatevs) left?

[SpyreX]

I know there'll be too much resistance but if we're looking at A scum left at this juncture and we could balance it out right we could TOTALLY shore this puppy up now: or, at least, roll the hard 6 on it.

I'll look later today and really get my handle on what the potential third party roles are and how they could alter this theoretical win/loss today up in this bouty-bouty.

[SpyreX]

Alright, while we have time lets lay this out and REALLY DISCUSS IT:

Do we, instead of finding the scum, lay out the highest chance for "who is town" and kill everyone else today?

A survivor may want to screw this up but would have to coordinate WITH the scum to screw it up and we would have to be on the spot to adjust.

Other third parties (Reporter especially) could just, ya know, claim today and we could try to let them get their wincon done if possible - ultimately that is the only chance they'd have to win.

Lynchers would win in most scenarios.

---

I haven't balanced out the absolute mechanics for this yet, of course. Additionally, we'd want every damn one to lay out/use abilities before this happens.

Thoughts?

[SpyreX]

Vindictive Being would only apply if the person we leave is voting for the scum with it.

Thats easy enough to deal with.

I DO, if this was viable, need to go through and look at all the powers and what ones could alter this plan.

Of course, if this was the direction a massclaim would ALSO happen today.

[SpyreX]

Only massclaim IFF we are moving at a mass purge.

I'm glad I'm not the only one with doublevoter paranoia. Now that I'm not allowed to be a POWERFUL WIZARD, no one can.

[SpyreX]

Well hells bells thats even better than a lynch.

That, pretty much, can not be a third party / scum ability - but, of course, having you use it means, woosh.

So, couple forseeable options:

1.) Gamma uses the dancing machine after we setup the votes and we only lynch two today.
2.) We believe Gamma and lynch three others.
3.) We beileve Gamma and lynch two others.

The more I look at how this game is going I'm pretty confident in the subset of Nacho/Jazz we'd find the last scum. I'm damn near positive (or real bad at this game) with the latest revelations we'd find it in Nacho/Jazz/Jah.

Yea, thats right. VP COULD be pulling the wool over my eyes but I'm not buying it.
Porkens, like I said, gives those good ol' town vibes.
If this is a Gamma-gambit (Gammabit if you will) I'd be shocked and awed.

One thing for sho' though is that all the players that WILL be remaining need to burn a DV today. No more shenanigans.

[SpyreX]

I couldn't remember if EVERYONE did it.

In this age, mortals control our destiny. The POWERFUL WIZARDS have become senile or dead.

A Gammabit doesn't add up - it really comes down to a consensus saying "do it" and if he doesn't he gets lynched. That's not a good gambito's

[SpyreX]

They are pretty amazing secrets.

Of everyone left Porkens is my LEAST LIKELY to be scum by a margin. If third party - maybe survivor. Could be lyncher, but that would be the ballsiest lyncher ever.

Gamma is next least likely to be scum. However, if we're wrong today he dies tomorrow.

Then it gets fuzzy:

Jah could have been throwing a well placed mellow bus on MO (which works so well because of how mellow it is). Yet, he was very vocal with Rhinox being not scum - which, makes me worry that this might be a gambit. However, my read over and over is town. Not SUPER TOWN, but town.

VP, ohh VP. The dance during the lylo shenanigans was beautiful but it still worries me. Not to mention the game-mechanics discussion (which I want to believe but).

These two make me worried.

Nacho and Jazz, yea. I liked Nik, but not enough to ignore Nacho's performance. And Jazz goes today for sure.

(IF I MISSED SOMEONE CHANCES ARE THEY ARE SCUM)

----

That said, I just really, really read all the abilities.

Funny theory: Sotty didn't shoot MO. She tried to shoot someone else who was under the effects of a redirect. Personally, I bet this was me.

And, please help me parse this out because now I'm paranoid there are two scum left which changes everything:

(F) Still, Small Voice. You may speak with each member of your faction (____, _____, _____, and _____) privately at any time in this QuickTopic.

[SpyreX]

Also, I'd just like to point out to the town that there are several abilities potentially available to the scum that permit them to pretend to be onboard with getting themselves purged while they could actually avoid being purged, while killing off two townies in the process, so I don't think you should be so quick to buy into the "if I say I'm okay with being purged, that means I'm town" line.

By, several abilities you mean.... Luxomancy?

By not being subtle you mean... soft-claiming?

[SpyreX]

@Nacho:

Unless you're gonna go all the way live and say that we're scum together I'd worry a whole lot less about why Porkens is transparently town to me and more about finding the scum.

I'd went over my big flag early on this game with him already.

[SpyreX]

Thats a big part of it, yea. And the lynches at the end.

[SpyreX]

I'm real paranoid about there being two scum left as doubtful as it may be.

A tri-lynch not hitting scum, with 1 scum left, isn't a "loss" persay - although that would be a whole new set of madness depending on who's left in the final 3.

[SpyreX]

No.

Even three townies, barring funny business, isn't an automatic town loss:

7-3-1(NK) gives us a 3 person lylo.

NOW, if:

1.) The scum is a multi-doublevoter
2.) There are two scum

Thats a loss.

[SpyreX]

I'm pretty confident in Jazz being scum which considering how AWESOME I was day 1 actually makes me more nervous than not.

I'm still firmly on Porkens is town, but I dig.

[SpyreX]

I could have worded that better, but what I mean is that just because someone claims to be willing to go along with being purged doesn't mean that they are aligned with the town. Luxomancy would protect them from a purge, as would Liquid Being, but Condemn, Prominence, Gepenst, and Light Arrow would also put scum in a position to manipulate the results of a multi-purge to their own advantage as well, depending on how many there are and what their alignments are.

More importantly, I'm saying that I think town players are being lazy if they think the best way to win this game is by multi-purging townies.

Most importantly, I'm saying that I know for a fact that some players are promoting a mistaken (either intentional or otherwise) belief about some of the roles that exist. Those who keep pooh-poohing the existence of a SK are most highly suspect because I know for a fact that there is a third party killer in this game, because I know for a fact that Sotty didn’t kill MO. And since nobody has claimed or even hinted at being a town aligned Vig, I'm pretty certain that there's a SK in the game. Which leads me to believe that there are either no more Light Assassins or, at most, 1 more Light Assassin, but there is definitely another killing faction out there, and I don't think it's town aligned. This is what I've been trying to get people to think about without having to claim, but there you have it.

Now, it's intermission between the first and second periods of the men's Olympic hockey game between Canada and Germany, and Canada has to win this to go to the gold medal final, so I'm off to watch the rest of the game. More later.

Regards,
Jazz

You know whats the awesomest about this?

Its not the "multi-purging is lazy" (hint: it isn't and throwing away that makes no sense)

Its not the fact that Condemn, Genpest or Light Arrow in fact don't save the scum (hint: they don't) in the scenario there is one left.

Its not the fact that Liquid Being being on a scum in this setup means that we're pretty much already boned.

Its not, once again, not giving any actual opinions on scum.

Its not even being concerned with self-preservation.

Its, actually, the fact that again we get "I have secret powers and secret information" instead of just laying it out on the table.

Thats the awesomest part.

The part I like the most.

[SpyreX]

Thats one issue that I alluded to - if we hit 3 and the game is still going Gamma is going to have to be a gut call - barring, of course, some mystical majesty perhaps.

Jazzy needs to step up though.

[SpyreX]

My MAGIC POWERED ABACUS has some problems:

I know this because I have the Sixth Sense ability which I used on Day 1 (as well as the Seal ability, which I have not used). I misunderstood something about the game mechanism initially and thought that I had to send in my choice of ability use early in the Day,

so I sent it in early and was not permitted to change it later.

9. Role-based Abilities: You may send in an ability (as specified by your Role PM) at any time during each Incantation. All actions resolve as soon as possible unless otherwise stated (see next rule).

You may change any submission that has not yet resolved.

(A) Sixth Sense. You may choose another player to learn who (if anyone) they target during the Incantation.

This ability resolves at the end of the Incantation.

HMMM a mystery.

Yet, another MYSTERY ATTACKS:

I know that there is another killer in the game because

Sotty did not target MO on Night 1

. She targeted SerialClergyman.

--- SerialClergyman --- Dark Eminence ---

Purged

during Incantation I.

Perhaps with a MAGIC POWERED SPACE COMPUTER this could be resolved. Alas, no.

We've got ourselves a live one fellas.

[SpyreX]

Yea I'm pretty stupid I know rite - taking the mod's word on how things work is quite the leap of faith.

Much like sotty targeting someone already dead A++

[SpyreX]

Ohhh it feels so good.

So delicious.

[SpyreX]

I'd love to see the QT, although I imagine it was a lonely place.

I still giggle at how due to my total incompetence I was obviously town.

[SpyreX]

I'll hold while no fault of Vi's what I thought still makes perfect wrong sense to me.

[SpyreX]

Hehe, nothing like an untouchable brain damaged town.

[SpyreX]

Even that is HILARIOUS to me in retrospect:

"Ohh, I'm a one-shot doublevoter? Thats cool I guess."
"Ohh snap, Vi changed it and now I'm an all the time doublevoter? And this game is being slow? Time to HAM IT UP"

And thus, a POWERFUL WIZARD was born.

He lived strong and bright and died drooling only a little more on himself than when his star was truly shining.

[SpyreX]

I thought it was weird he had a full name but claiming "I CAN KILL MYSELF" did a lot to counteract that.

This was a hoot, like always. Whatever the mojo is in your games is awesome Vi.

And Nik is some kinda mad genius. I liked everything about those reads but even then... wow.