'cause it's better to kill dana first.
Open 203: C/9 Mafia Wins!
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Gayle Goon
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Gayle Goon
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Gayle Goon
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You shouldn't need to make serious attempts to get out of RVS. RVS should lead to discussion and naturally end. "Who have you played with before" is not going to lead toGheb wrote:FoS Gayle
Don't like how you encourage people to get back into the RVS when serious attempts to get us out are being made.anything. RVS is infinitely more useful than such a pointless question.-
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Gayle Goon
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Gayle Goon
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I wasn't. But calling an end to RVS for a question that will lead to nothing was stupid.Gheb wrote:
In the same hand you shouldn't need to discourage it either.Gayle wrote:You shouldn't need to make serious attempts to get out of RVS.
The problem with setup discussion is that it is less likely to lead to any scum hunting, whereas in RVS you can question those bandwagons, you can fish for reactions, etc. The best thing about RVS is that it starts the game relatively quickly, as opposed to RQS which leaves you answering boring, vaguely useful questions for days and strategy discussion which can leave you with absolutely nothing to go on when it ends.Max wrote:Disagree so much, admittedly that question is not a good one. However RVS leads to bandwagon's for no reason. Making points about the set-up can lead to conversation with no RVS.
You only need to look at the questions accompanying the above quote to see what I mean about RQS.
As to the question addressed to me, yes RVS appears to be over now. How does this answer help you hunt scum?
I can tell it is going to be "fun" arguing with you already. I'm not wrong. You don't discuss the avatar, you discuss the bandwagon, you purposefully pile on the bandwagon to draw reactions, you exaggerate the implications of someone's vote in order to pressure them, etc. You see who reacts to what and how.Wdjat wrote:Yeah, because "I am voting for you because your avatar is giving me the stink eye" really fosters serious conversation. For what it's worth, I think the post that has Gheb worried is a non-tell. But you are wrong about RVS.
Also,
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Gayle Goon
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At what point does this line of questioning lead to anything at all helpful? Please stop asking such pointless questions. They are not leading anywhere. They are not going to lead anywhere. RVS ended when you and Gheb decided it was a better idea to focus on questions that do not help anyone to find scum in anyway.Max wrote:This specific question does not, your opinion however does. At what point, would you say, that the RVS was over?
Because it is very difficult to get a dissatisfying answer from the kinds of questions used in RQS. Just look at the answers you have gotten so far.Max wrote:RQS, within about 2 days brings results. Once my questioning is finished, entirely ignoring RVS I will have my suspects. In fact most RVS stages end when a player asks a random question with an dissatisfying answer, why not cut out the middle man.
Vote: Max
Based on the helpful information that Max's questions uncovered.
In other words: Nothing.-
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Gayle Goon
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Nope.Wdjat wrote:You weren't?
I've explained my views on RVS and RQS, so I am not going to bother with the rest of your post.
What changed between myWdjat wrote:Gayle, what changed your opinion on RVS between Newbie 877 and this game?secondgame and now? I played in more games, I gained more experience, I realized how slow RQS is, I realized how much better RVS is, I realized how useless strategy discussion is in relation to scum hunting, and so on. In short, I learned better.-
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Gayle Goon
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Max, all of those "discoveries" are completely worthless in regards to scum hunting. The discussion didn't come from your questions, but from people arguing over RVS.Max wrote:Gayle, I promised to get you results in two days, I've used 6 hours. RVS has given you nothing, in fact you are voting me based on my questions therefore based on the RQS. Therefore I have just proven to you the RQS has brought about suspects.
The following I have deduced from my questioning:
- You dislike any change in the play methods used to start gaming conversation, regardless of the fact within the second page we have more info than most games make in the first 4.
- You suffer from tunnel vision majorly. There have been several posts before each of yours with content to pick at yet you choose to respond to myself. Confirmation Bias.
- kyle99 should have slow drifting scum reads rather than snap decision making. i.e. more than two pages to make his mind up on someone
- The1fifi treats mistakes and scumtells as separate when genuinely they are one and the same, for scum to be caught they must make mistakes.
Also Gayle, in the past 6 hours RQS has generated more discussion than the 24 hours beforehand. It has stimulated discussion which is the point of the RVS/RQS.
AND besides kyle99 has given me a scum read, why RV if an RVS means nothing? The point of RVS isn't for shits and giggles, it's so people can analyse the voting. You aren't doing that so why do you support the RVS?
Also, your scum read on Kyle is ridiculous.-
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Gayle Goon
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Experience.Wdjat wrote:What in particular made you "learn better?"
Let's get to the point. You want to say that I'm being dishonest about my liking of RVS, correct? I've already told you that playing more games changed my opinion about it. There is no "eureka moment". Go read Teleportation Mafia Universe One if you want to see another game of mine where I echo this sentiment.Wdjat wrote:I mean, it's only been a couple months since your second game so surely you can point to the eureka moment.
I would like to remind you that you are doing the same thing, sir. That is, whining instead of scum hunting.Wdjat wrote:Here's the problem: For all your praise of early wagons as a tool for scum hunting, you're doing a crap job of it. Like I haven't seen anything that looks like scum hunting from you, just whining about R(V/Q)S. Show us how it's done.
Also,
Says the guy that posted thisWdjat wrote:Don't follow Gayle's example. For the good of this thread.
Which is nothing but pointless trolling.Wdjat wrote:"Oh man. This is a "good" post. I'm "glad" I read it. I sure "hope" you mak
Fuck, I can only mock you for so long. It's exhausting to type like you
I'm antagonistic, but that is just how I play. Don't take it to heart. I'm not trying to insult anybody.-
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Gayle Goon
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RVS was brutally murdered by an argument and your RQS before anything could come out of it. So no, I am not going to try to analyze those votes.Max wrote:In post 49 you respond to Wdjat's post asking you to show us your vote analysing which you ignored. Why?
Do you feel that the RVS stage has lost meaning since the RQS vs. RVS battle took over?
Do you really believe that your questions are giving you a reliable read on the other players? Who are you top suspects and what makes them scummy? As clearly as possible, even if you have to repeat yourself.
Love blossoms through frequent meetings. Every time I join a game, it is only to get closer to you.danakillsu wrote:Sorry for not posting yet. I'll read through and be back shortly.vote:Gaylefor showing up in another game with me.-
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Gayle Goon
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Except that the argument with you and the RQS completely stopped the RVS.Wdjat wrote:If you actually believed in the value of RVS, you could still have gained that value while other people are asking random questions.
Okay. Whatever. Have fun.Gayle wrote:Yeah you're still not showing us how it's done. Instead you're telling me that you're antagonistic and not to take it personally. I found my scum. It's you.
vote: Gayle-
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Gayle Goon
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So what are the tells you found, Kyle?kyle99 wrote:Really, in the last 2 pages of posts, nothing is giving you any tells? Perhaps you should reread.
@Max:You provided a list of suspects, but can you tell me what exactly you find scummy about them?
Vote Count-Sho
Scott-tatetothetot,
Lowell-Wdjat, gameplayah, the1fifi
gameplayah-the1fifi
Max-Gayle, kyle99, Lowell
Kyle99-gHEB
wdjat-danakillsu
Gayle-wdjat-
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Gayle Goon
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What kind of reaction are you expecting from something like this?Gheb wrote:Unvote Vote Jacob Savage
Pressure vote.
@Fifi:Why exactly are you voting kunk? Because he is attacking someone you find townie?
@MOD:Prod Max and Gameplayah, please.
This game is so slow. Anybody wanna argue with me about something vaguely related to the game so we can get some posts?-
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Gayle Goon
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A pressure vote without an explanation is pointless. Who is going to be pressured by a post that says "pressure vote" with no other explanation. I would have completely ignored your vote, were it against me.Gheb wrote:What reaction do I expect from a pressure vote? How about a player actually starting to post? Big surprise, huh?
Your vote is scummy because it is a pressure vote with no pressure and therefore pointless. Further, there is no way to respond to it.Gheb wrote:If you claim that me pressure voting somebody is scummy youshouldelaborate.
Lowell only needs to post more. I don't have a problem with any of his posts. He has voted you. His reason for voting you is as good as any other reason to vote so far. I think it was pointless to say "Jacob is town", but I don't find it scummy.Max wrote:Lowell is evidently scum, what are your feelings on lowell?-
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What has Lowell done that you find scummy?tatetothetot wrote:I would be joining the Lowell wagon...
You mean gameplayah and Fifi? Why do you think either of them are voting Lowell "based off of fear to keep attention of themselves"? Not that I believe Fifi has any reason for his vote whatsoever.tate wrote: ...until I realized who was on it.Now that Lowell is being put in the spot light, people are changing their minds and voting for him based off of fear to keep attention of themselves
And speaking of the Lowell votes, why is no one questioning the Lowell wagon? Every single vote on it is complete nonsense.
@Fifi:You want to wagon him based on gut and because the game is slow?What?Are you saying you are willing to lynch him over nothing?
...what? This post is 100% scum manufactured nonsense. You are making a gigantic deal out of absolutely nothing and using it to jump on a completely ridiculous wagon.The Kunk wrote:What is this supposed to mean really? Your wording implies a guiltiness and escaping from judgement. Also considering yourself unlynchable is way overconfident. If you exhibit scummy tendencies then you will be lynched. This whole confidence that you can sneak by any lynch is horrible.
Vote: Kunkstar7
ButKyle wrote:Defeatism never works. I honestly think that Lowell is acting scummier than Max atm, so I'm going to unvote, vote: Lowellwhydo you find him scummy?
Also, in an attempt to impress Master Sho:Inaccurate Vote Count wrote:Max(1) - JacobSavage
Lowell(4) - gameplayah The1fifi kunkstar7 kyle99
JacobSavage(1) - danakillsu
danakillsu(2) - Wdjat Gheb
kunkstar7(3) - tatetothetot Lowell Gayle
Not Voting (1) - Max-
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Gayle Goon
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tate wrote:Actually, I was referring toKyle and Krunkabout hidding behind Lowells wagon.tate @ Sat Feb 20, 2010 5:16 pm wrote:I would be joining the Lowell wagon until I realized who was on it.Now that Lowell is being put in the spot light, people are changing their minds and voting for him based off of fear to keep attention of themselves.kunk @ Sat Feb 20, 2010 7:45 pm wrote:What is this supposed to mean really? Your wording implies a guiltiness and escaping from judgement. Also considering yourself unlynchable is way overconfident. If you exhibit scummy tendencies then you will be lynched. This whole confidence that you can sneak by any lynch is horrible.
vote: lowell
Shenanigans.kyle @ Sat Feb 20, 2010 10:08 pm wrote:Defeatism never works. I honestly think that Lowell is acting scummier than Max atm, so I'm going to unvote, vote: Lowell
Also, why are you voting Wdjat?-
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Gayle Goon
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Gayle Goon
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Okay, we have gotten a bit off track here.The1fifi wrote:Because.. i.. don't..want.. to.. kill.. townies. -.-
Are you willing to lynch Lowell?
Are you saying that an alternative to lynching Lowell is a no lynch?
Are you saying that you would rather no lynch, than attempt to lynch in our current situation?-
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Gayle Goon
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Gayle Goon
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@MOD:Are you alive? I know the streets of Shibuya are a dangerous place, but I would appreciate it if you let us know whether you were gunned down or something. I was recently in a game inwhich the mod was too sick to post, and it is not fun dealing with accidental hammers due to a lack of vote counts. Also,Gameplayah needs to be replaced. He hasn't posted since the 12th.-
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Gayle Goon
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Gayle
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Gayle Goon
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Gayle Goon
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Gayle Goon
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Gayle Goon
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Well, I'm back and all caught up. I don't think that Lowell's behavior was so scummy that we should not believe his claim (I actually have a null read of him). I still don't like kunk's vote on Lowell, as it still feels manufactured to me.
I don't have a problem with kyle99/his replacement so far. In fact, his was the only halfway justified vote on the lowell wagon.
Now, I'm going to change my vote to hewitt, because he is the second person to compare me to ABR, and I don't take kindly to that.
My problem with hewitt is that his reason for wanting to lynch lowell is apolicy lynchbased onmeta. Another problem is that I don't like the way he responded to Gheb (when he pointed out that Lowell was at L-1), or his subsequent exchange with Fifi. Particularly,
seems like a complete lie to me.hewitt wrote:No I mean like I really want to know what your qualifications for voting someone are.
Vote: hewitt
For advocating a policy lynch and the bad voodoo vibes I get from his responses to Gheb/Fifi.-
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hewitt wrote:Incorrect statement. I voted to lynch Lowell because I know he's a weak player and hasn't done anything to change my mind in THIS game.
You don't say anything about his behavior in this game, or how he hasn't done anything to change your mind. Rather you say that Lowell should be lynched because of his behavior in past games.hewitt wrote:Lowell- I feel like every game I play with Lowell it's the same story. He doesn't really do anything and then cracks underneath a straw of pressure and lashes out and professes that he's more helpful than X player and that it'd be a mistake to lynch him and we'd be dumb to do that. I know that in every game I've played with him he's been extremely unhelpful and more of a hindrance to the town than anything. A player I would be very scared to see travel far in the game and have in any tight situations.
So for that reason I'm going to
Unvote, Vote: Lowell
And your last post isn't any better. It is still advocating a policy lynch based on meta. You are still saying that your main reason for wanting to lynch Lowell is because of his behavior in past games.-
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Gayle Goon
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Gayle Goon
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Gayle Goon
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Gayle Goon
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Kyle was in the hospital and is being replaced, from my recollection. How can you say he has no interest in the game? How can you lynch him for no participation when he is being replaced?danakillsu wrote:
That he has no interest in this game so he can't help town.What exactly makes him a better lynch than someone like hewitt?
That hewitt isn't scummy....
I really don't know what to say if you think kyle is scummier than hewitt.-
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Gayle Goon
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Gayle
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Gayle Goon
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Gayle Goon
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Quickly,
Returning my vote to
Vote: Hewitt
If Lowell is not revealing his results, then he believes that he will survive the night.
I don't have much recollection of this game, but from memory, Dana, JacobSavage, and Fifi all had terrible reasons for voting kyle.
I'll try to make a better post tomorrow.-
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Gayle Goon
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Disregarding Hewitt for awhile, my suspects are Dana, Kunk, and Jacob.
Danavoted Kyle as a pressure vote, but kept it until the lynch. He claims that he didn'tactuallywant to lynch Kyle, but this is unlikely (in my opinion) as he kept his vote when Kyle was put at L-1 and even defended the wagon when I questioned it.
Kunkvoted kyle because "He's been scummy so far, and it fits with what I'm seen from him before" which is rather vague (especially considering Kunk showed no suspicions of kyle before his vote), and to "save the mod some trouble", which is either an excuse or an idiotic reason to lynch someone.
Jacobsimply agreed with Kunk's reason for voting. Much like Kunk, he showed no suspicion of Kyle before the vote. If Kunk is scum, Jacob is likely his buddy and was simply following him.
Vote: Kunkstar7
@Mod:If you haven't already, please prod the following people. Yes, I realize that I am one of the slackers.
hewitt
The1fifi
JacobSavage
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Gayle Goon
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That is a complete lie. You didn't say anything about it being a policy lynch. Youspecificallyvoted because you agreed with Kunkstar and his post said nothing about his vote being a policy lynch. Further, if it was a policy lynch then why didn't you remove your vote when Kyle requested replacement?
Vote: JacobSavage
JacobSavage-1-Gayle
The1fifi-1-Kunkstar7
lowell-1- danakillsu
danakillsu-1-Wdjat-
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Gayle Goon
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Gayle Goon
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Wouldn't Lowell's buddying up to kunk make sense if he knew kunk was town from an investigation? I know I gave him trouble for this, but withholding the results until later in the day could allow you to form a more informed opinion on those attacking kunk. ...what I'm saying is don't just rule out that mafia could have their own reasons for not killing Lowell, whether it be fear of doctors or otherwise. </buddying>
I'm willing to cut Sho some slack, seeing as he is not the only person to disappear days at a time in this game. Jacob, you are not the mod and that is not an official flip.-
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Gayle Goon
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Gayle Goon
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I'm really lazy when it comes to this game.
Now, there is probably a doctor. I find it hard to believe that mafia did not send in a night kill, especially looking at how quickly this night passed relative to night 1. And if there is a doctor, the doctor likely did not protect Lowell. Why? Because if the doctor protected lowell, he could claim and confirm the alignment of 3 other players, which would be a huge advantage. The doctor isn't claiming, so we can assume he protected someone else. And if that is the case, then scum didn't try to kill lowell for the second night in a row.
So, I'm suggesting that we lynch Lowell. If he is telling the truth, we at least get two confirmed townies in exchange and town will actually focus on other players instead of just Lowell. If he is scum, we get the obvious advantage of one scum dead and eliminate the confusion of his claim and 'investigations'.
Vote:Lowell
I'll try to make a 'why lowell is scummy' post later. But knowing me, later may be 'several days from now'.-
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Gayle Goon
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Wjdat was most likely town, and so Lowell II is likely town. Azelf is also likely town considering for a while he was the only one bothering to do any scum hunting.
As far as I remember, JacobSavage was scummy. For some reason.
Vote: JacobSavage
I have a theory that I can make this kind of post and no one will call me out because no one is around.-
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Gayle Goon
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Wdjat was town because he was doing the best and most aggressive scum hunting, enough even to annoy some folks. He was the most useful player in the game, period.
@Azelf: Go look back for whatever reasons I used to vote for JacobSavage the last time. In addition to that, the only possible scum (in my opinion, of course) are Kunk, Nacho (who replaced Hewitt), and Jacob. Nacho seems to be playing the game and is one of the few people keeping the game going. Kunk and Jacob are equally scummy, but Jacob is infinitely more useless.
Also, don't even try to pressure vote in this game. There is no one left that cares enough to be pressured.-
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