Riddle Me This! NY111 - mafia dead - Town wins!

[VasudeVa]

/confirm.

And for the record, it's VasudeVa not VasudeVad

*hermione voice*

[VasudeVa]

Original Roll String: 4d20

4 20-Sided Dice: (8, 13, 10, 5) = 36

Original Roll String: 1d4

1 4-Sided Dice: (4) = 4

[VasudeVa]

Voting number 12!

vote mipe

[VasudeVa]

Also,

unvote, vote: VasudeVa

Please explain how voting with dice is helpful at all.

Random Voting Stage. Durr.

[VasudeVa]

Vas (you don't mind if I call you that, do you? What would prefer I abrieviate your name to, if not that?) Please anwer the following questions:

1) What do you think a random vote achieves, and why?

2) What do you think of the interactions between me, korts, and izzy?

3) What do you perceive as optimum scum strategy given a large normal setting on day one?

4) What is the purpose of the random voting stage?

5) Who is your favorite postmodern thinker?

Thank you.

Vas is my preferred nickname. I'd sign myself up as Vas if I could. But VasudeVa is too cool. Props if anyone knows which book I got his name from.

1) Succumb newscum to pressure. Other than that, reading material for later. I especially like using the early actions of players to read their replacements.

2) Bandwagon-y.

3) Hide in large bandwagons. Too good to resist. Will be watching for that.

4) see 1.

5) Myself. Following other postmodern thinkers defeats the whole postmodernism part.

[VasudeVa]

Nevermind.

Re: 1) and your dismissive response to me, how do you expect to achieve any kind of valuable reaction if your method of choosing a vote is public and known to be completely harmless in terms of threat of lynching?

Re: 3) what is your opinion of the Izzy wagon?

Re: 2) your description of events doesn't address any of the relevant interactions, as far as I can see. Please explain.

1.) I wanted to see if someone is up for a ride in my wagon. If not then I'll be unvoting later. Wanted to keep it truly random. Looking at names and picking the first one that sticks to your mind is not random.

3) I like it. Will participate if it gets heated. Otherwise, I don't see a need for a page 3-5 probable mislynch. My vote means it's 1 vote away from an accidental/scumhammer. Don't want that.

2) There is not much to go on anyway. We're on page 2. Relax bro. I doubt you'll be able to make walls of text in this stage.

[VasudeVa]

I dislike the stall of the Izzy wagon.

Although, I sincerely have no idea on why the wagon is happening. Why anyway? Is this some Meta-Nazi ploy, trying to lynch off the proverbial 'Jews' or something?

Still, this will move town forwards. So here.

unvote, vote Izzy

[VasudeVa]

I dislike the stall of the Izzy wagon.

Although, I sincerely have no idea on why the wagon is happening. Why anyway? Is this some Meta-Nazi ploy, trying to lynch off the proverbial 'Jews' or something?

Still, this will move town forwards. So here.

unvote, vote Izzy

Seriously? If you don't know what the Izzy wagon is for, why are you on it? If your best guess is that it's a completely pointless venture, why are you on it?

unvote, vote: VasudeVa

Blatant opportunism.

To be fair, I don't see a big issue with dahill's distinction between anti-town and scummy, although the "did anyone else see this" part does make it a bit more difficult for me to believe that he didn't find Richard scummy.

Big early wagons make people claim. Since this is a closed set-up, I'd like some early claims so we know what we can use against scum. GTFO my strategy.

Seriously, what's wrong with you? Every post I make, you go all out and criticize it, possibly getting the lynch on my neck. I do not know you from anywhere in this site, nor has the game gone far enough for you to be tunneling on me. I dislike it.

FoS Korts

[VasudeVa]

What do you think of the case I have laid out against dahill? What do you think of the case I have laid out against Inhim? Are you even reading the game?

Furthermore why are you wagoning izzy? Do you disagree with the other wagons and think we should still be going with the biggest one? If so, why? Or, do you think Izzy has done something scum would do? If so, what? Your logic that "stalling the izzy wagon is bad" takes as an assumption that either a) Izzy is scum, or b) Other current options are bad. So take one of these positions and defend it, and if you don't think A or B is true, you should probably be voting dahill.

Dahil's case is too "read between the lines-y". I like to base my votes on someone's action. Although, currently I'm riding wagons to get claims.

B mostly. I dislike day 1. Everyone keeps grasping for some material. Can't wait for night so we can analyze some night kills. I like to bandwagon my way to victory. Here's a big wagon. I'll stay on it for as long as I feel the need to.

[VasudeVa]

What exactly about Anon did you find scummish?

Something about the fact that his first post was just a vote and didn't say anything else, well, I got a bad feeling about that <_<

+ something about how stupid it is to only have 1 wagon and one should have multiple wagons.

That is basically it.

Could you explain a little bit more? I mean, he wasn't the only one who's first post was just a vote.

I dislike the stall of the Izzy wagon.

Although, I sincerely have no idea on why the wagon is happening. Why anyway? Is this some Meta-Nazi ploy, trying to lynch off the proverbial 'Jews' or something?

Still, this will move town forwards. So here.

unvote, vote Izzy

Seriously? If you don't know what the Izzy wagon is for, why are you on it? If your best guess is that it's a completely pointless venture, why are you on it?

unvote, vote: VasudeVa

Blatant opportunism.

To be fair, I don't see a big issue with dahill's distinction between anti-town and scummy, although the "did anyone else see this" part does make it a bit more difficult for me to believe that he didn't find Richard scummy.

Big early wagons make people claim. Since this is a closed set-up, I'd like some early claims so we know what we can use against scum. GTFO my strategy.

Seriously, what's wrong with you? Every post I make, you go all out and criticize it, possibly getting the lynch on my neck. I do not know you from anywhere in this site, nor has the game gone far enough for you to be tunneling on me. I dislike it.

FoS Korts

Vote: VasudeVa

Why would you force someone to claim basically on nothing? I don't like that. Yes, it's day one, but you can still scumhunt. Plenty of scum have been caught on day one in previous games. We shouldn't force people to claim just to find out their role, and I see no town reason to do what you are doing.

Also, that FoS on korts screams omgus. It's a huge appeal to emotion, and as far as I can tell you are upset that he voted for you. Also, how is korts tunneling on you at all?

Scumhunt on what exactly? Unreliable tells? I'd rather scumhunt based on actions, thank you very much. Here I go now: His tunneling and your vote scream scum. I've got half the mind to vote one of you. If he's scum, you're scumbuddy. Easy.

Tunnelling - backread please. I've made like something like 3 or 4 posts and he has been focused on me for some reason. I don't even know him and this is my second game on this site ever. I theorize that he's either looking for a scapegoat, or he's deliberately getting on my nerves for some reason.

And I do not see any reason for him to focus fire on my ass. All I've been doing so far was answer Status' random questions and explaining my actions just like a good townie should. You guys are voting me based on my defensive play style and attempt at transparency. How lame.

So yes, I am doing a semi-OMGUS by FoSing because I do find him very suspicious.

Any more questions?

[VasudeVa]

VasudeVa, there's a point I'm having difficulty understanding in your response to korts/scotmany.

You seem to be opposed to scumhunting on day one (correct me if I'm wrong) yet you also seem to be doing scumhunting on day one in that you believe korts and scot are scum.

As a sidenote, if you have nothing on izzy and something on scot/korts, why are you keeping your vote on izzy?

You haven't understood our izzy wagon btw. No one wants to see her claim (except possibly tsq). Unvote Vote: dahill. I'm smelling strong 'othersitemeta' on VasVa and I need more time to properly evaluate his actions. (If you are from another site, ould you link to some games you've played there?). dahill, on the other hand, calls an action to our attention, then after it gets shot down as notscummy, tries to claim that was what he believed all along? I'm not buying it.

I am

not

opposed to scum hunting on day one. I love scumhunting, I just find it extremely unreliable 5 pages in. I was waiting for interactions like this to happen, then I can proceed. I'm not yet voting though, I'm giving people some leeway. Besides, I kind of accidentally baited them to it.

You might not. But I do. She claims, then good for me. Closed game setups can be very confusing, which is why I would love to push claims as often as I can.

Unfortunately, this is my second game of mafia ever. So it's probably some of my noobishness. Feel free to study my meta on Newbie 902 though, which is my first ever mafia game. Although I have read LOTS of games, which should explain why I'm semi well-versed.

Im voting for you cause you'd rather push for a claim based on nothing rather than scumhunt. Also, just because Korts is voting for you doesn't mean he is tunneling. He has addressed other people so far as well. And you just called both korts and me scum basically because we voted for you.

What? No, I was waiting for more interactions BEFORE I scumhunt. Jeesus, I didn't say that I would push for a claim THEN scumhunt, I was going to see if I get a claim, if not then I'll try my best to scumhunt. Yes, but I dislike him getting of the wagon he originally started only to vote for me for some reason.

I do see why he would find it as blatant opportunism. However the main difference between me and the other people on the wagon is my attempt at transparency. Everyone else voted without trying to even explain it. So, why tunnel on me when there could be other people to target?

Is it like a "pro" move to suddenly vote for people without explaining your actions if you are town? I do not comprehend. Please explain.

[VasudeVa]

I have read LOTS of games, which should explain why I'm semi well-versed.

Noobs fantasy right here. You don't sound well versed st all. You sound like you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about.

Please respond to my post.

Hey, I said semi. I read like, 10 games or so. The 'semi' in my beliefs might have different values to the 'semi' of yours. Postmodernism, yeah.

I do have a little clue to what I'm talking about, just not on the repercussions it might have. I won't be claiming pro here, I'm a newbie through and through.

Read between the lines-y, like too much "Hey dude, look at what he said" rather than "Hey dude, look at who he voted". I'm not entirely convinced by the dahill wagon because of just that. The reason why I rode on the Izzy wagon was because I thought you were policy lynching due to meta or pushing for claims which is something I'm very comfortable with. Watching for freudian slips, however, is not my cup of tea. Feel free to point and laugh, but this is how I play.

[VasudeVa]

Vas -

yes, it is a "pro" move to suddenly turn and vote for someone without explaining why. Glork wrote a post in md somewhere about this, I'll dig it out for you if you like. But if you look at Korts' post, that's not what he's done. He explained why he was voting for you in pretty clear terms (I'll let him explain if you really can't get it, but it's not like he was cryptic or anything...)

Secondly, you appear to be under the misconception that you can just wait for stuff to happen and it will suddenly appear. No, you have to do stuff and that makes stuff happen. You jump on the little tells early on in the hope that they lead to something bigger, and at the very least a semi-serious wagon forces someone to make a stance.

Thirdly, it's not in the town's best interest to have people claiming willy-nilly. If someone claims townie, we are none the wiser - they could be a townie, or they could be a scum fakeclaiming townie. Except for the scum, if that person is not scum, they now know that that person is not a power role. So they can avoid nightkilling them to hunt for other power roles more effectively. Similarly, if someone claims cop or some other power role, tey could be doing that as the power role in question or as scum, and with nothing else to go on, we don't have any way of telling between them. But scum can tell because scum know who the scum are, and hence if that person really is a cop they then just get nightkilled. So we gain nothing and stand to lose rather a lot. Town tend to lose mountainous games.

Oh. I understand. Glork's post would be very helpful. I don't understand why transparency would be a bad thing for town though. I dislike it when people don't explain their actions because it means that they have something to hide.

I think that getting power roles to claim would be cool though. Stuff like, knowing a princess so we can protect or a day-vig we can use. I read somewhere that townies unconciously do want to claim. We can take their claims with a grain of salt. If they lied, it's an easy lynch.

[VasudeVa]

Woah you'd jump on someone's wagon because of a meta you'd never even seen before?

Yes, because I'm a prejudicing SOB.

What's up with the 1 sentence posts? Post longer or I will ride your wagon.

[VasudeVa]

Woah you'd jump on someone's wagon because of a meta you'd never even seen before?

Yes, because I'm a prejudicing SOB.

What's up with the 1 sentence posts? Post longer or I will ride your wagon.

Wait...what? You'd be willing to switch to the Dahill wagon because he only posts one sentence posts? Not because he is scummy and that you dislike his interaction with Richard? How is only posting one sentence posts scummy at all? It's not like his posts are void of all content.

Izzy wagon seems to be going nowwhere. My vote is wasted. His wagon seems to be going somewhere. An easy switch, if you ask me.

No...we want to keep power roles hidden. What if you were to force izzy to claim and she came out to be a doc? That would be a bad situation. Forcing people to claim is just giving the scum more information.

Then don't claim doc. But I see your point now. My main idea was to get cop claims and if we have a doc, then scum should start urinating their pants. But it's a giant if. I'd like my closed games to be a little less confusing though and that's what I think I should do.

This is exactly why im voting for you. You are pushing for someone to claim for nothing instead of scumhunting when there is plenty of stuff going on to scumhunt off of. That doesn't help the town at all. Scumhunting should not be a secondary option if forcing someone to claim fails; scumhunting is the town's most powerful tool. Also, if Korts has a reason to vote for you, why shouldn't he get off the izzy wagon? Why shouldn't he get off of a wagon that was started randomly to pursue someone he finds scummy?

Not really pushing, more like hoping that someone will claim. Anyway I don't really feel like voting for you now since taking this much effort to correct noobish little me is not something that scum would do. Korts, on the other hand..... I'll wait on his response.

No one is tunneling on you.

My newb senses saw it as tunneling. That and I'm a paranoid little mofo. Sue me.

...both me and Korts have explained why we switched our votes to you.

You might have, he still hasn't.

Unvote

Thinking.

[VasudeVa]

What's up with the 1 sentence posts? Post longer or I will ride your wagon.

Yes, because short posts means scum, right? Very "experienced" of you.

And scot, would you place me as second scummiest behind Vas then right now? Just wondering.

No, short posts mean little town contribution.

Kinda funky how you're trying to redirect attention to me. HEY GUISE, IS DIS A SCUMTELL? I DUN KNO LOL.

[VasudeVa]

I wasn't convinced before, but I am now. He does try to get attention away from him(and does a bad job at it). I'm comfortable with the attention I have on me(Although I do piss poor job at posting my reactions to them), but he is trying to save his ass by getting mine lynched.

Vote dahil

BTW, thanks for the insightful posts.

[VasudeVa]

I am not going to excuse VasudeVa's scummy actions simply because he is new, and I don't think any of you should either. If he read all those games he says he has read, then he would know that pushing someone to claim when there is no case hurts the town. He would know that outing powerroles hurts the town. He is deliberately doing something antitown. I'm not going to let him slide by on the defense of that he is a noob. And I don't like how he has stuck to the "I'm a newb" defense.

You are assuming too much on my actions. I like aggressive play, so I tend to step on some toes here. But my actions are pro-town in motivation, with some risks involved which may be seen as anti-town. I don't really see pushing for claims as anti-town. It's a bit like raising big in poker. We get a liar, lynch him the next day. We get a cop, hopefully a doc will protect. Something like that, yeah.

Apparently my strategy is not as good as it seems because people keep on disagreeing with me. Also, for some reason, I keep baiting (accidentally, might I add) people like you who keep on dissing my game.

And I'm not really going "I'M NEWB I'M NEWB" here, what I was doing was calculated to some extent. How ever it's purely "Hey, this makes sense!" rather than "Hey, will this work?"

What I do is disagreeable to some extent, but I don't see why exactly you are still pushing this since you have so little on me.

[VasudeVa]

If you play with fire, you're gonna get burned.

Yes, but I can also burn faces and urinate on it's charred remains if I can control it. So there.

Re-read the game with dahill on my crosshairs. I do not see how people say that he has contributed

anything

other than accidentally volunteering for today's wagon. Maybe it's the small posts, but all I see are hollow remains of a failed attempt for an argument.

Btw, thanks for the link TSQ. It's very helpful. Digging through MD now. Never really bothered to go beyond page 1 before.

[VasudeVa]

Maybe V/LA: Possibly 3-4 days. Could be longer, could be shorter. Not sure, probably won't be longer than 5 days. Family emergency. Someone's dying/dead, methinks. No internets in that part of this third country, unfortunately.

Promise to catch up when I get back. I'm a little worried that the fire I caught might grow without me, but what can I do? Meatworld calls.

[VasudeVa]

Back. First a "GIT YO FILTHY VOTES OFFA ME IM TOWN" post. Because no self-respecting townie should let town waste a lynch on him

Then a post dedicated to scumhunting(hopefully, if I still have energy. I came from a 5 hour drive, the only reason I'm here is because I can't sleep)

Him being a noob isn't why i'm pursuing him. I'm pursuing him because he wanted to get Izzy to claim off of nothing, he omgus both me and korts, and I think he is exploiting where others have called him a noob. Someone who has read ten games as he has said would know its not helpful to the town to get a cop to claim. And I hate how he would choose to do that over scumhunt. I don't get a noob town vibe from him. I'm getting a noob scum vibe from him who has latched onto what others say about him being a newb, and using that as his defense.

And scumhunt to what exactly, at precisely those points in the game. The only wagon before my wagon was dahill's wagon. And I did explicitly say that I wasn't convinced then. My vote is used in this priority:
1. Start/Join Wagon on scummy people.
2. Do something I perceive as pro-town with the vote
3. Start/Join Wagon on suspicious people
Pay more attention to the timeline of events will ya?

And I looked at his posts in iso. And those first two might be responses to others about his meta. First of all, I don't see why he would include the line "So it's probably some of my noobiness" in the first one unless he was going to exploit it. Before anyone started questioning his logic, he said he was semi-wellversed, then when people started calling him new and clueless, he stuck onto that. It reads to me as someone who is trying to exploit what others have said about him. Am I making sense here?

I tended to exploit the newb defense simply because 1: It is the truth. Can't really prove it though, so you'll have to take my word on it. and 2: I do not want town to waste a lynch on my town ass. Didn't really notice how often I used them though, I apologize if it gets your panties in a bunch. I get defensive reaal quickly because I dislike getting mislynched. It means I did not do my job well enough for town.
And this early in the game, was there any other way I could have defended myself? Korts' 'blatant opportunism' argument was good and I had to explain myself before the wagon fills.

I don't think I'm tunneling. I'm pursuing someone I think is scum. I am still waiting for mipe to answer my questions, and Im waiting for the replacements input. As far as I can tell, there is like 7 really active people, and the rest are sitting back and lurking which isn't good.

Yes you are. Kindly explain why you seem to be ignoring the other potential wagons. I see long dedicated posts against me, none/little for everyone else. Sounds like tunneling to me.

No...he was voting for izzy first, then moved unto the dahill wagon. Also, as far as I'm aware, he is voting for dahill because he doesn't like his content level, not the case that you and TSQ are pursuing.

True but lacking. I also voted him for his scummy vote on me. Cue the vote priority list I posted up there. The earlier case against dahil does have some weight, but it alone will not make me vote dahill. It's the in order of heaviest to lightest: scummy vote/content/VI-ness/TSQ and Shanba's case.

Any more questions?

Thoughts on scotmany:
While I dislike his tunneling on me, he reads to me town doing a minimalistic approach. Can't really blame him for that since I do get defensive rather quickly and my move to the Izzy wagon did ping many people's scumdar.

[VasudeVa]

Unfortunately, my scumhunt post will have to wait. Forgot to edit that part out, sheesh. You have no idea how tiring it is to be bilingual and not have English as your first language. Proof reading is a bitch. And it's a PMSing megabitch if you're dead tired.

[VasudeVa]

Forgot to respond to this part. Why are you ignoring part of what I said? You say you have read games. So why do you think its a good idea to have someone claim? As someone who has read ten games, you would know pushing people to randomly claim is not protown.

Pretty sure I explained this a few pages ago.

[VasudeVa]

Why me korts why?

haha yah I keep forgetting abouts this game becasue Im always playing theme games haha

Terribad defense. Replace out if you're not gonna play.

Either bored VT or scum trying to find an excuse for lurking. Can't really study his meta because search is broken. Sounds more like bored VT though, due to the noobish vibe I'm getting. Either way, I'm fine with policy lynching him. Might move here later depending on the dahill wagon.

dahill wagon seems to be going nowhere due to lack of interest. What's up with the apathy anyway? Is it really this hard to get people interested on day 1? Never really started on Day 1, my first game(still on going) was me replacing into D2.

Scumhunt post coming soon. Finding it really difficult to gather my thought due to the amount of players.

[VasudeVa]

@Quagmire
Your argument is silly, stupid and hypocritical. Before him trying to wagon on me, my posts were just me answering TSQ's Random Question spree. How could he consider the entirety of my posts if I did not post any other content other than the ones he had a problem with?

And I like to think that scum will not even try to correct bad mafia theory. What's the point? Players with bad theory garner hate and suspicion from town(learned this the hard way). Mafia doesn't even have to try casting suspicion on other people, all they have to do is to let the bad theory guy get himself lynched. It's a win-win situation for mafia to ignore players with bad theory. And it's an aggressive move for them to fuel suspicion on bad theory guy.

Which is what I think you're doing. Care to explain yourself?

unvote, vote Quag

[VasudeVa]

Why me korts why?

haha yah I keep forgetting abouts this game becasue Im always playing theme games haha

Terribad defense. Replace out if you're not gonna play.

Either bored VT or scum trying to find an excuse for lurking. Can't really study his meta because search is broken. Sounds more like bored VT though, due to the noobish vibe I'm getting.

Either way, I'm fine with policy lynching him.

Might move here later depending on the dahill wagon.

Are you serious here?

I was. I'm very comfortable with lurker/VI lynching. Lurkers/VIs make great mafia scapegoats. Again, GTFO my playstyle.

[VasudeVa]

@Quagmire
Your argument is silly, stupid and hypocritical. Before him trying to wagon on me, my posts were just me answering TSQ's Random Question spree. How could he consider the entirety of my posts if I did not post any other content other than the ones he had a problem with?

Why would he vote you then?

For being 'Blatantly opportunistic'.

[VasudeVa]

I love it when people misspell my name. Tee hee.

Unvote

I am beginning to think that Quagmire has a point. I remember that it wasn't Korts coaching me, it was mostly TSQ and Shanba wagging their fingers at my bad theory. He corrected me only once, and there wasn't really much in it. So he doesn't really merit my defense on him. Rather he just moved from townie to a null tell.

I'll let you guys handle your own little squabble.

We seriously need to make our minds up. Too many suspects, primarily because everyone has their own targets. It's kinda looking like lurkers going after lurkers and actives going after actives in a clusterfuck of hypocrisy. Amazing, really.

I still dislike dahill but the wagon's all busted now. I agree with Anon that mipe is the next best potential wagon so let's go there. springlullaby needs some attention too.

vote mipe

Vote Count

DizzyIzzyB13- FeFiFoFum (L-10)
VasudeVa- dahill1 (L-10)
scotmany12- springlullaby, iamausername, inHimshallibe (L-8)
Springlullaby- DizzyIzzyB13 (L-10)
dahill1- Ksun482, Thestatusquo, RichardGHP (L-8)
Richard Massive- theopor_COD (L-10)
mipe - PaltryExcuse, Shanba, Anon, VasudeVad (L-7)
FeFiFoFum - Korts (L-10)
Korts - Quagmire (L-10)
RichardGHP- scotmany12 (L-10)
With 20 alive, its 11 to lynch

Not Voting:

ImmuneShadow
Richard Massive
Mipe

~What gets wet as it drys?~

[VasudeVa]

I dislike how comfortable mipe seems to be with being lynched. This feels like scum shrugging it off, just to seem town.

Claim then Lynch plz.

[VasudeVa]

@Quag: Do you want to carry a player like mipe until later?

Preferably? No. Is dealing with players like mipe the goal of mafia? No. The goal is to find scum. I've found scum in Korts.

Well, you certainly have been doing a bad job at arguing for it. I agree that Korts is suspicious because he seems to be ignoring your bitching about him. However you are failing to make town agree to your case.

But it's probably mostly people trying to get to D2 ASAP. D1 apathy sucks.

[VasudeVa]

I'd be fine with a ksun wagon. My main problem with mipe is that he is actively not doing shit and openly admitting it. I'd much rather for him to get replaced but until then..

Which is more scummy, me telling my flaws in the game, or someone else telling my flaws in the game?

If your flaws are scummy, you don't gain town points for pointing them out. Plus, I pointed them out before you did.

QFT.

Prods are in order methinks.

[VasudeVa]

The case on mipe is very clean cut, one of the better D1 cases I've ever seen. Early inconsistencies and the defense he's putting up is terrible. Clearly win-win no matter what alignment we get from him. Best lynch for D1 IMO. Quite surprised no hammering is going on really.

At first Quag's case on Korts was cute. Now it's quite annoying since he admittedly states that he has no proof but continues on with it. Getting some bad vibes from it actually. This could very well be a bad bus attempt, if they are both scum. Kind of like that kid in the playground: "HEY GUYS, IM BUSSING KORTS. LOOKATME! STOP LYNCHING MIPE, LOOKAT ME FIRST.........GUYS? "

Got nothing to back that up though. It just feels like it. Could be my inconsistent gut.

[VasudeVa]

Oh right. Bad wording on that one. But my point is this: his case against Korts is as empty as the ones he accuses Korts of. Which is why it's giving me scum bus vibes.

[VasudeVa]

Quag: Your case solely relies on Korts meta. You are saying that he has been a lettuce poster and his posts lack substance which is not how he usually plays. I do not know Korts style but so far he has been doing some normal things, nothing scummy yet no town tells either.

But making that case against him requires some proof on meta, which he has graciously provided us. You denied his challenge to study meta saying that it's personality based.

Hence, your case against him has no substance. Your case reads like a gut read trying to not look like a gut read.

[VasudeVa]

That makes sense actually. Although Korts' posts don't really register to me as lettuce posting. It looks more like typical D1 posting. Wagoning where ever and following arguments and stuff. Might read him in ISO.

Although, I really doubt that anything will come off this. Korts will have to wait till D2. Deadline is close enough for us to hammer. Any switch in wagons now will take too long for town to switch. Especially with this inactivity we have.

Never really thought large games would be this inactive. But w/e.

[VasudeVa]

I am thinking of the possibility of mipeJester. >.>. Especially since the game is called "Riddle Me This". What do you guys think?

[VasudeVa]

No wait, if he wanted the lynch, he would have claimed scum or something. Nevermind.

[VasudeVa]

mipe lynch now or no lynch D1. It is definitely too late now.

[VasudeVa]

Finally, activity seems to be picking up. mipe's wagon is still legit. However Paltry seems promising. I am liking Anon's accusations so far: every accusation he has make sense and do not feel like accusations for the sake of accusation. I disagree with ksun, he seems more likely to be a VI rather than scum.

I will be having a busy week due to my relatives visiting(and staying in mah haus). Will definitely have an effect on my activity but I will still post as much as I can.

[VasudeVa]

vote count please

Your ISO is as cold and barren as my sex life. The only reason I see for you to hang around and post whenever you are prodded is if you are scum. I am very tempted to lynch your ass out of this game. >.>.

[VasudeVa]

What the hell are you even saying Zoraster? First off, you didn't even read my posts if you think my one gripe against Vas was that he went after Korts. There was far more to it.

And secondly, I'm attacking people for attacking others? What the hell does that even mean. I think RichardGHP is scum because of his case against dahill. It was opportunistic, and contrived as hell. Did you even read my post on him? I attacked the validity of his case, not once did I say I think dahill is town. It seems like you are trying to accuse me of chainsaw defense, which doesn't work unless you know the alignment of dahill. Basically, your whole post condemning me makes absolutely no sense.

TheFonz case on izzy is fairly bad.

Mipe wagon is still awful. Ksun wagon has merit. Still prefer RichardGHP, who has never even responded to my post against him. inhim is pretty scummy too. I need to reread the case on paltry before I form an opinion.

I dislike the lame scum hunt attempt at the end. What are you trying to achieve with that?

[VasudeVa]

Don't like the Richard wagon. He's not as useless as three others. At least he makes an effort to stay in the game. mipe, FeFi and ksun, on the other hand, three are two-in-one policy/scum lynches.

[VasudeVa]

I'm thinking of a possible scum group effort to steer away from mipe's lynch. Votals feel so chainsaw defense-ish. . Although, it really sucks that we know nothing of anyone's alignment so far, hence these theories are baseless.

This close to deadline though, I think I'll go with the wagon with the townier vibes.

vote: ksun

[VasudeVa]

Mod request to stop editing votals into posts. Votals are easier to dig for if searched in ISO. Thanks.

[VasudeVa]

V/LA: 2 days or so. Putting a self moratorium on internet access due to some problems with RL.

Discussions so far is good, be catching up when I finish up things on my end.

[VasudeVa]

Yos is definitely scummy. His post here feels like it's grasping, and I disliked how he handled D1. Although, I still would like to know mipe's alignment, to further analyze the votals D1.

Korts and sora's deaths mean they were on to something that made mafia(s) feel threatened. With Korts, I see two things: Either FeFiFoFum or Richard scum(based on his prime targets) or Quag pushing for Korts to seem town. I'd like to see FeFi get replaced first before I pick one of the either, since he is my prime target with 2 scummy actions D1(wagoning with Ksun and lurkyness above all others).

With sora, it's the mipe wagon. Other than that, I got nothing. sora wasn't really a top contributor, so I don't exactly know what other motivation mafia had to kill him off.

That's all for now.

[VasudeVa]

Still here, be catching up soon. My other game took up most of my short mafia time in these busy days of mine. I like the Yos case, but I'm going to be following up with someone else who I've been suspicious of D1.

[VasudeVa]

Fuck, so many things to read and I'm busy as hell(on the verge of replacing out, actually.). Argh, I'll only be replying to those that I have immediate thoughts on. I really don't know where I stand with all the fingers pointed and long walls'o'text everywhere.

@Fonz: Why is lynching for information bad? I know it isn't optimal play, but it's a good enough argument. That and it's a three in one combo since it's also a good policy lynch in this case and Paltry's case is legit to me(I find behavioral changes as tells too, I'm a psych major 8D) Mipe is as useless as ever and is probably NK-immune.

@Shanba: I'd like to hear what you think of the major wagons D1. Which ones were scum driven and which ones were town driven?

@Paltry: Why me over mipe? And the FeFiFo post was me thinking I caught him online. Playing other game -> stop for a while to surf the net -> Saw FeFi new post and immediately set to posting something that will let me get a read on him. (The timestamps are slightly farther from what I remember though, but this is what I thought at the time and I will be honest with that.)

@Yos: You replaced in and hardcore tunneled Richard. That, to me, was ridiculously scummy.

[VasudeVa]

I like Furcolow. I lol'd at Yos' explanation. (Bastard Modding ftw!)

I like how Fur saw the connection between ksun/Anon/Richard with the requests for replacement though. Players don't PM mods for replacements, and town couldn't care less about ksun's shitty play. Scum do since ksun was a power role hence the requests. Good call, good call. Richard completely had me fooled though, he was a town read for me because I empathized with all the newbie bashing going his way but not anymore so I think I'mma ride the bandwagon thataway.

vote Richard

I can't help but feel that I'm a good choice for competing wagon so here's to discourage scum. Don't do it.

[VasudeVa]

Town needs more consensus. I'm a bit irked by lack of it. We are totally ignoring the whole team game aspect of Mafia. Plus, all these walls make reading a bitch. I still haven't learned how to filter bullshit from huge walls that make sense. >.>.

Right now, I'm fine with either Richard or Anon but Furcolow and Paltry is totally out of the question right now. If anything, those look like a baby scumdriven wagons(Hi mipe! Hi Anon!). I will never support what I think is a scumdriven wagon. Inhim looks promising too.

@iamusername: Why does the Anon case not apply to Richard?

[VasudeVa]

@InHim: If everyone weren't bringing up such good points against you, it would have been easier for me to blindly follow you. Quag isn't on my priority list right now, in retrospect my suspicion on him was mostly tainted by OMGUS and that's never good. I want to focus more on these guys who are currently taking heat and not add a new and would-probably-be-unsupported wagon.

[VasudeVa]

I cannot seem to get into this game as much as I would want to. But Anon lynch sounds pretty good right now. Mostly due to iamusername's case.

Vote:Anon

[VasudeVa]

How could anyone do anything with the minimal interactions there are in this game? I know I'm not the most active player on the roster but this is just terrible. >.>

[VasudeVa]

@Fonz: Is the reason why you are organizing a sudden deadline lynch on me only because I have been inactive and not posty? To tell you the truth, this game is moving far too slowly and it simply hasn't caught on to me internally. I kept promising some rereads and w/e, but the lack of overall player involvement is seriously de-motivating and thus procrastination ensued. >.>

I'm town though. I think my involvement in what eventually lead the ksun lynch should have given me some town cred. Check it out. See here, Izzy votes and thus making ksun the top of the votals by one over mipe and Richard. Now, if I were scum, why would I make one of the decisive votes that led to ksun's eventual lynch? More over, why would I bus my partner who would probably be replaced soon anyway? Unless of course, the scum team is {mipe, Richard, me, ksun}(lol, worst scumteam ever), there was no reason to bus this early.

I think this has given me enough town cred to last me this day at the very least(more probably, due to the activity level of this game >.>).

Further questions?

In other news, this game needs more activity. And

unvote

. I somewhat believe the claim.

[VasudeVa]

Of course not, and no-one who's put one iota of effort into reading what I just said, or what i said earlier, could think so. My main reason for suspecting you is that you seemed to support policy lynches on all the lurkers EXCEPT FOR THE ONE WHO WAS SCUM, and then abruptly changed your mind when he became the leading wagon.

Sooo, I can't change my mind if I'm town? And that was one post. Eventually, I changed my mind. Plus, ksun was the VI-iest of the lurkers(has the least posts and the least intelligent ones too). In fact, I was surprised he flipped scum.

Yes, I saw that. Did you miss the bit when I said 'I am basically certain that at least one of Richard, Anon and Vasude is bussing?' On the basis that all of you piled on immediately after ksun became the leading wagon with little or no reasoning. The reason you would do it as scum is obvious- PRECISELY because you thought it would give you town cred.

...at the cost of a Mafia power role at D1? Uh, okay. I still hold that I am one of the more decisive votes that lead to the lynch though.

Craplogic. Your partner was in the lead, was the wagon with most momentum, and deadline was impending. He might have been in line for replacement, but it wasn't going to be before the deadline, and there were other players in line to be replaced before him.

What do you mean 'craplogic'?. Three wagons:

mipe - PaltryExcuse, VasudeVad, ksun482, sorasagoof, RichardGHP, FeFiFoFum (L-5)
RichardGHP- scotmany12, Mipe, Yosarian2, Quagmire, korts (L-6)
ksun482- Shanba, dahill1, The Fonz, inHimshallibe, iamausername (L-6)

Dizzy votes -> ksun(L-5) leading wagon -> Instead of voting for Richard, (L-6 would be put to L-5 to tie with ksun wagon)...I move my vote from mipe to my alledged power role partner ksun(L-4)....?

Mipe(L-4) is now effectively out of the wagon race and ksun now has a clear 2 vote lead over the Richard wagon and was the likely lynch. Richard and Anon votes lead to eventual conclusion of the ksun wagon (L-2).

Well it's a damn good bus if I saw one. No awkward bus tension(especially since he was a PR), just a ruthless vote on early and on top of the others. Too bad it isn't one.

Also note that I was at a damn good spot to try and dissuade town and go for a Richard lynch(he had enough communal hate to be the lynch of the day anyway). But I didn't, so this is why I'm town.

Is this still craplogic?

[VasudeVa]

EBWOP: Mipe(L-6). Math fail. D:

[VasudeVa]

That's at...paragraph 4. D: Why didn't I post this with the other one on top? >.>

[VasudeVa]

I'm not exactly sure who to lynch now actually. I'll keep telling you guys what a bad idea it is to lynch me. I agree with Fonz' Zoraster idea though. Shanba also looks like a decent lynch. His last minute attempt to get Richard's lynch + 'a lynch is guaranteed~ vote to your heart's content!' thing is really suspicious.

[VasudeVa]

I'm not exactly sure who to lynch now actually. I'll keep telling you guys what a bad idea it is to lynch me. I agree with Fonz' Zoraster idea though. Shanba also looks like a decent lynch. His D1 last minute attempt to get Richard's lynch + 'a lynch is guaranteed~ vote to your heart's content!' thing is really suspicious.

[VasudeVa]

Vote: Shanba

Checking support. Richard's claim makes his ISO a special kind of scummy. The D2 deadline lynch kind.

"Oh look! I'm voting ksun!"(ISO 17) and then the ksun wagon picks up... "WAIT, Richard's where it's at!, look at my gigantic wall of text as to why! But I'm only voting for him because I think he's linked with inHim and Ksun! So, instead of voting for ksun, Imma counterwagon richard instead!"(ISO 28). Riight.

[VasudeVa]

I don't buy it. Explanations are secondary to the votes.

It's pretty damning that you didn't vote for ksun when you expressed interest in his wagon earlier in the game.

[VasudeVa]

@Fonz: What lynch? *snicker*

Mostly because of some discrepancies with my playstyle in other games as opposed to here. I mostly point out in my other games that I discuss more than the other players which should give me town cred. But here, I'm inactive as fuck primarily because of procrastination. With the sudden threat of a wagon, I felt like it's time to not procrastinate anymore.

Well, when I was looking for my vote which makes me obvtown, I saw the badbadbad Shanba vote. Hard to ignore when I had to analyze the all the votes that happened on that page.

@Shanba: Cool. Oh, may I point out that I like to ignore scumposting? I still hold to my belief that votes > explanations(since I'm a pretty gullible person IRL) and no matter how hard I look at it, I see a scummy vote. Someone who is not scum please defend him, so I'll go ahead and read your post. Scumbuddies do try too, so we know who to lynch tomorrow.

[VasudeVa]

Of course I didn't visit anyone, I can't. Do read into that though.

Vote: whoeverreplacedQuag

Good start.

[VasudeVa]

Quag - Korts push -> Korts dies for little to no reason(Korts wasn't exactly doing well D1) -> seemingly telegraphed 'Oh darn, I was so sure Korts was scum! *pout*

Fonz - Disliked the wagon on me + reluctance to join the zoraster wagon

Not sure on number three yet. Off the top of my head: scot or iamusername. Not yet sure though.

[VasudeVa]

What's a safe number of scum in a 20 player game?

Scot is so obvscum right now so imma be moving my vote thattaway.

Vote: Scot

quag_johnson gets lynched tom. .

Where the hell is Anon/Anon-replacemnt?

[VasudeVa]

Sooo, are we lynching scummany12 yet?

[VasudeVa]

Well, I looked at all the votecounts, and I copy-pasted the largest wagon into Word (if the wagon was on scum, I found the second-largest wagon). I then assigned a 'point' to a player everytime their name showed up on the document. VV was the leader with 15 points, followed by Cove & RichardGHP with 8 points each. In other words, he's been on the largest wagon 65% of the time, which strongly suggests that he's going for an easy lynch, which is a scum trait. Thus the vote.

Which is a pretty awesome case... aside from the fact that all the lynches so far are scum(I would have voted zoraster too if I wasn't away for deadline D:) + my d2 defense makes me real townie.

Covewagon smells like a scum wagon(Yes, any wagon I'm not on is a scumwagon.) don vote is a blatant attempt at a counter wagon. We lynch him tomorrow.

I don't get why PE post #1 is a scumtell.

zoraster's scot vote feels more like 'Hey scumbuddy~ I'm voting for you, *nudge nudge wink wink*. You aren't in any danger of being lynched any time soon anyway and this will make people like Amished think I am bussing prematurely incase I die for some reason!'.

Lynch scot, lynch don the next day = town victory yay! I think 4 is a safe number for scum in a 20 player game(or is it now? Not sure~). We got already got two, so yeah.

See you in a week or whenever I feel like posting in this slow game. D:

[VasudeVa]

I don't get why attacking the tell is suddenly chainsaw defense. Although, the fact that he was vehement about it even after the claim warrants a vote.

Vote: Dahill

[VasudeVa]

mipe -

PaltryExcuse

, VasudeVad,

ksun482

,

sorasagoof

, RichardGHP,

FeFiFoFum

(L-5)
RichardGHP- scotmany12, Mipe, Yosarian2, Quagmire,

korts

(L-6)
ksun482-

Shanba

, dahill1,

The Fonz

, inHimshallibe, iamausername (L-6)

mipe -

PaltryExcuse

,

ksun482

,

sorasagoof

,

FeFiFoFum

(L-7)
RichardGHP- scotmany12, Mipe, Yosarian2, Quagmire,

korts, Shanba

(L-5)
ksun482- dahill1,

The Fonz

, inHimshallibe, iamausername, Anon, RichardGHP, DizzyIzzyB13, VasudeVad,

Zoraster

(L-2)

zoraster- Anon, inHimshallibe, Mr. Chaos, DizzyIzzyB13, RichardGHP, Dahill1

Scotmany (5) inHimshallibe, Cove, VasudeVa, RichardGHP, dahill
Cove (7) scotmany12, Yosairan, Amished, Nachomamma8, don_Johnson, Mr. Chaos, Anon

D1 votals tell me either: 1. there should be more scum voting for Richard(otherwise, where would the scum votes be?) or 2. there is one more busser in the ksun wagon(an earlier one).

Number 1 seems unlikely considering the cove lynch has all of those players.
Number 2, however, seems to point to dahill(with a late Zoraster bus).

Vote stays.

[VasudeVa]

@Anon: It's either 1 or 2, leaning to 2, another busser.

No, I do not think that Richard is scum(as of now.). I do not detect an ounce of pressuredness/guilt on him. His defense is far too confident as scum.

Missed that one on dahill. I don't see scum reacting to one of their important dudes dying like that.

Guess the busser is iamusername then.

Vote: iamusername

[VasudeVa]

While I honestly don't mind getting lynched, you really should lynch that scummy player slot who isn't getting replacements first.

Just sayin'.

[VasudeVa]

Vanilla. Lynch away. Just make sure you go after iamausername afterwards.

[VasudeVa]

PoE. Everyone else helped lynch scum/helped clear someone etc. He's the only one left.

Plus, I'm speculating on where the scum votes would be at D1, when most everyone was still here. My bus theory is there.

If you don't like it, don't buy it. Given how horribly I played/am playing in this game, I shouldn't make it to endgame anyway, so I gladly give myself up for the lynch.

Vigs shoot IAAUN. Then let's celebrate.

[VasudeVa]

How they helped lynch someone via votes @ deadline. How they helped clear someone, totally needs an in depth reread and I do not want to do that.

2. iamausername Dr.Cyanide - ksun
3. RichardGHP - ksun , zoraster
4. doc_johnson Quagmire - cove
5. Mr. Chaos Thestatusquo - zoraster, cove
7. VasudeVa - ksun
8. Amished DizzyIzzyB13 - ksun, zoraster, cove
9. scotmany12 -cove
11. Anon -ksun, zoraster, cove
12. Nachomamma8 mipe - cove
17. Yosarian2 springlullaby -cove
18. inHimshallibe -zoraster, cove
20. dahill1 -ksun, zoraster

----
Now then, I'll apply points on how much town points being involved in the lynch is depending on my interpretation on how important this dude was to the scum team.
ksun lynch = 1 point(useless player deadline lynch)
zoraster = 2 points(semi useful partner, but deadline lynch)
cove = 3 points(he's was a murderer, and he was at least active)

Add 'em up, and it's me and IAAUN with the lowest totals.

Of course, since I know I'm town, IAAUN is the only one left in my PoV. Soo, there. But I can totally see why I am in the lynch list for the day given that I have the same points as IAAUN from this alone.

Feel free to vig me if the game is still on by then.(I think IAAUN is the last scum left. Agree? Y/N)

[VasudeVa]

Actually, looking at that again, it's either you have 3 points(and above) or you don't.

So, it's me and him left. Lynch/Vig away.

[VasudeVa]

IAUN flaking could also explain the lack of NK.

Get the rope, all of you.

[VasudeVa]

IAUN flaking could also explain the lack of NK.

Get the rope, all of you.

Pay attention.

I haven't been paying attention since, like, page 30.

[VasudeVa]

Vote: Don

Bah, Why was IAAUN town?

[VasudeVa]

I really don't see how that Cove lynch made scot autotown.

[VasudeVa]

Vote: Chaos

[VasudeVa]

Why haven't we won yet? D:

[VasudeVa]

Vote: Richard.

I am not the odd night tracker

[VasudeVa]

Vote: Don

[VasudeVa]

Excellent scumhunting by Amished and Yos btw. I learned a lot from you two.

While this isn't the best game I played, I liked how you guys distinguished scummy townies from scum.

[VasudeVa]

Yeah. I'm D1 lynchbait whenever I'm town. I need to work on that. >.>.