Mini 953: Star Control: Alliance Initiative (Over)

[CF Riot]

You boys are quick. Confirming.

[CF Riot]

Official Vote Count

Players needed to lynch: 7

bouncy.bouncy

- 1 - Gammagooey - (L-6)

Plum

- 1 - Merkabah - (L-6)

Porkens

- 1 - Plum - (L-6)

Riceballtail

- 1 - animorpherv1 - (L-6)

Players not voting: bouncy.bouncy, CF Riot, cruelty, Dry-fit, Kast, Papa Zito, Porkens, Riceballtail

Papa is scum too, but a cool guy, so let's keep him around for a while for suspense.

I sent you a Syreen smooch, Zito.

I just found all the scum. Damn, I'm good at this game.

Vote: Zito

as he's the linking factor.

[CF Riot]

garbage pale kids

Trash Can Trolls.

[CF Riot]

What do you think my secret reasons for voting Dry are?

Non-existent. None of the questions you asked are scum hunting. This has been a fluff post.

More votes on Zito.

[CF Riot]

@Gamma, not bullshit in the sense that you made it all up, just bullshit in the sense that it's weak and not really any more valuable than a random vote.

@Plum/Dry, I really don't

expect

anything. I'm just promoting my current suspect as the one we should all latch onto. What's the point in taking a stand if you're not going to convince anyone else to listen? Two people start the game off with his name in their post. Maybe he's just popular, but it's something to go off of.

[CF Riot]

Gamma gave reasoning, but like I said, I don't think it means anything. So to me, it may as well be random. But on the flip side of that, I said it doesn't look to me like a fabricated excuse for a vote. I think Gamma's vote is sincere. So really the vote doesn't seem scummy to me.

I'm not sure what to think of Zito calling Plum town. I've never played with either of them. Maybe Zito is just talking and it means nothing. Maybe he knows something and he's being serious. Maybe he knows something but he's lying. It's hard to tell this early on. But since all I can do right now is guess, that one comment doesn't mean enough to me to not vote for him.

[CF Riot]

@Gammah-
Promoting discussion is good. Promoting discussion about pure theory is not always good. It sometimes makes it easier for scum to actively lurk.

Agreed.

Just realized, Zito why would I be voting Gamma? I kind of assumed you were voting him when you asked me but apparently not.

Rice, why are you voting him right now?

[CF Riot]

As he's stated several times, it's serious. I'm not sure how you've missed this, but I ask you again if this affects your read.

I'm not sure what to think of Zito calling Plum town.

<snip>

Maybe he knows something

and he's being serious.

Maybe

he knows something but

he's lying. It's hard to tell this early on.

I thought this pretty much answered your question but I'll try to clarify. Zito made a claim, but right now there's no way to know whether it's true or not. On top of that, if I assume it

is

true, even then it only means Plum is town. It doesn't say anything about Zito. He could be scum randomly picking someone not in his group to call town. He could really have some info about Plum and her alignment, but still be scum or town himself. This all seemed obvious to me from the get go. So yeah, the claim is weird. Yeah, it makes me want to keep an eye on Zito. But no, it doesn't really tell me anything about his alignment right now.

Rice is active lurking. A "hunch" isn't good enough. I know there are other fairly inactive people right now too, but personally I think active lurking is worse than not posting.

I also don't like Dry's vote on Bouncy. It seems weak and forced.

Porkens, what raised your suspicion of Zito or lowered your suspicion of Dry to change your vote?

[CF Riot]

False. I said the Plum thing was a null on you until I got more info. I didn't say I didn't think you were scum. Now I will admit that the original reason I have for looking at you is other people bringing you up, and not something you've done yourself. It was not the strongest vote. But you currently have the most votes and it's early game, so all those factors combined make me comfortable leaving a vote on you.

So was there ever a reason to vote Gamma? Whether you think I'm scum or not, I feel like that was an honest question and I'd love to hear an answer.

[CF Riot]

@Zito: It's not so much that I think you're more scum, just that since you're all relatively close suspicion-wise (being that

everyone

is close this early in the game) I felt like keeping my vote where it was at the time. Wagons are useful for reading people, and not just the ones being wagoned. I also wanted to wait for you to answer my question, although after you explained your vote on me I kind of guessed that might be the reason.

On Ani, his last post here was on the 8th. Since then, he's posted in three other games.

• Here
  twice on the 10th.
  
  Here
  three times, again on the 10th.
  And
  here
  twice, once on the 11th and once on the 12th.

For that, I'd be okay voting Ani. The only thing that bugs me is Rice hopping on with no explanation

again

, and completely leaving her Gamma vote which never got an explanation for being there or for going away.

So, at this point I think I'd be okay voting Rice, Dry, or Ani, probably in that order. I'm also getting paranoia gut checks from Porkens for lack of content. It almost matches his meta to play like that D1, but in this game in particular it just looks like there's no effort.

Vote: Rice

[CF Riot]

Decided to do a lurk check on everybody but since there's no search feature right now it took a while, otherwise it would've been in my previous post.

Cruelty: Last post this game was on the 9th. Other posts, here on the 12th and here on the 10th, 11th, and 12th.

Plum: Last post here was on the 9th. Other posts here on the 12th and here

4 times

on the 11th and once on the 12th.

I think that puts both Cruelty and Plum on par with Ani lurk wise. Out of the 3 I'd say Plum has the most game related posts, which is a positive in her favor. Anyways there's the facts. Do with them what you will.

[CF Riot]

I think what PZ is saying is that you are voting him for something you declare null while also saying you see RBT and Dry-fit at least somewhat scummy.

Yes, I agree that is what he was saying, but it was not correct. See below.

PZ "currently [has] the most votes and it's early game"....so what? How is that a reason to leave it there when you see someone else as actually being scummy?

Two things here. 1, I never said Zito was null. I legitimately suspected Zito outside the Plum thing, which I've already said. 2, wagons are useful, and having one of my suspects with 3 or 4 votes on them (whatever it was) is more valuable to me than another one with only 1 or 2 votes. I've already said this too.

Why not vote Dry-fit, who you happen to find scummy, and who has just as many votes as PZ?

This was never the case.
----
Glad activity picked up. Rice's claim doesn't change my mind at all. Explaining actions now when he wouldn't before. Claims after only 1 person asks. Not defending himself at all or suggesting any new targets. Incomplete claim, and claims bulletproof which is extremely convenient. I say we get the rest of his claim out of him then let him swing.

Depending on flip (if Rice gets lynched) I'll be interested in these posts.

Best I can tell our town is disinterested and our scum are hoping I'll just end up as the default lynch. Sad situation is sad but I can't win this solo so I dunno what else you want me to do.

I think you're exaggerating a bit (except for the town being disinterested part.)

I agree RBT's vote is bad but I'm not sure he's scum for it.

this isn't deliberate inactivity, i'm just struggling to find anything to say that hasn't been said already. i hate day 1.


i'm gonna

unvote, vote rbt

.

i have to go for a 4 hour drive now, i'll try to post something meaningful when i get home this afternoon.

[CF Riot]

Yeah sorry. I get what you're saying, maybe I just worded that poorly. Obviously we'll consider the claim. If I'd already decided he's scum, there would be no reason not to lynch him before the claim anyways. I doubt it will change my mind though. 5 bucks says it's a red ship.

[CF Riot]

Bandwagoning desires aside, I feel like you were riding the vote on someone who wasn't even really that scummy to you when you could have been adding much more pressure to Dry-fit, who you had recently said was scummy.

At the time I started to suspect Dry, the vote was 3 for Zito, 1 for Dry. When it was 2 and 2 I wasn't yet suspicious of Dry. I feel like we're getting close to splitting hairs now though. The long and short of it is I wanted my vote on Zito so I left it there. Maybe there were better places for it, I liked it where it was.

----

Also, leaping ahead, [Riot] dissects my lurking, and Cruelty's, providing bolded links for impression value but not mentioning that the latest posts he uncovered were both extremely short and the three earlier ones were in a game approaching deadline. He seems to have done what might be called research but not given the Town with his empirical results any analysis or evaluation. Ehhhh.

This is just silly. I didn't really look too much into what was going on in outside games. All I was doing was checking to see who was around but not posting here. My evaluation was that none of you were posting here. That's as far as I intended to take it for now. I mentioned earlier in game that active lurking (among other things) is worse in my eyes than just not posting, so I'm not going to be too worried about it unless it becomes a pattern.

As for the links and such, that's just how I post. I don't really see what was wrong with it. If anything, providing the links lets other people look at the posts in question for themselves without my bias, so I'm not sure what you mean by "impression value". I would think you were implying that I'm being misleading, but that seems like the opposite of what I'd do if I were trying to direct votes. (WIFOM, I know. Whatever.)

[CF Riot]

Although bouncy+Rice might have been a setup trap we just took out.

What does this mean?

So assuming we believe everyone's claims,

• Gamma targeted Cruelty? Porkens?
  Cruelty targeted Porkens
  Plum targeted Porkens
  
  and
  
  Porkens is still in the same ship and alive.
  Gamma lost his ship but is alive and in space.

So the question is, is Cruelty the reason Gamma is in space, and is this a good thing or a bad thing? I take it that Gamma didn't put himself there. Did Cruelty destroy Gamma's ship, and if so why is Gamma alive?

The next issue is who is picking up Gamma tonight? Should we all try? Do we even want to discuss it in thread?

[CF Riot]

What made you want to protect Porkens specifically?

[CF Riot]

293 and 295 bother me. This looks a little fake. Ani, who is scum?

I like the Dry hate though. His posts from yesterday concerning Rice look like trying to stay off the wagon if possible, but being ready to hop on if needed to push the lynch through.

Vote: Dry-fit

I don't think Cruelty is off the hook, but at the moment his claim checks out. I wouldn't lynch him given just what we know now.

[CF Riot]

Wow. My last post was Tuesday. I've been reading everyday pretty much. Just, not much to say.

Still comfortable with a Dry lynch.

I flip flop on Merk. I disagree with a lot of what he posts but I have a hard time deciding if it's scummy or not.

@Bouncy, please tell me what you think I have not followed up on and I'll tell you why you're wrong. Bouncy's D1 play didn't bother me at all. Even today, I don't see much of what he's done as scummy. His scum list intrigues me though. I think Kast has been pretty pro-town.

Gamma and Plum look town. Cruelty and Zito are gray area, but they're getting the benefit of the doubt.

I don't know why we're giving Porkens such strong town cred. In the past when I played with town-Porkens I felt like he was obv town for most of the game. He doesn't seem too scummy this game, but his lack of town feel (IMO) makes me worry.

Then there's Ani. For the longest time I was scrutinizing Ani and he was leaning scum in my head. But rereading and trying to look at the big picture, I'm thinking now that he's town, if somewhat flailing and discombobulated town.

I think that pretty much sums up the world of Riot right now.

[CF Riot]

Vote: Merk

Anyone specific need to hammer today? Porkens?

[CF Riot]

Huh. Well that's awesome. I figured you guys would have lynched the last scum and the game would be over by the time I got here.

So, I don't have anything of interest to report. Uhh... honestly I'm semi stumped. I guess at this point I'm looking at everyone. This late in the game, I think the thing I'm most interested in is Zito revealing how he knew Plum was town this whole game. Up until now I've just bought it cause Plum has been fine and there were other scums, but now I don't think there's much he loses by telling us and it's bugging me that someone who claimed something like that D1 is still alive.

After that, it's anyone's game I guess. I'm going to reread and see if I can speculate on night actions to see who stands out. I question the value of a mass claim in a game where scum certainly have safe claims, but with 6 left and 3 dead scum, I feel like we should consider it.

Gamma, are you suggesting a Kast vote on that last post? Can I get some reasoning behind that?

[CF Riot]

Oh okay. Makes more sense. Normally I'd wait for this but I don't think I'm risking anything.

N1 I tracked you (Gamma). The destroyed Avenger you saw D2 was mine. It had a cloaking ability that let me either track, watch, or hide. Animorph beamed me aboard his ship that night, so I got no result and my ship blew. For the longest time I was torn over whether he was scum or not and chit chatted back and forth with him in a QT about it, but when he voted me I asked him about it in that thread and his response convinced me he was town. That was why I wasn't posting much D2 and why my opinion of Ani changed between D1 and early D2 to late D2. N2 he somehow kicked me off his ship and put me on a new one. This is why only 2 ships blew N2 but 2 people died AND Plum was in space. Apparently Porkens already knows some of this about me. I can give as much detail about this new ship as needed if there's some specific way that the previous owner would like to confirm (assuming they're not dead).

None of this really confirms me as town, but it does help I think.

Next, how exactly do we *know* that Zito was shot, and if he was, how do we know that wasn't an SK kill immunity? Also, can Porkens confirm that he successfully picked up Plum?

[CF Riot]

What do you want to know? Not being difficult, I just don't know what else I could tell you about it. Also, why are you still awake?

[CF Riot]

Official Vote Count

Players needed to lynch: 4

CF Riot

- 1 - Gammagooey - (L-3)

Players not voting: CF Riot, Kast, Papa Zito, Plum, Porkens

Animorph beamed me aboard his ship that night, so I got no result and my ship blew.

No result = nothing at all. No question marks, no "you did not get a result" PM, nothing.

Also, just for funsies, I picked you because D1 was wide open and you were claiming to get powers on hammer, so I thought at the very least I'll be tracking someone who has the chance to do something.

[CF Riot]

Sorry for clogging up the thread, but I keep remembering things after I submit. If you remember from early D2, I admitted in thread that I didn't know who you targeted.

Link

.

[CF Riot]

How do you know Papa didn't target anyone N1? I thought you tracked Cruelty to Porkens. Also, there was only 1 kill N1 so that's entirely possible.

Can I guess at Porkens' answer to the Ani question? I think I know them both, and I think I know who the last scum is.

[CF Riot]

Oh PORKENS said it? My guess is thrown off now but it wouldn't have mattered anyways. I noticed a flaw in my theory.

So we are certain that Gamma is on Zito's ship, and Plum is on Porkens' ship? The kills from N2 aren't making any sense to me. Either Plum's ship did not explode after she jettisoned, or someone is piloting Ani's ship. I don't think Ani and Cruelty died together, otherwise I would expect Ani's flip to be all ???s too, or for him to just survive.

If we mass claim I vote Zito or Kast goes first, but if Kast still isn't around then I don't mind skipping him. And preview edit says that's about what you guys think too. I've already half-claimed so I don't mind finishing it out before everyone else. The only thing is I'm on someone else's ship, and I don't know who it belongs to. Should I claim the ship I'm on when I claim? I feel like there's some kind of process here that would make this situation useful, but Idk how to go about it.

[CF Riot]

I'm on the ship alone, I know that for sure. But what I mean is, it's not the ship I started on, and I don't know where it came from. I'm pretty sure Ani put me here, because we talked about it D2 when I was on his ship, but that's all I know. I don't think this is Ani's ship either, but I could be wrong.

If there's some explanation for what happened to your ship then I'll just wait for it but that was confusing me earlier when I was trying to figure out who's ship this is.

[CF Riot]

Vote: Kast

Waiting on SpyreX to tell me if the wording of my ship claim is legal. Don't want to be modkilled. I think it will pass. I'm 99% sure that Kast is scum though.

[CF Riot]

Kast is scum. I'm on an Ur-Quan Dreadnought. It's a green ship. It has a passive of 1 shot NK immunity, and 2 other abilities that are racial and can destroy ships and absorb batteries (drains X amount from target ship and transfers to this ship.) It's got 0/5 battery right now. I'm not really sure how Kast killed Bouncy last night. Ani never mentioned anything about his ship being able to kill.

[CF Riot]

Just the ship. All players get jettisoned.

[CF Riot]

I know that you're Ur-Quan, I'm just assuming you're some disgruntled Ur-Quan that wants to rule himself or some other flavor related reason which makes you an SK. This ship has all the makings of an SK. Kill immunity, ability to destroy ships, investigation immune because of it being green. It also makes perfect sense that you would have limited battery and a skill to recharge, because this would mean you couldn't kill every single night, thus balancing 4 scum in a 12 man game.

The "Oops, I shot you on accident" thing is SUPER weak. I would think that even if you did mean to drain his battery and the Mod made a mistake (unlikely on its own) then I would still expect you to make the connection between his ship blowing up and the fact that

you have an ability that does just that

. AND even if Kast-town decided not to mention the fact that you were the one to blow up Gamma's ship because you didn't want scum to know your powers, you would still understand why your battery was at 0 and not claim to have been drained.

Do you have any explanation or speculation as to why Ani died the night you joined his ship, but you and the ship are still here?

tl;dr, Kast is still scum and I think this is pretty much obvious. Just for the sake of good play, I say we finish the mass claim in case I'm wrong, but I highly doubt I will change my vote.

[CF Riot]

Good game town. Complicated set-ups are always going to be confusing and hard to mod, but that's what makes them fun. Looking at the way things went down I sort of thought the mafia team was at a disadvantage, but after seeing all the night actions and roles I think that the town just played a very good game and got a little bit lucky at just the right times. Kast played a good game as SK as well. Up to D4 I thought Kast was very pro-town, and until Porkens told me he was the one I got ship-swapped with, I was really thinking Zito. Had I not gotten the gift of seeing SERIAL KILLER HERE plastered all over his ship's role PM, I'm sure I could've easily been the next mislynch.

What was the deal with Plum's ship not exploding that one night? I could probably figure it out if I reread but I don't remember seeing anything in the role PMs that explained the situation.