Lay of Leithian Mafia: Game Over!

[J-Scope]

Vote: Drippereth

This town ain't big enough for the both of us!

[J-Scope]

I don't see any thing in claiming scum/scumbuddies to be inherently town.

There's nothing in signing your name at the bottom of each post that's inherently town, either - that's obviously not sufficient to suspect someone. It has to be, you know, actually suspicious. Do you find it suspicious?

This is a ridiculous example, but I'm sure you were aware of that when posting. What's the point of comparing those two things (signing your name, and claiming scumbuddies, I mean they're not at all similar)

I too find the claiming of scumbuddies to be suspicious and have voted people for it in the past. No evidence to suggest scum are more likely to do it though, it's just one of those things I find scummy.

Anyway xvart reads town to me thus far, and I think the justification for the votes on him thus far are quite poor.

Hey socrates what was so 'lame' about post 44?
The only xvart post that mildly concerns me is 46 but the rest have his posts have been quite good.

Are serious votes really being placed about the first RVS post in the game?

Are you seriously questions serious votes being placed about the first rvs post in the game?:roll:

Also 'Overreaction and opportunism' are lovely buzz words, but really I don't see either of them being applicable. Examples.

Starbuck used similar rhetoric as town ("Bella's Mom") D1 in Twilight IIRC. D1 lynch.

Yeah, something like that. However that game was ages ago and I'm sure she's played differently since then. Also it was more her objecting to zwet claiming in the pregame phase there, I think than anything else.

Xofelf you dedicate a lot of time to what seems to be a playstyle difference. I mean, I don't agree with Sens but he appears consistent in what he does (from reading md on his rvs policies). It just seems like content for the sake of content to me.

I'll probably not end up signing most of my posts due to forgetfulness, but I don't think me and Jahudo should be that hard to tell apart anyway.

[J-Scope]

Overreaction to what he said, thus the bandwagon on him.

And opportunism because it's the pushing of something easy.

He had like 3 or 4 votes, hardly something to be concerned about. It's not like they threatened to quicklynch him within a page. It was hardly an overreaction since people found it scummy (obviously)

How is it oppurtunistic though...if people find it scummy, it's opportunistic to vote for it? I don't see it, at all. It just seems like a word people throw out, even if it doesn't always apply.

When EK replaced, I did want to give her a clean slate to start from, especially after all the fucktarded things that Zwet did. I truly felt, and still feel, that he ruined the game and that led to my eventual lynch.

I sincerely hope you don't think zwet was the cause of your lynch in that game. I mean, if you do I've no idea what to say, but I think I can see the point iec was trying to make in general, even if I don't find it all that telling, as it seems more of a playstyle quirk than an alignment tell.

@ Steam Powered Shovel, I'm aware what scummy actions are, I should have said data instead of evidence.

I think people calling it a scum tell and pushing it as scum is over the top.

I don't really see anything over the top about it really.

[J-Scope]

Sure, why aren't more people voting xvart?

I do not believe xvart is scum, good drippereth.

[J-Scope]

MehPlusRawr has confirmed but not posted on the site since Thursday. Not worth a vote now.

-------------------
I'm interested to hear what xofelf has to say about SensFan calling BS on her meta on him. She acknowledged its been a long time since she's played with him, but still claims to know Sens' meta pretty well.

-------------------
@Steam powered shovel: no one looks scummy yet to you? not even people pushing wagons you don't think are productive?

-------------------
I want to know why Jack decided it was a good time to talk about breadcrumbing. Its distracting from other topics that were just starting to get good attention (xofelf's meta claim, a new wave of xvart votes and defense), which is a bit suspicious coming from someone who hasn't been scumhunting.

unvote;
Vote: Jack

Hey Elmocrates, would you like an avy of that cat but maybe wearing a greek beard?

[J-Scope]

@Elmocrates:

[J-Scope]

Ok, so nothing odd about what xofelf said about how she reads SensFan's play. That was a dead end.

However, the fact you see an inactive lurker to be more worth your vote is just plain odd.

If you are looking for interesting things to comment on:
xvart seems to compulsively misrep/generalise. Agree/disagree? Scummy or not?
Jack made a random cop breadcrumb comment and and produces little content. I found that scummy. Do you agree?

Meh's not posting in other games the last time I checked, so there's no reason to think he's ignoring this game yet. At least Jack is ignoring alot of events in this game by talking strategy well after RVS; well talking once then trying to deflect attention.

I'll let my other half backup his town read on xvart, but I also don't find him scummy. Pressuring Els early looked valid, its a meager reason but something to build on by saying town wouldn't put out that WIFOM to the group. And I agree with him that Elmo's analogy is not similar. Signing a name should be a null tell, without any WIFOM. However, I also believe Else was talking about another game, so he wasn't sending out any WIFOM at all. Case closed, move on.

With Jack, like I'm going to reiterate for kmd, I find him scummy for talking strategy instead of scumhunting. I don't know how my other half feels yet.

-----------------------

I want to know why Jack decided it was a good time to talk about breadcrumbing.

Its distracting from other topics that were just starting to get good attention (xofelf's meta claim, a new wave of xvart votes and defense), which is a bit suspicious coming from someone who hasn't been scumhunting.

Bolding mine. No, we don't want this info. It should have never come up and shouldn't be discussed now. This reeks of scum trying to spring up a discussion about who a townie thought might be a power role. Basically, extended rolefishing.

I'd vote you on this alone if the xvart wagon wasn't so good.

I wasn't asking him to explain who he thought was breadcrumbing; I was asking him why he wasn't scumhunting when there were scums to hunt. The next sentence explains that. He was distracting from better topics, hence my vote on him for not giving any content while talking useless strategy.

[J-Scope]

gonna catch up on w/e i've missed.

[J-Scope]

EBWOP: nvm. Hi, Faraday. <3

'Ello baby.

Xvart is using bad logic and wrong analogies in most of his posts, but i'm not sure if it is town bad logic or scum one.

Is he? I'd like some examples.

Ooba's hop onto the xvart wagon was lolz.

Budja's 136 looks like someone who just wants to throw out a few general comments on the game but doesn't really care to scumhunt.

You've just quoted my point. They are exactly identical in the property I stated: they're not inherently town. Suspecting someone on the basis they performed an action with that property is nonsensical. Which is the point.

Yes, but it's pretty clear to me from the initial vote that xvart found it scummy, and not just 'not inherently town'. I also thought this was apparent, hence my confusion at such a ridiculous example.

So far the only thing I have to say is, breadcrumbing your role if you're a cop is stupid.

inb4 shitstorm.

What in the blue blazes does that statement have to do with anything Jack?

If you THOUGHT you saw it from someone this game, why would you make any mention of it?'

If not from this game... why?

Have you played w/ Jack before? I know you hate meta ETC but this seems like the sort of comment he'd make. It's probably not even game specific at a guess.

Post 184 is good.

I don't like Icerint. He seems off. I respectfully disagree w/ Jahudo's vote on Jack too.

Xofelf continues to talk about Sens and only sens. I want her stance on..anything else. And I've not seen it. Hey xofelf who do you find scummy? Top 3?

Hey Cobalt are you scum? I'm jw and would really like an answer.
Where's fefifofum btw. He put a vote on xvart and disappeared.

I wish J-Scope would have gone into a bit more detail about why he has a town read on xvart in Post 99. He does put into words rather nicely my feeling about xofelf's post however.

Sorry I usually don't go into too much detail on town reads, it's mostly gut. Basically I've liked all his responses and I don't think they've been scummy. Some of the votes on him look bad too. I've modded him twice (he was town both times) and I like to think I can read him pretty well.

Bolding mine. No, we don't want this info. It should have never come up and shouldn't be discussed now. This reeks of scum trying to spring up a discussion about who a townie thought might be a power role. Basically, extended rolefishing.

I'd vote you on this alone if the xvart wagon wasn't so good.

Xvart wagon is a bad wagon. Also in what way is that rolefishing? Taken the whole context of the paragraph and not just the bolded makes it clear what Jah is saying.

Content is such a buzzword.

Cobalt isn't particularly playing different from the game I saw him as town in.

He's far less active than both games I've played with him, I'm not sure.how he plays as scum.

I'm bored taking notes. Gonna finish reading the game and switch the vote though.

I'm going to give everyone fair warning right now. Any more mention of the fact xofelf and I dated, and I replace out. No ifs, ands, or buts.

BUT...

Scumlist
fefifofum
budja
icerint

spyrex/papa zito/xofelf are all posibillites too.

unvote vote fefifofum

I SMELL THE BLOOD OF AN ENGLISHMAN, Jack.

starbuck might be scum too actually. might need to review that a bit later. unsure on cobalt. cyberbob's posts look okay after the odd first one actually.

[J-Scope]

this whole thing is really stupid

xofelf is lurky from memory, she pretty much lurked in twilight mafia untill being replaced (BY IEC?) and was town there.

ffff is lurking like a mother fucka',

can we get a prod on him miss plum?

it's been a week since his last pist

[J-Scope]

so why the fuck did she lie? i don't see the scum motivation behind it, since it can be fairly easily disproven (she can't link, etc) so the whole thing just fucking baffles me and seems like one big distraction.

[J-Scope]

Mod: Can you prod KMD?

He's been on the site this week, but mostly in GD and Mish-Mash. Hey KMD, did you forget about the thread or are you just busy?

---------------------------

Oh. That's interesting. Are you claiming that she is conciously lying? Xofelf, would you also say that SensFan is lying on this last quote?

Is this the first time you've heard him claim she was lying? I think it was first brought up last week sometime, so how did you miss it before?

---------------------------

Steam-Powered Shovel:
Post 83 - Calls the Els wagon dumb without saying why. I think it allows him to ignore a large part of the discussion as a way to fly under the radar.
@SPS: Why did you think the Els wagon was dumb?

Post 108 - Pushes a random wagon as far as page 5, when most people were out of the random voting stage. That allows him to keep from posting content, but his honesty in calling it a random wagon increases his visibility for doing something that anyone can jump on and criticize when other people are already scumhunting. I don't see the benefit for doing it as scum.

---------------------------

FFFF looks more inactive than lurker to me, based on msutils search. Faraday and I just can't agree on a vote
Though I can see Jack as town more and more, like after his Els vote.
Meh needs to acknowledge that there's other people in the game, and not just give a read on one player. And he calls SPS out for not scumhunting. Meh's content is Meh.
Welcome to the game Nachomamma!
Anon needs to get internets and explain his other reads. Elvis is obv town tho.

[J-Scope]

I changed my mind about xofelf, after careful examination and much soul-wrenching. She's town.

what do you think of sens (just iso him to check) I did and it appears a large part of what he's been involved in can fall into 2 main things 1) early rvs dicsussion, which was fair enough and 2)xofelf hate.

sens who else do you think is scum? or if you've actually said that before and I've missed it, sorry, but a post number would be helpful.

[J-Scope]

j-scope

I don't really see anything over the top about it really.

so you think that xvart's point against Elscouta comment is correct? You find that him pushing the issue is normal?

missed this due to the quote being odd, but yeah. I've done it before myself so I see it as a reasonable thing to do.

[J-Scope]

@Xofelf:

I never said you had a meta either. Because, you're right, you don't. BUT the way you respond to everything is different each game depending on alignment in every case i've seen.

Are you saying that he responds in a similar way when he's town in different games? How is that not meta? What is your definition of meta?

Also, did you count the games NOT on this site that you and i have played?

You say game

s

, as in multiple games. How many were you thinking of when you made that claim?

I never said games that were finished.

Is this about the mod abandoned GNE game only? Or are there unfinished games on this site? If they were also unfinished, how did you know his alignment?

About Jack, i think it's the way he posts as if he's a bystander rather than actually playing.

What posts look like he's a bystander? Or are there posts missing from his game that would make him not look like a bystander? What things is he not being involved in? How are you not a bystander, since you haven't commented on wagons like xvart, SPS?

Unless you have a perfect memory of every single thing you have said over the phone or via IM, you have no 100% guarantee that you never said anything.

This is literally a "he said, she said" point. I don't know how any of us could side with one person over the other in this aspect of the debate.

---------------
This is Jahudo, Faraday is under the weather. I'm about ready to move our vote off FeFiFoFlaker, but I gotta see how he feels about SPS. And I gotta look at him again too.

[J-Scope]

@Steam-Powered Shovel

Do you need examples of me acting this way when town?

Am I just being bandwagonned for playing my normal game here or does anyone have a real argument against me?

Why do you feel the need to try and defend your actions through meta? If you think you're playing in a way that's pro-town, wouldn't you have a problem with people not liking your playstyle? Or at the least, not have a problem with how other people view your playstyle?

Scum might defend using meta because they think they are playing to their town meta. So those two quotes look like a questionable defense, if that was their intention.

unvote, vote: Jack

, he seems to be acting deliberately unhelpful.

Was this a bandwagon vote, or a vote because you thought he was scum? Or both?

[J-Scope]

FeFiFoFum: why do you think xvart is scum? Details, details!

[J-Scope]

xofelf promised a post on Monday. There's still some time to make it. Hopefully it will have a better read on Jack and others, but also a claim.

unvote;
Vote: xofelf

[J-Scope]

@Starbuck: what do you think of the Shovel wagon, and of Shovel the player?

@KMD: Have you read xofelf and Shovel's ISO's lately? They're a quick read.

@Nachomamma: Pick a side: xofelf or Shovel.

@FeFiFoFum:

Okay I liked the Xvart train better than the xtalt

Who is xtalt? Do you mean xofelf? Why is it a worse train?

[J-Scope]

Jscope, so they are both lurker wagons?

I don't believe this is what was said. Where'd you draw that conclusion from?

if we were lurker lynching fefifofum would be dead ages ago I'd have thought.

[J-Scope]

I don't feel that I have contributed enough to be on this train, but I will help insure the lynch.

vote: xofelf

cool story bro.

[J-Scope]

Role info on ability.

Um what this is obviously bullshit

There's literally no ROLE INFO on abillity that could lead you to believe we're scum. At all. Simplest explanation = you're lying.

Vote Fefifofum

Jack what are your thoughts on all this?

[J-Scope]

vote j-scope.

jscope thoughts?

Somewhat confused, but I think ffff is very likely scum now so it's all good.

[J-Scope]

didn't target farside, reading back.

[J-Scope]

I would assume FFFF is lying if it comes to that, just cause he's FFFF. It kind of sucks to have a watcher role if the mafia group kill doesn't show up on it, but it's possible.

he's a watcher who somehow saw me target someone I didn't target and didn't see oba target the person he targeted.

[J-Scope]

If J-Scope flips scum then ooba's a partner.

Jack what are your thoughts on all this?

Why are you specifically asking him?

jack did anything happen to you last night? yes/no will suffice.

[J-Scope]

ffff is lying scum. lynch him.

[J-Scope]

@j-scope: yes

lovely. no bus driver shenanigans then. lynch the scum plz.

[J-Scope]

ffff are you drunk? no one targeted me? what?

and yes, that's what I'm implying CKD.

[J-Scope]

Yes, I think FFFF is the lying scum here, and Ooba didn't get a result because of how the mafia kill is done. Could have been a group kill, she could have been hit during the day and only died at night, etc.

Nah. I think Ooba just proves that FFFF isn't a watcher (Ooba targeted farside and ffff never saw him).

[J-Scope]

i'm off to class and stuff but yeah. it's pretty obvious he's lying.

he can't even keep his role straight.

[J-Scope]

Because I did lie.

I watched J-Scope last night.
He was targetted by no one.
But Since I have the Silmaril I am able to track as well.
I saw him Target Farside.

LMAO but that didn't happen.
(as has been confirmed, try and keep up)

[J-Scope]

FeFiFoFail

^ amen.

[J-Scope]

Quick Question: If FFFF is actually scum - why would he do this? Benefit?

It was a good play actually. He was probably going to get lynched or investigated at some point, so might as well claim with a fake result and either get a mislynch or out a power role.

Have we revived farside and destroyed xofelf yet?

Elscouta is very scummy.

Revive Farside
Destroy Xofelf

Elscouta's not the only one. Should be interesting to analyse this day later.

[J-Scope]

Okay, FFFF is acting unbelievable atm and I think he's the one lying.

Vote: FFFF

great post.

[J-Scope]

I think J-Scope's claimed "confusion" indicates he is probably the scum that targeted farside. If he had innocently targeted farside, he would have understood the basis of FFFF's claim, but disputed his interpretation.

Preview edit: only one player targeting him makes this even clearer

derp a derp derp. I don't think this is genuine.

papa zito should probably die soon too come to think of it.

[J-Scope]

I really don't like the diction of Elscouta's posts. Almost enough that since the evidence of the two intels are inflicting that I would rather lynch his ass today.

^^ thanks for the WIFOM.

[J-Scope]

An Elf Voyeur?

Really?

You take issue with THAT over this sort of shit?

Maybe Farside is a Suicidal Townie Elf. O_o. I don't know about any of this at all, I'm confused.

That is possible that farside had an ability to sacrafice himself to remove another player from the game, but that would leave me wondering about j-scope, and no scum kill?

Really now?

[J-Scope]

I really don't like the diction of Elscouta's posts. Almost enough that since the evidence of the two intels are inflicting that I would rather lynch his ass today.

^^ thanks for the WIFOM.

No problem :p

but in all seriousness I could see it happening that all three of us (me, you, and ooba) are town alligned by some kind of game mechanics.

Els would be my first lynch.

lol. ok.

[J-Scope]

Papa Zito, no Silmaril-fishing. If he does hold the Silmaril, then he could still easily be scum.

Oh don't be so lame. If someone else holds it then he's caught in a lie that no amount of crazy role shenanigans can explain away.

You too SocioPath.

he's already been caught in numerous lies? how many does he need to be caught in.

his whole explanation of why he did it is obviously bullshit and he needs to die.

[J-Scope]

good to know ffff is a complete fucking moron.

destroy sps
revive drip

hey CKD, you'll notice FFFF flipped watcher. what exactly would you like to hear from us? are you not reading the thread?

[J-Scope]

i think cobalt and anon need to die soon too. gonna read sps later.

sens is obv not a mafia kill to me, considering he was useless for the majority of the game apart from day 1 where his contributions were stellar.

[J-Scope]

that's 3 people not reading then thread properly. there's your explanation.

[J-Scope]

Jah here.

@CKD: FFFF did not track us to farside, that was another one of his gambits.

okay I'd like to come clean....


I am the watcher but I dont have the silmaril.
I did watch j-scope and no one targeted him.
I made up that he targeted farside just to go with my suspicion that since no one targeted J-Scope at night there was a chance that he could be scum.

@xvart, if you think we're town (by way of helping to revive us) I don't see why you'd want us to essentially full claim. So I'm not answering that.

Vote Count 4 - 01: Lynch

curiouskarmadog -

2

- Iecerint, Budja
xvart - 1 - Kmd4390
Anon -

2

- SpyreX, Jack
Iecerint - 1 - curiouskarmadog

Not Voting (11): Starbuck, farside22, MehPlusRawr, Papa Zito, Cyberbob, xvart, Anon, Cobalt, ooba, SocioPath, J-Scope

With 17 players alive it'll take 9 to lynch and 9 to no-Lynch.

Vote Count 4 - 01: Revive

Drippereth -

7

- Budja, Kmd4390, SpyreX, MehPlusRawr, Cyberbob, curiouskarmadog, J-Scope

Not Voting (10): Starbuck, farside22, Papa Zito, xvart, Anon, Jack, Cobalt, ooba, SocioPath, Iecerint

With 17 players alive it'll take 9 to revive. If a player has 9 or more votes to Revive, the choice is locked in and that player will be revived and return to the game proper when the lynch resolves.

Vote Count 4 - 01: Destroy

Steam-Powered Shovel -

9

- Iecerint, Budja, Kmd4390, SpyreX, MehPlusRawr, Starbuck, Cyberbob, curiouskarmadog, J-Scope

Not Voting (8): farside22, Papa Zito, xvart, Anon, Jack, Cobalt, ooba, SocioPath

With 17 players alive it'll take 9 to destroy. If a player has 9 or more votes to Destroy, the choice is locked in and that player will move

Beyond the Circles of the World

when the lynch resolves.

Steam-Powered Shovel

will move

Beyond the Circles of the World

when the lynch resolves. I will henceforth no longer note the Destroy count.

[J-Scope]

Vote: Anon

This is my (Jah's) top choice. Good wagoners and gut vibes, but also I don't know how Anon went after Els for that weak RVS misinterpretation of post 4 while not seeing anything suspicious with xofelf-Sens Fan fight in his post 622. I would think that someone scumhunting on the wavelength to find Els scummy would also have some bad feelings about xof/Sens. Them both being town looks like a gift horse to scum, just leave it be and reap the rewards.

I don't know if he could be scum with SPS (who better be scum), because Anon had a lot of suspects and SPS just happened to be the wagon he apparently had to settle for day 1. I don't like his case because it seems to fit Anon's play too.

Steam Powered caught my attention with iso 3. I find people who use jokes to support a game stance, inherently scummy. Cyberbob in iso 3 uses personal experience to back up a position that cant be generalized.

This coming from the guy who, after being told Elvis was not in the game, came back with another player read on elvis.

We don't need a Anon replacement as much as we need a Anon lynch.

Does Cobalt lurking = Cobalt scum? I've seen him post as scum, but he was under plenty of pressure then.

I'm also not feeling the CKD wagon, and I need to re-read the Iecerint case.

[J-Scope]

i'm okay with an anon lynch. i think cobalt is a better lynch.

Vote Cobalt

things are starting to improve. the day away increased the number of town reads by like 3 times the number.

don't really get the cyberbob hate.

need to fully read over the day I missed.

[J-Scope]

oh shit i missed a whole page.

[J-Scope]

Cobalt doesn't seem to be posting in other games either.

hm? i've noticed him posting quite a bit in certain games.

[J-Scope]

Why'd you pick Nacho? I'm sure you mentioned suspicion of his somewhere, but I cba looking back atm.

Jack's pretty town looking as far as J-scope are concerned (that's both heads leaning town on him fwiw)

Using flavour to completely justify a 2 man scum team is dodgy. I mean the mod may not stick to the flavour exactly. The lack of everyone flipping is annoying though. I want to see if Elscouta was town or not.

[J-Scope]

Looking over the player list I feel pretty good about a lot of people. Except I notice starbuck now. Tons of posting day 1, active lurking since then.

Not so much active lurking, but just completely fucking lost with this game.



I seriously have no issue being lynched. I'm not a PR of any kind and just a VT. I have a staunch "I don't replace out policy", so my apologies for everything just being over my head right now.

Okay are you another mufasa alt or something b/c this is seriously fucking head wrecking.

Why would you go and claim VT for no reason like that? Jesus i want to smash my head into a brick wall but it probably won't do any good and may leave me playing like ffff which is something I'd like to avoid.

Your don't replace out policy is stupid. You decide to ACTIVELY HURT the faction your playing for (if your town and for some reason i think you are) instead of replacing out. That's far worse than requesting replacement when you can't keep on top of the game.

I kinda think Starbuck is town here for some reason. But idk why. I'd not be adverse to someone shooting her in the face if possible though.

[J-Scope]

J-Scope, the insults are unwarranted.

How did I actively hurt my faction?

wut the guy above me said. surely you know why VT claims are a bad idea for no reason???

i stand by your policy being stupid, if that insults you then I'm sorry, but well w/e really.

oh Anon's latest posts have looked quite good to me. He was inactive site wide I guess, but it's glad to see him providing content. I find myself agreeing with a fair bit of what he's saying. Hmm leaning not scum on him now actually.

Cobalt's still a good lynch.

[J-Scope]

god i hope that daykill is real.

[J-Scope]

@Mod: Starbuck gets two wagons?

Oh hey, look, another votecount error

unvote;
Vote: Starbuck

The premature claim and indifference to being lynched hits a gut nerve. I can understand the reasoning of not wanting a replacement on your personal record, but if that's the case than why is a claim the best move in that situation?

Not so much active lurking, but just completely fucking lost with this game.

Starbuck, why not just leave it at that and try to regroup?

Point 1: It takes her weeks to find a case on somebody that would only take a quick ISO on the wagoners to find. It looks like she doesn't really want to understand the case that much, but is trying not to stay on the fence about it. Being lost should not apply here.

I really don't know the case on Shovel.

Can someone explain the case on SPS?

Point 2: She makes a case on Cobalt, lets it go for a long time, then seems confused why Cobalt is exhibiting the same tell that she based her case on. I feel like the normal reaction would be to re-present the case that's still accurate, rather than act like it didn't exist. Maybe she wants other people to take ownership of the wagon since its a question to them and not an answer by her.

On Cobalt
What's with all the voting and unvoting, but not saying a word?
...<snip>...
Posts like this do nothing to help the town.

Vote: Cobalt

And did anyone notice Cobalt hop in on Post 1156 to vote for SPS and not say a word?

Star, you should have a good feeling why he'd hop. He has done it before and both could be because he's scum.

-Jah out.

[J-Scope]

Jah here. We're still thinking about the cases on Iec, but Anon doesn't look like a great wagon anymore.

@CKD: How is your Iec vote not OMGUS? (I'm asking because I think I might be reading it wrong)

@Socio: what if Iec's town meta is the same as his scum meta in your point?

@xvart: what is your biggest point on Iec? One of these?

<snip>...
(ISO43 you say SPS posts are scummy, but not for the reasons MPR stated.)

(ISO54 that

if

Jack wagon scum exist that your guess is CKB

or

SPS.)

-----

@J-Scope, Cyberbob also questioned the SPS wagon and plently of people were sheeping (myself included day 1). So that point looks weak to me.

My point isn't about who questioned the SPS wagon, and your comparison is the thing that's weak. Cyberbob questioned the SPS wagon, then gave his opinion on the case. Starbuck questioned the wagon, but didn't give any comment beyond this: [qoute="Starbuck"]Thank you, Iec, for giving me somewhat of an idea about what the SPS wagon is about.[/quote]That doesn't say whether she agrees with it or not, or even thinks it's a valid case. And there's no further comment until she voted to destroy him. Ignoring any possible connections between whatever Shovel flips, her desire to know the SPS case looks fake given she didn't comment on it. Its just stalling and fence-sitting from where I'm standing.[/ooc]

[J-Scope]

Unvote Vote CKD

need a lynch and all that.

[J-Scope]

don't be twitching at me. deadline's today and we need CKD at l-1 so someone who might be scum can hammer.

kmd vig would have been fine by me, but his whole thing with the power passing on makes him more likely to be town, imo.

cobalt should be dying before day ends too anyway. hell he'd probably have been modkilled for not posting (i think this uses BAM ruleset)

[J-Scope]

Yeah it means a double lynch for the town every second day if he could be confirmed innocent in any way.

Not really.

Oh yeah, true. Never mind.

[J-Scope]

And another thing.

Why was J-Scope revive instead of Drippereth? The Drippereth hydra is several flavors of awesome blending harmoniously, and J-Scope is useless ballast.

WHY THE FAIL

???

We're cooler. This is obvious.

v/la for the next 2 days but I'm sure Jah will be able to check in.

Vote Icerint

since he's confirmed scum.

Revive Nacho

since he's confirmed town.

[J-Scope]

The notion that the J-Scope revive was whipped up by the scum needs to be seriously considered.

Don't be ridiculous. Just because you know you're town doesn't mean everyone else knew. Plus it's pretty obvious we were town after the ffff fiasco, I thought.

[J-Scope]

Hail Drippereth, new king of the land, etc etc.

RE: claim
If there are werewolves, or just maybe Carcaroth, it would make sense for there to be a Huan. I think he's either telling the whole truth, or lying completely and there are no werewolves. He would probably even have it as a fake-claim. Without a counter-claim, wouldn't it make sense to keep him alive a day to see if a werewolf kills him? Or does that lead to negative consequences I'm not considering?

@Spyrex
Would you know if your jailkeep succeeds or not? What if you were blocked?
I don't think town would block Spy, but scum might.


Reviving Nacho sounds good to me.

As for who to destroy, Cobalt was useless and CKD was wacky but Cobalt has been useless in other games recently and CKD didn't seem suspicious to me until that WIFOM about his role. I doubt Elscouta is Fallen Vala, but he could be something else. Els looked most like a vig NK out of the four people killed night 2. Ooba could be anything, but one possibility is that he was the Fallen Vala's NK. I have to think about it some more.

On a side-note MehPlusRawr doesn't look like a kinslayer but should still have his feet to the fire for active lurking.

-Jah

[J-Scope]

[/b]
I need to know cobalt's flip and something I got as a 1 shot ability leans me to believe Ooba may not be scum.

Nothing to do with OOBA, he was just a regular reporter style thing he claimed.

I prefer a Cobalt destroy anyway, I think. I didn't find Ooba particularly scummy even thought he was townie.

[J-Scope]

I'm on board for a Socio lynch, but want to make sure we get our revive and destroys locked in.

Didn't Drip say to destroy ooba? I mean, I don't want to bring Cobalt back into the game but his lurking was more site-wide. If Drip said to destroy ooba, I think we should do it.

Revive: Nacho
Destroy: ooba

[J-Scope]

How did drip end up in mandos as a man? Weeeirrrddddd.

KMD: Are you being a for reallies?

Seriously now.

BTW, one kill last night - I jailed MPR. Hmmmm

Revive: Nacho
Destroy: Cobalt

Yeah + if you read him in ISO it makes him look like scum anyway.

[J-Scope]

Spyrex. I don't know if ooba is scum. I might as well say this. I received a 1-shot watch ability during night 2. I have no idea why I got it. I used it the next night to watch over kmd and all I saw was Ooba target kmd.

Well we could already be reasonably sure he was what he claimed since he knew FFFF was lying. Personally I prefer a Cobalt detroy anyway as I didn't find Ooba particularly scummy.

Ooba was some sort of weak watcher, rit? who was then upgraded to a full watcher iirc via something KMD did?

[J-Scope]

@Starbuck: SocioPath was a werewolf. No mandos for him.

Revive: KMD
Destroy: Elsca

[J-Scope]

EBWOP:

Destroy: Elscouta

I don't know about Kmd, weren't we planning on lynching him at some point?

Kmd just helped us find and lynch scum. Why on earth would you want to not revive him?

Well there are 2 scum factions, but I think he's probably town at this stage too.


Game balance 3/4 makes sense. I've no clue of the flavour, but I guess an elf being with the werewolves makes no sense? So it could be 3 wolves + an elf? Eh probably not.

That means MPR is the last elf or we've already destroyed them. Since MPR was blocked last night too and there was 1 kill, we can pretty much assume KMD isn't elf scum or there'd have been 2 kills last night.

So one of Els/CKD/Ooba is the last elf scum rit?

N2 is the key piece and why I want a massclaim, honestly.

Well...aren't drippereth and nacho lovers, zito claimed the kill on nacho which resulted in both their death? Then 2 scum factions or a kill was blocked idk. Hmm one second.


I'm good with massclaim if I haven't said so.

[J-Scope]

I think we're probably dealing with 1 wolf scum (and he's probably a power role for balance reasons). At this stage it seems likely one of our dead elves is the elf scum.

So yeah, xvart starting massclaim would be ok.

[J-Scope]

Not sure what to think of MPR's claim. The fact he happens to be a killing role when there's missing kills is sorta convenient. If all those kills belong to him then I wonder where the scum's kills have been?

revive kmd

destroy elscouta

[J-Scope]

hey starbuck claim fully.

[J-Scope]

you've claimed your character, image from role pm and everything else in your role pm?

[J-Scope]

i.e. like xvart.


what's your silmaril abillity?

[J-Scope]

"In Eregion the craftsmen of the Gwaith-i-Mirdain, the People of the Jewel-smiths, surpassed in cunning all that have ever wrought, save Fëanor himself; and indeed greatest in skill among them was Celebrimbor, son of Curufin, who was estranged from his father and remained in Nargothrond when Celegorm and Curufin were driven forth, as is told in the Quenta Silmarillion." (Silmarillion, 286)

We're an Elf inventor.

We've got 4 1-ahot abillites to give out:

Track - to Jack.
Watcher - to Farside on the night she was coming back.

We have 2 more we've not used yet. Should we claim them yes/no? We felt they were potentially more useful later in the game than used earlier.

Our similiaril abillity allows us to give out 2 inventions in the one night, but only once. So if we held it for the whole game we could still only use a double action once in the game.

[J-Scope]

And if it was was not clear in the book quote/picture, we're Celebrimbor.

@Starbuck: Spyrex said he had targeted Anon in this claim post: 1743

---------------

11. xvart
4. Starbuck
9. Papa Zito
17. Jack
25. J-Scope

19. Budja <=== time to claim
5. farside22
10. Cyberbob
7. MehPlusRawr
8. SpyreX
14. Nachomamma8

[J-Scope]

That makes sense I guess. Waiting on the mass claim to continue.

[J-Scope]

I don't believe her claim. I give a cookie to the first person to tell me why that is.

Well she was the 2nd person to claim vanilla townie, and she claimed the same silmaril power as xvart before her. But after that we've seen more vanilla townies and they have had unique silmaril abilities. (jack has motivate, budja is redirector)

Which means Starbuck-scum might have been given a fakeclaim in the form of a character name and picture, but didn't know that all vanilla's aren't created equal. And if she was scum with a silmaril power, it might not be a pro-town one. Is that what you're thinking?

[J-Scope]

@Jack, what does motivate do?

Jack - Way up the scum charts. One simple reason: every named elf has a power. The vanillas were truly vanilla in elfland.

Because we've seen two other vanilla elves (one confirmed/one not) and they were called "Servant of Thingol (xofelf, CKD)? Possibly, but I'm a little less sure on that because I assume scum have fakeclaims here. And if not, scum still might have seen xofelf's rolename as something generic that could be reproduced.

On the other hand if scum have a character name, they might think it gives them more value. And if they were elf-scum, they wouldn't claim man in case they ended up in mandos. So I can see Jack being a good vig kill.

I DO want the other J-scope powers known to see how to dance the dance from here on.

Its probably safe to talk about today, I'll check with Faraday.

[J-Scope]

I think that's L-1. Anything need to be said before night?