Mini 954 ~ Mafia at the 11th Hour (Game Over!)

[Nikanor]

Vote: d3x.

I've played enough games with d3x to know his scum meta. And this is definitely his scum meta. Lynch please.

[Nikanor]

I have done as the dog instructs and the dice have told me that TonyMontana is scum and Pomegranate and d3x are probably his scum partners.

If d3x actually is scum, I am 90% sure that DDD is his buddy, because this really looks a lot like early-game distancing.

[Nikanor]

VP Baltar, why are you posting in other games but not posting in this one?

dramonic, I assure you that I am going to stay male for the remainder of this game, at least. You can put your heterophobia at rest for now.

[Nikanor]

Nikanor, why are you focusing on VP, who posted twice on page one, when 3 people have not yet posted? Percy is posting elsewhere on the site.

I just noticed that VP had posted in another game on my watched topics (Zachtown), and had not posted here. I saw a potential lead, so I went for it. It's not really conclusive evidence, but any evidence is good at this point.
My vote is still on d3x, by the way.

Either way, Nik is Scum, this I know. His endless tunnelling will not go unpunished!

Tunneling is good, though. Admit it, you love being called scum by me in every game we're in together.

[Nikanor]

Unvote. Vote: Percy.

It sure is taking you a long time to read a three-paged thread!

[Nikanor]

@Nik- Is that a serious Vote?

Yes. What Percy did is exactly what I have a tendency toward doing as scum: posting "Oh, I'll catch up!" and then not actually catching up until I get prodded again. If you want, I could give about five or six examples where I do this as scum.

Seraphim is scum, though. See?

If you did, in fact, actually roll dice, why did you not use the dice tags in order to prove that you, in fact, roll dice?

See Seraphim throw dirt on DDD.

Unvote
Vote: TonyMontana

See Seraphim bandwagon without reasoning.

That being said, I don't see scum anywhere except for maybe Porkens who wants to run Tony to L-1 to try and unlock his ability.

I have no idea. Trying to out his power to kill him later or something?

See Seraphim not know why he's voting for someone.

Unvote. Vote: Seraphim.

DDD is pushing the Tony wagon pretty hard, but I don't see any reason for why he's doing it. Possible distancing? (And yes, I do realize that by the end of the game I'm probably going to have DDD down as distancing from every player in the game. I'm okay with that.)

This isn't court, people don't start on a specific end of the spectrum and work their way accross.

Thiiiiis. So much of this. Pom's vote is fail.

[Nikanor]

@Mod: Prod Maemuki, please.

Done. ~Vi

[Nikanor]

I think Nikanor is making too big of an issue over Percy taking ~10 hours to make his second post. Percy didn't have to be prodded again, and he gave a reason that sounded reasonable. Besides, the pace and content-level of this game should not be daunting to scum. Nikanor, do your examples include games under similar circumstances to this?

Ehh, no. At least I don't think so.
Actually, wait. This is a game that roughly matches the circumstances here, I believe. I ended up replacing out of that game, though.

What is your experience with Percy? Have you played with him as town before?

My experience with Percy is nil. What does it matter? Do you think that somehow impacts the validity of a point?

To start with, he's come after VP {p26} and Percy {p60} for activity issues which I find ridiculous. Nik overlooked multiple people {myself included} when he went after VP at the top of page 2 for what I'm assuming would be active lurking. Ironic, eh VP?

Again, I noticed that VP was posting elsewhere but not in this thread, so I pointed it out. I'm not pretending that it was a decisive point of evidence or anything, but certainly worthy of notice in my opinion.

This does not feel like RVS joking to me, it feels legit. Couple that with the fact that he backs up the position in p48 {he calls it both evidence and a lead} and we're heading down to UnHappy town. He also skips past his reasoning for ignoring the other lurkers {not so subtley from you in p29 and again in p41 just in case he missed it the first time around}.

a) I don't see how being serious about something is scummy, and b) I never skipped over any reasoning.

He's not saying that these are things ScumPercy does, he's saying that these are things that ScumNik does. He is using his own meta to come after another player for really shaky reasons. Afterall, I could provide the same amount of examples of TownNik doing this behavior {saying "i'll catch up" and then dissappearing until a prod is sent}.

Yeah, and because I do them as scum I assume that everyone does them as scum. That's how I hunt for scum. I think, "What would I do in his position, as scum and as town?" and then make a decision on his scumminess/towniness accordingly.
And I don't ever recall doing this as town.

With the slightest bit of pressure, he backs down from this lurker hunt just like he did before. He then goes after Seraphim for meh reasons, imo.

Lurker hunting on page five fails, that's why. I had better evidence, so I went for it.

Good points from d3x on Nikanor. I think it boils down to "more concerned about posting rather than posts", and his case on Seraphim is all spin.

My case is not spin. My case is mighty fine, if you ask me. Why do you think it is spin?

Also of note in that 2nd link is the fact that this exact situation played out. There were multiple promises of posts and then days would slip by before we heard from him again. Had the Mod been in attendance, prods would've been sent.

Ehh, that game. I tried to forget about that. Such bad memories. That is by far my worst performance as a town role to this date. I won't deny lurking in that game, but that's because I was too stupid and too busy to scumhunt like a normal person.
Anyway, the point is not that I do that exclusively as scum. The point is that I do that as scum five times more often than I do as town.

[Nikanor]

Catching up after dinner. Expect a post by tonight at the latest.

[Nikanor]

What are you trying to show with that game? Both of those scum were posting on page 1. They didn't lurk through the random vote stage.

Well, not the RVS, but right after the RVS is when I started to flake out, and I was scum. And I think the pace of the two games are roughly comparable.

That's reasonable by itself. But it starts to look like your going on a general lurker hunt when you bring Percy into the discussion. I guess we could argue semantics over what "catching up ASAP" means, which is literally "as soon as possible", which for him seemed to be 10 hours. If Percy had said "catching up now", that would be more black-and-white. Did you see read into his wording like this, or was there something else that made him stand out from someone like Tony who hadn't posted at all by that point?

I usually see ASAP as "right now," and I always have. The point I've been trying to make this whole time is that not following up on promises to post is scummy, rather than that Percy was scummy for lurking, because I wouldn't classify not posting for ten hours as lurking.

Even in the random vote stage?

Well, no, but I don't see how that matters.

It's the whole, "I'm going to attack people over BS" reasoning. His attacks of Percy and myself for lurking when we obv were not stink to high heaven, imo.

Again, I wasn't attacking Percy for lurking, although I won't deny that I attacked you for lurking. Something about posting in other games but not this one set off bells for me.

Yes, I think it very much impacts it. As I said above, saying "I'm busy, but you can expect a post soon." is pretty much par for the course with Percy. I guess you not knowing him gives you a bit of an excuse, but it's still a pretty poorly fashioned attack.

Okay, and the fact that I called Percy out for that is scummy how? I don't know Percy; I didn't know that he does that all the time. Do you expect me to do meta research on every person in this game? Because if I see something as scummy, I'm bringing it up. I don't see why you're attacking me here, though. Me not knowing him gives me an excuse, yet I'm still scummy for it? How does that work out, exactly?

The biggest issue was that you clearly weren't looking at context at all. I had just posted in this thread not that long ago and essentially nothing worth mentioning had happened here. Meanwhile, I do have other games that are much more advanced and actually require my attention. I'm not sure if you were just stirring shit to have a discussion going or actually believed the garbage you were saying.

Well, while I did believe in what I said, how you have responded has made me reconsider. Your explanation makes sense. I just really didn't have anything better to go on for the moment, and I prefer overzealous pushing of weak scumtells to standing back and waiting in the RVS.

Have you checked any of my games to confirm your suspicions as to whether this is how I play?

Um, no. I wasn't aware that meta research was a requirement for membership in this town. Sorry about that.

(The point is that your vote was lazy, and you continue to be lazy when it comes to this point)

I'm always lazy. I play in six games at a time and don't do research.

(Also, you are clearly aware of your meta, and may be trying to say "I'm posting, so I'm not scum!", or at least suggesting it)

LIES AND SLANDER! On this note, though, have you done any research into my meta?

It is spin, but I'm not going to go into a detailed critique of your case against him; I'll wait for Seraphim to post his thoughts, and then I'll post mine.

Sounds good.

Pom, explain to me why the dramonic wagon is better than Awesome wagon?

It isn't.

Vote: Nikanor.

I just reread the case. I agree with it, but don't have time for explanation now. Coming tomorrow.

Har har har. Opportunistic much?

And I see that at this point Seraphim is still not posting. Promises a catch-up post, and doesn't deliver.

Because the way d3x mentioned something, then Nikanor says that he does it as scum. Well... also, as mentioned previously, I don't like how he decided that his own meta fit Percy.

As I think I've explained before (unless I'm getting my games mixed up), I scumhunt by taking what I do as scum and comparing it against the play of others. Although that method probably needs to be ditched, seeing as how I've lost pretty much every game I've been town in.

So he's generalizing from his personal behavior? So what? I absolutely do that at times; "here's what I would do as scum in this situation does this person's behavior match my expectations"? You can argue his conclusions are wrong, but I absolutely see nothing in that logical process that indicates scum.

This. DDD explains it so much more eloquently than I, but this is exactly what I'm trying to say.

a) Calling someone out for posting in another game is valid if that person is lurking in the one you're playing. We were on p26. That's ridiculous. The fact that you Voted him is one thing, the fact that you backed it up and held to your nonRandom Vote is another. What exactly would you expect him to post? RVS nonsense? What is the Scum motivation behind VP's actions here? b)Did you check on the other players to see if they were posting anywhere else? If it's a valid ScumHunting option for page 2 and you didn't, why not?

I believe I've explained this already.
And seriously, not everyone is as hard a worker as you, d3x. It's a weak scumtell. I'm not going to go out and do research on something unless I think I'm really onto something.

The problem is, you do this as Town, as I pointed out. I don't know what your angle was in saying you 'don't remember doing this' and then saying you try to forget the examples I posted {in the same post}, but it's not working on me.

I don't understand. I didn't ignore anything, nor do I think I missed anything.

Hey Nikanor: Did you get an ability by going to L-1?

Nope.

And what would you guys say if I told you that Nik was posting extensively {and as recently as yesterday} in his other ongoing game?

I'd call you a dirty fucking liar.
The only day I posted "extensively" on was Friday, and that was because three of my games had Friday as a deadline. From Friday to today, I've been posting once or twice per day. I had a rather busy (but fun) weekend, and was limited to mostly modding and not posting walls of text. I can tell you all about my awesome weekend if you'd like.

Tag fixed. ~Vi

[Nikanor]

Anyway, I decided to put my opinions in a separate post:

Seraphim is a chronic lurker, and still probably scum.

Yes, I think it very much impacts it. As I said above, saying "I'm busy, but you can expect a post soon." is pretty much par for the course with Percy. I guess you not knowing him gives you a bit of an excuse, but it's still a pretty poorly fashioned attack.

This is a crappy reason to attack someone, especially since this seems to be the cornerstone of VP's attacks against me. I'll give a silver dollar to anyone who can find exactly where VP starts thinking I'm scummy. Because I looked in his iso, and I couldn't find it.
VP is coasting scum pushing the easy Nikwagon. He doesn't add anything new to what others say against me. I invite everyone to iso VP and find one good reason for why he's voting me. Hint: you won't find it.

Unvote. Vote: VP Baltar.

Withholding judgement on Percy for now.

Pomegranate's vote on me was opportunistic at best. The timing and the way she quoted VP's post like that give me the shivers, especially given what I think of VP.

Porkens just seems to be pushing whatever wagon is biggest. His play strikes me as something I'd see from a hidden Tarhalindur Survivor in this setup. I have no real read on Porkens.

I don't get why Tony thinks that DDD is scum and vice-versa. DDD, could you summarize the reasons for why Tony is scum?

dramonic is actively lurking, as always. Not really an alignment tell.

[Nikanor]

One thing I forgot to ask:

And what would you guys say if I told you that Nik was posting extensively {and as recently as yesterday} in his other ongoing game?

Why did you think this, anyway?

[Nikanor]

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[Nikanor]

I should've stuck with my initial plan of treating Porkens like a neutral until endgame. He's too hard to read.

@Nikanor: why did you call Porkens a neutral survivor? I never understood that, since we knew there was only a 3-person scum team.

Porkens didn't seem like he cared about the game to me. I was just messing around and sending mixed signals.

...speaking of which, what was the deal Nik? It was really only your absence that was in question for the most part. Had you been more active I don't think you would have been the lynch day 1. Though I do have to commend you for your distancing on the way down.

Yeah, I need to work on that terrible habit I have of lurking as scum.

*Did anyone actually care about the roles'/vote counts' flavor? I can very easily do less in the future.

I liked the flavour, but it's just that everyone being from a different game doesn't really lend itself to flavour being important.

And I'm sorry for making trouble, Vi. Once Porkens had said that he was actually town, I figured I'd make a 'bah' post since I hadn't made one earlier.

[Nikanor]

The flavor wasn't important, but did it have to be?

No, I meant that it wasn't important to the game, so it wasn't going to be analysed or brought up during the game. That might be why you thought nobody cared about it.