Newbie 939 - Game Over

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/confirm

Hi everyone, hope to see a good game coming.

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A minor

FoS

kingdavid for saying this.

Remember that whether I am scum or town, I will be playing toward my win condition, and if I am scum, some things I say may not be in the best interest of the town as a whole, so they should be taken with a grain of salt..[/b]

Your motive for saying that might be that you are a scum who is trying to fulfill the responsibility of an IC by clarifying the situation.

So, what's the extent of everyone here's experience in Mafia?

I've only played a game here, and was NK1 T_T.

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You are correct, that might be my motive. Although my motive might just as easily be a townie who is trying to fulfill the responsibility of an IC by clarifying the situation.

But the haste with which you were saying that made me more inclined towards a scumtell. Then again, it's too little evidence to say so I only put a minor FoS on you.

Usually that means that you were playing well enough to scare the scum. Scum often kill the most protown players off first so that they don't have to deal with them in the end game.

Not necessarily. If I was playing well enough to point out a scum, he/she wouldn't NK me for fear of being expose. I believe I was NK-ed randomly.

I'm with kingdavid.

Vote = nopointinactingup

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Ahh I was asking gandalf to explain his vote, but I see it now.

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Pmac, I'm not worried about it, In fact I don't mind getting him closer, but it's something to keep track of. In another game I knocked someone into L-2 on page 2 as well, and then they were knocked into L-1 immediately. That's a bit scary especially when the person who voted last claims they didn't know. We gotta keep up on these things. The main reason it's important is so that
A: Scum can't quick lynch and get away with it
B: Town doesn't accidentally quicklynch someone and get lynched the next day because of it.

So, Gandalf is at L-2, and everyone knows.

A bit confusing to me. Can you explain it more clearly?

You know, since they are finding my random voting so suspicious, I think they're mafia. This is not a OMGUS vote. This is a they're drawing connections that don't exist, meaning they're trying to get me lynched because they're mafia. As such, I

unvote: nopoint

and

vote: FC

Partly true, but you sound like you're drawing connection that doesn't exist as well by voting for someone only because they are suspecting you. In cases like this, you should be more careful and tilt on reason if you really are a town. I've seen way too many rash townies getting themselves lynched.

By the way, a reminder of a side question for everyone: What is your experience in playing mafia game? I insist that everyone answered it.

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I think the whole point of Gandalf being pushed to Day1 Lynch

It sort off looks like Gandalf is hiding behind the IC huh?

This looks a bit finger-pointing ( where a scum tries to direct lynching attention towards a townie without assuming responsibility of an accusor )
--> a small scumtell.

Bit strong there, eh? I don't like this, you seem to be bouncing about a bit too hard.

Vote Gandalf

L-2

Pmac, I'm not worried about it, In fact I don't mind getting him closer, but it's something to keep track of. In another game I knocked someone into L-2 on page 2 as well, and then they were knocked into L-1 immediately. That's a bit scary especially when the person who voted last claims they didn't know. We gotta keep up on these things. The main reason it's important is so that
A: Scum can't quick lynch and get away with it
B: Town doesn't accidentally quicklynch someone and get lynched the next day because of it.

So, Gandalf is at L-2, and everyone knows.

If you think putting him closer to lynch so fast is potentially dangerous then why do you not mind pushing him to L-2? And I'm curious. The person who voted last and claimed

I personally have little suspicion of Gandalf actually. His style is constant and resonated well with his game experience and he seems like a typical townie newbie to me. I've encounter some townie like that and they all became scapegoats for smart scums, who could easily build a wagon on them with very little reasoning.

Thus, I think we should be more careful in making our decision

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If you think putting him closer to lynch so fast is potentially dangerous then why do you not mind pushing him to L-2? And I'm curious. The person who voted last and claimed

Sorry, the text disappeared somewhere

If you think putting him closer to lynch so fast is potentially dangerous then why do you not mind pushing him to L-2? And I'm curious. The person who voted last and claimed not to have noticed that he put someone at L-1, was he a scum or a town?

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hmm, maybe if I was the only one to point it out and others didn't share my opinion on this matter. I also think its justified if he phrases it in such a way.

Apart from that, don't worry, I don't think anyone wants to push for a lynch yet. Also want Slaine respond to the FOS for example.

Hmm, but what I'm implying is scums usually start suspicions around each townies without voting to lynch them to see whether the target can possibly be a scapegoat for his/her escape from LynchDay1. If the others didn't share his view, they would stop and the scum would assume no responsibility in accusing the townie. If the others were taken into the wagon, however, the scum would have gained a lynch-free day and another night to kill off the innocent. And it so happens to be in this game that, the suspicions started really quickly around Gandalf, which lead me to believe that it's more of a scum conspiracy than a mistake of a noob scum.

I'm just saying, you're less likely to attract attention if you stay quiet, so good mafia stay quiet.

This is quite untrue. The more the scum lurks actually, the more suspicion will be on him.

And can everyone help me on this?
danny135 (1) - dandman999
dandman999 (1) - danny135

Danny135 and Dandman999 seems to be playing a game of their own with complete disregard to what's been happening in the thread?

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Possible, but also note that I'm not the first one to point that particular thing out. Also, where is your vote? There is enough to go on for now, so I'd like to see you vote at the very least.

Actually I don't see anyone very suspicious yet and I don't like to throw my votes around in the beginning of the game. That's just my style and I do the same for every game.

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I think that's a very nice all-player-analysis put up by Pulindar. I was thinking this game is loosing direction and enthusiasm until this post.

Questions

1.) Why do you not like voting?
2.) Did you notice that I skipped your questions?
3.) Why did you not bring them back up?
4.) Why did you not point out that I skipped them?
5.) Have you noticed that voting puts pressure and requires people to answer your questions?
6.) Do you think asking and having questions answered is pro-town?
7.) You mentioned that Scum often incite some suspicions yet do not vote in case town does not support it, have you done this?
8.) Do you think it can be construed that you did this with King David at the beginning?
9.) That you did it with me a bit later?
10.) If you could go back and vote, would you, if yes, Who and when?
11.) Do you now (after this post) find anyone suspicious?[/area]

1> Ofcourse I don't dislike voting. That's one of the few weapons that townies do have against the scum. I just don't like voting for someone without a sturdy reasonable basis that he's a scum. ( A reasonable basis, to my opinion, builds over many suspicions and analysis instead of 1 or 2 ). Sure, you can really vote to see reaction but I think that just won't work against most scums.
2> I did
3> Assuming that you are a scum and avoiding questions is a scummy act. If I had brought them up again, you would have more proclivity to answer questions instead of avoiding more questions. Thus, the scumtell would be undermine. If I leave it and observe for more avoidance of questions from you, it would be a stronger scumtell.
4> Same as 3
5> Ah yes, that thought just now occurs to me. But again, I don't think telling the scum that you're on to him will make him less cautious. And it's only in situations when scums are less cautious do scumtells are more probable to point out the scum.
6> Well yes of course, what else are we going to base our suspicion on? Nonetheless, a person who asks and answers a lot of questions can only get a minor towntell from me because it's easy for scums to be like that as well.
7> Well not really though they look identical, there are actually nuances. In the FC's post I believe is finger-pointing, he didn't actually say he's suspicious of Gandalf, but points out to infer it to other people. In my posts I said directly that I'd put a FoS on someone. Assuming responsibility of an accusor doesn't have to mean a whole vote?
8> Same as 7
9> Same as 7
10> Actually no, because I haven't got a solid read on just about anyone yet.
11> I don't think YOU have found anyone totally suspicious yet. It's such early part of the game. There is much to discover.

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Acting Up
No, I'm not one ofthose one post and this person is scum people. I do know those people though... Different styles. I often am never completely confident in who I'm chasing. I tend to defend more because of that, or make posts that show where I thought there were breaks in other's defense...

Huh???

But I agree with your opinion about voting. Perhaps I should change my play utilizing votes in more ways.

vote: FC

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@Pulindar: Thx for the wiki
@FC: My vote is because I feel that you are the most suspicious so far with your finger pointing act.

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I've no comment about Razorback I just think he should add at least reasoning to his posts.

And I'd have to agree with Jelly, KD ( King David )'s defense of FC to me seems a bit too extreme as if KD is employing the chainsaw defense, that is aggressively attacking a scum buddy's attacker.

@KD: Why do you make such conclusion about Jelly although you've only seen 1 of his posts and there was never any real exchange between you guys?

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0: confirmation
1: possible point on David. However, you choose to use the FoS instead of a vote. Even though the reason might be lacking, it does not count as a "Random vote". Your general reluctance to vote is rather scummy to me.
2:
- You come off as very careful, but that could also be explained as not wanting to piss anyone off/avoiding controversion.
- fair enough
3: clarification. Note that you also ask others to explain their votes.
4:
- Scum can't quick hammer that easily if people are not put on L-1
- notes the OMGUS vote. Fair point
5:
- I don't really get the case here. Also, since I already had a vote on him, I don't see how I didn't take responsibility here. Question to you here is, what do you see as "scumhunting" and what do you see as "fingerpointing"? Is it a lot different and what makes it scummy?
- fair point back then on Pulindar.
- Good that you're careful, but thats no excuse not to vote.
6: sort of repeatance of what he posted earlier.
7:
- Meta argument on scum in general? Also, I did provide a vote on someone I thought to be suspicious, so I don't see your point. I also don't agree with the statement that its automatically suspicious to suspect several people at the same time. Do you still think so?
- agreed on the last part.
8: refuses to post his suspicions/vote yet.
9:
- Ehh not really sure what to think of this, especially if you acknowledge that voting is one of the only weapons we have. Also, this must mean you have a very strong read on me. Am I right?
- then why didn't you act on it?
- Not quite sure whether this is the best way. Odds are high you allow scum to get back under the radar again, without you informing the rest of town.
- see above
- ? Then why not use the vote more often?
- ehh ok
- Didn't you notice I already had a vote on him? Or do you expect me to change vote each time I point out something I find suspicious?
- ehh that was not the question.
- ok
- again, means you have a solid read on me now?
- That was not the question. Avoidance noted.
10: What a sudden change of heart. vote is not explained in this post.
11: Guess I'll have to ask you again, what is the difference between fingerpointing and scumhunting according you and after reading all of this, do you still consider it "fingerpointing"?
12:
- agreed
- strong defence? he more or less said the same thing as I already did before. You could respond to that if you want.
- He really did post more than that. Put him in ISO. [/area]

Conclusion is that you made a quite sudden jump to getting your vote out. Also I obviously don't agree with the vote, but saying so, will that make me defensive? Would it be OMGUS to you if I would vote for you right now?

Also, you come off to me as rather tunneled. It strokes with some of your other posts, but it really isn't bad to focus on more, or even all people that are still in the game. Also, your general choice to avoid controversion seems scummy to me.

arg, your ISO is so hard to follow.
1> In my first game, I didn't vote until the end of 1st day ( this is my 2nd game ).
4> But scum can also put people in L-1 to bait for a mislynch, so I think it's a WIFOM.
5> Yup. Your post just sounds more finger pointing to me than posts that directly address the person being voted.
7> Of course I don't mean suspecting many people is suspicious. I mean "invoking suspicion" around many people is suspicious.
9> This hyphen infested question of yours confuses me. Can you at least quote my answer that you're replying to? I didn't avoid any question. I implied that I hadn't found anyone obv suspicious yet. And most of your questions have been answered already!?
10> Because it is a pressure vote. Your posts after that was neither defensive nor scummy much so I'm letting go of my vote. But after that, I did note that Jellyjigger jumped your wagon with the exact same reason as I did and little more.
11> I've explained it in 3 posts and Yes.
12> sorry. For some reason I didn't notice his posts answering to Pulindar's questions xD.

Overall, I don't have a solid case on FC yet. But my impression is that he made some small scummy posts in the beginning of the game. However, after that he seems townie responded well to pressure. Thus,

unvote

Are mafia allowed to talk outside of the game?

Why are you asking such question? Is this part of your business?

alright gandalf you want to lynch me go for but i'm going to tell you all this once. as i did in previous game lynch me and you lynch a vanilla townie. you don't have to think i'm telling the truth but you'll find out in the end.

Include some reasoning please![/b]

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@Pmac: Like you said yourself, the possibility of your theory is too small to even consider at this point of the game.
@Largerdog: Now that you've posted and thus "read up on the whole game". Do you have any say about other players apart from Razorback ?

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@Lager: Oh sorry xD. Guess I'll call you Lager from now on.

OMG.... no wonder ive been replaced... i HAD posted 3 times and it wouldnt work... I thought it had worked though...

What is this? What could it mean?

Wouldn't you want to know all the rules whether your mafia or town?

Of course. But actually mafia would more likely to want to know that rule ..

Hmm contradicting yourself there. That's usually not a good sign.

I don't believe so Jelly, you only have 1 vote on you so another one wouldn't make it a wagon

"Gandalf is the least suspicious to me because even though hes random hes pretty consistent and his story holds up" - commented on already, but not sure what he means by "his story holds up".

I think it simply means Gandalf is consistent to his playstyle.

How is asking for clarification a scumtell? Read rule 19 on the first page. If you think something is weird you should be all the more cautious. This is why I haven't voted for razor.

So what is weird?

Please read my previous post again. I feel like you are bringing up things I have already answered for no reason but to make me look bad.

I've only had minor suspicions of FC and even though I defended myself I only did that because there was really nothing else I could see. But I feel like these new guys are throwing off some bad vibes so I am going to take back my previous vote.

Unvote

FoS LagerDog

Everyone has his own suspicion, why are you so defensive to his post. I personally don't see much irrationality in Lager's post.

@Razorback: Do you mean that you made a false accusation only to bait reaction out of Gandalf. If so, how did you come to the conclusion that he was town? What are your evidence?

Everyone who has played some games with Razorback before ( I see at least 3) can you please give us some clues to how razor plays. Does he tell lies like that a lot or lurks, or just talks non-sense ...etc?

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Bah == NK1 again Goodluck towns.

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It was tough for town, the scums did well
@Gandalf: What do you mean failing to be suspicious? @@