Mini 967 - Mafia War (Over)

[Unsight]

/confirm hihi

[Unsight]

Next person to post is scum.

[Unsight]

Unvote
Vote: Exemption

Defending someone in page two. There is no reason for a town player to do that this early. Ever.

Attacking my post and then defending it makes no sense.

vote: Exemption

[Unsight]

Unsight, how was he defending your post?

I don't follow. He admits in the same post to defending it. Are you ignoring that for a reason?

[Unsight]

No prod necessary horrordude0215.

unvote. vote: deadjoker

Post subject 83 is lynch-worthy. The last thing any pro-town player should be doing is telling other players how to not be scummy.

Also, attacking poor arguments is pro-town and the chainsaw tell is post-scum flip.


@Amish_Charney: Who is scum?

[Unsight]

No prod necessary horrordude0215.

unvote. vote: deadjoker

Post subject 83 is lynch-worthy. The last thing any pro-town player should be doing is telling other players how to not be scummy.

Also, attacking poor arguments is pro-town and the chainsaw tell is post-scum flip.


@Amish_Charney: Who is scum?

If you think the scum in this game don't already know how to blend in with town then they might want to find a new game to play. Additionally, are you seriously suggesting I am blatently trying to coach pman? I've got my reasons why I put the comment in question into my post, and I am waiting for pman's response.

@horror - This answers the second part of Unsight as well - Even if you think the subject of a bandwagon could be town, it is worth the conversation to get tells on other players. Especially on the first bandwagon of the game. Unless, of course, the bandwagon is starting to look like a possible lynch. Why would you want to stop the first serious conversation? The only possible reason I could imagine to halt a mini bandwagon is if I see a blatent scum tell, not to defend the subject of the bandwagon.

"are you seriously suggesting I am blatantly trying to coach pman" implies you know or strongly believe that pman5595 is scum. Is that the case?

How do you feel about Me=Weird's play so far and his wagon?

[Unsight]

@Amish_Charney: Who is scum?

...Right now I'm thinking Me=Weird... that's why I voted for him...

So Me=Weird is the only person you're suspicious of? If not, who else?

[Unsight]

vote- Unsight

How about you do your own scumhunting?

Serious vote or did you just not want to answer my question that badly?

[Unsight]

"are you seriously suggesting I am blatantly trying to coach pman" implies you know or strongly believe that pman5595 is scum. Is that the case?

How do you feel about Me=Weird's play so far and his wagon?

Why are you throwing me a softball question? That is like asking me if I am scum or town. I'm

scum

WAIT I MEAN TOWN!

What are you trying to get at Unsight? Stop using gimmicks.

As far as Me=Weird, he seemed to go MIA at an awfully convenient time. It seems once anyone gets heat around here they go MIA ... Exemption, pman, Me=Weird. Katsuki was dragging his feet but eventually stepped up to the plate. So while I do think Me=Weird has to answer his bandwagon, it isn't an obvscum tell.

If I was throwing softballs, you wouldn't be dodging them in all caps. And it is

very

scummy to dodge a question concerning pman's alignment considering you're voting him and all.

One more thing. You were willing enough to comment on the Katsuki wagon a couple times but didn't volunteer any comments on Me=Weird or his similar-sized wagon. Why?

[Unsight]

You seem determined to artificially generate a case on me by building a house of cards. No one else had such a strong reaction to my post addressing pman (Stef commented on it but left it at that), and yet you call it a "lynch-able" post. And you have yet to back that up.

I wasn't dogding at all, I was calling it a stupid question. Ask me a good question, I'll give you a good answer. Until then I'm going to wait for pman to post, who yes I do strongly suspect of being scum, and I am content to leave it at that.

By the way, are you even reading the thread? If you have been reading my posts at all you should already know I suspect pman. Any reason why you are harping on this point?

And I don't have a read on Me=Weird, and again, am waiting for him to post anything of substence. Katsuki was a bit more active, and I had more material to analyze. Again, are you reading the thread?

And this post of mine alone is almost longer than all of your posts combined this game (not counting quoting). Seems like you are willing to ping people with questions and throwing out accusations while minimizing your content. Are you doing this on purpose?

If you "strongly suspect [pman] of being scum" then why are you "content to leave it at that?"

"waiting for him [Me=Weird] to post anything of substence" while half-heartedly pursuing someone else looks like a precursor to an opportunistic vote.

If by "minimizing your content" you mean avoiding walls of text then yes. I started out posting that way in games and only after running into other people who do that did I suddenly realize how annoying it is to respond, quote, or even just read those posts. If I can make my points without giant blocks of text then so much the better as it's easier for me to write and easier for everyone else to read.

[Unsight]

That answers my questions well enough.

unvote. vote: Amish_Charney

@Number 3: Not everything needs a large explanation or analysis. Sometimes it does (see my response to your "minimizing your content" question) and sometimes it doesn't. Either way, if I'm not being clear about something, just let me know.

[Unsight]

mod: request vote count

[Unsight]

That answers my questions well enough.

unvote. vote: Amish_Charney

Wow, way not to give me a chance to respond. Yes, that was a serious vote, your little questions were silly, and served only pass the buck. Not only are you passing the buck, you're making strawmen out of relatively benign comments, strawmen seemingly threatening only to you. It's narcissistic, annoying, and supremely anti-Town. Believe me, you're number two on my list right after the PolicyLynchmaster General here.

Interesting. So when I asked you who your other suspects were, you balked because you didn't have any. Your biggest suspects are the largest current wagon and an OMGUS against someone who asked you who your other suspects were.

For fun, let's compare your play in this game to your other game (Newbie 950). It's really convenient that both games started on May 4th and do you know why? Because you have 3 times as many posts in that game than this one (10vs30).

You're definitely lurking in this game and, prior to my scrutiny, your only real suspect was conveniently the largest wagon. In summary, you're scum.

[Unsight]

If you had bothered to do something other than count posts, you'd have realized I was on the chopping block for much of that first day, and had to mount a rather active defense of myself. I'm lurking? They almost had to prompt you for a prod before you started on with your asinine pinging.

Never did I "balk" at having to name other suspects- I was on the fence about Katsuki, and I oppose people who policy lynch on the third page. And if anyone here is guilty of OMGUS, its you, as I voted for you before you brought anything up on me.

So what you're saying is that you need a few votes on you to make you stop lurking? I have only a few more posts than you but the difference is that I was prodded meaning there was a window of time where I was absent from the thread. You, on the other hand, are posting very little but just often enough to actually avoid getting prodded.

And yes, you did balk. You completely avoided the question. And then you came back later to say that I was your suspect other than Me=Weird which I'm sure wasn't the case until I started questioning you. You've done essentially no scumhunting so far. Heck, it was page 4 and 96 posts into the game before you even asked someone a question. All you've done is comment and vote-flip every other post. You're doing more lurking/watching than actively looking for scum.

That's why I asked you who your suspects were in the first place because I don't think you have any. I think you were content to drop a post every so often and fade into the background.

[Unsight]

It wasn't evident that you were my other suspect when I voted for you?

Evident from what? All 0 posts you had mentioned me in or the fact that you've flipped your vote more times than anyone else in the game so far AFAIK? I even had to ask if it was a serious vote because it made so little sense.

[Unsight]

...When have I flipped my vote? And I was voting for you because your pinging was all those fine little adjectives I've listed earlier. If you couldn't tell, I should really refer you to an eyedoc, get that tunnel vision checked out.

You were putting a vote statement in every other post for a while:

4 votes, 1 revote in your first 10 posts

Vote- Deadjoker

Vote- Stef

For the sake of clarity-

unvote
vote-stef

unvote

vote- Me=Weird

vote- Unsight

Also, it's kind of cool that you avoided addressing pretty much everything I said in Post subject: 136. Seems like you're making a habit out of avoiding things you don't like.

[Unsight]

Your point about stef is fair. As a result of your vote, he did make a very townish post in 92. What was your reasoning behind switching to the Me=Weird wagon? Your vote post doesn't explain it well and you glossed over it in that last post too.

[Unsight]

@stef

* Pretty much. Wasn't much to go on so I put my vote where it looked most useful.

* deadjoker's post felt very disingenuous. Going to such great lengths to explain what was essentially a null tell was useless. Lots of words with little content. And the second to last paragraph was basically telling pman to go bark up another tree.

* No one has asked me about Me=Weird and I was pursuing my suspects, not dropping random commentary. Mentioning policy lynching isn't a scumtell and the only post that has really caught my attention was this one where he talks about multiple mafia factions. I skimmed the OP and the thread title never clicked for me so I had to go reread the OP to see what he meant. That one sentence almost comes off like a "get me, not them" moment but that's a really weak vibe.

* 100 wasn't OMGUS. My questioning him in the beginning was a direct result of suspicion (brought about by his low post count, lack of questioning, and overall weak presence in the game). After deadjoker came back with reasonable answers to my questions, I moved my vote to my next suspect. Him having voted me while pursuing deadjoker doesn't make it OMGUS. It's difficult to see how you could read both our conversations and come to that conclusion.

* I put a 2nd vote on someone as we exited RVS. AC put a 4th vote on someone well out of RVS and with hardly any explanation. Exemption was a good place to leave a vote while I looked for suspects since his behavior was erratic. Me=Weird is possible lynch and AC was pushing him one step closer with a one sentence justification. These are very, very different situations which is why one is potentially wagoning while the other isn't.

* I don't even know how to address this point. You're choosing to ignore all my points in saying I'm not scumhunting. At the same time, you didn't review AC and completely ignored deadjoker in your post. It all seems oddly selective.

[Unsight]

Stef, Katsuki, DJ, Unsight:

1. How willing are you to lynch me=weird?
2. How willing to lynch Katsuki?
3. Do you think me=weird should claim?

(Deadline is pretty soon BTW)

1. Not feeling the Me=Weird wagon. As I said above, only the part where he mentions two scum factions really stands out to me. However, that's probably partially because I missed that by not reading the OP's flavor.

2. I've got a town read on Katsuki from this post. Feels very genuine to me so I'm very much against lynching him atm.

3. I think asking someone to claim before L-1 is rolefishing and putting someone at L-2/L-1 only to ask for a claim is scummy IMO.

[Unsight]

More time = time for rereading ISOs.

@Empking - You haven't mentioned anyone other than Katsuki and Me=Weird so far. Anyone else stand out so far?

@pman - What are the "extreme circumstances" that warrant a policy lynch?

@stef - No comment on my response to your wall'o'text after two days?

[Unsight]

I also suspect you, Stef. In your entire post, you mentioned AC once, and that was to tell him that he had to unvote before he voted. You didn't mention if you thought he was scummy or not. Why were you avoiding discussing this? Hell, why were you avoiding discussing the other 4 people in the game other than you?

FoS: Stef

I would also support a deadline extention

I only mentioned people who tripped my scumdar. Why would I write analysis's for people who don't? It's like saying "look, this idiot discussed half the players in the game and left out another half" while most players only discussed a couple. According to your logic you should FOS everyone, including yourself.

@Unsight: wasn't aware I had to comment your post.

Well, I shot down all your reasons for voting me and you're still voting me while taking a decidedly neutral stance on Me=Weird. It looks a lot like you're sitting on your vote until the deadline draws near planning to switch to Me=Weird at the last moment.

[Unsight]

It looks a lot like you're sitting on your vote until the deadline draws near planning to switch to Me=Weird at the last moment.

This is the second time you have mentioned this. What is the point of this comment? If I had the read you had, I would wait until if/when he switched his vote and then expose him for it. Just want to see what your intent is / benefits of making a comment like this.

Second time? I don't believe I've called stef out on waffling prior to that post.

Anyway, you're right. I could wait until stef swaps to Me=Weird to call him on it. However, I'd rather he justify his position now. I don't want a "oh noes teh deadline... vote vote vote" coming. By the time I could call him on it, we might already be in twilight.

@Me=Weird: Considering you haven't posted much all game, any activity from you is welcome at this point.

Just an observation to note, Me=Weird has more posts than over half the players in this game (yourself included). I counted...

[Unsight]

Grrr... Here I was, getting ready to post a case on amish, and hrezs does it for me. Do you still want me to post it, even though with hrezs post it will seem like parroting?

Funny, I don't see you showing any hint of suspicion toward AC in your ISO until this post.

Go ahead and post your case.

It better be more than "That other guy with two votes and isn't me is suddenly looking pretty scummy."

[Unsight]

EBWOP: Forgot to add that I'll wait to vote until after he responds.

Why?

How do you feel about your current vote--Katsuki?

[Unsight]

Well, I was actually asking Me=Weird about his vote on you but I suppose that works too...

[Unsight]

You're all freaking ninjas.

[Unsight]

@stef

Point 2 - For ease of explanation, I'll color code:

"Going to such great lengths to explain what was essentially a null tell was useless"

=/=

"Post subject 83 is lynch-worthy"

- contradicting yourself since you still don't explain why it was

lynch-worthy

and instead you call his post useless.

Quite right. There are three possibilities as to why you would defend some one in a mini bandwagon (he was and remains far from being quick-lynched by scum) in an attempt to bring it to a halt.

1. You are both scum, and you are attempting to take some heat off of him. This is a potential chainsaw defense, but I could be wrong with what I've read on it thus far, nevertheless it is highly likel to be a scum-tell. As Empking stated, scum are more concerned with votes, I think this holds true with scum's partner(s) in crime.

2. You are scum and he is town. Simple buddying.

3. You are both town (or he is scum and you are town, same analysis). Anti-town, because as been mentioned several time before discussion is good for town, and even small bandwagons on town can help flush out the mafia.

You want to defend a fellow town? Scum hunt some one else, build a case, and if you get enough evidence other players will follow.

I don't like the fact that you deliberately left that out of your quote of my post:

* deadjoker's post felt very disingenuous. Going to such great lengths to explain what was essentially a null tell was useless. Lots of words with little content.

And the second to last paragraph was basically telling pman to go bark up another tree.

Point 3 - IIRC he was at 4 votes for quite a while and that isn't "90% chances of being lynched." I took a stand on the Me=Weird wagon in this post while you're still waffling. You're currently guilty of the exact act you're accusing me of here.

Point 4 - You're trying to tell me why I made my own post, lying about it, and then saying it's OMGUS. I've already explained where my suspicion of AC originates.

Point 6 - I mentioned the two people I've called out as suspects that stood out to me as being excluded. I didn't run through your post comparing it to the game list.

"I'm the one who asked for the freaking extension to the deadline" - Depends on Me=Weird's alignment. Obviously if you were were scumbuddies then it would definitely be in your best interest to get an extension. Though it would explain your waffling, I wouldn't buy that theory without a Me=Weird scumflip.

"Also, this is how you scum-hunt? Supposedly someone was scum and was planning to do that, that is how you hunt the scum? You TELL them what you think they are going to do? That's just horrible and it could also be considered coaching, the same thing you accused joker of doing. " - If I see what looks like a mislynch on the horizon then yes, I'm going to make it hard as hell for scum to justify their vote. Keep in mind, everything I've said to you applies to AC too.

[Unsight]

This is what I mean by mentioning this twice. Why are you so determined to keep votes off of Me=Weird? Do you really have that strong of a town read on him?

Well I guess you do. You definitely don't want to see Me=Weird get lynched. So a very serious question I have to ask you is why are you so sure Me=Weird is town? What has he said which gives you such a strong read that he is town that you want to prevent his lynch?

My stance on Me=Weird is as I said in this post. It's not a "he is town" read, it's a "the things people are voting him for aren't scummy" read. When I see someone scummy on a wagon, I think less of that wagon. The more scummy people I see on the wagon or votelessly pushing it, the less I think of it. Seeing AC on the wagon with zero other suspects and not actually questioning anyone gives me a very bad feeling. Seeing stef constantly avoiding taking a position on Me=Weird gives me a very bad feeling. Seeing several of the votes more or less based off the whole policy lynch thing when there are people I feel are doing actual scummy things adds up to me not being a part of that wagon. I would 100% rather lynch someone I feel is scum than someone on a wagon like that so I'm working toward it.

This set off my scum radar, in a huge way. Me=Weird may have a lot of posts, but most of them are him making excuses as to why he isn't here. I look for quality, not quantity. Me=Weird has posted very little, despite his high post count. Everyone here (except for maybe you) knows Me=Weird is attempting to skip through this game by posting very little and hoping some one else replaces him as the biggest bandwagon.

You

just tried to artificially claim Me=Weird is active and posting a lot of quality material.

It also is no coincidence that in the beginning of the game you were very content to actively lurk during the Katsuki bandwagon, but once you saw Me=Weird had four votes on him you became active and started to artificially generate suspicion on me, and now you are doing it to Amish. I see very little basis to your accusations against Amish, including the fact you OMGUS voted him after you realized I wasn't falling for your gimmicks.

Nothing is adding up about you Unsight. You twist people's words and contradict yourself - a lot.

I haven't contradicted myself at all and I haven't twisted anyone's words. In one post, stef leaves out relevant half of one of my posts and attacks me with it. That's twisting words. In the same post, stef makes up his own reason for one of my posts and attacks me with that. That's twisting words. I don't do that, at all. I don't need to make up things or leave parts out because I'm out to find scum, not create scum.

I have not lurked at all during this game. I'm generally able to post at least once/day in all my games during weekdays. I was away from the game for part of a weekend and the following Monday. I was back on Tuesday and have been active the whole time. I don't lurk.

My suspicion on you was and is real. The whole reason I let off you was that pman was gone so you couldn't question him. Since pman came back, you haven't done anything. For someone you "strongly suspected," you sure didn't go very far. I'm also still curious as to why stef deliberately didn't mention you or AC in his summary post. My thinking is that either there's absolutely nothing worth commenting about you two to him or he's trying to buddy with the two people I have accused.

What do you think would be his motivation for that?

[Unsight]

I have not lurked at all this game

Posted:

Sat May 08, 2010 1:07 pm

Post subject: 3

Mod: Prod on Unsight please?

Posted:

T

ue May 11, 2010 6:37 pm

Post subject: 4

I have not lurked at all this game

I really am getting tired of this. You and stef keep leaving out parts of my posts on purpose. Here's the full quote:

I have not lurked at all during this game. I'm generally able to post at least once/day in all my games during weekdays. I was

away from the game for part of a weekend

and the following Monday.

I was back on Tuesday

and have been active the whole time. I don't lurk.

[Unsight]

Hmm.. if they are both scum I'd rather have nub-scum than active and manipulative scum D2 to be honest. It makes more sense to me so that's why I'd still rather we lynch Unsight first.

I'll wait till tomorrow to see if the Unsight case gets enough heat for a lynch. If not, I'll go for Me=Weird but please weigh in both options.

Also, I think we need a lynch atm. Discussion has run out on most subjects (something going on in the AC corner but otherwise...) and a flip would probably be the most helpful. Me=Weird is at L-2.

Not in favor of lynching Unsight because she's town. I also think that Amish_Charney guy is way scummier than Me=Weird.

So Stef, what do you think of Amish_Charney? After all these pages and posts regarding him, what's your read on him?

[Unsight]

Hang on, what is the AC case? Seems to have sprung up out of nowhere. At this point I would go back to Me=Weird for a deadline lynch, but I would really much rather go for Exemption or deadjoker, as I have mentioned before.

Lots of things will seem to "spring up out of nowhere" when you only post once every two days.

Why Exemption or deadjoker?

[Unsight]

Hang on, what is the AC case? Seems to have sprung up out of nowhere. At this point I would go back to Me=Weird for a deadline lynch, but I would really much rather go for Exemption or deadjoker, as I have mentioned before.

Lots of things will seem to "spring up out of nowhere" when you only post once every two days.

Why Exemption or deadjoker?

That's quite funny, you suggest that my posting rate implies I am not reading the thread, when in fact, you are clearly not reading the thread if you have to ask that question. I have already said that Exemption and deadjoker joined the Me=Weird wagon scummily. I found it curious that this was ignored.

You hardly ever post, you've done almost nothing to actually press your suspects, and you haven't reacted to anything that's been going on in the thread be it my case against AC or stef's case against me. It seems more like you're phoning it in than scum hunting.

You say the AC case sprang out of nowhere but I began earnestly pushing on him on the 15th and your post is on the 24th. You'd have had to ignore pretty much every post by myself and AC for those 9 days to not see it going on.

Before the deadline, how about giving your thoughts on everyone here?

[Unsight]

^ Would have been better had we lynched AC I think, but otherwise yeah. Feels like the last 6 pages have basically just been you, me, and AC. Rereading Soundwish's ISO makes me wish I'd looked more in his direction today if nothing else.

[Unsight]

lolz everyone shot me. xD

Good luck town!