Riddle Me This! NY111 - mafia dead - Town wins!

[DizzyIzzyB13]

/confirm

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Oh great, I shouldn't have confirmed without seeing the player list.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

unvote, vote springlullaby

Dislike the "I'm planning on lurking and being generally useless" post.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Disregard the last post. Mod sent me a PM and I apologize for being hot under the collar.

Izzy, you're much sexier when you're not being horribly hypocritical. Is that not like your second post of the game? Who's lurking more?

I'm not lurking deliberately, though. I'm just going through a slightly busy spell that shuld be over by the weekend.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Alright, I'm through my busy patch and I'm up to date with the game. IT seems to me there are two issues that need to be commented on - VasudeVa and the Dahill wagon.

As regards VasudeVa, I'm pretty much in agreement that he's showing all the signs of newb probable town. Having played a very recent game of this kind with people showing similarish behaviour (including RichardGHP, which is why he's over-estimating my ability at Mafia), I'm pretty sure that he's consistent with the newb town characterisation, although I do leave open the possibility that he's putting on an act if he's as well versed in Mafia as he claims to be, but I consider this unlikely. I can see why Scot has formed the opinion he has, I just think he's horribly wrong.

As for Dahill, I think the case against him is pretty weak, to be honest. I think the post where he reacted to RichardGHP's statement was awkwardly worded, but it struck me the intent of the post wasn't to create the impression that Richard was scummy, and was rather a surprised reaction and an attempt to get the newbie RichardGHP to think about the stupidity of the statement he made in order to convince him otherwise. Aside from that post, there's nothing really to build a case out of other than his response to accusations, which fit the tone in which I read the initial post to be made.

Finally, with regards the status of my vote...

Vote scot

Don't like the way he is going so hard on Vasud, given his possible genuine newbishness.
Don't like his use of 'we' (him and Korts) while replying to Vasud.
Note here that I actually agree with Scot on Vasud playing the newbie card, however I think Vasud's alignment is exactly crapshot at this point, and town, especially more experienced town, is more likely to let it slide for now and see, and him being obtuse about is un-seemingly town for me.

A question to TSQ, why are you all over the place? Also, is that normal for you as town?

This is springlullaby's only post since expressing her intention to actively lurk and only post when she has to. I note that she has declined to make any contribution regarding the other major issue that has arisen so far.

She votes for Scot, essentially because Scot is scumhunnting and he described the actions of himself and another person using "we". It's a horrendously weak case, and the "we" point is... well, stupid considering it was concise and correct English.

Finally, she asks a question of Shea that borders on irrelevent - she's essentially asking himn "Why are you looking for scum everywhere?" and if it is normal for Shea to hunt scum. Strangeness. Scumminess. I'm happy with my vote.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

The scenarios Richard's post fits into are the following: a) he is scum, partnered with Izzy, and trying to deflect any remaining attention from her. b) he is scum, and Izzy is town; he is either trying to get brownie points from her eventual lynch and get into her favor, or he is trying to somehow direct attention back to her by beating a dead horse. c) he is town and is way behind on schedule.

You forgot d) Richard is pretty newbish and is putting too much stock into the events of Mafia 107.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

He's trying to be useful and failing. It's covered by the newbish part.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Lurkerscum Spring's strategy appears to be working.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

There's a difference between lynching all lurkers and lynching people who have expressed scummy intentions towards lurking, before carrying out said plan to lurk as much as possible.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

in fact, my pet hate is getting to, say, day 3 and realising that all the guys who were active and expressing views and who I hence had reads on are now all dead and I'm left with a bunch of unknowns - that's when having a yos or whatever in the game really helps, since his playstyle of KILL ALL LURKERS does tend to get more people involved in the game. I basicaly have no notes on ksun, SL, FFFF, IHSIB or theo, and few on the two guys who replaced in. That's a quarter of the game. It's fine on day 1, but by, say, day 3 we could have a situation where more than half the players are virtual unknowns.

Killing lurkers isn't necessarily a good strategy - often, it's better to try and get them replaced from the gamje with someone who might turn out to be useful. However, when a player shows up, states they intend to lurk, successfully lurks aside from popping up just in time to avoid a prod and engages in entirely opportunistic and poorly reasoned attacks on the rare occasions they show up, I think that person should be lynched ASAP because at best they're a stupid, anti-town player and most likely, they are active lurker scum. More people should be voting for SpringLullaby.

-

Springlullaby

. Lurker and his attack on scotmany is terrible and oportunist.

Not just a lurker, a declared active lurker. The worst kind, since we can't get her replaced.

There's a difference between lynching all lurkers and lynching people who have expressed scummy intentions towards lurking, before carrying out said plan to lurk as much as possible.

OK. And what does that have to do with scumminess?

Active lurking is scummier than regular lurking, since it necessarily indicates a deliberate plan to stay under the radar, produce no content for town analysis, provide as little ammunition for those who want to vote out the lurkerscum and makes it impossible for the pointless, anti-town player to be replaced with someone who could be useful because they'll just post something inane in response to a prod or threat of a prod. For example:

So what prompted this post then?

TSQ's post asking for prods. And the thought that it may be fair to warn people of my Offical Position (tm).

To your other questions: nothing interesting.

Spring scum needs to die. Now.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Izzy, you're still trying to lynch someone for a playstyle philosophy, which is equivalent to policy lynching, which is sub-optimal, anti-town play.

Your attempts to characterise scummy behaviour as a policy lynch or a lynch based on playstyle philosophy is troubling.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

~What gets wet as it drys?~

A towel?

You're the leading wagon right now. Get in the game.

---

@Dizzy: What do you think about mipe? I agree that springlullaby has been sparse in content... if there at all. Is their posting comparative at all in your mind?

Mipe is also an acceptable lynch. Spring is a better one.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Cute. You've managed to get to L-2, got anything useful to contribute?

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Mod: Request prods for the people who haven't posted in a while. Particularly springlullaby.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

I'd be fine with a ksun wagon. My main problem with mipe is that he is actively not doing shit and openly admitting it. I'd much rather for him to get replaced but until then..

Which is more scummy, me telling my flaws in the game, or someone else telling my flaws in the game?

What's even scummier is being deliberately obfuscatory and refusing to play the game.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Do you plan on doing anything with that time?

[DizzyIzzyB13]

This is less of a case of an antitown style of play and more a case of a guy refusing to play the game. I'd be quite happy with a forced replacement, honestly.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Which is a stupid reason, Richard.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

I have some family issues, and I've fallen a bit behind. I need to catch up before I can post anything useful at the moment. Sorry. Hopefully, this will be tonight, but I make no promises.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Hmm. I don't really have much to say to this game, it's going so slowly I wasn't really behind all that much. I'd love for a scummier alternative to arise, but a mipe lynch is the best thing going at the moment. His response to suspicion has been to avoid providing a worthwhile contribution or attempt to play the game. It's suspicious, anti-town and scummy.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Mod: springlullaby hasn't posted since Friday, March 12th. Can we get a replacement, please?

~I promise I have not ditched this game. I have been searching for replacements for quite some time now and will establish a set deadline for when everyone is replaced in.~

[DizzyIzzyB13]

As of so far, Izzy's clear reluctance to comment on the single biggest event in the game is the biggest scumlead. I'm not doing the vote as you go along thing, though.

Which is?

[DizzyIzzyB13]

It was the dahill wagon. You then responded to it in your first post after Shea points this out. I certainly don't like your leaving your vote on a lurker who is obviously not going to be lynched this late in the day.

Would you prefer I wasn't voting for anybody?

[DizzyIzzyB13]

It was the dahill wagon. You then responded to it in your first post after Shea points this out. I certainly don't like your leaving your vote on a lurker who is obviously not going to be lynched this late in the day.

Would you prefer I wasn't voting for anybody?

Obviously not, and this is a silly strawman. If I'm suspicious of you for wasting your vote on something that's not going to cause a lynch, i'd be even more suspicious of you wasting your vote on something that by definition can't cause a lynch.

What I imagine the correct protown play to be, once you realised you weren't going to get SL lynched today, would have been to look at all the other votes anyone else was pushing, and see which one you could get behind and attempt to drum up a wagon for. By leaving it as a sole vote on a lurker, there's very little there to glean- you can't even interrogate her to provide info for future days, because she isn't here.

Same problem I had with Shanba- I'd expect a decent player such as him, when he realised he didn't like the leading wagon, to make a concerted effort to push a counterwagon, not just go, 'Oh, i guess i should be voting,' vote someone, and leave it there.

There's plenty of time left. There's no need to get desperate for a lynch yet. Thus, my vote is on the person I believe to be scummiest. If it wasn't on SL, it'd be on no lynch until we get desperate enough that any lynch will do.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Uh, Izzy, there's five days until deadline. You've spent a couple of weeks talking about how SpringLullaby needs to die. Not one person has joined you on that wagon. What you're doing here is hiding behind what ethicists call 'Integrity of the person' - that is, you're happy enough for mipe to go down, but you don't want to get your own hands dirty doing it. Therefore, you'll park your vote somewhere where it clearly isn't doing any good. Springlullaby has not posted in THREE WEEKS. That's clearly not lurking, that's 'She's gone inactive and is going to be replaced.'

As I said - plenty of time. I've expressed a willingness to jump on the mipe wagon if necessary in order to get a lynch. I am not joining that wagon until then so that we can at least attempt to get a better lynch going, even if it looks unlikely. The rest of that post isn't worth responding to because it's ridiculous.

Meanwhile, you'll wait it out until, in your own words, 'We're so desperate for a lynch that any lynch will do' and you can shift to mipe without anyone blaming you for it, because it's desperate and the alternative to mipe is nolynch.

Mipe is a sub-optimal lynch. I'm not going to encourage a sub-optimal lynch until it's necessary.

What are you trying to achieve, Izzy?

A good lynch for the town.

You're clearly on record as disapproving of SL's distaste for the low-information part of day one. You have the possibility of making a choice between two wagons, something which will lead to the generation of actual information. But you choose to, basically, active lurk instead.

Blatant mischaracterisation of behaviour noted.

There's a stage between 'No time pressure at all, vote whoever you think is scummiest' and 'so desperate, any lynch will do.' That stage is 'vote the best viable wagon.'

No.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

unvote

Hi, Yos!

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Also, we may have a Shea issue, since mith's description of his groundless ban doesn't say whether it's GD only. How Adel managed to get Shea banned for doing nothing is anybody's guess.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Also, we may have a Shea issue, since mith's description of his groundless ban doesn't say whether it's GD only. How Adel managed to get Shea banned for doing nothing is anybody's guess.

Yeah, what the fuck was that shit? mith needs to quit being so unjustifiably arrogant and stubborn and put someone actually capable of moderating the board on the task. He's a shell of himself.

The worst thing is that Adel was blatantly fishing for a Shea ban, Shea took the high road and didn't go for his bait and still gets banned. There's no fucking justice and mith should be ashamed of himself that Shea gets banned when I could probably name 5 people from that one thread who were more deserving.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

The main problem with the Richard wagon is that Richard lacks the capacity to put on as good a show of Richard town as he is if he were to be scum. If it's a straight choice between Richard and ksun (and it's not, it's a false dichotomy right now), then I guess ksun's a better lynch.

The fact that the mipe wagon has stalled makes it worthy of analysis, since I'm of the opinion that there are two scenarios we need to consider. If mipe is town, then scum is either lurking or on the wagon already, since they've had plenty of opportunity to get a mipe lynch since we've brushed up against the deadline. If mipe is scum... we need to lynch him. Those who believe we have mipe town, where do you think the scum is with regards the mipewagon?

[DizzyIzzyB13]

I'm really not happy with the Richard wagon.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

But Izzy's immediate unvote of Yos upon his entry does not, to me, say that she was utterly convinced his slot was scum.

What it means is that I'm always willing to give replacements a chance to redeem themselves from the prior incarnation. Nothing more, nothing less.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Until a replacement is found, there's always a chance she can come back if there's been an issue that's affected her ability to play, and she could resume the game. It's happened to me before - I requested replacement in all my games because of an issue that kept me from being able to play for an indeterminate period that ended up being about 3-4 weeks and when I returned, I was still alive and unreplaced in one of my games. Until a replacement is announced by a mod, I always assume the player will be back.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Vote Count

scotmany12- springlullaby, zoraster (L-9)
dahill1- Thestatusquo (L-10)
mipe - PaltryExcuse, VasudeVad, ksun482, sorasagoof, RichardGHP, FeFiFoFum (L-5)
RichardGHP- scotmany12, Mipe, Yosarian2, Quagmire, korts (L-6)
ksun482- Shanba, dahill1, The Fonz, inHimshallibe, iamausername (L-6)
Paltry Excuse- Anon (L-10)

With 20 alive, its 11 to lynch

Deadline is April 7th, two days from now.

~I am lighter then a feather, yet no man can hold me for very long.~

The riddle answe is his "His breath".

I think you need to check the votecount. sprinlullaby has been replaced by Yos and thus shouldn't be voting for Scot.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Also...

vote ksun

. I'm not sure how available I'll be for the next day or so. Of the three leading candidates, mipe is not going to be lynched else he would have been gone already, and Richard is a bad lynch candidate because I'm fairly confident that he's town based on his play so far.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

I request a clarification from the mod.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Hey guys!

1.) Deadline: The Day phase will last 3 weeks starting from the thread unlocking. When the deadline is up, the greatest majority will end up being lynched. If there is a tie, the one with the first vote gets lynched. If requested, I will extend the deadline.

THe only way "greatest majority" makes sense in that sentence is if he means "plurality". So there's actually no need to vote anyone just to secure a lynch: a lynch is guaranteed! You can vote your conscience!

I am. Whilst a ksun lynch isn't optimal, a Richard lynch is less optimal.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

There are a lot of weakish cases and no strong ones, mostly due to the various interruptions that have happened during day one that have lead to limited posting by a number of people in the game and the number of replacements. given the amount of time he's been in the game and the posting rate over that period, Yos can't be the optimal lynch - while spring was certainly scummy, Yos is less so and I feel an extra day phase is necessary to determine his alignment.

Right now... eh, I'd probably make mipe the optimal play, tbh. Aside from the possibility of lynching scum, which in his case is about as high as anyone in the game given his behaviour, a mipe lynch would also provide us with the most useful wagon analysis data to work with. I mean, given how the mipe wagon stalled, we could benefit from the context knowing his alignment would give us. Alas, mipe lynch is less likely than a Richard or ksun lynch, and ksun is the better option.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Why are you wishing for anti-town things to happen, Yos?

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Why are you wishing for anti-town things to happen, Yos?

:eyebrow: How is lynching Richard anti-town? Do you really think he's likely town here, Izzy?

Yes.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Given the nature of the two kills last night raising the possibility of a SK being amongst us... does this affect anyone's read of mipe?

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Not really; I think mipescum is a more likely prospect than mipeSK.

Sorry if I'm being dumb, but:

Since I started, I have always thought that

SK = Serialkiller (duh)

Scum = Baddie, basically. Scum could be mafia, SK, Wolf...

So are you saying that me being SK/mafia/etc. is more likely than me being just SK?

If yes, then, Congratulations, we have new Sherlock Holmes in here!

Before you all go "baww what do you mean", is that, well:
There were 2 kills last night. If there was a town killer, then nothing about that, but if there wasn't any sort of vig, that would mean there is mafia (1 or more on the same team) and a SK. Yes, me being 2/17 scum IS more likely than 1/17 of being scum.

That's a stupidly picky point and oddly specific numbers.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Congratulations, Furcolow, you've done more to further the scum cause in your brief period than FeFiFoFum did during his entire miserable existence. Bravo.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Mmmm... I quite like that Anon case. But then, I'm starting to like a Furcolow lynch, too. Decisions, decision...

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Richard is behaving differently than he has in the games I have him labeled as town.

And yet he's behaving exactly the same way as games where he's definitevely confirmed town.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

unvote, vote fucolow

.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Well, I've played with Richard before, and he feels scummy for me in relation to his town play.

I've played with Richard before (in, y'know, a completed game) and his performance in this game is entirely consistent with his crappy play as town.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

~Forgive my deletions, but CMAR's post was edited out as well as any responses too it. If you have an issue with that, let me know.~

It's great, I'm just glad that cheat isn't replacing into this game.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

To people not on the Anon wagon: why not? I'm pretty sure this is the strongest wagon we've had all game (yeah I know, ksun was scum and he was wagonned, but the case was not as strong as the case against Anon is, imho.)

I'm not entirely sure of Anon atm, but I will look at him in ISO if I have time tommorrow.

Also, Izzy, if you have meta regarding Dicks play, plz share kthx.

One game does not make a meta. His play in this game, however, is entirely consistent with his terrible play in a game in which he was confirmed to be a town-aligned Jack of All Trades.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

The fact you have so many votes on you is down to your scummy behaviour.

However...

unvote, vote Anon

Having been presented with examples of Furcolow as town, I'm willing to concede that he may well be cut from the same cloth as Richard at the moment. Anon is the strongest case otherwise and while I have bad vibes about an Anon wagon, I can't put my finger on why, so... there the vote goes.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Let's just lynch Anon so we can try and get this game to reach it's conclusion as painlessly as possible.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Hmmm.

vote: VasudeVa

, I guess.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Ugh, I suppose a mislynch is better than no lynch.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

LOL

The wagon on me fails, quite hard.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

I very much believe Richard's claim.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

FFS, someone needs to fucking fix the goddamn forum issues.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Also,

unvote

, since my reasons for voting VaqsudeVa have obviously changed.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Also, Izzy, what the heck do you mean with these posts?

I very much believe Richard's claim.

Ugh, I suppose a mislynch is better than no lynch.

Explain plz.

1) Well, considering I've been very consistent with expressing my opinion that Richard is town, and the fact that his claim is consistent with the role Korts was revealed to have upon his death (Odd Night Cop), you do the math.

2) I don't see how it's ambiguous. A mislynch is better than no lynch for the town at this stage, because at least there's wagon information and a confirmed townie to examine. When I stated that, it looked very much like Richard would be lynched because he was being stupid, which I am, and always have been convinced would lead to a mislynch.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

At first glance, Id say Richard's is prob a fakeclaim. Specially for the use of TOWN in the role claim and the odd "need a vc to check if I should claim" post.

In context of stupid newb town, rigidly sticking to "rules" like "don't claim 'till you're at L-1" is not odd. Also, I don't think the "Town" thing is relevent, since I'm guessing he just copied and pasted his role from his role PM and good mods make it clear to power roles the faction they're aligned with in their role PMs in order to avoid confusion.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

At first glance, Id say Richard's is prob a fakeclaim. Specially for the use of TOWN in the role claim and the odd "need a vc to check if I should claim" post.

In context of stupid newb town, rigidly sticking to "rules" like "don't claim 'till you're at L-1" is not odd. Also, I don't think the "Town" thing is relevent, since I'm guessing he just copied and pasted his role from his role PM and good mods make it clear to power roles the faction they're aligned with in their role PMs in order to avoid confusion.

My point was that its odd when someone makes that type of posts: "Ill go check if Im at range claim or not" since you could as well decide if you should claim or not without posting that.

Also why are you assuming things and answering for Richard?

Finally, who is your top suspect now?

Because he's demonstrably incapable of doing it himself and I'd prefer we not lynch people I'm pretty convinced are town.

Top suspect is undetermined, pending a re-read. This game is a mess, and I feel the need to reconnect with it properly.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

unvote, vote zoraster

[DizzyIzzyB13]

you guys are ridiculous. Yes, my commencement is in essentially two days (http://weblaw.usc.edu/events/index.cfm? ... =5/14/2010), yes I have a 30 page paper due less than 24 hours before that. Yes, I would like to graduate.

So no, this is not particularly "convenient" for me.

So lynch me if that's really what you want to do, but I will not be posting in here again before I am done with the paper, so I'm not sure what you hope to gain unless you actually think I'm scummy. In which case go to town (no pun intended).

You could have claimed in this post, so we could react to it. This suggests you are either scum or vanilla, and the refusal to say "I'm a vanilla toenie" in this post suggests... diescumdie.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Sigh. DeathNote needs to show up and deal with the problem with this game.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Nobody better lynch anybody until DeathNote shows back up. Or else.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Oh, I was going to ask, is it prodding/activity that is the problem, Izzy, or am I missing something?

Something else. At this point, I'm pretty convinced I need to be replaced in order to ensure the integrity of the game, thanks to something that happened last night.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

No, it's a different issue than just lurkers.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Farside: I shot you a PM about the issue.