Mini 971: Princess bride - They all lived .......

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Confirm.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

2 more votes.

Two more votes is lynch, so you'll tell us the reasons for lynching Sens after we've already lynched him. Yeah, that's probably not going to work for me so much.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Are you implying that you would be ok with 1 more vote? Since you specifically object to 2 more votes but say nothing about 1 more vote.

Since there is a functional difference of dead (2 votes) versus not dead (1 vote), yes.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

The chance of a quickhammer does not concern you then.

If you weren't voting for Sens already I might worry about it from you because of the position you've staked out, but no I don't think anyone would be aggressive/dumb enough to quickhammer.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Jack, any reason for the utter strangeness of your play? I mean you appeared to play very conventionally as town in Gonzo Mafia. But in this game you’ve done your best to resemble a bulldozer in a china shop.

I’ve got a town lean on Mike right now, I’m reading his efforts as being in good faith. Conversely, I think the person in opposition to him (Parama) is much more likely to be scum. I like the little content I’ve seen from KMD as well, but I’m naturally more suspicious of him because he’s capable of deluding himself into thinking other people are scum even when he’s scum himself. Most everyone else currently blends into a mush of people I’ve not played with before and don’t stand out at all.

Best place for a vote right now is…

Vote: bv310

Only thing he talks about on day one are being from Canada, donuts, and Sens ragequitting after it’s already happened. There’s just no evidence he’s trying to figure out who is town and who is scum.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

"town lean on mike" but his efforts are in good faith. I don't think scum's efforts are ever in good faith in a 1 scum game (which this now is).

Only a town lean on mike though, and parama is "much more likely to be scum".

Umm, I think Mike's efforts at scumhunting are in good faith; thus I think he's likely town. I'm not sure what the issue is here.

vote bv? Not scumhunting? Have you played with bv before?

Once, he actually tried that game as town before flaking, this time he hasn't even done that.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Correction, I just realized I've played two games with him; I was referencing a newbie game where I believe that summary fits. There was also Quiz Show Mafia, but that had rather different rules from a conventional mafia game.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

We're not giving bv310 a free pass to not scumhunt.

By "we" you mean you and DDD? Why would you say that?

Because even if "not scumhunting" is a null tell as you've suggested then we need to get him to contribute or replace out so that we have something we can actually evaluate.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

DDD, what is your stance on the Parama-ekiM fracas?

I still think Mike is town, but I'm now inclined to believe its a town/town fight. Mostly because Mike noted Parama's ridiculous rate of posting which even when its low content I find scum have a general disinclination to do.

Oh and bv310 sheeps onto the biggest wagon that wouldn't have been an OMGUS vote (which could've hurt the credibility of the wagon), color me unimpressed with his attempt at content.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

DDD is scum because:

a) weird dancing around the sens wagon in iso 1,2,3. His first comment on the game is to object to lynching sens, but he is just fine with l-1...this is his only input on the day. This is mafioso wanting the lynch to happen.

You were fine with L-1 as well, hypocrite.

I was hoping to see what arguments would be made for/against him being at L-1. It's a kind of pressure situation that you can get good reads from after the flip. Kinda didn't get much with the self hammer though.

That was my exact position and still is, L-1 useful for reads, so quickly dead (with a self-hammer) means there's not much to go on, contrary to KMD's attempts to find something in it.

b) Next is his "town lean on mike, parama is MUCH more likely to be scum, I'll vote a lurker" vote from day 2. "tut tut we must force him to scumhunt" when DDD hasn't done jack himself.

So, do you plan on enabling all the anti-town players or just the ones that are especially more likely to be scum?

c) Finally in ISO 8 he finds a reason to stick with his bv vote, he is clearly scum just settling down

Really if you have some fantastic town spin on bv's one post with content I'd love to hear it, but I'm pretty confident I'm reading the intent and purpose correctly.

I waited around to see what he'd do, answer is

nothing

scumhunt.

FTFW.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

3 more votes on DDD.

Is the reason that you're facilitating anti-town behavior in others so that there's precedent set that players are allowed to behave in such a fashion thus allowing you to coast through the game with this nonsense?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Correction, I just realized I've played two games with him; I was referencing a newbie game where I believe that summary fits. There was also Quiz Show Mafia, but that had rather different rules from a conventional mafia game.

have you ever played with him as scum?

No.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Um, why should a name claim clear Parama?

It doesn't, I can only assume Parama thought it would because I can't think of any other reason for an unprompted name claim. I'd love to hear the logic behind that move from Parama though.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

there is no real reason to lynch anyone Day 1.

Umm, what?

~~~

Parama do you plan on doing anything today other than blithely asserting that you're not scum and pointing back at the beginning of the day as some tour de force implicating Mike as scum and revealing you as town?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I think DDD is guilty for role related reasons. Lynch him please.

Bull and shit. The only question is whether you're completely fabricating results or if your alleged role has given you some sort of misleading result. So, which is it?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

And now... INB4BANDWAGONACCUSATIONS LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Unvote; Vote: Parama

Just because you try to make a joke of it doesn't mean that you haven't lazily jumped on the wagon spawned by a lunatic with no results or bad results of some sort to try and lynch a townie.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I didn't lie, but I'm more interested in Parama and SPS at the moment, explain why later.

You should add Mike to the list (though this conflicts with Parama unless extreme bussing has occurred) because he's seen me get called out by a paranoid cop in Second String Muppets before when I was town. He was scum and completely dropped his town read of me to play follow the cop, just like this game.

Fool me once, Mike, shame on you; fool me twice, Mike, shame on me. You're not pulling that shit on me twice.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Yes, I worry about mike, but that's a playstyle I misread a lot (he writes very carefully). I misread him as scum for a long time in gonzo.

Sure, but unlike the others who may or may not have been in a situation like this before I know Mike has done this before and should have the sense to be a bit more cautious.

Too bad no one manned up and defended me, that'd have been a nice town tell.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Unvote; Vote: ekiM

Game is stagnating and Mike should die for so casually tossing aside his read to play follow the alleged power role, put those two together and Mike needs more votes.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Unvote; Vote: ekiM

Game is stagnating and Mike should die for so casually tossing aside his read to play follow the alleged power role, put those two together and Mike needs more votes.

so you have gone from thinking Para is scum, to voting with him for NO reason?


I would also be ok with a DDD rewagon

I've gone from thinking Parama is scum to a [insult redacted] who will jump on any bandwagon at this point. I was also waiting to see if Mike could explain his actions which seemed extremely scummy to me. Mike has not done so and that game has stagnated over the weekend and thus the best course of action is to bandwagon the scummiest player.

I guess I didn't make my opinion on Parama known this weekend, but I made it quite clear that I found Mike scummy lately.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

It's a fallacy to say that because I've done something as scum it means I wouldn't do it as town. I do actually believe that if someone comes out with role-related info as Jack did they're probably not scum sacrificing themselves to take out one guy. The difference between this game and Muppets is that there the cop was too careless to note the obvious hints that he was paranoid. I doubted Jack would claim info unless he thought it was solid. I trust his competence at this game so I deferred to him and was willing to follow his claimed power role. You haven't explained why anyone wouldn't. Yes, I've seen town roles get bad info before. That doesn't mean I discard claimed info out of hand.

I don't know what read you're saying I'm going back on. I don't have any particular reason to think you're town. Asserting that anyone who suspects you is stupid isn't actually persuasive to me.

The fact that you've seen cops and other power roles get bad info means you shouldn't blindly follow them as you've done in this game (and this assumes a truthful claim which given Jack's erratic and aggresive style isn't a very safe assumption). You take your time to get the full truth instead of cravenly rushing to hide behind someone else's claim. And no, you didn't flop on a town read of me, but you did show a certain reticence and skepticism to my wagon that still makes your sudden conversion suspcious.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Also, if I were lying about my beliefs, wouldn't I have been acutely aware that you'd remember Muppets and call me out for my skullduggery? So it must be the case that I do actually believe what I'm saying.

Isn't this just straight up WIFOM? Here's nearly half a dozen thought process that could've justified your behavior in your mind...

1) Because you forgot you did the exact same thing in Muppets and thus thought the play was safe.
2) Because you knew you were doing the same thing as in Muppets, but you hoped I wouldn't remember it.
3) Because you knew you were doing the same thing as in Muppets, but you were hoping for my quicklynch and thus I wouldn't be able to object anyways.
4) Because you knew you were doing the same thing as in Muppets, but you figured you could argue that the move was technically correct even if it wasn't.
5) Because you knew you were doing the same thing as in Muppets, but you figured you could shake suspicion because of the WIFOM potential.

So, no, I'm not exactly buying the WIFOM back door you've left yourself as a sufficient defense of your play.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I don't generally do things as scum that blatantly contradict what I believe about Mafia theory, because that's a stupid and unnecessary thing to do and it's easy to get caught out.

If you don't care for that truth, it was an aside anyway. Here's my main "defence" which you seem to have just straight-up ignored: "Everyone is aware that investigative roles can get bad info. That doesn't make it irrational to sometimes decide to follow claimed results. Especially in a pseudo-D1 with little information to go on due to the SK quicklynch. Saying that because I've seen you be implicated by bad info before I should be especially wary of it happening to you again is a bad argument."

And I'm saying that the Muppets game disproves the theory that it's good play to automatically follow someone claiming PR and that after that no rational person should do so blindly. I cannot believe your position is authentic and thus you're stuck using (one of) the reasons I listed previously to try and cover for the mistake you made trying to sheep behind a pseudo-claim like that.

~~~

Parama, can you confirm alignment or just the fact that horror is who he claims to be in terms of role?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Your logic implies that everyone who followed Jack and is aware roles can get bad info must be scum. Nope.

I'm willing to bet a majority of them are idiots and hacks who could actually hold the terrible position of "lol follow power roles". I know you aren't an idiot or hack which is why you holding that position is uniquely terrible.

But there's no traction for a Mike lynch despite my protests and a minority lynch is completely unacceptable.

Unvote; Vote: horrordude0215

Oh hey, he replaced bv310 who I already tagged as scummy. His intro post isn't good as he completely meanders and fails to take an opinion on three players he mentions, doesn't mention several more and flacks me asking for a claim preparing to lynch me and then probably chain a Jack lynch because of his announced skepticism after I flip town.

And his claim is just a debacle. He can't specifically nameclaim or be modkilled but he can still claim exactly who he is? As recently mentioned it also seems a clever way to grant scum NK immunity in a game with a SK.