Mini 971: Princess bride - They all lived .......

[MacavityLock]

This is a post confirming my confirmation.

[MacavityLock]

Vote: Shovel

By the way, I'm a miller. I love milling. I mill the hell out of all the shit I can get my hands on. I will name claim if requested by a majority of players, or if someone gives me some compelling reason to do so.

[MacavityLock]

P.S. Shovel vote is semi-random. I think someone was trying to force a joke a bit too much.

[MacavityLock]

FoS Mac

for claiming to vote "semi" randomly.

You've never heard of a semi-random vote?

Also, if you feel like voting me Sens, you may want to actually

Vote

me.

[MacavityLock]

(hello ML!)

Hiya!

Also, I hate Miller claims.

Me too!

[MacavityLock]

You've never heard of a semi-random vote?

They normally come from scum who don't want to commit to their vote, so they call it "semi-random" or "a half-joke" or something like that.

I've committed my vote just as much as anyone who random voted, stated my not really random, but admittedly weak reason for it. It was in no way a joke vote.

Meta doesn't suck, but for me to follow along if someone uses a meta tell, I'm going to need examples.

[MacavityLock]

Mac, why is Shovel scummy? If there's reasoning, no matter how weak, it's not "semi-random", it's a "weak serious vote".

Sorry, I guess I use those terms interchangeably.

P.S. Shovel vote is semi-random. I think someone was trying to force a joke a bit too much.

Let's do a popcorn claim.

I'll start: I have no popcorn.

Yes, this is clearly a joke, but it's not helpful, and potentially distracting.

[MacavityLock]

Towniest self-vote I ever saw.

Kmd, I'm have no problem with your current ekiM read.

[MacavityLock]

Do you see ekiM as scum? Why is Shovel scummier?

Pre-the ekiM-Shovel scuffle that happened, they were about equal. Now, not so much.

It would also help him avoid the nightkill though.

Not to mention that as a SK you wouldn't be letting your partners down if you screwed up.

Here he's saying that people who find me townie even given my miller claim fail because they neglect SKs. This is basically nonsense, and bringing up SKs at all at this point is not useful.

----

reaching for reasons to hold onto an RVS vote ofc

Weak. Why would scum have incentive to hold onto a random vote?

----

Also, not pursuing the Miller lynch to the end of the day.

Meta examples to show he pursues miller lynch to the ends of the earth as town please.

ani, why am I scum? Didn't you just say

Also, Mac = Jack are town.

----

I believe the Miller claim, that being said I have seen Kubai Khan (sp?) do the exact same thing as scum....so by claiming Miller, most likely menas ML wont see the end of game. But that was just the luck of the draw, claiming miller was the right move (if he really is a miller). ML is not the lynch today....however, that isnt a pass for the whole game (but you should know that).

Absolutely correct, I shouldn't be part of end game. By claiming early, I'm doing my best to ensure that. I'm presenting myself immediately as a bad target for cops, and a great target for vigs. (Hint, hint vigs!) (1-shot vigs need not apply.)

[MacavityLock]

The following people need to post content like now: bv, wolf, DDD.

----

Shovel, yesterday you were asking wolframnhart to follow you onto Para. Now you're voting for wolf. What, if anything has changed?

I often ask people to join me in bandwagonning early on in the game. There's no longer a Paramawagon and I see no particular reason to recreate one.

I was totally going to ask ekiM's question first, and I don't believe it's satisfactorily answered yet. Why ask wnh specifically for the follow?

----

reaching for reasons to hold onto an RVS vote ofc

Weak. Why would scum have incentive to hold onto a random vote?

Still an open question.

The scum here is obvious.

vote: ekiM

.

Make a case that doesn't involve "holding onto a random vote".

----

Why did

vote for bv310 over the guy who is seemingly his top suspect?

Fascinating, captain.

----

Jack, you're playing a most dangerous game.

Vote: DDD

[MacavityLock]

They can't find a better reason to vote so they make stuff up to hold onto the only vote they can.

Why is scum any more likely to do this than town?

[MacavityLock]

Parama, I actually have no problem with the reasons ekiM stated in terms of his vote on you. They're completely reasonable, in my opinion.

Now, you're complaining about ekiM for 2 different things: On the one hand, you're saying that holding onto a random vote is scummy because scum make up reasons to do so. On the other hand, you're saying that ekiM's case/vote on you is bad, which is why you're voting him.

Those are two very different things. The former is ridiculous: Scum have no more reason to hold onto a random vote than town does. In fact, if anything, I think a scum might be more willing to move their vote around early, picking up on whatever little new scummy thing they can find from a non-buddy. The latter reason you state is reasonable, assuming that you do find ekiM's case bad.

Still, you're trying to conflate these two very different statements, and I don't like it.

[MacavityLock]

Shovel, there's still an open question to you:

Why ask wnh specifically for the follow?

Reference to Day 1.

@mod

, I am currently voting DDD.

Fixed

[MacavityLock]

Emergency V/LA due to flat tire away from home. On borrowed time on a friend's comp. Will be back soon (a day?) hopefully.

[MacavityLock]

Back from emergency V/LA. Catching up.

[MacavityLock]

The recent ekiM-Parama debate convinces me to

Unvote. Vote: Parama

.

[MacavityLock]

If someone ccs my nameclaim then that makes them a real idiot, so I don't see why you wouldn't believe it.

Yeah, that. Laying it on a bit thick, I think.

Unvote. Vote: Shovel

.

[MacavityLock]

This turn of events does not surprise me.

Unvote. Vote: DDD

.

[MacavityLock]

Macavity--

How often would you say you get investigated?

Rarely. I'm generally thought to be a pretty townie player. I've only even been brought to L-1 once as town, and been lynched in probably less than half my scum games.

Have you ever been investigated by the cop as scum?

I can only remember one game where this occurred, but the cop was blocked that night by the town's Jailkeeper.

You ever been in a game with a miller before?

Yes.

Ever been in a game where scum claimed miller?

No, but I've read one.

Ever been in a game where scum made a bold claim day one?

How bold are we talking? Bold-stupid I've seen. Bold-amazing-carried-them-to-victory, I can't think of one.

How do you feel about name claiming?

As stated in my miller claim post, I have no problem name-claiming if a majority of town requests it, or any one person can give me a compelling reason to do so.

To respond to hd, yes my last 3 posts were all vote jumps, and I'll tell you why. My vote started the day on DDD, following Jack. If you look back at my first DDD-vote, it should be pretty clear that I thought Jack probably had role-related reasons for the vote. That wagon went nowhere, and so I felt my vote was being wasted.

In the Parama-ekiM argument, Parama admitted that he bandwagoned for literally no reason and wanted to be on the inevitable lynch. Pretty damn scummy in my book. Then Parama name-claimed. As much as I would never do it myself, and there is certainly a possibility of a fake-claim, the manner in which he did it read as frustrated townie to me.

I definitely think that Parama is scummy, but I do think Shovel is a better suspect at this point. He has been active lurky, really reads like he's trying to "act town," and if Jack wants to back off DDD, Shovel needs more pressure.

Unvote. Vote: Shovel

.

[MacavityLock]

Why aren't there more Shovel votes?

[MacavityLock]

I targetted curiouskarmadog Night 1 which I breadcrumbed in my first post of the Day. I got an innocent (obviously).

Why target CKD night 1?

[MacavityLock]

I considered Jack but I knew I wouldn't be able to breadcrumb an "Innocent"-result on Jack.

Yes, what does this mean?

Unvote. Vote: horror

Jack, you need to start providing actual content tomorrow.

[MacavityLock]

LOL, Macavity, why the sudden jump on a bandwagon with no reason?

Intro post was pretty horrible, not much original thought there at all. Weak vote on Jack. Shitting on a claim for flavor is a crappy reason to question. (Especially when it doesn't seem like that big of a leap to me.)

Also, we're quickly approaching deadline, and I find the ekiM wagon to be pretty awful. I haven't seen a real reason for anybody to be on it, expect for DDD's. (I understand DDD's stance on ekiM, but do not agree with it. I was actually scumbuddies with ekiM in the referenced Muppets game, so I see where DDD is coming from, but I do think there is a difference in the play.) Uncountered claimed cop SPS is not the play today. That means you, horror.

----

I considered Jack but I knew I wouldn't be able to breadcrumb an "Innocent"-result on Jack.

Yes, what does this mean?

Clearly being able to breadcrumb my result effectively is a boon to the town. I felt I would be able to do that if I investigated ckd, whereas it would've been very difficult if I investigated Jack.

I get the What, now tell me Why. Why would it have been difficult to breadcrumb a result on Jack? Why would you assume that you'd have to breadcrumb an "Innocent"?

[MacavityLock]

They can't find a better reason to vote so they make stuff up to hold onto the only vote they can.

Why is scum any more likely to do this than town?

Trying to blow a valid point off as WIFOM, aren't we? Bad.

It's not a valid point. I still don't understand why a scum is any more likely to hold onto a random vote than a townie would.

Parama, I actually have no problem with the reasons ekiM stated in terms of his vote on you. They're completely reasonable, in my opinion.

Oh really. You've never commented on them, and for all I know you don't even know them. This is more buddying and you seem to have no reasons of your own to suspect me other than that I am suspecting ekiM.

Yup, really. I think your case on ekiM is crap, a case which I was thinking makes you scummy. Also, you admitted bandwagoning an "inevitable wagon" for the sake of being on the wagon. It's ridiculous.

The recent ekiM-Parama debate convinces me to

Unvote. Vote: Parama

.

And you're not even going to comment on any of it or acknowledge what's being said. You're totally ekiM's buddy, aren't you?

My comment was my vote.

If someone ccs my nameclaim then that makes them a real idiot, so I don't see why you wouldn't believe it.

Yeah, that. Laying it on a bit thick, I think.

Unvote. Vote: Shovel

.

Um. Reasons? I know you've said stuff in the past but you didn't seem to have genuine suspicion... and now you're changing without a reason either.

I was actually agreeing with you here. Saying outright that you believe a name claim doesn't make any sense to me, unless you want to telegraph that you think that name-claimer is telling the truth. I could see two reasons for that, and not many more:
1) A cop breadcrumbing an innocent.
2) A scum who wants townie points ("Look guys, I totally thought that Parama was town, and he was! I was right!")

This turn of events does not surprise me.

Unvote. Vote: DDD

.

wagon wagon wagon wagon wagon
When have you even MENTIONED DDD before? You haven't! You're not even going to question Jack's claimed info?

Actually, I did mention DDD. I voted for him in my first vote of the day, very obviously following Jack. I figured based on Jack's early vote that Jack actually did have role-related info on DDD, I followed him early, and when he claimed the info, I clearly believed him. Read my isos 9 and 17 please.

Why aren't there more Shovel votes?

BWAHAHAHA you're not voting Shovel at the time you say this. Way to push a lynch without actually being on it.

Um, yes I was. Check my isos 18 and 19.

I considered Jack but I knew I wouldn't be able to breadcrumb an "Innocent"-result on Jack.

Yes, what does this mean?

Unvote. Vote: horror

Jack, you need to start providing actual content tomorrow.

What does any of this post have to do with horror? Why are you just bandwagon while acting like giving content?

Explained immediately after in my iso 22.

[MacavityLock]

It's not a valid point. I still don't understand why a scum is any more likely to hold onto a random vote than a townie would.

They're not actually scumhunting, they don't feel like coming up with good "real" reasons to suspect someone so they hold on to what they've already got in hopes to push a lynch without much effort.

And a townie would hold onto a random vote because something happened to make their suspicions legitimate. How do you tell them apart?

Yup, really. I think your case on ekiM is crap, a case which I was thinking makes you scummy. Also, you admitted bandwagoning an "inevitable wagon" for the sake of being on the wagon. It's ridiculous.

Calling a case "crap" does nothing to disprove it. At all.

It's impossible to "disprove" a case without a flip. I disagree with your case and think it's scummy.

And yes, thank you, I did admit to bandwagoning. Can anyone else on the wagon truthfully claim their vote wasn't a bandwagon?

Animorph probably wouldn't, as he gave an actually reason for it in his vote post. You'd have to ask ckd and KMD for their reasons.

My comment was my vote.

But you didn't state explicitly why the argument made me look like scum to you.

Meh, laziness and obviousness.

I was questioning your SPS vote.

And I gave you my reason, which was basically in agreement with you.

Actually, I did mention DDD. I voted for him in my first vote of the day, very obviously following Jack. I figured based on Jack's early vote that Jack actually did have role-related info on DDD, I followed him early, and when he claimed the info, I clearly believed him. Read my isos 9 and 17 please.

That's not your own suspicion, that's following someone else's suspicion for no real reason.

Damn right it's a follow. My "real reason" was obvious role-related reasons from someone else.

Why didn't you have it at the time of your vote though? You can come up with reasons when you place a vote, too.

'Cause I didn't feel like it at the time.

[MacavityLock]

Unvote.

Dod Gammit, after reflection I think I believe horror's claim.

That's L-1 then?

Vote horror

KMD, why did you make this post? You were already voting for horror at the time. Was this a pretend hammer?

With the way this day has gone, I think I'd be most interested in either a CMAR or a DDD lynch, but it's mostly gut right now, which is not where I want to be this close to deadline.

[MacavityLock]

Deadline will occur whilst I sleep.

Vote: DDD

[MacavityLock]

I went on V/LA during night, which farside did not post when we returned to day. Anyway, I'm back and am catching up.

[MacavityLock]

My current read is that CMAR needs to go.

However, something else to examine first. Parama, please explain your power exactly. Thus far, you've said that you can identify the Prince and Princess with an investigation, and that you have confirmed that horror is the Princess. Is that it? Are you just a ridiculously limited rolecop?

[MacavityLock]

And you know nothing about alignments or powers that the Prince or Princess may have/have had?

[MacavityLock]

horror, are you required to hide every night? Also, other than your name which you can't say, have you full claimed? I want nothing more than a yes or no.

[MacavityLock]

I don't think we need it. I have a theory, but I need the answers to those questions to horror first.

[MacavityLock]

Damn, theory broken. Time to do some digging for DDD connections.

Wait, do we have iso back? Yays!

[MacavityLock]

Parama doesn't read as DDD's scumbuddy to me. CMAR definitely does. VOTE: CMAR. This is mostly based on a close skim, so deeper digging is required, but I want to plant a flag in a CMAR wagon for now.

[MacavityLock]

Not worth mentioning, trust me, and may be anti-town to do so. I will discuss post-game if still curious.

[MacavityLock]

People, the following post does not come from scum buddied with DDD.

WHOOPS DEADLINE PASSED AND I'M NOT CHANGING MY VOTE ANYWAYS. NOT THAT I NEED TO. I BET WE JUST LYNCHED THE MOST POWERFUL TOWN ROLE ON ACCIDENT OR SOMETHING. OR WE LYNCHED SCUM AND MY ML/EKIM THEORY IS WRONG. IF DDD FLIPS SCUM EKIM IS STILL SCUM THOUGH.

Okay, done with the caps for now.

The following is the

only

mention of DDD in WNH and CMAR combined play.

Page 4

...
DDD and Jack argument-I think Jack is just trying to be funny, but DDD has a good point +little town points

We lynch CMAR today.

[MacavityLock]

Parama, does your role info tell you that horror is town, or just that he is the Princess? Why haven't you made this clear yet?

People, the following post does not come from scum buddied with DDD.

WHOOPS DEADLINE PASSED AND I'M NOT CHANGING MY VOTE ANYWAYS. NOT THAT I NEED TO. I BET WE JUST LYNCHED THE MOST POWERFUL TOWN ROLE ON ACCIDENT OR SOMETHING. OR WE LYNCHED SCUM AND MY ML/EKIM THEORY IS WRONG. IF DDD FLIPS SCUM EKIM IS STILL SCUM THOUGH.

Okay, done with the caps for now.

Why do you say that?

I've found that Twilight is one of the best times to get a real read on somebody. I can't for the life of me see what benefit there is for Parama-scum to post the above in Twilight when he knows that his buddy DDD is getting lynched. It's a "Guys, I think we made a huge mistake" post. Had DDD flipped town, this would be a huge signpost that Parama was scum. But here, the opposite is true. Parama is also conceding that if DDD is scum, he's wrong about other stuff. Again, I can't see scum doing this.

Join the CMAR wagon. It's the place to be.

[MacavityLock]

I don't see him doing that. I could be wrong, but I just don't see it.

[MacavityLock]

Can someone link please? I couldn't find it.

Actually, links to any of the games would be helpful.

[MacavityLock]

Jack and Parama should vote for CMAR so that we don't have to wait until deadline to end the day.

[MacavityLock]

I believe it is mass claim time. Here's how we're going to do this:

• SPS repeats his claim and claims any and all results.
  
• horror repeats his claim and claims any and all people he's hid with.
  
• Parama repeats his claim and claims any and all results.
  
• Jack full claims.
  
• ekiM full claims.
  
• I repeat my claim and finally reveal my name.

Any objections? Parama, I request an unvote until at least the mass-claim process is over.

[MacavityLock]

Why did you target ekiM last night?

[MacavityLock]

Shit answer.

horror, you're up.

[MacavityLock]

horror, very often Hiders die if they hide with scum. Is this true with your role?

[MacavityLock]

Jack, you're up.

[MacavityLock]

As I stated in my first non-confirmation post, I am a Miller. I am the Dread Pirate Roberts.

I need a little time to consider the mass claim results.

[MacavityLock]

OK, given that Kmd was poisoned, the remaining killer is almost certainly either Vizzini or Westley, probably Vizzini. (Vizzini uses poisons, Westley built up an immunity to them, so would probably have access to them.) Note that all other night kills have been just plain "killed". I'm wondering whether "poisoning" is a special role, and I've had this suspicion since Day 2. Let me present the following. (Yay, we have post numbers back!)

Dear Town,

After we lynch ekiM, and the scum kill me tonight, I have a final request. My wish is that you guys lynch Steam-Powered Shovel tomorrow.

Don't mourn the loss of me as I've grown ill and would be likely to pass soon anyway. Due to this illness, I've become very aware of the strong value of human life, including lives of those who have made bad choices.

However, I must make an exception in Steam's case. The reason for this is that Steam, along with his partner in crime, ekiM, is guilty of conspiracy for murder and a takeover of our wonderful town. I believe in justice and will gladly give my own life for what is right. Do not let these murderer scumbags get away with this wrong doing. Be strong and do what is right after my death. I will be here for the remainder of the day to see to it that ekiM sees the gallows by nightfall.

Yours Truly,

Kmd.

So there's that. First question: Has anyone been told that they have been poisoned?

Secondly, if Poisoner is a role, the last remaining role, wouldn't that conflict with the roleblocking that SPS has been claiming?

Of course, pulling back on that is the fact that a Miller without a Cop is a wasted role. Now, I just won a game as scum taking advantage of a setup with a Miller but no Cop.

Given even numbers, at some point we should be doing No Lynch, but I don't know if that's today or tomorrow.

----

As for my claim, I have no flavor whatsoever, so I don't know why the Dread Pirate Roberts would be a Miller.

[MacavityLock]

Looking back at the DDD lynch, Mac voted DDD at 4:00 am eastern, with deadline being at 7:30 am pst. It's rare for people to vote in the morning.

I live in CA. I voted at 1 AM before I went to sleep, knowing that I would almost certainly not wake up before the deadline to make a vote.

Look at my play, basically jump-starting the DDD lynch, and completely leading the CMAR lynch.

----

Just wondering, Macavity, what was your theory on me?

Not worth mentioning, trust me, and may be anti-town to do so. I will discuss post-game if still curious.

What was this theory?

My theory was that horror was actually a Beloved Princess, which is a role that upon dying gives the scum two consecutive night phases. If this were true, I thought it was highly likely that Parama's limited role cop was an obv-scum role. I didn't want horror to directly claim "Beloved", which is why I asked for yes or no only. When he said that he had in fact full-claimed, my theory was no longer viable.

[MacavityLock]

I think DDD is guilty for role related reasons. Lynch him please.

Jack, this was a lie. Explain.

[MacavityLock]

I think DDD is guilty for role related reasons. Lynch him please.

Jack, this was a lie. Explain.

Thanks. Now you're confirmed scum.

... Why?

[MacavityLock]

I didn't lie, but I'm more interested in Parama and SPS at the moment, explain why later.

Another lie, and by the way, you never explained.

Parama, why is Jack obv-town? The more I'm doing this iso, the more I think it's him.

[MacavityLock]

Final Day 1 Vote Count:

vote count:

bv310 (1) wolframnhart
Parama (2), Steam Powered Shovel, ekiM
SensFan (7) bv310, curiouskarmadog, animorpherv1, Jack, Parama, Kmd439, SensFan
Shovel (1) MacavityLock

Not voting:

Debonair Danny DiPietro

Deadline is May 26th, 2:10pm PST
With 12 alive it will take 7 to lynch

That is a lynch. Story will be up in a few moments.

Does the Sens lynch happen without scum on it? Neither DDD nor wnh (CMAR) were on that lynch. So unless that's a pure townie lynch,

of the SK

, we're looking at

bv

horror, Jack, or Parama.

[MacavityLock]

Remember that the sens wagon was a fast d1 wagon that ended when he hammered himself not by any natural conclusion. DDD also revealed himself as scum by dancing on the edge of it and wolf is a lurker. All in all this is a terrible argument.

A fast D1 wagon makes it all the more likely that there was scum on it.

[MacavityLock]

Also, that argument fails at probability. When we already know that 2 scum weren't on the wagon, it becomes way more likely that the third wasn't. And DDD's posts show that scum were wary of the wagon.

BS alert. Scum don't act as a group, especially on Day 1. Why wouldn't scum want to go for the mislynch (from their perspective)?

Time to put my money where my mouth is. VOTE: Jack

[MacavityLock]

Here was the vote count:

SensFan (5) bv310, curiouskarmadog, animorpherv1, Jack, SensFan

It went up very quick, some of these are random votes. Now, is scum going to want to be 6th and 7th on a lynch with a self voter and no backing to it? No. In fact, you said:

Towniest self-vote I ever saw.

So you clearly had a reason to avoid the wagon. And we already know that DDD and wolf did.

There was probably scum that jumped on the wagon early, which is likely why DDD and wnh avoided it. That's my point. It makes bv/horror and you look worse, Parama better.

Back to Mac's "Poisoner" case. A poisoner targets someone at night, and they die the next night. If kmd was poisoned night 1, he would have died n2. And why would the target be informed that they had been poisoned? Makes no sense. So this argument just seems designed to lynch SPS. And if the scum poisoner was an extra role like a roleblock then the scum would have two kills.

When Kmd made that post Day 2, my thoughts went to poisoner. When he didn't die Night 2, I moved on. Seeing it now brought the thought back up again. Who says that a Poisoner must kill the following night? It's likely, but is it 100%?

It's very possible that we have 2 deaths the night we do a no lynch.

Uh, what? How would this be possible?

Consideration of mass-claim results gave me the following: ekiM claimed Grandson. Looking back, he specifically had no issue with the Grandfather name-claim. This is a thumbs-up for ekiM. Other than that, there was no real new info, so I went back on the other track I was considering, having to do with the poison.

You've entirely avoided explaining why you lied, and then lied about lying.

[MacavityLock]

There was probably scum that jumped on the wagon early, which is likely why DDD and wnh avoided it. That's my point. It makes bv/horror and you look worse, Parama better.

What are you babbling about? I look scummy for forcing DDD into the fence sitting position? Scum avoided the wagon because there was already scum on it, what are you talking about? The avoided the wagon because it was really fast and had a self vote and a random vote, tell me why you as scum would put a 6th vote on that wagon.

I wouldn't, but that's not what I'm talking about here. bv was the 1st vote and you were the 4th. Neither of those are particularly scary votes to be as scum.

When Kmd made that post Day 2, my thoughts went to poisoner. When he didn't die Night 2, I moved on. Seeing it now brought the thought back up again. Who says that a Poisoner must kill the following night? It's likely, but is it 100%?

No, it's 99.9%. So lets lynch SPS because there is a .1% chance that there isn't a scum roleblocker because we have a crazy scum poisoner role?

Did I say we should lynch SPS because of it?

It's very possible that we have 2 deaths the night we do a no lynch.

Uh, what? How would this be possible?

Scum kill the person the hider is hiding behind, they both die. If the hider is silly about it. Which they could very easily be.

More BS. I think we can figure out a way to tell the Hider to not hide if we do No Lynch.

You've entirely avoided explaining why you lied, and then lied about lying.

Never lied and you look terrible trying to push this. My role is townie and involves reading the thread. The information on DDD came from reading the thread. Thus it is role related information.

Are you kidding me? That's your excuse?

[MacavityLock]

Sorry, the 4th weekend pretty well screwed me up. Not much to catch up on though.

@mod,

I am currently voting Jack.

Some games have scum who can multi-action, while some don't. The reason the Poisoner jumped out as a special ability is that "killed" is not really a kill method, while "poisoned" definitely is. A lot of it comes down to out-guessing the mod, though.

My point about the Day 1 wagon is that there was really no incentive for the scum to be off of that wagon. I don't see why scum wouldn't have wanted to get on that wagon early. I think it's likely that one did.

[MacavityLock]

Is there any way I can convince you Shovel voters to switch to Jack?

[MacavityLock]

Honestly, I did think that there was a chance that you were scum, Jack. I didn't like your faked role info stuff at all, and the fact that it did "point" to a scum made it all the more worrisome. It's why I asked you as unclaimed to go before ekiM. I'm not really sure what accusations you made that I

could

have answered. I mean, in a lot of ways, you were right, I wasn't super-pro-town in the way I dealt with your "role info" on DDD. My votes/attacks on DDD and CMAR could have been viewed as bussing. In addition, the summer has been busy for me, so I haven't been around a ton. Anyway, sorry Jack, looks like a playstyle dispute.

Still, we won! Yay! Apparently, my maf-dar was

on

this game (until the end), but my SK-dar was... um... not.

farside, I'm a little confused about bv/horror's Princess role. It died if it hid with the Prince, but did it die if it hid with maf? Your mod notes indicate that it died if it hid with me too, which doesn't seem to make sense if it only died when hiding with the SK.