Mini 971: Princess bride - They all lived .......

[Kmd4390]

Vote ekiM

Serious vote. I think he's scum.

[Kmd4390]

/ignore miller claim.

FoS Mac

for claiming to vote "semi" randomly. I think he's scum, but ekiM is scummier.

[Kmd4390]

You've never heard of a semi-random vote?

They normally come from scum who don't want to commit to their vote, so they call it "semi-random" or "a half-joke" or something like that.

FOS: DDD

I found all the scum. Sens, DDD and Parama.

Wrong. It's ekiM, Mac, and Animorph.

I need to scumhunt, brb.

Oh shit, maybe Animorph was right.

Why not scumhunt on first read?

[Kmd4390]

What is scummy about Jack's play?

[Kmd4390]

Still not seeing JackScum.

[Kmd4390]

I think I know why kmd doesn't see Jackscum for me pushing the sens lynch

Call it meta.

[Kmd4390]

KMD: see my sig

I see it. The way I see a player due to past games isn't something I can ignore just because someone tells me to.

[Kmd4390]

Okay sure, I'm still not listening to meta arguments regardless of how many you use.

Ok, I'll bullshit a textbook cookie cutter case on anyone who I want lynched based on meta if I want your vote.

[Kmd4390]

Mac, why is Shovel scummy? If there's reasoning, no matter how weak, it's not "semi-random", it's a "weak serious vote".

[Kmd4390]

I don't see how that is distracting.

ekiM, however, is legitimately scummy trying to stay in the background by jumping the main wagon and contributing to the popular joke.

[Kmd4390]

Kmd, I'm have no problem with your current ekiM read.

Do you see ekiM as scum? Why is Shovel scummier?

I'm inclined to believe him.

people like you make me want to fakeclaim miller one game...

I don't agree with Sensfan's vote on ML, but I don't see why it's scummy. Some people do like to lynch millers D1. This is where meta would be useful, to know how Sens has reacted to miller claims before.

No idea if Jack is serious about wanting a quicklynch. Actually, no idea what Jack is doing at all. That's his MO. Not going to quicklynch someone on someone else just asking, though.

These stances seem to give you an out either way. Basically you are saying Sens is wrong, not necessarily scum, but meta could help get that read. And pretty much IIOA on Jack. Oh, he's doing something. Not sure what. Not gonna say he's town or scum.

The only real read you give is on Parama, and it's pretty much crap. He random voted the wrong way then commented a few times on something that he feels strongly enough about that it is in his sig? That's why he's scum? You can do better than this.

----------------------

Hmm. New theory. Mac is town, Steam is scum. Too bad the game that makes me think this is ongoing.

----------------------

Will people stop talking about the miller claim? There's no "he's town because of the claim" or "he's scum because of the claim". It is right to claim because now he doesn't waste a potential cop's investigation and he doesn't look bad claiming miller after a guilty result, but our read on him needs to come from his play, not his miller claim.

---------------------

In other news, Sens might be scum. Meta.

--------------------

So the scum team is ekiM, Shovel, and Sens.

[Kmd4390]

Wait why the hell didn't I

unvote, vote: ekiM

in my previous post?
*derp*

For what, specifically?

[Kmd4390]

Unvote, Vote Sens

Other scum are Shovel and ekiM.

[Kmd4390]

Bv, you replaced Saber in that game, who was banned for not even trying in his games.

Sens did quit the same game though. Hewitt replaced him.

Sens was never banned recently.

[Kmd4390]

How is putting the third vote on someone right at the start of the game trying to stay in the background?

How is it NOT staying in the background. You just do what is popular and roll with it.

Those were the major things going on, those were the conclusions I drew from them. I wasn't going to pretend to get more out of them than I did.

Conclusions?!? Sorry, but "maybe town but maybe scum, we'll see" isn't a conclusion.

The first complaint that you had about me was that I random voted in a way you didn't like! My random vote might've helped move the game forwards, whereas Parama adopting a purely reactive stance early on seems like an attempt to hide in the foreground to me. Not super-strong, but enough to attract my suspicion, especially when he continues to post a bunch while saying almost nothing.

Ok, don't even try to pretend that my issue with you was "they way you random voted". It was the content of the post and how it went right with what everyone else was doing.

Now you are shifting the argument to say that your post "moved the game forward" and that because Parama didn't do that, I have to suspect him. No.

A "reactive stance" isn't scummy or contrived. It's a natural reaction that most people have. Something comes up that triggers a reaction and, well, there's bound to be that reaction.

In other news, Sens might be scum. Meta.

You can explain that now.

Why? He's already dead and flipped non-town and because he was self-aligned, there's no way I knew that beforehand, so there is no purpose in going further with this. I was right, score one for me. That's all there is to it.

Parama, would you nightkill ani as scum?

Only a vig would kill Animorph, I'd think.

Or scum trying to set up Parama.

Hmm.

I like the little content I’ve seen from KMD as well, but I’m naturally more suspicious of him because he’s capable of deluding himself into thinking other people are scum even when he’s scum himself.

Heh, yeah, you saw me do this perfectly with Percy in that Lovers game.

I will "stay in RVS" as long as I need to.

Um, it's Day 2.

Question for you. Why did the scum kill fail last night? Inactivity by scum? Animorph protected the right person? Something else?

Vote ekiM

-----------------------

Dear Town,

After we lynch ekiM, and the scum kill me tonight, I have a final request. My wish is that you guys lynch Steam-Powered Shovel tomorrow. Don't mourn the loss of me as I've grown ill and would be likely to pass soon anyway. Due to this illness, I've become very aware of the strong value of human life, including lives of those who have made bad choices. However, I must make an exception in Steam's case. The reason for this is that Steam, along with his partner in crime, ekiM, is guilty of conspiracy for murder and a takeover of our wonderful town. I believe in justice and will gladly give my own life for what is right. Do not let these murderer scumbags get away with this wrong doing. Be strong and do what is right after my death. I will be here for the remainder of the day to see to it that ekiM sees the gallows by nightfall.

Yours Truly,

Kmd.

P.S MacavityLock, I want you to have my $10,000 watch.

[Kmd4390]

Or scum who didn't feel like playing with ani and who didn't have a better kill.

Doubtful.

Um, it's page 8. Now if we had a lynch we could properly analyse, it would be a different story, but as far as I'm concerned it being Day 2 is a technicality.

Yes, it's Page 8. Exactly my point. There's been plenty non-RVS.

SK lynch is perfect to analyze. A player who legitimately was non-town was lynched. Perfect person for scum to jump on. I guarantee that at least one scum was on board with the Sens lynch.

[Kmd4390]

vote count:

bv310 (1) wolframnhart
Parama (2), Steam Powered Shovel, ekiM

SensFan

(7) bv310, curiouskarmadog,

animorpherv1

, Jack, Parama, Kmd439,

SensFan

Shovel (1) MacavityLock

Not voting:

Debonair Danny DiPietro

First and last vote generally are less often the scum on a lynch. Also, I know myself to be town. I'm looking at bv, CKD, Jack, and Parama for at least one scum. Which is interesting because I have town reads on all of those players.

[Kmd4390]

^BV's liklihood is lower than CKD, Jack, and Parama. Just realized I wasn't very clear in that.

[Kmd4390]

Oh, and Parama having votes from my two biggest suspects means that if I trust my reads, Parama becomes more likely town, leaving Jack and CKD.

[Kmd4390]

I guarantee that at least one scum was on board with the Sens lynch.

Yeah, Sens. (Seriously though, at least one scum among a group of 5 people? Big deal.)

No, there's more to it than "here's 5 people and there's a scum". CKD or Jack is more than likely scum.

If you and ekiM are town, Parama can be added to that list.

If I'm still wrong, Bv is guaranteed scum and I'd be more than willing to place an avatar bet at that point.

The essential problem with analysing the Senslynch is that it was just a silly RVS wagon right up to the point that Sens self-hammered.

OH REALLY.

Bv, while his vote was part of the RVS, was around PLENTY if he had wanted to change his vote. Never did.

CKD, I believe voted out of policy with intent to lynch, if not immiediately, at least it turned into that.

Animorph cited policy then called Sens scum at least 3 more times. I highly doubt he was joking around with his posts.

Jack appeared to be reaction fishing initially, but after that, it became clear he was SERIOUSBIZNESS about a Sens lynch.

Parama just kind of hopped on. Not in an RVS way, but in a bandwagon-near-lynch kind of way. This actually has me rethinking my stances on Parama, Steam, and ekiM.

Then I changed my vote, not because ekiM had gotten any townier, but because my meta on Sens was telling me SCUMSCUMSCUMSCUM and he was close to a lynch.

Then his self-hammer.

Clearly not an RVS wagon.

[Kmd4390]

Unvote, Vote Parama

I trust VC Analysis TM over my reads.

DDD is Parama's scumbuddy.

[Kmd4390]

You were fine with L-1 as well, hypocrite.

Pretty sure Jack never went against the Sens lynch originally.

That was my exact position and still is, L-1 useful for reads, so quickly dead (with a self-hammer) means there's not much to go on, contrary to KMD's attempts to find something in it.

Guys, DDD is right. We should be sitting around with our thumbs up our asses so scum can control the game for us.

[Kmd4390]

Screw it, Parama can wait a day.

Unvote, Vote DDD

[Kmd4390]

KMD, I'm not sure how strong you think "people in the middle of the lynch wagon are more likely scum" is? Does it apply the same if the wagon is on a SK?

Yes.

Anyone who is non-mafia.

The idea is that the scum jump on a lynch that isn't one of their own. Not necessarily middle of the wagon, but more than likely not the first vote. I can see an exception in this case though because bv placed his joke as an RVS joke and then avoided doing anything else. Parama seems to be the most implicated by the VC Analysis TM though.

[Kmd4390]

It's incriminating me because of things I didn't do myself. The obvious issue there should be obvious, obviously.

How am i incriminating you? I found SPS position on you interesting? first he was about your wagon, then returns with "no particular reason to bandwagon you"...which I disagree with (if anything my opinion is "incriminating" you, but not my pressing of someone to take a stance on you) then he come out with he doesnt think you are innocent...it is quite interesting...it is called scum hunting. I wanted a firm stance on you from SPS, not this flippy floppy shit.

Yeah, this looks bad on Parama. Reacting poorly to something not even about him.

why wait a day?

Doesn't matter to me. Parama and DDD are probably both scum.

[Kmd4390]

Um, why should a name claim clear Parama?

[Kmd4390]

Why isn't Parama dead yet?

Unvote, Vote Parama

[Kmd4390]

there is no real reason to lynch anyone Day 1.

I hope you're just trolling with this comment...

[Kmd4390]

Willing to hammer after a claim.

DDD's last ditch distancing from Parama is kind of amusing.

[Kmd4390]

Yeah I'm bussing <3

When someone claims role-related results on your scumbuddy, bussing is usually necessary. You didn't so much as mention DDD before that. (Except quoting his name when Animorph, who is now dead, said that you and him were scum and you answered by saying you weren't scum.)

[Kmd4390]

"Role-related information" is a clever way of saying "I really think so-and-so is scum and I want you guys to lynch him."

Doubt it. If he's wrong, he knows his life is on the line.

unvote

Be back in a minute.

Waiting...

Parama - I would also be interested in knowing why you nameclaimed... Although I'm tempted to believe it, mainly because Westley is one of the roles that is pretty much guaranteed to be in the game, so fakeclaiming it would be rather dumb, imo.

Still says nothing about his alignment. Especially with Farside as Mod.

[Kmd4390]

Guys, Parama is clearly the best lynch today.

[Kmd4390]

Unvote, Vote Shovel

[Kmd4390]

Parama, any reason for that?

[Kmd4390]

Unvote, Vote Horror

although I'd prefer Parama.

[Kmd4390]

Also, if we assume Shovel to be telling the truth and look back at my original VCA TM, Jack's odds of being scum increase.

[Kmd4390]

I dont believe the claim....grandfather wasnt even a character in the story, he was the narrator, doesnt makes sense (but that is just flavor crap), it is an easy claim, because no one would be that character (because it is not a character)

we need to lynch SPS today.

SPS, please provide said crumb.

Um.

You've been around long enough to know we don't lynch a claimed cop in a game with a claimed miller implying a real cop unless we see a counterclaim, a cop flip, or find out the claimed miller is scum.

----------------

Shovel, no, scum don't always have safeclaims. Depends on the Mod. In Farside's case, there generally aren't safeclaims, but the scum do tend to be roles that you wouldn't expect flavor wise.

And yes, Horror, it's WIFOM. Deal with it.

I'm CES

Oh shit. This changes things. And kind of explains why my newbscumtell I thought I saw earlier seems to have been wrong based on my VCA TM.

[Kmd4390]

Parama, on your ISO read of me:

I gave my reasons on ekiM. Just not in the same post I voted him. I also said exactly why my vote was on him and not Mac. ekiM seemed scummier.

Just because you think meta is weak doesn't mean I do. You don't have to agree with me.

I answered exactly why I switched to you. VCA TM. Which I trust more than my own reads. Also, my tell on Shovel was a newbscumtell, so him not being a newb changes that completely.

On the DDD vote being random (huh?), no. I don't random vote. I switched because I believed you both to be scum at the time, so lynching him was just as good.

Um. My VCA TM is probably the best scumhunting I've done in most of the games I've played, so to say the fact that I used it means I'm not scumhunting is nothing but BS.

On ekiM, yes, his play reads scummy to me. But I tend to always read him as scum and VCA TM seems to point to him being town.

On my Shovel vote, no, I wasn't trying to just draw a claim. I was trying to get a decent lynch. I had been debating because VCA TM showed him as town, but my early tell on him seemed pretty strong. Nobody was interested in lynching you though and I second guessed myself on DDD, so I was fine lynching Shovel til he claimed.

Also, I think it's kinda funny how these ISO's seem to lead you to scum reads on basically everybody who you did them on. (edit: I see you did a more clear list after you posted these. Still, 5 suspects is a lot, but you listed them a little better there).

----------------------

CMAR:

Yeah, I saw ekiM as scummy, so that is what I pushed. That a problem for you?

I gave my reasons later on ekiM.

Wait, how was my ekiM vote similar to Parama's Jack vote? Serious question cuz I don't see it.

I gave my reason for my Sens vote. I have a meta tell on him that is probably a bigger meta tell than anything I have on any other player in all of mafia. I saw that, so I voted him. I said a few posts before the vote that I was starting to see that tell.

Also, what Parama said. You seem to be buddying to him in that post up until you FoS him.

---------------------

On Horror's claim....hmm.

Questions. If you hide behind scum, do you die? Who did you hide behind last night?

The Can't-claim-name-modkill thing is something I rarely believe when I see a claim.

----------------

CMAR, post 424:

"Ends RVS"- For me, RVS never starts. I look for whatever I can find early and blow it up so I have reactions to guage.

Yeah, I didn't see Jack as scum. I saw his posts as reaction-fishing which is generally a protown action and fits as something Jack would do as town based on what I've seen from him in other games.

You are misrepping by saying I couldn't come up with a reason. I just hadn't shared the reason. Was kind of hoping someone would ask so I could make a bigger deal out of it. And like I said above, I don't see where the contradiction thing is coming from.

When I voted Sens, I did NOT drop suspicion of ekiM at all. Hell, I called him scum in the very post you quoted to try saying I dropped it.

-----------------

Wait. The name claim Parama did for no reason was....Westley???

Um.

From Horror's claim:
"I am Westley's Lover, the person that Sensfan tried to marry"

That..um.. Sens tried to marry?

Yet you are the lover of....

the character name who Parama claimed?

Am I missing something here or does this mean Horror is scum who just botched a fakeclaim?

[Kmd4390]

And what if I told you that I can confirm if Horror is telling the truth or not, if you give it a night?

If this is true, I may unvote.

[Kmd4390]

Horror's claim just looks so bad though.

[Kmd4390]

Yeah, I know nothing about it.

Just seems weird that he's claiming to be your claimed role's lover, yet Sens was trying to marry him or something.

[Kmd4390]

Hmm. Ok. Still want Horror to answer my questions before I decide if I believe him or not.

[Kmd4390]

Princess Buttercup doesn't strike me as likely scum.

Stop right here. Look who is modding. K, start over.

[Kmd4390]

CMAR, why no response to my defense?

[Kmd4390]

CMAR:

CMAR:

Yeah, I saw ekiM as scummy, so that is what I pushed. That a problem for you?

I gave my reasons later on ekiM.

Wait, how was my ekiM vote similar to Parama's Jack vote? Serious question cuz I don't see it.

I gave my reason for my Sens vote. I have a meta tell on him that is probably a bigger meta tell than anything I have on any other player in all of mafia. I saw that, so I voted him. I said a few posts before the vote that I was starting to see that tell.

Also, what Parama said. You seem to be buddying to him in that post up until you FoS him.

CMAR, post 424:

"Ends RVS"- For me, RVS never starts. I look for whatever I can find early and blow it up so I have reactions to guage.

Yeah, I didn't see Jack as scum. I saw his posts as reaction-fishing which is generally a protown action and fits as something Jack would do as town based on what I've seen from him in other games.

You are misrepping by saying I couldn't come up with a reason. I just hadn't shared the reason. Was kind of hoping someone would ask so I could make a bigger deal out of it. And like I said above, I don't see where the contradiction thing is coming from.

When I voted Sens, I did NOT drop suspicion of ekiM at all. Hell, I called him scum in the very post you quoted to try saying I dropped it.

[Kmd4390]

Back from my V/LA... Expect a post later today.

It's been almost 12 hours. Is this post coming?

[Kmd4390]

That's L-1 then?

Vote horror

[Kmd4390]

That's L-1 then?

Vote horror

There you do it again,
but rather than take your word for horror's scumminess, I'd rather read the thread and form my own opinion before dropping the hammer

Um.

This sounds like a post coming from someone who was just told to hammer? Why is that?

Seriously, do you. You wanna finish the read first, that's cool.

[Kmd4390]

Oh, that changes everything.

[Kmd4390]

CKD, how's that?

CMAR's post looked like he thought I was telling him to hammer when all I did is vote.

[Kmd4390]

Blah. I gotta get around to this game. My head isn't really in it right now and I'm kinda busy the next few days. I will get around to it though. Promise.

[Kmd4390]

Ok. Adding colors where needed:

vote count:

bv310 (1) wolframnhart
Parama (2), Steam Powered Shovel, ekiM

SensFan

(7) bv310,

curiouskarmadog

,

animorpherv1

, Jack, Parama, Kmd439,

SensFan

Shovel (1) MacavityLock
Not voting:

Debonair Danny DiPietro

First and last vote generally are less often the scum on a lynch. Also, I know myself to be town. I'm looking at bv, CKD, Jack, and Parama for at least one scum. Which is interesting because I have town reads on all of those players.

I'd bet my left testicle that Jack or Parama is scum. Not the right one. Just in case I'm wrong. But I'm not.

Now, let me get the vote count when Horror was about to be lynched and put it next to the DDD lynch.

ekiM (2) Parama, Steam Powered Shovel
Kmd (1) CryMeARiver
Jack (1) Horrordude
Horrordude (5) Jack, ekiM, Kmd4390, MacavityLock,

Debonair Danny DiPietro

Not voting:

curiouskarmadog

ekiM (2) Parama, Steam Powered Shovel
Kmd (1) CryMeARiver

DDD

(4) Jack, MacavityLock,

curiouskarmadog

, ekiM
Jack (1) Horrordude
Horrordude (2) Kmd4390,

Debonair Danny DiPietro

Jack, Mac, and ekiM switched from Horror to DDD. I doubt Jack and Mac are scum for this move. ekiM is still possible as a last ditch bus attempt.

Horror is pretty likely town IMO.

posts between the two vote counts that stand out:

I think I would rather lynch DDD

unvote, vote:DDD

This comes after Horror's "I wasn't lying, kthx" post. I HIGHLY doubt that this is DDD's scumbuddy talking. He was first to switch over to DDD.

I think I would rather
unvote
vote: ekiM

*sigh*

Next post after Jack's. Looks like DDD's scumbuddy who saw Jack's post and wanted to go in another direction. Also, left testicle and all. Jack probably isn't scum, so that leaves Parama.

No-lynch is not an option unless everyone unvotes, ML, so get voting.

Have you considered ekiM?

I could also see this as a DDD/Parama buddy if there is a third scum.

Upon reflection, when I said above that Mac probably wasn't scum with DDD, ignore that. His post is a lazy vote after people start going away from the Horror wagon and he says deadline will fall while he's asleep. Still a point in his favor that he chose DDD over ekiM though. I also think ekiM is town if Parama is scum because it looks like Parama tried to deflect to ekiM which would make no sense if DDD and ekiM were both Parama's scumbuddies.

Vote Parama

based on my left testicle.

I'm gonna read Day 3 now.

[Kmd4390]

Parama confirmed Horror's name?!? That's it? Scum Rolecop or Namecop maybe?

Ok, now I see his claim. Noted.

I know you're town Jack

How?

If I was scum with DDD, why did I jump on the wagon when it first formed without giving a real reason?
If I was scum with DDD, why wouldn't I have voted him when I posted right around deadline? Scum would love the bussing points, I'd think.

-Jack claimed results. Any good scumbuddy would bus at that point.
-You wanted to lynch ekiM instead.

-----------------------

I vote no to massclaim. Don't like CMAR's reaction to the suggestion either.

[Kmd4390]

Parama, Jack is only obvtown because of the DDD vote which I hadn't analyzed yet. And I said Day 2 that I was looking at you/Jack/CKD. CKD has already flipped town.

We aren't lynching ekiM because you brought him up as a second option to the DDD lynch and I think you are scum.

-----------------

Jack, I agree. Farside as Mod likes to make characters that you'd expect to be scum, town and the other way around. So a namecop that only searches for two names makes no sense unless Parama has more information about those two names.

[Kmd4390]

If Parama isn't the last scum, CMAR and Shovel are good choices for tomorrow.

[Kmd4390]

Parama, can you list all of the games where you have been scum please? As much as I almost never read parts of games I didn't play in, I think I need to do this.

[Kmd4390]

I skimmed your ISO in the first four games and was going to unvote. Then I did the same for Mini 968. So yeah, never mind.

[Kmd4390]

Mini 968 doesn't exist though

Um.

Did I call it the wrong name or something? There was a game in Coney Island where you were SK, lynched Day 1, but flipped town JOAT.

[Kmd4390]

How were you not playing? You are on the player list, listed as SK, and made enough posts that I skimmed your ISO and didn't see anything to indicate that you didn't play.

[Kmd4390]

Unvote, Vote CMAR

I actually think Parama is town as much as I hate to admit it.

[Kmd4390]

Wow, I forgot that Shovel had claimed.

I'm curious now why scum would (OMG I SAID "WHY SCUM WOULD", SO ITS WIFOM) kill a claimed innocent result over a cop.

[Kmd4390]

Yeah, I'd still rather lynch CMAR than Shovel.

[Kmd4390]

Because they have a roleblocker? The innocent result insures ckd won't be lynched, ckd might have had some sort of power (as he appears to have) whereas my power was already being neutralized and the roleblock throws suspicion on me. Seriously, dude, blocking the cop and killing the innocent is the standard move.

I'm just gonna nod and accept this answer for now. Anything else would become a useless distraction.

[Kmd4390]

Looks like we're gonna have to wait a couple (RL) days before we lynch CMAR then. That's ok, deadline isn't all that long of a wait.

[Kmd4390]

Parama, we aren't lynching ekiM.

[Kmd4390]

Sweet! This town was awesome.