Newbie 961 - Game Over - Town Victory

[UnLoved]

Hello everyone. I shall start the RVS, I suppose.

Vote: Viral Maze

for not confirming yet.

[UnLoved]

Um, what is a VT?

While I do love a rousing RVS, perhaps a little RQS (Random Question Stage) is in order...

1. How much experience do you have with Mafia, be it here, on another site or in RL?

2. What's your favorite role/alignment to play?

3. How do feel about policy lynches? What about lurking?

4. How do you feel about the RVS?

1. I've played 5 games, won 4/5 of them.

2. My favorite role to play is scum. But I've only been scum once in my past games.

3. I don't feel anything about policy lynches, as in most of my games, we have not needed to do that. Let's hope this game doesn't become inactive enough for us to policy lynch. Lurking can be good, or bad. It's always good to lurk a little if you haven't posted in a while. Otherwise, someone could misread posts and say something wrong.

4. Uhh, I don't see much else to do in the beginning of the game, so I'm all for RVS.

[UnLoved]

So, what shall we do now?

[UnLoved]

So, what shall we do now?

Unvote, Vote: UnLoved

for making me lose the game. I know we're kinda sorta out of the RVS, but that can't go unpunished.

Ah, I lost the game. I forgot about my location until now. ^_^

I'd like to

unvote: Me=Weird

since he has confirmed.

[UnLoved]

Sorry, by "lurking" I meant taking a few minutes to read through all the posts you have missed if you were inactive, BEFORE you just go ahead and make a post.

I don't see that I have backed off of my lurking comment.

And I'm not a big fan of randomly voting without stating an equally random reason.

Wait... UnLoved and Zajnet, are you talking about the same "THE GAME" I'm thinking about right now?

Yes

I really don't get why you're attacking UnLoved for the reason behind his random vote. It's called random for a reason. If UnLoved were to quit making me lose the game, I would unvote him, just as UnLoved unvoted Me=Weird when he confirmed. You're making a mountain out of not even a molehill.

Ah, I think we might have differing definitions of "random." In an RVS, I never completely vote randomly. I might vote someone for their username (that I can transform into some sort of joke), or for their vote on someone else.

For example, if Person X votes "Toast," I would then vote Person X because

I LOVE TOAST

. In short, I believe that logical fallacies shouldn't be taken so seriously in RVS's.

And in non-random voting situations, I don't think voting someone for being inactive is that bad of a policy lynch. But yes, not a valid reason at this time. But that wasn't really the reason I voted Me=Weird. >.>

[UnLoved]

Understandable points...

The flaw I still see in your argument is:

The "unvoting" part. WHY WHY WHY would you unvote when that reason is refuted? RVS is for a purpose, and I don't see you two fulfilling that purpose. You won't get any information from unvoting an obscure and pointless reason.

Though it might just be nature of play... which I have not taken into consideration yet.

The only purpose I see in RVS is generating healthy discussion like this.

As for the lurking thing, sorry for the misinterpretation.

Nah, I think it was my misinterpretation of lurking.

I live on the west coast of the US. That is, GMT -8.

And is waaaaay to aggressive with girls.Shame on you.

Hehe, thanks. ^_^

[UnLoved]

I

unvoted

, CSL.

[UnLoved]

So in my mafia experience, random == obscure and pointless reasons.

This is the same for me.

Unvote

Vote : Doubtful

Best lead right now.He tries to make a case out of nothing.

He deemed my vote on Me=Weird unorthodox for RVS. I'm not saying that this is a completely reasonable reason to vote for me; I'm just letting you know that Doubtful didn't state no reason for voting for me. Maybe you hadn't read his post.

About the discussion on Doubtful's aggressiveness, let's make the definition of "defensive" clear. Defending yourself is alright. Being overly defensive can be a scum-tell. There's a difference.

I'm saying this because in a mafia game I had played a long time ago, we got into a MAJOR discussion about what defensiveness meant. There were many misunderstandings, and time was wasted. I think that discussing Doubtful's aggressiveness could go in this direction, so I'm talking about defensiveness now to avoid a waste of time.

also,now a more useful question.What time-zone are you in ?

Hm, how is this useful? Maybe you want to know where we live?

Quote tags fixed

[UnLoved]

EBWOP: Thanks, mod!

[UnLoved]

i will be sort of busy for the next few days so i'd apreciate if i were replaced

It's only a few days. Do you really need to be replaced?

[UnLoved]

Hm. So is lurking a scum-tell? Or is it a reason for a policy lynch?

[UnLoved]

Yes, I believe me making people lose the game is a "valid" RVS reason. Also, you just lost. But don't worry about it, STM. I don't think it's that important to know about the game.

[UnLoved]

I'm going to see if there's any way that Zajnet could not be scum.

Putting him at L-1 without any sort of good reasoning 4 pages into the game? Then switching your vote 2 posts later to a lurker after someone calls you out on it? You getting nervous there, scum?

Good point. Pretty jumpy there.

Here he attacks Doubtful for not understanding the RVS. To me, Doubtful's confusion just came off as newbish, a null tell. You jumping down his neck for it is an obvious example of taking advantage of an easy target.

Yes, Zajnet overreacted towards Doubtful, in my opinion.

I won't be able to make a large post for awhile, real life events are keeping me busy this week, however AurorusVox has dispelled most of my concerns on shadow2222.

So that I can continue to be productive to the town, I'm going to go ahead and

Unvote

and

Vote:StillAwesome

for lurking.

KEEP IN MIND, THIS IS L-2, ONE MORE VOTE PUTS HIM IN RISK OF BEING SPEEDLYNCHED - Act cautiously

This post sounds really off to me. Off enough to

Vote: Skunkape

. Stating that you're voting a lurker so you can continue to be productive to the town sounds really, really scummy to me. The over dramatization in the last line really makes me think you're scum. If anyone were to speed lynch him and he flipped scum, cool. If he was speedlynched and flipped town, the people that were those last 1 or 2 votes would have some explaining to do. This post reeks of scum trying to distance himself from a wagon on someone he knows to be a townie.

Unvote, Vote: shadow2222

He's posted no content whatsoever. At all.

Yes, you have a point, Zajnet, but you vote someone else for the same reason right after attacking Skunkape. And why blatantly accuse Skunk, and then vote someone else? Just doesn't make any sense at all to me.

Vote: Zajnet

I think you've got some 'splaining to do.

[UnLoved]

UnLoved, he voted Shadow before voting Skunkape - those quotes are out of order (Karma did this to make a point about his contradiction).

Oh man, I didn't realize that.

[UnLoved]

About the misreps of Zajnet's quotes:

I think the quotes are misreps in one way, but still supply evidence against Zajnet.

I had thought Zajnet voted shadow right after attacking Skunkape. However, the quotes DO show that he had voted someone for not posting any content and also attacked someone for voting a lurker. And I'd say lurking and not posting any content is the same thing.

About Zajnet's L-2/L-1/whatever:

In another mafia game (that ended, don't worry ) I had been lynched because I had "hammered" someone and put someone at L-2, right after a person showed evidence that the person I had "hammered" was town (I didn't read that person's post, I was too tired). In truth, I had done this completely by accident, but I also happened to be scum. It could be a subconscious thing, though. Just a little something to think about.

[UnLoved]

Zaj is scum. Why make pointless banter over who his scumbuddy is?

So we can find the other scum person?

[UnLoved]

Karma, startransmission, Unloved, Me=Weird, AurorusVox

This is the list of people who voted Zajnet. Could this list help us, perhaps?

[UnLoved]

Amm... just a note: UnLoved didn't provide any new information about Zajnet at all: The first two points were covered by other people, and I think Zajnet's voting of shadow and then Skunk makes "sense" - it isn't strategical, but a move both scum and town can do. He voted shadow while most of us were voting lurkers. (Skunkape on StillAwesome (passive lurking), and then startransmission on Me=Weird (basically active lurking at that point in time)) He didn't overreact towards me, and though I don't quite believe his putting me at L-1 he miscalculated, he had good reason behind it (the same reason I voted UnLoved in the beginning, for more pressure) I agree, his actions do seem scummy (the L-2 / L-1 mistake was one in particular) but there's a way Zajnet couldn't be scum.

I'm going to see if there's any way that Zajnet could not be scum.

Yes, there is a way. In any case, your introduction to your vote sounds like you're trying to look at all cases, which you should do even in normal analysis. It just doesn't sound right at all.

Huge FoS: UnLoved

And now some questions... to all:

1. Do you believe that there are any scum out of the people that voted for Zajnet?

1.1: If so, who and why?

2. What do you make of startransmission's death as IC? Who do you think would target STM? (In this case, do not worry about scummy behaviour in chat) Do you think him being cop was coincidence and luck, or did he hint towards it in his posting?

3. Draw the line between overreacting and not. (Say a post that was just borderline over-reacting, if any)

I don't see any harm in agreeing with other people's points. Also, I don't believe that the reason for other people's votes on other people can justify the reason of Zajnet's vote. Just sayin'. And I just honestly couldn't see how Zajnet was not trying to cover something up with his blatant contradiction, and his blunder of putting you at L-1. There's a possibility that all of us can be town, but that doesn't mean we all are. But yes, I'll admit, my "analysis" failed.

To your questions:

1. Can't be sure, there's always the possibility that no one was scum, but in most of my games played, there has been usually at least one scum.

1.1 I don't know. =(

2. Obviously, the mafia would want to kill him because of his helpfulness to the town (him being an IC and all). I believe that anyone could be likely to target star, but obviously, some of the people that STM thought might be scum could be looked into.

3. I'd say someone is overreacting when they start OMGUSing, personal attacks, etc. I think this goes for almost everyone. However, the line to be drawn really depends on their personality.

[UnLoved]

Welcome Poro.

My thoughts on UnLoved:
Asks what to do. Usually newbie scum who aren't quite sure what to do.

I disagree with this. I believe that any newbie can fall under the category of asking what to do.

I don't get the unvoting thing. How are we supposed to get discussion if people unvote their random-votes?

Ironically, I believe that my unvoting has caused more discussion than the rest of the random votes. For an example, just look the post I'm quoting you on. But seriously, I'm not going to stick to whoever I voted for the whole day, you know?

Lurking is where people are up to date on everything, and could make a post, but don't. Looking at posts is not lurking. It is called reading the thread. Scum clumsily trying to explain supporting lurking?

For me, lurking can just be not posting. After all, how do you know whether the person is up to date on everything if they haven't posted?

RVS is for generating discussion about you? Most people don't like that because it means people think they're scum.

I'd say discussion about anyone is beneficial. Even if the discussion is geared towards yourself, if you provide a valid defense, it may cause more people to believe that you are town.

What does the difference between defensive and overly defensive have to do with someone being aggressive? There's a word for that. It's called irrelevancy.

If someone is being overly defensive, it usually consists of them being aggressive towards whoever is accusing them. If someone is simply defending themselves, that's alright. And I don't see how this contributes to your reason of voting me. Looks like just a bunch of fluff to make others be more inclined to vote me.

Lurking isn't grounds for a policy lynch, it is a scumtell.

Ok.

After pretty much not mentioning zaj at all, he looking for a way zaj couldn't be scum.

Right after a wagon forms on zaj.

I don't see your point, really.

We need to find the other scum too, but not partnered with zaj, rather with you.

Looks like you're just blatantly calling me scum, just like how Karma was calling Zajnet scum.

You don't know? Make theories!

I'll try, I'll try.

[UnLoved]

UnLoved, who is your top suspect at the moment? Do you think that both scum are voting together? Doubtful "Huge FoS'd" you but looking at the standings of the vote, even if he voted you, you wouldn't get lynched unless one of Quoi, Porochaz or myself change our vote - who do you think is most likely to consider changing their vote?

I still have yet to see a reason as to why Karma voted me. Also, in page 9, he just listed a bunch of names of who he thought suspicious, without saying anything about them. Also, Karma, what makes Doubtful so townie? Maybe I didn't read your posts carefully enough, but I never saw your explanation on why Doubtful was townie.

Um, I don't believe that both scum are voting together, on me. That's pretty unlikely. It IS a possibility that they were voting together on Zajnet, though.

I don't think anyone of you are likely to consider changing their vote,

on me

. That's as far as I know.

[UnLoved]

V/LA until Sunday. Just to let you know.

[UnLoved]

Congrats to both of you. xD

My Internet connection was suddenly broken and wouldn't be fixed for a few days, then I got replaced =/ Oh well, town won, and I'm happy for that.