Newbie 961 - Game Over - Town Victory

[Zajnet]

startransmission

Don't want to break the pattern.

Nor do I

Vote: shadow2222

There is no bold. I can't count this vote! ~ CSL

[Zajnet]

Haha, good thing Viral Maze isn't here to vote.

xD

Although someone does need to break pattern for something to happen, so

Unvote, Vote: stillawesome

for being jumpy with no pressure on him lol

[Zajnet]

Welcome Me=Weird.

Unvote: stillawesome, Vote: skunkape

for not voting yet.

Let's try to have no more replacements this game, kthxbai.

[Zajnet]

Hey Me=Weird, do you play on salvation? I thought your name sounded familiar, and then I saw your location and that certainly sounded familiar.

[Zajnet]

lol are we seriously applying WIFOM to the randomness of the RVS? well... this will be an interesting game.

[Zajnet]

While I do love a rousing RVS, perhaps a little RQS (Random Question Stage) is in order...

1. How much experience do you have with Mafia, be it here, on another site or in RL?

2. What's your favorite role/alignment to play?

3. How do feel about policy lynches? What about lurking?

4. How do you feel about the RVS?

1. Been playing IRL for years, 4 completed games online and 3 active on another site.

2. Mafia Roleblocker. So much power

3. Policy lynches are uncomfortable but sometimes necessary. Lurking is annoying when excessive, but understandable when used sparingly.

4. Necessary evil.

[Zajnet]

So, what shall we do now?

Unvote, Vote: UnLoved

for making me lose the game. I know we're kinda sorta out of the RVS, but that can't go unpunished.

[Zajnet]

Meh, I tend to lurk a little regardless of my alignment, so I don't consider it a scum-tell.

While this could be the simple truth, something, I guess you could call it a gut instinct, makes me think that this is him trying to cover for his lurking if he is doing it for scummy reasons. Has anyone played with RealityFan and can speak to his lurking as scum and/or town?

[Zajnet]

Wait... UnLoved and Zajnet, are you talking about the same "THE GAME" I'm thinking about right now?

Yes

I really don't get why you're attacking UnLoved for the reason behind his random vote. It's called random for a reason. If UnLoved were to quit making me lose the game, I would unvote him, just as UnLoved unvoted Me=Weird when he confirmed. You're making a mountain out of not even a molehill.

[Zajnet]

Wait... UnLoved and Zajnet, are you talking about the same "THE GAME" I'm thinking about right now?

Yes

I really don't get why you're attacking UnLoved for the reason behind his random vote. It's called random for a reason.

If UnLoved were to quit making me lose the game, I would unvote him

, just as UnLoved unvoted Me=Weird when he confirmed. You're making a mountain out of not even a molehill.

I just noticed something...

If UnLoved were to quit making me lose the game, I would unvote him

Its called random for a reason. Random =/= obscure and pointless reasons.

Tiny FoS: Zajnet

And if you haven't noticed, I unvoted Zajnet when I saw that there was nothing suspicious about him, compared to others. Now I FoS because something feels wrong about Zajnet's interpretation of RVS.

Are you saying that Mafia can be unvoted by just complying with the NON-RANDOM reason stated by the supposedly RV'er? I'm looking at a Mafia win on day 3 with Zajnet's strategies... you've taken a step back and failed to participate in the RVS as well. At this rate solution = no lynch = mafia get a lynch = we lose ground and gain no info. True, RVS is supposed to be fun, but if you're voting for a bad reason, its worse than voting for no reason.

I'm sorry if you're used to rolling a D12 and voting for that person, but on the site where I've been playing mafia our random votes are for stupid, yet somewhat actual, reasons. For example, someone voted me and FoS'd someone else because we were both from Texas and therefore must be a cult. This isn't "random," and its also not serious.

So in my mafia experience, random == obscure and pointless reasons.

[Zajnet]

I'm just trying to get the discussion going. I know because I post so much there's a higher chance of me accidentally dropping a scum-tell even if I'm town.

There's also a higher chance of you accidentally dropping a scum-tell if you're scum. But discussing post counts is usually WIFOM unless you can back it up with meta-evidence, which none of us really have enough finished games to us. What I mean by that is something along the lines of:
Person A posted 20%, 15%, and 22% of the game's posts the three times he has been scum, but only 4%, 4%, 6%, 10%, and 7% the five times he has been town, all in 9p games.

also,now a more useful question.What time-zone are you in ?

US Central (GMT-6)

[Zajnet]

So in my mafia experience, random == obscure and pointless reasons.

This is the same for me.

Unvote

Vote : Doubtful

Best lead right now.He tries to make a case out of nothing.

He deemed my vote on Me=Weird unorthodox for RVS. I'm not saying that this is a completely reasonable reason to vote for me; I'm just letting you know that Doubtful didn't state no reason for voting for me. Maybe you hadn't read his post.

About the discussion on Doubtful's aggressiveness, let's make the definition of "defensive" clear. Defending yourself is alright. Being overly defensive can be a scum-tell. There's a difference.

I'm saying this because in a mafia game I had played a long time ago, we got into a MAJOR discussion about what defensiveness meant. There were many misunderstandings, and time was wasted. I think that discussing Doubtful's aggressiveness could go in this direction, so I'm talking about defensiveness now to avoid a waste of time.

also,now a more useful question.What time-zone are you in ?

Hm, how is this useful? Maybe you want to know where we live?

Quote tags fixed

This post makes me think UnLoved is town.

Doubtful idk about, he could just be town with a confused view of RVS, or he could be scum trying to make a mountain out of a molehill. I feel good with an

Unvote, Vote: Doubtful

for now. I'm also going to

FoS: shadow2222

because's been lurking in plain sight, that is, making no active contributions despite posting often enough.

[Zajnet]

@Zajnet, were you aware that you were putting Doubtful at L-1?

No, I thought I was putting him at L-2. I didn't see his response until you unvoted, so I didn't see a reason to unvote as that put him at the L-2 I thought he should be at.

[Zajnet]

Unvote, Vote: shadow2222

He's posted no content whatsoever. At all.

[Zajnet]

Ok, I'm going to do a little PBPA (Player by Player Analysis-or sometimes post by post) to get things rolling again. It'll help me get around to responding to some things, as well as to crystallize my opinions of the players and the game thus far. And hopefully inspire some discussion. I'll keep it brief, which should be easy as there is very little to go over.

RealityFan

- Only three posts, the first two were his vote for me which he did in the order of the pattern. After that he answered my questions. Hasn't posted since last Thursday, and is on V/LA now. Obviously someone that we need to hear more from.

Skunkape

- RV'd Unloved, answered my questions, a fluff post, and then a vote for Shadow2222. I like his explanation for his vote.

stillawesome

- RV'd doubtful, noted the RV order, responds to being referred to as "jumpy", uses a Dilbert cartoon to illustrate the "problem with randomness", answers my questions. He says he views lurking as a null tell, and while I see his point about it not being an indicator of honesty, I do not view lurking as a null tell. Last post was on Monday, when he said he would put up a nice juicy post. So far nothing.

Zajnet

- Initially RV's Shadow2222 as it is in order, but seems to recognize how invaluable that is to the RVS and moves his vote to stillawesome. Welcomes Me=Wierd, moves his vote to skunkape for not having had voted yet. Asks Me=Wierd a question outside of the game, and then asks if WIFOM is being applied to the RVS. WIFOM is a beast and often rears its head during RVS. I'm surprised that Zajnet wasn't expecting it. Anyways, answers my questions, moves his vote to Unloved, and implies that it is random, though there is a weak reason behind it.

Meh, I tend to lurk a little regardless of my alignment, so I don't consider it a scum-tell.

While this could be the simple truth, something, I guess you could call it a gut instinct, makes me think that this is him trying to cover for his lurking if he is doing it for scummy reasons. Has anyone played with RealityFan and can speak to his lurking as scum and/or town?

This I find interesting. I see Zajnets point here, but it feels a bit like he's reaching for straws and perhaps trying to make something out of pretty much nothing. I'd like to see a response to the from RealityFan. So, afterwards points out that he feels that Doubtful was making too much out Unloved's RV which leads to a mini discussion about RV's etc. After this he says that he feels Unloved is town, and moves his vote to Doubtful while FoS'ing Shadow2222 for not posting content. This vote puts Doubtful at L-1.

@Zajnet, were you aware that you were putting Doubtful at L-1?

Me=Wierd

Comes in as a replacement for Viral Maze. RVs Skunkape and gives some pointers regarding text. Answers a question from Zajnet, and then answers my questions. After not posting for a bit I restate my wish for him to post more. Despite not having posted for two days, within 5 minutes of my post asking for more, he responds. This sticks out to me a bit, while it could just be a coincidence...it's a sign of an active lurker. He seems disappointed at the lack of grandeur in my opening post. I feel that I explained my stance on explaining semantics and strategy in an opening post, but if there are any questions regarding that I'm happy to elaborate. Since then no other activity.

Ok, to avoid a Wall O' Text, I'll get to Doubtful and Unloved later on this evening, as well as further thoughts on Zajnet, Shadow2222, and the Doubtful wagon.

This is why I voted shadow2222 instead of startransmission.

However,

unvote

since I only voted him because of super-active-lurking, and you're obviously not doing that.

[Zajnet]

Oh lol, I was still asleep when I read your post and responded o.0

The reason I didn't vote for stillawesome is because he was simply lurking, while shadow2222 was actively lurking, that is, he was posting plenty, but providing no content. IMO active lurking is worse because we know that that person is reading the thread and has time to respond, but isn't providing content.

[Zajnet]

I won't be able to make a large post for awhile, real life events are keeping me busy this week, however AurorusVox has dispelled most of my concerns on shadow2222.

So that I can continue to be productive to the town, I'm going to go ahead and

Unvote

and

Vote:StillAwesome

for lurking.

KEEP IN MIND, THIS IS L-2, ONE MORE VOTE PUTS HIM IN RISK OF BEING SPEEDLYNCHED - Act cautiously

This post sounds really off to me. Off enough to

Vote: Skunkape

. Stating that you're voting a lurker so you can continue to be productive to the town sounds really, really scummy to me. The over dramatization in the last line really makes me think you're scum. If anyone were to speed lynch him and he flipped scum, cool. If he was speedlynched and flipped town, the people that were those last 1 or 2 votes would have some explaining to do. This post reeks of scum trying to distance himself from a wagon on someone he knows to be a townie.

[Zajnet]

Quick post from phone, no internet unexpectedly, will post soon

[Zajnet]

This is the first and only game smaller than 12 people I've ever played in, I really didn't realize I was putting him at L-1 because I'm used to 7 to lynch on D1, not 5.

Nice misrep on those quotes btw.

startransmission is starting to ping the edges of my scumdar. I'll do a more detailed PBPA when I get the chance, but he's been hopping wagons all over the place.

[Zajnet]

Ha. Nice catch on the "I thought I was putting him at L-2" / "I thought he needed 7 votes" contradiction.

Unvote

Usually people who contradict themselves (or are exposed as liars) are scum, and I would happily vote for the person who is caught out. However, I'm not ready to hammer yet (the lynch seemed to build pretty fast) but I am willing to see a Zajnet lynch when the deadline gets a few days closer.

Zajnet, at the moment, this contradiction is the biggest scumtell I have on you or anyone else. What is your response to being caught in this evident lie?

It means that I'm human. I knew I wasn't hammering him, and I miscounted votes. So sue me.

Nice misrep on those quotes btw.

You can't just say this without saying how/why they're misreps, scum.

The post above mine outlined how it was a misrep. I didn't feel the need to reiterate when everyone should be reading the thread.

[Zajnet]

Not much I can say. VT. No flavor since it's a newbie game.

[Zajnet]

By the way, the quote where he attacks Skunkape, and the posts that have since come after, show the huge discrepancy in his offence/defence style. Wouldn't VTs be posting larger, more aggressive posts to prove their innocence? Zajnet is clearly capable of such posts. Strange that they've all but disappeared.

Does anyone have anything else to add? I'll gladly hammer if not.

I haven't been posting long drawn out defensive posts because I haven't had the time. I had freshman orientation for UT Dallas and I've been working full time on top of that.

I don't really know what to say. I don't understand the full attack on me. It seems to boil down to a single contradiction and the way I attacked shadow2222 and skunkape, which I don't see a problem with. The speed of the wagon on me makes me confident that my lynch will give the town some much-needed information, because this wagon has to be driven or at least navigated by the scum.

As for the l-2 contradiction thing, I'm human. Humans make mistakes. Townies can make mistakes, as can scum, because we're all human. I'm used to different sized games, and I miscounted. If you don't believe me, then so be it.

About the attacks on shadow2222 and skunkape, I voted shadow2222 when I realized that he hadn't posted any content at all in the entire game. This isn't necessarily a scumtell, but it is anti-town. I changed my vote to skunkape when I saw what I saw to be a legitimate scumtell. To whoever said that I joined an already moving wagon, being the third person to exhibit issues with skunkape's post. However, I was the first to vote him, so

I didn't join an already moving wagon

, and

I added unique content to the attack on skunkape

.

[Zajnet]

Yay we won!

I was almost positive that Karma was scum after I got lynched. Meh.