Newbie 962 (Game Over!)

[Cove]

Vote: Robocopter87

Not up for 20 questions this game.

[Cove]

Ninja'd by GroupThink:

I fail to see the correlation between your first statement and your vote.

[Cove]

1. Where you from?

St. John's, Newfoundland, Canada. Timezone is GMT -3.5

2. Coke or Pepsi?

Vanilla Coke was my favorite all time soft drink.

3. Are you nervous?

Not in the slightest. I don't get nervous until LYLO hits. Co-incidentally, that's when my A-game takes over.

4. Whats your playstyle?And if you've never played before what would you do in a panicky situation?

I play a logical game and I'm not afraid to take risks. I love high-risk, high-reward play. I can't think of a situation I'd be in this game where I'd need to panic, I stopped panicking when I stopped being a complete newb.

5. Are you excited to play?

Of course I am. I'm always excited to see red text show up in the role of a lynched player.

6/7. Lynch all lurkers/liars?

Active lurking is one of my favorite D1 newbie game tells to use. With the lying, it completely depends, as some of the best high-risk high-reward plays involve some lying. One thing though, is that if you are a vanilla townie and claim a PR, this is NOT COOL and is highly lynchable.

Now that that's over, GroupThink's vote is precarious and he needs to respond to my statement about its correlation to his first statement.

Unvote

Vote: GroupThink

[Cove]

Kleedrac: If the game goes well, and there aren't that many lurkers, we should be able to make a decision well before the 3 week mark.

Placing hammers is not a scum tell in and of itself, and can be a town tell. It depends on the situation, so people shouldn't be afraid to hammer before deadline. One thing that I ask is that we don't hammer people before they are given a chance to claim. Also people should NOT CLAIM until they are at L-1 (lynch minus one, or one vote away from being hammered) AND someone has expressed an interest in hammering and asks for the claim.

Hammering without asking for a claim is very poor style and can be very scummy.

[Cove]

Paging GroupThink to the thread. I repeat, GroupThink to Aisle 962.

[Cove]

Overreacting already?

You're the one overreacting, hate to tell you.

Also, if I was trying to stifle town discussion, why have I answered the questions while you haven't?

[Cove]

Robo: My games are in my wiki. If you want examples of things I've mentioned in my question I can point you to direct posts.

I don't like AQUA's responses to the questions. Seems very reserved, not exactly pinning herself down to anything concrete.

FOS: AQUA

[Cove]

AKR: I'm puzzled as to how a townie's mindset would settle on bussing this early on Day 1.

FOS

GroupThink: Your first post was highly reactionary and stand-offish. I'm not the only person to notice this either. Now, as AKR has said, you're tunneling and withholding information. Down-right ignoring AKR.

Confirm Vote: GroupThink

[Cove]

There are multiple reasons to vote someone, with varying degrees of certainty about their guilt. Confirming my vote is just a way of saying that I like it, and that I thin GroupThink is more likely to be scum than the time I voted him.

[Cove]

Also, the FOS is because I can't tell for the life of me how a townie would even theorize on bussing from what has gone on. Considering I can't see a townie motivation, it's possible there is scum motivation.

[Cove]

Well I have active FOSes on AKR and AQUA. More likely AQUA than AKR due to the fact that AKR has been on GroupThink from the get-go. AKR is also right that there's not much to go on yet since nothing significant has really happened outside of GroupThink wilding out.

[Cove]

I'm used to a more high paced game, see:

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13668

There was a vote, and cases being made, before confirms were over. I'm trying to increase the pace of this game, desperately.

I have as good a case as one can have on anybody in 3 pages. He reacted poorly to the first vote on him, digs a bit too deeply to find things that I've done that aren't scumtells and tries to pass them off as such, is very terse as to not get pinned down to anything, and blatantly ignored AKR's question for him.

I'm convinced he has no interest in helping town to a win.

I don't like AQUA's answers to your questions. They are very short, and just jokes through them "meaty" questions (nervous scum tell). Enough that you had to ask for more clarification. Also as good as any case that can be made on page 3.

We should be sparking arguments and debates, not sitting back and sipping tea and eating scones.

[Cove]

To drop the hammer is to place the final vote on someone (that makes it >50% majority) meaning that person becomes offically lynched.

Bussing is attacking your scum partner, generally with the intention of lynching them to gain town credit.

FOS is a finger of suspicion, it's a concise way of signifying who you are suspicious of, but not enough to vote them at the time, generally because you have a target you feel more strongly about.

Now that you know, who do you think is scum?

[Cove]

Called active lurking, ties in with lurking from question 6 of Robo's question.

It's worth noting, for sure. Kleedrac: Who is scum?

[Cove]

Cove, that's not the focal point of my argument. Look at my post again, especially the stuff concerning the quotes.

I was merely answering your question in bold, and saying that your case has merit. I didn't mention the stuff in quotes because I'm not about to start defending other people, that's their job.

[Cove]

us who are vanilla town (yes, this includes me)

I think it's a good thing this is a newbie game, because you could get seriously torn to shreds for this elsewhere.

This goes for everyone:

DO NOT CLAIM YOUR ROLE UNLESS YOU ARE ONE VOTE AWAY FROM BEING LYNCHED AND SOMEONE SHOWS INTEREST IN HAMMERING. I don't care how much it helps your case.

If you are indeed town, you just narrowed the field from 7 to 6 (6 to 5 if we don't lynch you and mislynch today) people that scum can choose from if they want to try and hit a PR. Not good form.

Also, those of you not voting, (this includes AKR now), why aren't you voting for someone? Our votes place pressure, and help judge reactions. They need to be used if we're going to find and lynch scum.

[Cove]

AKR: Click on the wiki link on any of my posts, or in my profile. I have my games linked there. My only scum game is in an ongoing game, NY111, (I'm dead) linked in my wiki, but I replaced into that position.

klee: Your vote is still on AKR right? Still find him scummy?

AKR: Unvoting without replacing the vote somewhere else is generally a pretty good scum tell, since the person isn't scum hunting. Right now though, nobody is scum hunting and I can't vote out all of you, so I am not so sure it's appropriate in this game.

[Cove]

You can't build a solid case on anybody after 3 pages. The approach to mafia should be iterative:

-vote based on something (could be random, could be something weak, whatever is available when you first post)
-re-evaluate after you see a response (if you see a response)
-place vote on most likely target at that time (might be the same person, might not be)
-gauge reactions
-re-evaluate and vote
-keep doing this until you hit something solid

I don't see people jumping in and doing the first or second steps. I'm after going through 5 or 6 steps, and I'd be further if I could see a reaction from GroupThink.

About the quote tages you need to put the username in quotation marks.

[Cove]

AKR: Read the last few pages of that game. I finished my toughest semester yet at the end of April and I started posting very rapidly near the end. It got to the point where Zorblag (replaced sirdanilot) told me to sign up for another game or two.

[Cove]

mod: V/LA until Tuesday. If I'm lucky it won't be that long

[Cove]

What have I come back to...

I'm going to try to get through the robo/AKR argument tonight, but from the looks of it, I might gouge my eyes out before I finish.

Reactions tomorrow at the latest.

[Cove]

I don`t even know where to start with this. Robocopter is just all kinds of wrong and that is it. There is no way that playing the style of game he is talking about will help anybody. I can't even read his "case" against AKR because I'd have to switch back and forth between AKR's ISO and his post to be able to see if I agree or not.

I don't like that he brings up points as being townie when he's building a case against someone either. Get on one side of the fence.

GroupThink has a high probability of being scum because he's been chainsaw defended, and his wagon hasn't grown past 2 people. On top of the fact that he's not contributing.

Robo is just plain anti-town. What he is spouting doesn't help the town and only will lead to a deadline lynch if people play like he proposes.

[Cove]

GroupThink: Wut?

Robocopter87: You are spouting crap about building cases and not to suspect anybody without "solid" evidence. In 99% of mafia games you will never have solid evidence. You definitely won't get it without placing votes first. I don't see anything solid in your "case" against AKR, and on top of that I saw you wrote points about posts that gained TOWNIE and NULL points. Why did you include those?

People need to know that it is pro-town to start getting their votes being put to use, not with-holding them until scum jumps into your lap:

See Here

THose of you not voting GroupThink: Why aren't you?

[Cove]

Robo: I would argue completely differently. I think GroupThink's meta points to him being scum moreso than anything.

[Cove]

Also, your definition of an ISO is not a case, it's not helpful, and it's hard for people to see what you're saying. I do not approve, and have seen it mentioned many times that cases should not contain every post by someone.

[Cove]

His town meta shows that he tries when he's town.

[Cove]

Cases shouldn't have all of the player's posts in them unless they are relevant to what you're saying, and if you refer to multiple posts, you should quote them.

By saying "this post is scummy, this post is townie, this one is null, here's another townie one" You are sitting on two sides of the fence, giving you an out if you end up leading a wagon on a townie.

I wouldn't be mentioning all this stuff if it wasn't a newbie game, since I don't want to be a part of sending an army of anti-town folk into higher end games, where they will be met with similar criticism.

[Cove]

When GT is town, GT tries everything he knows how to do to win (even bend the rules, but I'm not going there). He's hardly trying this game.

[Cove]

I followed along with Newbie 945. You can see in his first 5 posts he has contributed more than he has here, even if his attitude is similar.

[Cove]

Post it whenever it's done, just don't vote GroupThink until he claims, and we discuss that claim.

[Cove]

I really don`t know where you get this stuff Robo, I really don't.

[Cove]

I'm here, was away for the weekend, left Thursday. Going to bed now, will try to get something up in the morning.

[Cove]

I've come across a rough patch with my research. I am going to have to ask to be replaced, and I'm doing so in both of my games. My supervisor comes into my office every few hours and adds more work to my plate so I just don't get the time.

Sorry about this.