Mini 990: YuGiOh! The Abridged Mafia - (OVER)

[Pomegranate]

/confirmatory!

[Pomegranate]

vote: Pomegranate

I say we kill him...in America.

... in Canada. And I'm a she.

(When I told my little sister [who doesn't play mafia] that I was playing a YGOTAS game, and asked who she thought I'd be, she goes "...Bakura?")

VOTE: Charter. He stole my Blue Eyes White Dragon.

[Pomegranate]

@Pomegr: umm Bakura's a guy...

Did I imply that he isn't?

[Pomegranate]

Vote Beloved

It's where my gut is pointing.

Any reason? Because I don't like this wagon, the way it built.

[Pomegranate]

Vote Beloved

It's where my gut is pointing.

Any reason? Because I don't like this wagon, the way it built.

Didn't particularly like her joke posts. What is wrong with a wagon in the RVS? What don't you like about this wagon?

If it was an RVS vote, then why did you disguise it as 'gut'?

[Pomegranate]

If it was an RVS vote, then why did you disguise it as 'gut'?

Because I voted her because I didn't like her joking posts. I don't see where you can be confused.

Then why did you call it an RVS wagon, if

your

vote isn't random?

As you said:

What is wrong with a wagon in the RVS?

[Pomegranate]

My vote wasn't random. The wagon formed in the RVS and most of the votes looked random to me. Why are you turning a simple vote into a crusade?

Does your gut have anything else to say now that BP has posted, or is it still just pointing at her for no apparent reason?

[Pomegranate]

Weekly V/LA.

[Pomegranate]

Ok let's try this: Jarti, pray tell, why should my vote be on Pom right now?

I'd also like to know why my vote should be on Pomegranate right now.

[Pomegranate]

I understand what the dram 'wagon' is built on, but I don't think it's that scummy.

[Pomegranate]

I'm really not sure right now; the game is at such a standstill. I will think about it tonight.

[Pomegranate]

So while we let Pomegranate voice distaste for any wagon that builds up and prevent the game from going anywhere, let's lynch him. Everyone sure seems hesitant to vote him, although I guess that's what happens when some of those people are his scumbuddies.

Or we can kill Chronopie who's content voicing suspicions without following through with them.

What do

you

think of the Dram wagon, Jarti?

I'm currently suspicious of bv, because he is lurking, and the posts he's made are RVS, or plainly don't contain anything of importance.

Unvote; Vote: bv

.

[Pomegranate]

Re: Alamaster's wagon, it's not as bad when I reread it, but she says she understands the dramonic wagon, but doesn't think he's scummy. It's pretty much playing both sides but not committing one way or the other. She's free to change her mind later once the direction the wind is blowing gets established.

No, I am against the wagon, because I don't think that the way Dramonic responded fairly quickly after he was called out for luyrking was scummy.I've done it too, and I will not vote dramonic for that. However, I understand the point that was made.

So, no, I'm notplaying both sides, though it's possible I worded my sentance badly.

Now let me look at Kitoari.

[Pomegranate]

Pom, what do you think of Kitoari? Scummy, townish, null, other?

Somewhat scummy, but not like bv.

[Pomegranate]

@Pom: wait, you legitly think bv's scummy? I thought you were only voting him because he lurks!

Well, with his most recent posts, yes I think he''s scummy. (The only person he seriously talks about is Kitoari. And everything else isn't really serious.)

[Pomegranate]

BV lurks as scum in my experience, but the game in question is ongoing.

[Pomegranate]

I thought Pom testified that she saw bv lurking as scum before

Yes. And?

[Pomegranate]

What do

you

think of the Dram wagon, Jarti?

Nothing to lynch over, but it actually did get some banter flowing & I don't see why you would feel the need to step in and say you're against it at that point when there were all of 2 votes on him.[/quot]

Since when was it bad to give an opinion on something? It's

not

good to say what I think about a wagon? That's news to me.

So now that BV wagon fell apart because it was meta, let's kill scum.

Actually, I'm voting him because he lurked, posted a terrible catchup post mentioning only Kitoari, and talked about weird one-sided OMGUS. Someone asked about his meta and I gave what I know, but that's not why I voted him in the first place.

[Pomegranate]

Weekly V/LA

.

[Pomegranate]

The fact that Jarti voted me for using 'flimsy reasoning' as a justification for a vote is, in itself, flimsy. Given I (and others) had prior meta of Bv310 as lurker-scum, my Bv vote was, infact, justified, therefore Jarti's vote is weaksauce, thus justifies a counter-vote.

To clarify: Was your vote based on meta?

(Steve? Steve!)

[Pomegranate]

Actually, I'm voting him because he lurked, posted a terrible catchup post mentioning only Kitoari, and talked about weird one-sided OMGUS. Someone asked about his meta and I gave what I know, but that's not why I voted him in the first place.

The rest of the wagon didn't though.

Alright, so BV lurks when he's scum.
Let's lynch him then, especially since he's not being active anyways. (at this rate, I can't get a read on him at all)

Unvote
Vote: bv310

Anyone support/oppose this?

I support this <<

Unvote
Vote: bv

inb4Almasteryells

So no-one has Bv-town/lurker meta?

VOTE: BV310

All in succession. So yeah, your vote may have been founded, but what got people to hop onto the wagon was meta garbage. At least the way I see it.

Willing to throw out lists & then most of the explanations for reads are gut but no effort to vote the people he felt were slightly scummy. But then willing to jump on a flimsy meta-wagon. Screaming scum here.

1) Gut reads, and past meta, are valuable tools in any scummers arsenal.

2) I know of past (completed) Bv310 games, which has him as lurker-scum.

3) Not screaming. I'M NOTICEABLY AGAINST THIS KIND OF POSTING. Irritating to read.

4) Semi-confirmable town role. Don't need to say any more.

--

Since Bv310 provided some town-lurker meta, which I briefly skimmed, I am forced to conclude that lurking is a null-tell for him. Seeing as that was my basis for voting him. UNVOTE: Bv310

Nice to see you trying to call me out with weaksauce reasoning, calling my vote flimsy, then making a flimsy vote yourself. VOTE: Jarti <- Not an OMGUS.

You hop on and off the BV wagon very easily with a "meta says this; vote him"; "meta says that; unvote him" series of events. I'm fairly sure that makes your vote on him flimsy as there isn't much substance to your backing and it shows.

You also neglect to respond to why you didn't feel the need to vote the people you were getting 'slightly scummy' reads on, but were able to easily hop on a meta-case wagon. Gut reads and meta are an important part of your arsenal you say in your #1, but I sense a disconnect between when you are and are not voting.

Let's kill chronopie.

Yes (to just about all of this). But IMO, meta isn't quite as weak as some see it. Still, I see what you mean with all the meta votes one after another... and yes, Chrono is the worst of them. But I think my BV vote still stands as he hasn't posted since my vote IIRC. However, I'll give a big ol'

Fos

to

Chronopie

.

ATTENTION DUELISTS

MY HAIR WOULD LIKE TO ANNOUNCE THE VOTECOUNT!

AlmasterGM
Beloved Princess (0) -
Brandi (0) -
bv310 (3) - Pomegranate FakeGod dramonic
charter (0) -
Chronopie (2) - Jarti MaxMouse
dramonic (1) - AlmasterGM
FakeGod (0) -
Jarti (1) - Chronopie
Kitoari (3) - Beloved Princess Charter bv310
MaxMouse (0) -
Pomegranate (0) -

12 alive, 7 to lynch

[Pomegranate]

Re: Alamaster's wagon, it's not as bad when I reread it, but she says she understands the dramonic wagon, but doesn't think he's scummy. It's pretty much playing both sides but not committing one way or the other. She's free to change her mind later once the direction the wind is blowing gets established.

No, I am against the wagon, because I don't think that the way Dramonic responded fairly quickly after he was called out for luyrking was scummy.I've done it too, and I will not vote dramonic for that. However, I understand the point that was made.

So, no, I'm notplaying both sides, though it's possible I worded my sentance badly.

Now let me look at Kitoari.

So you don't think it scummy. What do you think of those using it as their reason to vote dramonic? I find it hard to believe that a wagon springs up on dramonic for pretty much one reason, but you disagree that that reason is scummy, yet you don't question those voting one bit.

I think it's lame. The reason why I don't find it that scummy is because

I

used to make arguments like that (as a townie), until I realized that it wasn't really as scummy as I thought.

Almaster: Have you ever lurked or not posted or been busy or simply not been at the computer, and then posted within a couple hours of being addressed?

--

@Pom: wait, you legitly think bv's scummy? I thought you were only voting him because he lurks!

Well, with his most recent posts, yes I think he''s scummy. (The only person he seriously talks about is Kitoari. And everything else isn't really serious.)

How is this any different than Beloved or Kitoari? I think Beloved is a bigger lurker and Kitoari is the penultimate active lurker.

Well, other than the fact that BP has been replaced, he's not that different than Kitoari. But I only have one vote. However, tomorrow I will compare their scumminess in iso, to male you happy.

--

Right now, Pom is screaming scum to me, but last time that happened, she was town, so I'm sticking with Kitoari for now.

That's kind of stupid, IMO. What do you think of meta arguments?

[Pomegranate]

@Pom - Sure. When I was scum. Also, there's a difference between not being at the computer and being at the computer but not posting. Dram was clearly the latter. Explain to me how LURKING is not scummy.

First of all, posting two hours later is not the same as posting say, 15 minutes later.

Also, I sometimes get lurky as town, if I'm bored of the game, or trying to work things out. And the game was kind of lagging...

Also, the last time you played with me... was that the game where I was scum with Kmd and KScope? Because IIRC I got into a big 'argument' with Kmd D1, he got lynched, and I got vigged that night. How is my play here similar in any way? Also, wasn't that ages ago? It was my first game ever as scum.

[Pomegranate]

Ooh yay, someone is actually playing in that playerslot! Woohoo!

[Pomegranate]

Pie: I don't remember jumping on Fate in Ridiculous Drama, but it's probably just my memory and I ought to check it up.

[Pomegranate]

Hey Pie.

ftr pom (and others): please don't use just 'pie' it makes it awkward to read, (at least it has in the past)

--

I can live with a lack of Dram for another day, as long as he's promising a catch-up post with some content.

I know, from Ridiculous Drama. I forgot you were in the game though.

I'll give Dram one more chance, but not more.

[Pomegranate]

Hey, Pom, know how you were saying Dramonic's lurking and then coming when called wasn't scummy because it took him 2 hours to show up, not the 15 minutes I quoted?

WELL GUESS HOW LONG IT TOOK HIM THIS TIME?

3 minutes.

If that plus all the 1-liners and promises to post aren't scummy, then I don't know what is. Replace, wait, whatever. There are too many strikes in my book for it to even be relevant.

I know; I looked at the timestamps. And that's why I'm seriously considering voting him this time. He gets until I show up tomorrow afternoon, or thereabouts.

[Pomegranate]

VOTE: dramonic. It's been long enough.

ATTENTION DUELISTS

MY HAIR WOULD LIKE TO ANNOUNCE THE VOTECOUNT!

AlmasterGM
Brandi (0) -
bv310 (1) - dramonic
charter (0) -
Chronopie (1) - Jarti
dramonic (4) - AlmasterGM InflatablePie FakeGod Pomegranate
FakeGod (0) -
InflatablePie (0) -
Jarti (1) - Chronopie
Kitoari (1) - bv310
MaxMouse (1) - Charter
Pomegranate (0) -

12 alive, 7 to lynch

[Pomegranate]

^^^Basically what he said. Including the bit about a Kitoari wagon.

[Pomegranate]

Kit lynch is okay, but dram is better.

[Pomegranate]

Eh, that's interesting, but not the scummiest thing about him.

[Pomegranate]

whoa waaaait a second. Am I missing something here?

How do you know there's only 1 scum left???? Aren't there usually 3 scum in a 12 people game?

I think he was assuming that this quote from dramonic

Wow...
Will your other buddy step up so that we can call this game, or...?

proves that there's only one other scumbag.

I wouldn't assume that though.

[Pomegranate]

2 scum in 12 people mafia would be too easy!

Not necessarily. Give 'em some good PRs, make the town kinda weak, it could work fine.

[Pomegranate]

Apparently 2:10 mountainous favors scum.

Or that's what I always read in MD.

[Pomegranate]

Being that Almaster was one of the leaders of the dram lynch, I'm not seeing him as scum.

Vote: Kit

for now.

But Dram was voting Kit, so you think Dram was bussing?

Actually, I don't think he was bussing.

Kit is scummy, but I think that he's more likely town from that.

[Pomegranate]

Vote: charter

. I think he's scum, more reasoning to come; it's a good part of what FG said.

(I think an SK is theoretically possible, but unlikely due to the single kill.)

[Pomegranate]

Okay, I've been a bit busy, but my case on charter will be ready tonight. It's nothing big though, because he's so obviously scummy.

[Pomegranate]

because he's so obviously scummy.

I'm not unwilling to lynch him, but since when was he so obvscum?

Obvious scum is not the same as obviously scummy, or at least IMO.

[Pomegranate]

because he's so obviously scummy.

I'm not unwilling to lynch him, but since when was he so obvscum?

Obvious scum is not the same as obviously scummy, or at least IMO.

um..... EBWOP: but since when was he so obviously scummy?

To me. Case soon.

[Pomegranate]

Stuff on charter

-

ISO 7

Also suspicious of Pom, I think twice now she's questioned 'wagons' but for no reason other than it's a wagon. She's not doing the town questioning of it, but the scum kind.

I don't like the way charter misrepresents me; I explained myself both times. And I don't have anything against wagons that have reasoning I agree with backing them up.

ISO 8

Also suspicious of Pom, I think twice now she's questioned 'wagons' but for no reason other than it's a wagon. She's not doing the town questioning of it, but the scum kind.

It would please me greatly if you elaborated on this. I just want to know how you define scum and town questioning in order for me to understand your suspicion.

Re: Beloved's wagon, she said she didn't like the wagon. Didn't elaborate or question the votes she didn't like (

unless mine was the only one she had an issue with

). I actually asked her to elaborate, but instead of answering my questions, she tried to spin an attack on to me.
Re: Alamaster's wagon,

it's not as bad when I reread it, but she says she understands the dramonic wagon, but doesn't think he's scummy. It's pretty much playing both sides but not committing one way or the other.

She's free to change her mind later once the direction the wind is blowing gets established.

If she were town, and legitimately thought either of these wagons was poor, I would expect her to explain why she thought they are poor, and question those voting. What Pom did was be very vague and kind of test out the waters.

She also just laid down a lurker vote on Bv, but didn't mention our other lurker, Beloved. A lurker vote at this time is a pretty safe thing to do if you're scum. No one is going to question voting for a lurker, because lurking should be punished, but at the same time,

she isn't asking Bv any questions or giving him any reason to post. She's just keeping her nose clean.

I see this was in response to Alamaster asking her who she's suspicious of, and she comes back with the lurker vote and nothing else.

Regarding the blue: Your vote

was

the only vote on the wagon I had a problem with. I explained myself many times. Why did you keep bringing this up?
Regarding the red: I had explained myself, and after this I recall explaining myself again. Again, there's no reason to bring something up again that's already been explained, and you admit that "it's not as bad when I (you) reread it."
Regarding the green: What questions should I ask him, if he hasn't done anything? It was a pressure vote, pure pressure. The point is for the lurker to see that there's a vote on him to get him to post, not to ask him questions.

Pom, what do you think of Kitoari? Scummy, townish, null, other?
Kitoari, what do you think of Pom? Scummy, townish, null, other?

I don't like the way you ask question to make it appear that you're scumhunting, but never follow up on them in any way.

ISO 10

Pom starting this wagon is bad, but these people getting on it are even more opportunistic.

Agree with this completely.

What, you demand multiple explanations for every move I make, but only explain that me starting a wagon as 'bad'? What is 'bad' about it?

Right now, Pom is screaming scum to me, but last time that happened, she was town, so I'm sticking with Kitoari for now.

Okay, so this confused me. Because if you think someone is really scummy, why don't you vote that person? Later in ISO 14 you say that "they're (meta arguments) useful, though not iron clad." If that's the case, why do you not vote your top suspect for because of some meta, that seems flimsy-

This is you: Last time Pom seemed scummy, she was town! So now I'll vote Kitoari! Even though meta (on her) isn't that important!

ISO 14

I had forgotten MaxMouse was in this game until his post, so I looked at his other posts. I'm not sure if he or Kitoari is the bigger active lurker. But it appears Kitoari has flaked, so..

unvote, vote MaxMouse

MaxMouse, there's plenty of stuff you can talk about without having a replacement here, there's still like ten other players. Do you think FakeGod is scum? What about Pom? You still going on about Chronopie or what?

Why do ask of MM thinks that FG is scum, if you yourself have not given an opinion on FG?

ISO 16

I don't see how talking often correlates to helping the town. As far as I know, scum are free to post as much as they want, doesn't mean it's helpful to the town.

You post often, but a lot of them aren't remotely helpful to the town.

And, to debate your reasoning just for the hell of it, MaxMouse has 14 posts in 8 pages, and discounting mod posts and all that, comes out to pretty much 1/12th of the posts.

And you, charter, post infrequently, and when I do the math (subtracting mod posts), you have definitely posted fewer than 1/12 of the posts in this game- 21 posts in 301 player post, after subtracting RBT's posts. And four of you posts (specifically, ISO posts 6,9,17, and 21) have been things like 'I've been prodded' and "I'll catch up tonight."

ISO 18 & 19

Not opposed to the dram wagon, only thing worrying me is that everyone I'm suspicious of is voting dramonic (though he's given good reason for people to vote him).

2) This sounds kinda fencesitting-ish or possibly buddy-distancing? Or I'm crazy. FoS charter.

I'm saying I think the case against dramonic is a good one, but I don't like how all the people I'm suspicious of made easy wagon votes on him. His wagon looks scum fueled to me, hence why I'm not voting him.

So you're "not opposed to the dram wagon", BUT you're suspicious of everyone voting him. Even worse, you think think "the case against dramonic is a good one" but everyone "made easy wagon votes on him". And you never explain what you don't like about the dram wagon, or even give a clear opinion on the leading wagon of the day at all. You contradict yourself and don't make sense. And the way you go against the dram wagon (while not being "opposed to it"), and then dram flipping scum... very, very scummy in my eyes.

VOTE: charter.

[Pomegranate]

Or you could be like, person who suspects bv310 is killed, bv310 starts day by making bad votes against person who tried really, really hard to lynch his partner and did so.

eh, I'm confused.

He's saying that Chrono suspects bv D1, and then Chrono dies N1. And then D2 bv starts by voting Almaster, who pushed the wagon on dramscum the day before.

[Pomegranate]

He's saying that he suspects bv, yes.

[Pomegranate]

I'm getting more suspicious of Brandi. (Even though I love her avatar. And sig.)

And I'm upset with the lack of discussion about my big post. I'm waiting for charter.

[Pomegranate]

I mean, charter is scummy, but WTH FakeGod, three claims?

Why

? No.
VOTE: FakeGod

I will be following up on charter's response when I have time.

(Also, Pie, there have been times when I haven't claimed at L-1 as scum.)

[Pomegranate]

Based purely on meta, I would say I still don't believe FG is scum. He was incredibly scummy and portraying all sorts of obvscumtells in Furry, that it's hard to think he's much different here than there. I can provide links for anyone interested. LYLO was where he was most notably scummy. I wont support this lynch though, unless someone can show me a game they played with FG where he was scum and acted this way as well.

Anyhoo,

vote: Pom

Her vote on FG is the most opportunistic by far.

I think it's better than not voting at all ever.

[Pomegranate]

First charter accuses me of criticizing every wagon, and now you criticize me for joining every wagon.

What do you mean by 'jumping every wagon'? Because I don't think I've been doing it.

Also, what do you think of charter?

[Pomegranate]

Well there haven't been too many wagons. You were on the bv, charter, and now FG wagon. You were on Dramonic as well at the very very end but seemed hesitant against it. I suppose you were more of the ones pushing for Charter than just hopping on, however, so I'll give you that. The way you hopped on the FG wagon just seems out of place considering how much you seemed to want to lynch charter before.

I already stated previously that I'm pretty neutral towards charter. I don't really see him as scum, but if he is scum I would be more convinced that you are town.

I pushed the charter wagon (and still think he's probably scum), and I

STARTED

the bv wagon. That leaved FG, which I can understand you calling opportunistic.

[Pomegranate]

Because Chrono flipped VT, that's it. Let me think about this.

[Pomegranate]

Paraphrasing.......

alright, my role PM says I am a VT and also a sibling. and then something about Brooklyn(?) and apparently I have no actual powers since Yugi saves my butt all the time. Also, I know my sister Serenity (chronopie) is town, but I cannot secretly communicate to her in any way.

I also checked with the mod pregame whether I or Serenity would suffer bad consequences (like dying the next night or something) if one of us was killed, but he said no, so we ain't lovers or anything like that.

We don't have any powers or penalties other than that we know each other is town.

Preview: we're not Masons, but just VTs who knows each other.. Chrono would've flipped mason if we were masons...

It's Brooklyn RAGE. What else?

There are linked roles called siblings- https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Siblings.

Inconsistencies:

1. Chrono flipped VT, not Sibling.
2. Siblings are similar to Lovers, and one commits suicide when the other is killed.

And it's DGB with the sig. Very true.

[Pomegranate]

Unvote for now, mainly following my gut here. But I might revote; like I said, I need to think about this a bit.

[Pomegranate]

Oops,

Unvote

. Forgot that. Hehe.

[Pomegranate]

Re

Vote: FakeGod

. Yes.

Pie, I don't think that your theory really proves Jarti as scum; it seems somewhat weak to me.

[Pomegranate]

Well, I also gave the reasons why I wasn't very satisfied with your claim.

Weekly V/LA.

[Pomegranate]

Almaster, and whoever else wanted to see why I didn't like the claim-

Inconsistencies:

1. Chrono flipped VT, not Sibling.
2. Siblings are similar to Lovers, and one commits suicide when the other is killed.

[Pomegranate]

Okay, so I've been fairly busy recently, and will probably continue to be for a few days. I still find FG and charter scummy.

Also

: I will need to be replaced after 7/28, as I will be going away and without internet access for a month's time starting then.

HOWEVER

, I will probably be able to get Plum to temp for me (or simply replace me if it's easier), if the mod is fine with it. If Plum temps for me, I will be returning at the end of August.

[Pomegranate]

Kitoari is being replaced.

[Pomegranate]

Hai Fishy. I know I've played with you before, but I don't remember much about you.

[Pomegranate]

Finished a first pass at reading the game. I'll have some reads by this time tomorrow.

Chrono's breadcrumb:

Unless He's a 'Steve,' I doubt that Fg is scum.

FG claims the character name of Chrono's brother, with a masons-who-don't-talk-or-flip role. Now, this breadcrumb basically confirms that. However, it still makes total sense - in fact even more sense - if they are unconfirmed neighbour-type roles (or any paired unconfirmed role). Chrono is saying that he doubts FG is scum, if he is truly Joey - if he has changed into "Steve" (as he does at some point in the subject matter, becoming evil [is this right?]), then he probably is scum. If FG was confirmed to Chrono, the "Unless he's a 'Steve'" is serving no purpose here.

This makes sense, but it also makes FG look bad.

[Pomegranate]

@Pom: Fishy's saying that my claim makes sense. Why does that make me look bad?

This is what I'm talking about:

However, it still makes total sense - in fact

even more sense

- if they are unconfirmed neighbour-type roles (or any paired unconfirmed role).

Bold is mine.

This unconfirmed- neighbor idea makes more sense, but if this is the case, then it appears that you would have lied about your role, which looks bad.

[Pomegranate]

"Who do you think needs to better explain their reasoning?" -Jarti

You, Pom, and Pie. Go answer Charter on why you guys voted him.

If post #320 is not enough, I'm not sure what is.

[Pomegranate]

I've been very busy in recent days, but I'll post tomorrow.

[Pomegranate]

@IP: I have never completed a game as scum ><; Well, except for marathon days, but, I dont have links to those or even remember them but Im sure there are some out there.

Am I the only one who thinks this sounds like she is scum this game?

No.

[Pomegranate]

Unvote; Vote: Brandi.

I endorse this wagon.

[Pomegranate]

Unvote.

Wait, why am I scum again?