Open 228 - Mafia in KyleVille - Game Over!

[Merkabah]

VOTE: PaltryExcuse

Wagoning and slight knowledge of at least one aspect of your play.

We're watching you, Emp -_-

[Merkabah]

Massclaim is pretty stupid in an open setup. Closed you can kinda see the setup of the game better, but in an open game like this it's not a good idea til later on.

@Karma: (alts make me sad): I don't see any disadvantages to it. Seeing other peoples reactions to a wagon is probably the best resource I get from it.

[Merkabah]

@Karma: (alts make me sad): I don't see any disadvantages to it. Seeing other peoples reactions to a wagon is probably the best resource I get from it.

How do you know I'm an alt

@Oopidstay: What's the reason for the vote switch? Flip-flopping in RVS gives me scummy vibes.

@Karma:
1) you just told me
2) nobody that "joined" two weeks ago would talk about the benefits of an RVS wagon.

Hmm, wonder where this will end up going.

UNVOTE: PaltryExcuse
VOTE: oopidstay

[Merkabah]

Flip-flopping in the RVS like you've been repeatedly doing is a minor tell, at least from my experience.

What is your experience with it?

We? Is this a hydra and I know one of you (or you know me)?

This is indeed a hydra account of VP Baltar and Amished.


Also curious what Oopidstay's "point" is.

[Merkabah]

@Karma: So why is it pro-scum?

@PE: All of my (Amished's) experience with you comes from reading you in another game after you replaced out and your replacement got lynched.

[Merkabah]

Why is your vote on me anyway, Merk?

Only after you tell me what your point was in voting me.

It's not even about avoiding meta, it's more about trying to learn the game better through dealing with another person extremely closely. VP and I read the game relatively similarly so it's both fun and challenging to keep our thoughts all on one goal at a time to not be completely unreadable (like many hydra's are) yet still find scum.

@Robo: So do something about it. Bitching about "oh, the RVS is taking too long" on PAGE TWO does nothing. Ask a question, do something scummy if you're scum so we can lynch you and help win this game, something.

[Merkabah]

@Robo: And this is scumhunting.... how, again? I'm curious as to your superficial "reasoning", if you could call it that. How is this adding to discussion, or getting out of RVS, or any other banal reasoning that you want to throw out there?

@Oopid: Vote-hopping is generally more of a town-tell for me in most circumstances, but obviously there are exceptions; so it wasn't for that. However, it looked to be the best "tell" to try to draw out any scum seeing a nice early wagon and pushing for a claim. Obviously that didn't happen, but them's the breaks. I was also seeing if you would do anything stupid as both of us are notoriously bad at reading newbies, so if you firm up our read one way or another that's also beneficial.

From what I think I know of Karma, he just looks tunneled but this is a decent way to add to discussion.

UNVOTE: Oopidstay

[Merkabah]

@PE: It's definitely subjective, but it didn't look like Oopid was trying to bandwagon for a mislynch, just a pure backlash. I see scums not wanting to votehop too much because if they stop doing it for any reason it'll look suspicious (and they generally don't votehop onto partners, etc..) so there's much more that can go wrong. Granted, most people don't think ahead that much but I see newb-scum (and I agree that Oopid looks newbish; but has potential) be tentative. So in this particular case I have a slight town read of Oopid.

[Merkabah]

@Oopid, Muthaa: Semantics arguing is getting you nowhere and is cluttering the thread. Ask better questions.

[Merkabah]

@Robo: And this is scumhunting.... how, again? I'm curious as to your superficial "reasoning", if you could call it that. How is this adding to discussion, or getting out of RVS, or any other banal reasoning that you want to throw out there?

Slightly different idea.
Adding to discussion, not its point.
Getting out of RVS, trying to get us out of RVS by using RVS as a boost.
Banal reasoning? Not really.

What I think is that by someone doing something scummy, someone else does something scummy while trying to point out the scummy thing, thus starting a giant chain reaction that keeps this game afloat. So what I did, and I can't believe I am doing this, its to complex for RVS, is when you said to do something scummy, I OMGUS voted you, which is scummy. Then you responded and others responded and it was supposed to be a chain reaction. It is quite complex and I daresay that it didn't go down to well.

So thats my, as you say, banal reasoning.

@Mod, Can we get a vote count here? Thx

So... you wanted to draw out teh scumz by being scummy? Try again, cause town looks for scummy stuff too.

lolreactions doesn't work. Try scumhunting.

(director voice)Take 2, ACTION!

[Merkabah]

So... you wanted to draw out teh scumz by being scummy? Try again, cause town looks for scummy stuff too.

lolreactions doesn't work. Try scumhunting.

(director voice)Take 2, ACTION!

Lol no I wanted to get rid of RVS by being scummy in RVS. Cause your right,

Town looks for scummy stuff

too. And when

they

see scummy stuff they talk and now I think we are out of RVS.

lolreactions do work, they wouldn't be so popular if they just failed miserably. I am scumhunting. But Its kinda page 3 and I really kinda think its impossible too just like call out the scum for the whole game. I can give it a loltry. I hereby declares that the scum will end up being Paltry and Kthxbye! If I am right I will laugh so hard.

Take 2 isn't needed.

unvote

Yay scumslip!

VOTE: Robocopter87

@Oopid: Essentially yes. That type of argument clutters the thread and doesn't get anywhere.

[Merkabah]

@PE: Yes, it's a serious vote. I (Amished) rely on linquistics a fair amount; but it's not the only reason that I'm voting for Robo.

Look at his posts: First one can draw out PR's when in this setup it's much more beneficial to keep them hidden (as the only protective role would make the other PR absolutely useless. Second is fluff. Third is bitching about RVS without doing anything (and fluff). Fourth was "lolreactions" vote on us after being called out on not doing anything to advance out of the RVS. Fifth was "reasoning" (still not advancing the game). Sixth is explaining why his lolreactions is stupid (still not advancing the game) and seventh doesn't feel townie (overly defensive).

So, you tell me who's been more active and less helpful to the game than he is.

Mod: Empking needs a prod, been 3 days now

[Merkabah]

@PE: So.. why haven't you pushed for more votes on Robo if you feel that strongly?

[Merkabah]

Voting for somebody and pushing for their lynch are two different things. Meta isn't exactly a convincing argument; especially when no meta is being provided, nor any explanation of how you know both sides of Robo's meta/have a game of both alignments.

[Merkabah]

Uhhhhh, Kyle. You put me down with three votes and then put me down with another vote from paltry.

(1)

Also, I kinda find it funny that you talk of my meta Paltry when Karma's meta is only scum games according to his sig.

Also, I am at L-1. do you guys want a claim?

(2)

Though I think its kinda stupid that you vote me off meta from a guy whos never played with me,

(3)

A supposed scumslip,

(4)

and trying to get out of RVS, and I don't even remember if Kthxbye had a reason. I would laugh so hard if I was quickhammered. It almost might beat my record.

(5)

I got killed on page four in some newbie game for being to aggresive, and now I might die fo being to ehh, "scummy".

1) What does somebody else's meta have to do with yours?
2) What does playing with you have to do with your meta? You play how you play; period.
3) That's not the only reason. Go Fish.
4) That wasn't the reason either. Go Fish
5) I hope you do get lynched; and it's not because you're "ehh scummy". I DARE you to show where anybody has said that.

I say lynch scum now.

@Karma: Why are you still voting him if you don't want a quicklynch? Can't he talk without your vote on him?

[Merkabah]

Why is it that you don't move your vote Muthaa? I see no reason for you to not be able to move it. We even have nifty VOTE: tags now...so why is your vote srs bsns?

Also, can I have links to your completed games? thanks.

[Merkabah]

@kthx: put your vote back on him. Shouldn't take long to get your head around 5 pages, and robo is scum.

@robo: any particular reason you ignored kthxbye as a lurker after calling out emp and h-kiss?

[Merkabah]

Nah, I've caught scum on page 2 before, it's not a record. Also, essentially saying that scumhunting cannot happen before a certain point (otherwise how could scum be caught so early?!?!) is NOT helping your case.

If defending yourself is your main problem, why would you decide to attack the easiest target ever? Your stated priorities do not line up with your actions.

[Merkabah]

EBWOP: Something with some scum and some town motivation = WIFOMy nulltell.
Something with basically 0 town motivation = scumtell.

Why aren't people voting him? His arguments do not defend himself, he attacks easy targets, and his one attempt at moving the game forward didn't work and stalled the game even further.

[Merkabah]

@EMP: Robo isn't at L-1 anymore, why aren't you voting him now that he's "obv-scum"?

[Merkabah]

So you have nothing to say about the leading wagon, yet deride an innocuous comment that was backed up by reasoning, and you make a tiny push on an alternate wagon that has little support right now.

I thought I made it clear that I don't believe Robo slipped.

*I* thought you read the whole thread and actually looked at my comprehensive take on all of Robo's play. You know, the part where I didn't even mention the slip as he's just an active lurker.

@whomever asked about my pushing: I'm pushing for a robo lynch because I believe that he's scum. Is there any other reason that I should have to lynch robo? Keeping him alive will only build apathy towards him and get away from my top scum candidate. That's obviously less than optimal since getting away from scum only hurts.

Also, both of us think this is a rather humorous (and scummy) attempt at deflection from the point at hand.

I didn't call myself scum. I don't understand where you got this idea stuck in your head. Your completly ignoring everything I'm saying. Have you fully read the posts in this game or are you just skimming them? Seriously, in my situation, I am doing a pretty darn good job .

-snip-

shush, obv-scum. Why *can't* we get a claim and a lynch?

[Merkabah]

It draws people's attention to it so it makes my point stand out to them. It's awesome.

Btw, the slip was more to see how you reacted (see other post without a case)
Btw, you said you acted like scum would (and didn't change)
Btw, you never said why meta didn't work. You can get a meta off of people that you haven't played with.
Btw, you are an active lurker insofar as you're active (i.e. not lurking) but you're lurking as you aren't really posting anything of content. Games are fun, but you also try to win.

Finally, GOD DAMMIT OOPID. You were doing so well, and now I think Robo is town.

[Merkabah]

What's funny about it Muthaa?

[Merkabah]

Am I the only one to see the fail?

I think we all see that there was no NK. I just find it funny that you find it funny. To quote Billy Bob Thorton:

"Funny queer, not funny ha-ha."

[Merkabah]

@Merk: What do you mean by that quote?

I was just being a smart ass. Anyhow, I found your comments about the no NK to be kind of strange was my point. You seemed like you were trying really hard to joke around with the town. I wish I could find it, but I recall his one game where a player (Kise I think) caught a scum solely for using lol in post. You're was an odd post and the lol didn't help.

Now that I have a little time, I'm going to do a full re-read to see how the heck day 1 ended without everyone giving their input and taking a stance.

Looking forward to it.

We're still debating on our vote, but I think we're getting close to reaching a decision.

[Merkabah]

Vote: Hershey Kiss

@EMP: What are your thoughts on Kiss?
@Paltry: Same question.

[Merkabah]

@Muthaa: Yes, I believed him when I said that. I was going to unvote him in that post but Oopid crossposted me and hammered.

No, I will not reveal why I believed him then but I doubt that particular tell will come up again this game. Even still, I'm not taking that risk as it's easy to fake.

[Merkabah]

UNVOTE: Hershey Kiss
VOTE: Kthxbye

Post or die.

[Merkabah]

Unvote, Vote: Empking

Generally speaking, you try more than this when you're town. I don't mind you lurking if you are giving off town vibes, but you are certainly not this game. Please tell me the top five things you've contributed to this game.

[Merkabah]

> Activity & Deadlines
10) Prods will be issued after 48 hours in a row without posting or under request from players. Multiple prods will probably lead to your replacement.
11) Things come up in life. If you need time off for something, please let myself and the players know in-thread for V/LA purposes. I will be flexible, but if you can't be here for a signifigant amount of time I will replace you.

Do you typically not read the rules Hershey?

[Merkabah]

Also, why did you decide to play an open game instead of a newbie for your first experience on this site? Are you an alt?

[Merkabah]

I helped lynch Robo.
I've consityantly had a vote on day 1.
Plus day 2.
Asked questions despite the dead game.
Answerred all questions directed at me in order to prevent the town from going up the garden path.

Merkabh: Same question?

1) you followed us onto robo and did nothing individual toward the wagon
2) voting someone is nothing actually "contributing" fyi
3) splitting up voting as two points highlights how little you've done
4) Don't recall that really happening
5) I'll give you that you've only really spoken when spoken to

Yeah, liking my vote on you. As far as your repeating of my question to make yourself look busy, don't waste my time. We're basically the only player who has been consistently active this entire game. A good percentage of the overall activity has been generated by us. Hey look, I'm doing it right now!

@merk: Why not? What tell?

WTF are you talking about?

Merk, I think it's better to know the setup.

Why is it better to know the setup (aside from the fact that newbie setups are pretty limited in their variety anyhow)? Also, you didn't answer my question about the rules or if you're an alt. Please do.

[Merkabah]

Merk, what's so important about Hershey Kiss being an alt or not?

Experience level. Lots of people try to play scummy on at alt accounts under the guise of being "inexperienced". If I see someone doing something I think is obviously wrong and yet appear knowledgeable otherwise, I immediately think alt. The fact that Kiss played an open first is odd, as this site can be confusing upon first arrival.

No. Merkabh. I don not think any player in this game could give five good points. You deliberately asked a misleading question and now I want you to answer it.

That's complete bullsheeeeeet. We have eight pages. I know for a fact that we've done more than five things easily. For your ease:

1) Investigated Oopid Day 1
2)Did a good portion of the Robo questioning
3) Questioned Muthaa's weirdness earlier today
4) pushed Hershey to get more involved
5) Called you out on your utter lack of contribution.

These are off the top of my head, so don't give me crap about nobody has done five things.

More people vote Empking now. He's a very good lynch today.

[Merkabah]

More people vote Empking now. He's a very good lynch today.

Muthaa is probably a better lynch. Kthx would be my second choice.

As convincing as this reasoning is, you're going to have to do better than that. Muthaa got way too much hate way too early today to likely be scum, so he's lower on my list at the moment (though he definitely needs to get talking until his replacement is found) and kthx is no longer in this game.

Vote empking.

[Merkabah]

@Empking - See, my problem with you is that I know you can play much better than this. Even though you're always lurky, I know as town you're at least capable of some genuine scumhunting. This song and dance you're pulling now is scummy. Have a lot of people been lurking in this game? Definitely. But my overall point is that you're lurking without contributing any content whatsoever, which I find atypical of your town play. You're still not contributing anything with your vote on me. It looks more like faux-contributing.

Oopid is very much correct that you weren't pushing his lynch even though he was your top suspect. Just parking your vote and hoping that nobody notices you. Now you've voted me for a silly reason and you're still saying very little. Unfortunately for you, you've been brought into the light now and you're going to have to do better or die.

@Karma, why? Don't you have a response to Paltry at all?

[Merkabah]

@Muthaa: that was me (the other head).

The reason is that the tell is easily replicated by scum. I'd rather not reveal it and reduce a level of wifom for me if it comes up again. I will tell you after the game if you remember though.

[Merkabah]

Oh hey look, it's almost deadline and no one is posting. What a surprise.

Wait how does two votes on Muthaa make him town?

Apart from two votes (which is actually a reasonable number when it takes 5 to lynch) several people voiced concern over his comment. It's too much interest in lynching him to likely be scum. That's my opinion.

They are both scummier than he is.

Wow, that is persuasive reasoning. How about you actually explain HOW instead of assuming it's self evident.

It's deadline tomorrow people. You need to lynch empking now. Stop twiddling your thumbs and vote. If you want someone else lynched, then make a damn case. Saying nothing is going to be an auto loss for this town and anyone who is lurking is probably scum.

Mod, how's that kthx replacement coming? Do we get an extension on deadline?

[Merkabah]

Yo, Muthaa, Amished answered your question...what now? How's the massive lurk going?

Hey, Karma, Paltry says you're scum. I'm starting to believe him. Whatcha got to say to that?

Emp, still want you dead. You don't seem to care. Am I still scum? Why aren't you trying to get me lynched?

Paltry, you were all cool and doing stuff day one, now you're not. Don't care for that much.

Hershey, you're still not doing anything. What would you say to the accusation that I think you're empking's scumbuddy?

Oopid, help me out here bro.

[Merkabah]

Yes, cause we looked sooooo scummy when we answered our question perfectly. It was such a trap question that our response fell into our own trap. You're so full of it.

Lynch him now.

[Merkabah]

@ Merk: Would Karma be an acceptable lynch for you?

It is a lynch we could live with if it meant a town consensus. We certainly don't have a town read on him and Paltry is right that his vote does appear a bit opportunistic. I would rather he came in and said some things before I just hop on that wagon out of impatience.

The thing that continues to bother me about Empking, and I know I'm starting to sound like a broken record here but the point remains, is that he's doing nothing to further the game. Even his little attachment to our question to him is old hat at this point. Empking, as lurky as he is in almost any game, does actually put effort in when he's town in my experience. I'm seeing none of that initiative in this game.

If it comes to deadline, you can count on our vote for Karma, but for the time being it will be staying right where it is.


Also, as a game note to the mod(s), please begin searching a little harder for replacements if you can. Bump the replacement notice in the queue if necessary or even begin PMing people you are good with on MS to beg their assistance. It's getting a touch on the ridiculous side to keep playing this game with only half the players posting.

[Merkabah]

lol, read me for what? Again, keep talking in vague terms. Just highlights your scumminess.

Karma, you're at L-1. Claim or die.

[Merkabah]

His hatred of answerring questions for one. It looks to me like he regulary dodges questions he's afraid will incriminate him. Read his posts and then tell me that he doesn't try and dodge out of answering questions and that he doesn't try and play tricks on the town.

I didn't dodge my own fucking question. The point was that I was obviously doing all the scumhunting at that point and you were doing nothing. Asking my own question back was you trying to look busy and if you think I'm going to be fooled by that, then you have a very low respect for my intelligence.

Regardless, you live another day.

Unvote, Vote: Karma

Bang, Bang. You're dead. You had you're chances and we're not no lynching. Welcome myk, bring some good analysis in the morning.