Civilization Mafia - Town Wins!

[Astronaut]

Puzzle: How can you know for sure what stats the upgraded units will have?

[Astronaut]

If it breaks, I say we break it.

[Astronaut]

And we know for sure that the best strategy is to no lynch, build lots of investigation units and not advance into the next era?

Dammit, I'm always ahead in the technology race when I play Civ...

[Astronaut]

Tell me again: Why did we move away from the no lynch plan?

[Astronaut]

Tell me again: Why did we move away from the no lynch plan?

because it was a stupid plan.

As a wise man once said: This is not helpful.

The presumption was that the town had better opportunities of development at night because of our superior numbers. However, there is a possibility that antitowns get access to roleblockers, which, potentially canceling out an entire townsperson’s development regardless of the time spend on development.

We don't know that the barbarians can build roleblockers, and he wouldn't be able to cancel more than that specific night's development.

I'm still not convinced no lynch wouldn't be the better option, but if you can point out a scummy-looking person to me, I'll consider joining your bandwagon.

[Astronaut]

Right, caught up now. Puzzle and Astronaut are the two most likely to be scum.

Vote: Puzzle

I'd really, really like an explanation.

Seconded.

[Astronaut]

Looks like someone just claimed in one of their other games...

[Astronaut]

I'll also point out that Astronaut suddenly reappeared when Versuvan mentioned him as likely scum.

Well, I would like to hear why people are suspecting me, so that I can defend myself. I don't see much reasoning behind any of the accusations thrown around so far, so I had more or less accepted a (from my POV) random lynch day one. That's why I haven't been posting much, although I have been reading the thread.

I can't believe I'm the only person who prefer to reply to accusations, which is why I've never believed the 'lurking then posting when accused'-"scum tell". I've always answered when being mentioned (whether I'm being called scummy or not), and I intend to keep on doing so. Come to think of it, I'm doing so with this very post.

I bet someone will call this post 'overly defensive', also a "scum tell", if I'm not mistaken. Scum tells suck.


But on the bright side: If people keep calling me scummy, I won't keep on lurking.

[Astronaut]

This post should set off anyone's alarm bells, though considering it's Astro, not too loudly.

(medium-weak scum tell since it's Astro)

I love you too, Vesuvan.


You make a good argument against Puzzle, my biggest problem with his posts is the 'I want at least one name claim before the night.'

To explain the post you quoted:

The presumption was that the town had better opportunities of development at night because of our superior numbers. However, there is a possibility that antitowns get access to roleblockers, which, potentially canceling out an entire townsperson’s development regardless of the time spend on development.
We don't know that the barbarians can build roleblockers, and he wouldn't be able to cancel more than that specific night's development.

I'm still not convinced no lynch wouldn't be the better option, but if you can point out a scummy-looking person to me, I'll consider joining your bandwagon.agon.

For the first paragraph: We don't know anything about what abilities barbarians have or will have other than that they've got at least one night kill. IMO there's no reason to base our tactics on assupmtions. EmpTyger seemed concerned that a roleblocker would cancel all development made by a civilization, that's impossible unless I've misinterpreted how roleblockers work in this game.

As for the 'show me a bandwagon': It's day 1 and I felt we weren't getting that much info from it (at least not enough to make me want to lynch anyone). In those situations, I'm a bandwagoner. Discussion has changed character lately, and it's more likely that scum will expose themselves when accusations are being thrown around than when we're simplly discussing setup and night tactics.

"un-FOS": Astronaut (with attached apology)

I can live with being FOS-ed. On the other hand: if you were to vote me, it'd take more than an apology to make me happy again. 8)

[Astronaut]

I find Flay's argument to be perfectly reasonable, and it's my main reason to suspect Puzzle at the moment.

[Astronaut]

Puzzle's claim can be seen as a reason why he didn't think too much about special units (because the Babylonian SU isn't much worth from the 'build only investigators'-point of view).

Does this necessarily mean I buy the claim? No. Plausible, but not confirmed.

[Astronaut]

Geez, I'm ready to do a faceplant.

I read that as "I'm ready to do a face transplant", and thought "Gee, is he

that

unhappy with his looks?"

[Astronaut]

Almost all info that would be gotten out of a mass claim would be gotten from me claiming.

You're saying you're a pro-town expantion pack civ, right?

Even if this is so, I'm not 100% opposed to a mass claim. This would be useless if scum are given safe claims from mod, but there's also the possibility that we've got unused civs, and scum would have to guess which ones those are. If this is the case, it'd be harder for them to make a correct guess now when we're still all alive. Then again, there's the point of waiting till we've found someone scummy and make them go first. I'll leave the math to someone else...

[Astronaut]

The presumption has been that a civilization is innocent; a barbarian guilty. I’m not willing to be certain it’s that cut-and-dried. (For one thing, again, if it is, then we may as well massclaim right now.)

That does it for me. Major slip-up or seriously bad play.

vote: EmpTyger

[Astronaut]

The presumption has been that a civilization is innocent; a barbarian guilty. I’m not willing to be certain it’s that cut-and-dried. (For one thing, again, if it is, then we may as well massclaim right now.)

That does it for me. Major slip-up or seriously bad play.

vote: EmpTyger

Mod said Barbarians = evil guys. Please explain your case.

You just explained my case for me. The rules (and my role PM) state that Babarians = scum. Emptyger in his post #345 doesn't seem so sure about this. You could also check out the EmpTyger quote in inHim's post #344.

[Astronaut]

Astronaut/d8P/Puzzle:
No, I was not wondering whether we have innocent barbarians. I was wondering whether we have guilty civilizations.

I don't care whether we have guilty civilizations. The fact that you do, tells me that you're not on my side.

While I don't immediately see the harm in your proposal, the fact that I have good reason to think you're a Barbarian makes me think we shouldn't listen to you. I think you're scum fishing for info.

[Astronaut]

even if there are rogue civilizations, we know there are barbarians at the gates; they should be our first priority

I'll say to you what I said to EmpTyger when he was looking for guilty civilizations: Barbarians are the only thing I'm worried about, and they should be every pro-town's

only

priority.

FOS: Mr. Flay

I'm keeping my vote on EmpTyger, but they've both proven that they're either scum or they don't know how to read their PMs. I'm happy lynching either.

[Astronaut]

Revealing investigations doesn't give scum any info besides the fact that you've built a unit capable of investigating, and thus doesn't make you more dangerous to them than anyone else. Revealing that you've found an innocent without giving out a name tells them you've got info the rest of town doesn't know, which would be like painting a bullseye on your shirt.

I can understand those who want to keep discussion going to give scum an opportunity to slip up, but ultimately I think all investigations should be revealed. False clears will be a problem no matter what.

[Astronaut]

No new info from me.

[Astronaut]

No new info from me.

Sorry... nothing from me.

rofl.

Your sense of humour works in mysterious ways I shall not even try to comprehend.

[Astronaut]

I don't have a sense of humour. My sense is spelled "humor"

Oh, it's an American thing...that

does

explain a lot.

[Astronaut]

I'm fine with everyone telling us whether or not they've got a result first, then they tell us the details (should this be done in reversed order?)

What I don't understand is why innocent results shouldn't be revealed with this setup. Sure, a revealed innocent would most likely be dead the next morning, but with 16 civilizations and 4 barbarian tribes, scum already know who's innocent anyway.

[Astronaut]

Thanks, you're pretty amazing yourself...

Wouldn't it be similarly ridiculously easy to double-check a suspicious innocent result? Claiming to have an innocent result on fellow scum is very risky, and not something I think they'd do until endgame. In fact, I think there's a much greater risk of town wasting time by investigating the same player twice than of scum fooling us with false investigations.

In my opinion, this is worth discussing.

[Astronaut]

However, the part where he's certain it's 16 civs and 4 barbarians? Really scummy. Vote: Astronaut, pending the completion of the investigative results.

I see now that I mixed up the numbers. 16 civs in the original civ game became 16 civs in this game. Since we've already got a claimed extension civ, this is probably not accurate. My bad. I have no info whatsoever on how many barbarians we've got.

Scum HATE confirmed innocents.

Why kill someone like that? Vote: Astro

Huh? We know an innocent will die every night no matter what. What does it matter if he's confirmed or not?

I'd like to modify my previous statements, as I know see that it might be worth waiting till we've built up some innocent results before revealing. That way, we'll avoid confirmed being nightkilled as they are revealed. Problem with this is we risk multiple investigations on one person, and people will get nightkilled before they're able to give away their results.

The stupidest thing we could do is to reveal result/no result without giving more info (like we're doing now), since people who've gotten results are certain to get nightkilled before they can reveal who they've got a result on.

I suggest either a full reveal or a "I received a guilty on XXX"/"I did not receive a guilty".

[Astronaut]

well, guilty results at least should be announcedm dont ya think?

I agree that we can reveal any guilty result just before any claim is really made, and any innocent result if the wagonee is innocent.

But, we need to consider confirming others' innocence - I think the best thing to do is to have those with innocents to just say that they have an innocent to report, no names yet. Depending on numbers, I think it would be ok to reveal, but I need more time to think about this.

I disagree. That would easily lead to false clears etc. Only if the innocent is about to be lynched should we speak up.

The first suggestion was to first reveal result/no result, then to reveal guilty investigations. Then I and several others suggested we should reveal innocent results as well. I wasn't aware that we agreed on this suggestion, you certainly didn't express your opinion on the matter.

WTF? Are you sleeping or what?

I find that quite offensive, and reason enough to vote you if we don't find a guilty today.

[Astronaut]

Yes, it is a known fact that having bad manners is a sign of scum. Bah. [/sarcasm]

It's not a sign of scum, but if I've got two players with an equal probability of being scum, and one of them is bad-mannered, I know who I'd vote for.

Glad we seem to agree with how we should do things, though.

[Astronaut]

Well then, that makes things a lot easier.

vote: Mr. Flay

[Astronaut]

It's not naitivity, it's the truth.

Well, this does give Mr. Flay more time for modding his Naivity Mafia.

[Astronaut]

It's the boring game, to be precise.

Now if only I could find one of them "Good posting"-smileys...

[Astronaut]

If we reveal innocent results it too easy to peg off those with info.

...which is why some of us think innocent results should be fully revealed as well... Yes, I know we've been over this before, but no, we didn't come to a conclusion.

[Astronaut]

The many noresults are somewhat suspicious. A grandpa role maybe? Or sanity issues?

Ah, the grandpa unit... Back when I played Civ2 I always played with the Japanese(because they've got the highest life expectancy), researching rheumatism, rocking chairs and senior citizen conscription as soon as possible. Then I built up an army of grandpas (with howitzer support, of course), and steamrolled through the entire continent. Worked like a charm, even at deity level. Those suckers never knew what hit them...

[Astronaut]

Funny guy. I mean a godfather.

An uninvestigatable barbarian tribe? Interesting thought, but until proven wrong, I don't think we've got one.

[Astronaut]

But everyone is finished revealing now, yeah?

Far from it. We're still waiting for:
arkonas
darquiel
Astronaut
VisMaior
Thok
dybeck

[Astronaut]

I'm getting frigging bored by this baby-step-result-posting system with no real play.

Ditto. But we need to get all results out in the open.

[Astronaut]

Well, hasn't this turned into the most boring game ever? Prod on Akonas? His last post was only a couple of days ago, but we won't be going anywhere till he shows up.

[Astronaut]

Allright!

I've got a result, should I reveal straight away or do I wait till all have said result/no result?

[Astronaut]

Hmm...you know, I think I'd rather wait. It might affect play, and we won't go into night until we've got everything on the table anyway.

[Astronaut]

First of all: sorry for going out of turn, I was sure I was after Arkonas.

Still waiting for: darquiel, VisMaior, Thok dybeck.

OK then, from now on: we go after the plan, when you have a guilty, you may come out of order. But you dont have to.

I disagree. Guilty result = speedwagon. Only scum would want to go into night before all information is revealed. Deadline is still days away, more than enough time to get someone lynched.

Raj
Puzzle

When was Puzzle cleared? Sorry, I don't recall this. Also, Thok was cleared by Iammars, who was confirmed pro-town in death.

[Astronaut]

I'm not sure if we should wait for darq's replacement or not. I'm bored as it is.

Anywas, VisMaior is scum.

I think we should get any innocent results out in the open before we lynch him. Don't recall if there were any this round, but VisMaior's been the main man behind the 'only reveal innocents to prevent mislynch'-policy, which I've told you before I think is a bad idea.

[Astronaut]

armlx:

You told us you had an innocent result. I strongly encourage you to tell us who that is, as I'm quite confident that you'll be scum's main target if you don't. That information is useful to town!

[Astronaut]

Same procedure as last year?

[Astronaut]

Oh, and

armlx:

You told us you had an innocent result. I strongly encourage you to tell us who that is, as I'm quite confident that you'll be scum's main target if you don't. That information is useful to town!

Can we please agree on revealing all results, innocent or not from now on? Sure, scum will fake results, but I think we'll be able to weed them out.


Somewhat confirmed pro-town(barring scum gambits):
rajrhcpfreak (investigated by armlx)
d_rouge (gave us Mr. Flay day 2)
Astronaut (gave you VisMaior day 3)

Anyone else who should be on this list?

[Astronaut]

[Dinner for One is a German movie, though. The Americans and the British have never heard of it. I got ya, though ]

Fun fact of the day: In Norway the sketch (here simply known as "The dutchess and the butler") is shown on the day before Christmas Eve, rather than on New Year's Eve. It is one of the most popular programs every year, and in a survey a couple of years ago, seven out of ten Norwegians said that they "simply had to" watch this sketch every year.

[Astronaut]

What I didn't like is that we didn't reveal innocent results. I definitely think that we should get all investigations out in the open, and the way we've been doing this has worked well in the sense that scum hasn't had much chance of messing with us. Problem is, it's been extremely tedious, has made this game utterly boring and probably caused the loss of our mod and several players.

Ideally, we'd have the scummiest-looking people reveal investigations first, but I'm really not in the mood for waiting first to discuss order of revealing and then wait several days for everyone to show up. What we could do is have d_rouge, raj and myself be the last ones to reveal investigations, since there are indicia towards us being innocent.

That combined with the fact that d_rouge might be missing in action, I suggest LordRahl goes first. Perhaps we should skip the first round of everyone telling whether or not they've got a result? It can be useful (since scum who've claimed no result can't counter-claim in the second round), but it does take twice as much time...

Side note: Both scum killed have been classified European Barbarians. Do we have two separate scum groups?

[Astronaut]

As for the situation at hand, I wonder why Astronaut is speaking about two different scum groups. I mean: there's only been one kill a night up to now, so that doesn't seem very likely.

Ehm...we've had two kills the last couple of nights. But this could very well be because scum has built units. If it's because of vigging pro-towns I suggest they should a) stop vigging and b) keep quiet about having vigging units. Anyways, I was only speculating why the dead scum have not simply been Barbarians, but European Barbarians. I understand that this could be seen as useless speculations, and I'll stop now.

As for how to do the result claims, I'm for going on the same way we did up to now, but I'll wait to see if there are good reasons to do differently.

I've already told you I think we've got good reasons to hold off the investigations from confirmed/semi-confirmed townies. Is there any reason not to do this?

[Astronaut]

Lord Rahl hasn't posted on mafiascum in over a week, and never in this thread...

[Astronaut]

I

really

don't want to abandon this one. The mechanics is really interesting IMO, but it requires committed players. Question is: Do we want to keep things rolling, even if it'd require sub-optimal play (e.g not waiting for all investigations)?

[Astronaut]

i dont like the way it sounds... sub-optimal?

Neither do I, but if the alternative is to abandon the game...

#676 : Inhim, how did you know Vismaior was the Huns ? Lynch him, lynch him now !

I thought I'd made a real discovery when I saw this as well, but check VisMaior's # 668...

[Astronaut]

bingo

Let's get things moving, shall we?

Revelation Order:
d_rouge
Lord Rahl
Puzzle
Yosarian2
Mastermind of Sin
Tyfo
Astronaut
rajrhcpfreak
Akonas
d8P
inHimshallibe

d_rouge had nothing, Lord Rahl is missing in action, Puzzle has an innocent but doesn't want to reveal yet (why?). You got anything for us, Yos?

[Astronaut]

No need for that, I think.

[Astronaut]

You no info-boys are so boring. Is Tyfo around?

[Astronaut]

Puzzle, are you still waiting for us to start playing with you? I'll give you what I've got, namely an innocent d8p.

Semi-confirmed

rajrhcpfreak (investigated by armlx)
d_rouge (gave us Mr. Flay day 2)
Astronaut (gave you VisMaior day 3)
d8p (investigated by Astronaut)

[Astronaut]

I'm staying off of the Puzzlewagon. The fact that neither Flay nor VisMaior tried to fake a claim means there's a chance scum weren't given safe claims. I'm not against a MoS lynch, but I need a re-read.

[Astronaut]

My list says that d8p os innocent because I investigated him, and that I'm innocent because I gave you VisMaior. Could someone fill in the rest of the list?

[Astronaut]

Nice going, d8p! Your result is even more worth when you've already been cleared yourself.

With only 5 to lynch, I won't put on my vote on Yos yet, as a quick self-vote and a vote from fellow scum(Lord Rahl) would end the day before all info is out. That being said, my units returned with no result. Bad units!

[Astronaut]

I trust d8p just about as much as I trust my own caravel. And that's a lot. We could be dealing with an uninvestigatable civ here, or Puzzle made a mistake.

If d8p were scum trying to fake a guilty result, I'd think he'd be more careful than to try to frame an already investigated player.

[Astronaut]

Even with two scum groups, I don't see how we could've gotten the results we have without there being either univestigatable civs or barbarian units messing with our results. Finding out the alignment of Lord Rahl would probably help.

vote: Lord Rahl

[Astronaut]

d) I'm scum => Astronaut is naive/scum

I got VisMaior as guilty, so I'm definitely not naïve.

[Astronaut]

I think Lord Rahl is scum because d8p's investigations say so. I also think you're scum, partially because of d8p's investigation but also because of your recent posts, which I've found about as scummy as can be, speculating and stirring up confusion.

I don't think we're at lynch or lose, and lynching Lord Rahl would give us a clue as to whether or not d8p's investigations can be trusted.

[Astronaut]

We had only one death on nights 1 and 2. Very few of us built doc units, and I find it more likely that the increasing number of nightkills comes from scum building killing units than from two different scum groups.

As for the setup, I really don't know. I won't give you any points for noticing that both dead scum are European Barbarians, I believe I was the first one to point out just that. What I do know is that d8p is pro-town, and that d8p thinks Lord Rahl is scum.

Who's your best choice for a lynch, Yos?

[Astronaut]

At the moment, I believe scum are pretty happy with not talking, and as long as we don't put pressure on them, we're unlikely to catch any of them. My best suggestion is to follow a pro-town player with a guilty investigation result.

[Astronaut]

Ehm...the only game I find with the Portuguese civilization mentioned is the "Conquests" expansion to CivIII, and their leader is called Henry the Navigator. Am I missing something?

[Astronaut]

And I don't even get to be on the wagon...

Rahl claimed Mon 06 Feb, 2006 04:34. Lynching vote cast by inHim Wed 08 Feb, 2006 09:42. Akonas posted six times in six different threads inbetween.

If Rahl turns out scum, there's no need wasting all investigations on Akonas.

[Astronaut]

Did you know the reason why you can't play as the Irish in any civ game is that the game would be too easy due to their superior civ-specific attributes? Not to mention their unique units...

[Astronaut]

I'm still alive! And I've got loads of results for you! Was someone clever enough to block/protect, or did the European and Middle-Eastern barbarians both target d8p?

[Astronaut]

I'm still alive! And I've got loads of results for you! Was someone clever enough to block/protect, or did the European and Middle-Eastern barbarians both target d8p?

Actually, I tried to protect d8p, but it failed.

Now did you, scum? I'm thinking Puzzle got his parties mangled up.

[Astronaut]

6 players and probably 3 scum left. Has anyone been smart enough to build vigging units?

[Astronaut]

Will no one else respond to d8p's theory?

What theory in particular?

I need all the information there is to be had. I can make this happen for the Town.

Have you got vigs or blockers? Are they 100% ? Whose info would you trust?

[Astronaut]

I vote for Akonas to claim first, then he chooses who goes second.

[Astronaut]

d_rouge/Akonas: We've probably got two Middle Eastern and one European barbarian tribe left. I'm in no doubt Yos is scum, but do we know for sure he's European scum? I think we should think this through before lynching. There might be other results out there as well.

Claim, Tyfo?

[Astronaut]

That means that if no doc/vig action succeed next night, the middle east wins being 2 on 2 on the last day. So actually, it looks like it might be better for the town to kill a middle east.

The way I see it, the chance of a doc/vig/block succeeding is at least as good as the chance of scum killing eachother.

Besides, I'm wondering what this means:

I can make this happen for the Town.

Sound like good news.

[Astronaut]

The miller is a pro-town role which comes up guilty when investigated. Yos was joking, he knows that we know that he's scum-scummety-scum. As are two others of you. I've got a pretty good idea who you are, too.

Prod on Tyfo?

[Astronaut]

Let them go on, inHim. Any more chit-chat between the two of them would make me even more positive they're from the same barbarian tribe.

[Astronaut]

d_rouge/Akonas: We've probably got two Middle Eastern and one European barbarian tribe left. I'm in no doubt Yos

is

and Akonas are

scum, but do we know for sure

he's

they're

European scum? I think we should think this through before lynching. There might be other results out there as well.

Claim, Tyfo?

[Astronaut]

Wow, Akonas, you're pretty keen on that space race thing. Have you forgotten that in the very same post, Yos also claimed to be Tha Flying Pumpkin?

I'm tired of waiting. I want to end this game, and I want us to win. I investigated Tyfo last night, he's scum. I also investigated inHim(since I didn't trust Akonas' earlier result), he's clean.
My notes read as follows:
inHim is innocent(investigated by me)
Yos is guilty(investigated by d8p)
Tyfo is guilty(investigated by me)

Which leaves d_rouge and Akonas. I earlier had d_rouge as confirmed innocent since he gave us Mr. Flay, now that we know there are two scum groups, there's a possibility that d_rouge is Middle-Eastern scum. Akonas' play today, however... It's almost too obvious to say that he's Yosarian2's partner, but it really doesn't make sense if he's pro-town either.

I'm thinking that whether it's d_rouge or Akonas that is our last scum, they're both likely to be Yosarian's partner. The fact that we had only one kill last night, leaving the possibility that Tyfo could've missed his nightchoice further increases this possibility. That's why I'd like to lynch Tyfo today, I think he's the last European scum. Anyone studied voting patterns?

[Astronaut]

Now there's a twist I didn't see coming. I was quite confident Akonas was the last scum, but now we know for sure that inHim or d_rouge is lying. As before, I've got no reason not to trust my innocent result on inHim.

Now if d_rouge is scum, he's likely to be Middle Eastern, since he gave us Mr. Flay. Then again, this would imply that scum build investigative units, and why would they do that? Is it possible that d_rouge and his European scum buddies may have played a gambit?

inHim, if you've got two 100% blockers, why not lynch one of the confirmed scum?

[Astronaut]

[Astronaut]

What units are you able to build now, Kelly Chen? And what's your unique unit?

[Astronaut]

d_rouge:

How can you be 100% sure inHim is scum, but only 99,5% sure of Yos? You yourself and d8p hva both have a guilty investigation on Yos, while the only reason you've got for suspecting inHim is that he claims to have a guilty investigation on you?

I don't like inHim's play the least, not to mention his reaction to my investigation results last night (which were inHim innocent, Tyfo/Kelly Chen guilty). Now if these are incorrect, someone's been messing with my sanity (which is perhaps not a totally unreasonable ability for scum units). Don't think I'll go against my own investigations, though.

I'd rather go with the confirmed scum Yos (dammit, he claimed miller and Flying Pumpkin, but then decided to not give up after all when Akonas didn't get the joke).

[Astronaut]

What about the fact that InHim claimed my civ?

Well, there's the small matter of that as well, you do make a point

Thanks for reminding me about Puzzle's Yos result, there's definitely something fishy going on with the investigations. Question is, are all my investigations switched, so that if inHim is scum, Kelly is clear?

[Astronaut]

You got VisMaior as scum, didn't you?

Sure did, but that wasn't on the same night as I got Tyfo as scum.

[Astronaut]

inHim, what units were you able to build in the medeieval era?

[Astronaut]

I'm hoping to lynch the last European barbarian. So should you. Re-reading.

[Astronaut]

d_rouge/Kelly: Do you really think we should count on scum nightkilling eachother? Aren't we better off finishing off the European scum and counting on our blocking/protecting units?

[Astronaut]

I have little doubt both Yos and inHim are scum, but with inHim having two innocent investigations on him and Yos having two guilty (one from d8p who was undoubtedly sane that night), I'll

vote: Yosarian2

[Astronaut]

Should I take that vote to mean that you believe Yosarian is European?

Nah, I was leaning towards him being Middle Eastern, actually. But he's the only one I'm 110% certain of being scum. Akonas's vote makes me even more confident Yos is Middle Eastern.

[Astronaut]

You're wrong, d_rouge. I got Kelly guily the same night I got inHim guilty.

[Astronaut]

The same night as I got inHim innocent, that is.