Civilization Mafia - Town Wins!
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Astronaut Goon
- Goon
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- Location: Trondheim, Norway
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Astronaut Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 674
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- Location: Trondheim, Norway
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Astronaut Goon
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- Posts: 674
- Joined: January 7, 2005
- Location: Trondheim, Norway
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Astronaut Goon
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Astronaut Goon
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Astronaut wrote:Tell me again: Why did we move away from the no lynch plan?
As a wise man once said: This is not helpful.Bamboomancer wrote:because it was a stupid plan.
We don't know that the barbarians can build roleblockers, and he wouldn't be able to cancel more than that specific night's development.EmpTyger wrote:The presumption was that the town had better opportunities of development at night because of our superior numbers. However, there is a possibility that antitowns get access to roleblockers, which, potentially canceling out an entire townsperson’s development regardless of the time spend on development.
I'm still not convinced no lynch wouldn't be the better option, but if you can point out a scummy-looking person to me, I'll consider joining your bandwagon.[size=84][i]Have you been peckish during the night? Only, someone's been at me cheese.[/size][/i]-
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Astronaut Goon
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Astronaut Goon
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Astronaut Goon
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Well, I would like to hear why people are suspecting me, so that I can defend myself. I don't see much reasoning behind any of the accusations thrown around so far, so I had more or less accepted a (from my POV) random lynch day one. That's why I haven't been posting much, although I have been reading the thread.Thok wrote:I'll also point out that Astronaut suddenly reappeared when Versuvan mentioned him as likely scum.
I can't believe I'm the only person who prefer to reply to accusations, which is why I've never believed the 'lurking then posting when accused'-"scum tell". I've always answered when being mentioned (whether I'm being called scummy or not), and I intend to keep on doing so. Come to think of it, I'm doing so with this very post.
I bet someone will call this post 'overly defensive', also a "scum tell", if I'm not mistaken. Scum tells suck.
But on the bright side: If people keep calling me scummy, I won't keep on lurking.[size=84][i]Have you been peckish during the night? Only, someone's been at me cheese.[/size][/i]-
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Astronaut Goon
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Vesuvan wrote:This post should set off anyone's alarm bells, though considering it's Astro, not too loudly.
I love you too, Vesuvan.Vesuvan wrote:(medium-weak scum tell since it's Astro)
You make a good argument against Puzzle, my biggest problem with his posts is the 'I want at least one name claim before the night.'
To explain the post you quoted:
For the first paragraph: We don't know anything about what abilities barbarians have or will have other than that they've got at least one night kill. IMO there's no reason to base our tactics on assupmtions. EmpTyger seemed concerned that a roleblocker would cancel all development made by a civilization, that's impossible unless I've misinterpreted how roleblockers work in this game.Astronaut wrote:EmpTyger wrote: The presumption was that the town had better opportunities of development at night because of our superior numbers. However, there is a possibility that antitowns get access to roleblockers, which, potentially canceling out an entire townsperson’s development regardless of the time spend on development.
We don't know that the barbarians can build roleblockers, and he wouldn't be able to cancel more than that specific night's development.
I'm still not convinced no lynch wouldn't be the better option, but if you can point out a scummy-looking person to me, I'll consider joining your bandwagon.agon.
As for the 'show me a bandwagon': It's day 1 and I felt we weren't getting that much info from it (at least not enough to make me want to lynch anyone). In those situations, I'm a bandwagoner. Discussion has changed character lately, and it's more likely that scum will expose themselves when accusations are being thrown around than when we're simplly discussing setup and night tactics.
I can live with being FOS-ed. On the other hand: if you were to vote me, it'd take more than an apology to make me happy again. 8)Vesuvan wrote:"un-FOS": Astronaut (with attached apology)[size=84][i]Have you been peckish during the night? Only, someone's been at me cheese.[/size][/i]-
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Astronaut Goon
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Astronaut Goon
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Puzzle's claim can be seen as a reason why he didn't think too much about special units (because the Babylonian SU isn't much worth from the 'build only investigators'-point of view).
Does this necessarily mean I buy the claim? No. Plausible, but not confirmed.[size=84][i]Have you been peckish during the night? Only, someone's been at me cheese.[/size][/i]-
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Astronaut Goon
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Astronaut Goon
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You're saying you're a pro-town expantion pack civ, right?Thok wrote:Almost all info that would be gotten out of a mass claim would be gotten from me claiming.
Even if this is so, I'm not 100% opposed to a mass claim. This would be useless if scum are given safe claims from mod, but there's also the possibility that we've got unused civs, and scum would have to guess which ones those are. If this is the case, it'd be harder for them to make a correct guess now when we're still all alive. Then again, there's the point of waiting till we've found someone scummy and make them go first. I'll leave the math to someone else...[size=84][i]Have you been peckish during the night? Only, someone's been at me cheese.[/size][/i]-
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Astronaut Goon
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That does it for me. Major slip-up or seriously bad play.EmpTyger wrote:The presumption has been that a civilization is innocent; a barbarian guilty. I’m not willing to be certain it’s that cut-and-dried. (For one thing, again, if it is, then we may as well massclaim right now.)
vote: EmpTyger[size=84][i]Have you been peckish during the night? Only, someone's been at me cheese.[/size][/i]-
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Astronaut Goon
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You just explained my case for me. The rules (and my role PM) state that Babarians = scum. Emptyger in his post #345 doesn't seem so sure about this. You could also check out the EmpTyger quote in inHim's post #344.Puzzle wrote:
Mod said Barbarians = evil guys. Please explain your case.Astronaut wrote:
That does it for me. Major slip-up or seriously bad play.EmpTyger wrote:The presumption has been that a civilization is innocent; a barbarian guilty. I’m not willing to be certain it’s that cut-and-dried. (For one thing, again, if it is, then we may as well massclaim right now.)
vote: EmpTyger[size=84][i]Have you been peckish during the night? Only, someone's been at me cheese.[/size][/i]-
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Astronaut Goon
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I don't care whether we have guilty civilizations. The fact that you do, tells me that you're not on my side.EmpTyger wrote:Astronaut/d8P/Puzzle:
No, I was not wondering whether we have innocent barbarians. I was wondering whether we have guilty civilizations.
While I don't immediately see the harm in your proposal, the fact that I have good reason to think you're a Barbarian makes me think we shouldn't listen to you. I think you're scum fishing for info.[size=84][i]Have you been peckish during the night? Only, someone's been at me cheese.[/size][/i]-
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Astronaut Goon
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I'll say to you what I said to EmpTyger when he was looking for guilty civilizations: Barbarians are the only thing I'm worried about, and they should be every pro-town'sMr. Flay wrote:even if there are rogue civilizations, we know there are barbarians at the gates; they should be our first priorityonlypriority.
FOS: Mr. FlayI'm keeping my vote on EmpTyger, but they've both proven that they're either scum or they don't know how to read their PMs. I'm happy lynching either.[size=84][i]Have you been peckish during the night? Only, someone's been at me cheese.[/size][/i]-
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Astronaut Goon
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Revealing investigations doesn't give scum any info besides the fact that you've built a unit capable of investigating, and thus doesn't make you more dangerous to them than anyone else. Revealing that you've found an innocent without giving out a name tells them you've got info the rest of town doesn't know, which would be like painting a bullseye on your shirt.
I can understand those who want to keep discussion going to give scum an opportunity to slip up, but ultimately I think all investigations should be revealed. False clears will be a problem no matter what.[size=84][i]Have you been peckish during the night? Only, someone's been at me cheese.[/size][/i]-
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Astronaut Goon
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Astronaut Goon
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Astronaut Goon
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Astronaut Goon
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I'm fine with everyone telling us whether or not they've got a result first, then they tell us the details (should this be done in reversed order?)
What I don't understand is why innocent results shouldn't be revealed with this setup. Sure, a revealed innocent would most likely be dead the next morning, but with 16 civilizations and 4 barbarian tribes, scum already know who's innocent anyway.[size=84][i]Have you been peckish during the night? Only, someone's been at me cheese.[/size][/i]-
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Astronaut Goon
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Thanks, you're pretty amazing yourself...
Wouldn't it be similarly ridiculously easy to double-check a suspicious innocent result? Claiming to have an innocent result on fellow scum is very risky, and not something I think they'd do until endgame. In fact, I think there's a much greater risk of town wasting time by investigating the same player twice than of scum fooling us with false investigations.
In my opinion, this is worth discussing.[size=84][i]Have you been peckish during the night? Only, someone's been at me cheese.[/size][/i]-
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Astronaut Goon
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I see now that I mixed up the numbers. 16 civs in the original civ game became 16 civs in this game. Since we've already got a claimed extension civ, this is probably not accurate. My bad. I have no info whatsoever on how many barbarians we've got.Mr. Flay wrote:However, the part where he's certain it's 16 civs and 4 barbarians? Really scummy. Vote: Astronaut, pending the completion of the investigative results.
Huh? We know an innocent will die every night no matter what. What does it matter if he's confirmed or not?HezLucky wrote:Scum HATE confirmed innocents.
Why kill someone like that? Vote: Astro
I'd like to modify my previous statements, as I know see that it might be worth waiting till we've built up some innocent results before revealing. That way, we'll avoid confirmed being nightkilled as they are revealed. Problem with this is we risk multiple investigations on one person, and people will get nightkilled before they're able to give away their results.
The stupidest thing we could do is to reveal result/no result without giving more info (like we're doing now), since people who've gotten results are certain to get nightkilled before they can reveal who they've got a result on.
I suggest either a full reveal or a "I received a guilty on XXX"/"I did not receive a guilty".[size=84][i]Have you been peckish during the night? Only, someone's been at me cheese.[/size][/i]-
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Astronaut Goon
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VisMaior wrote:well, guilty results at least should be announcedm dont ya think?Puzzle wrote:I agree that we can reveal any guilty result just before any claim is really made, and any innocent result if the wagonee is innocent.inHim wrote:But, we need to consider confirming others' innocence - I think the best thing to do is to have those with innocents to just say that they have an innocent to report, no names yet. Depending on numbers, I think it would be ok to reveal, but I need more time to think about this.
The first suggestion was to first reveal result/no result, then to reveal guilty investigations. Then I and several others suggested we should reveal innocent results as well. I wasn't aware that we agreed on this suggestion, you certainly didn't express your opinion on the matter.armlx (in response to me suggsting all-reveal wrote:I disagree. That would easily lead to false clears etc. Only if the innocent is about to be lynched should we speak up.
I find that quite offensive, and reason enough to vote you if we don't find a guilty today.VisMaior wrote:WTF? Are you sleeping or what?[size=84][i]Have you been peckish during the night? Only, someone's been at me cheese.[/size][/i]-
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Astronaut Goon
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It's not a sign of scum, but if I've got two players with an equal probability of being scum, and one of them is bad-mannered, I know who I'd vote for.VisMaior wrote:Yes, it is a known fact that having bad manners is a sign of scum. Bah. [/sarcasm]
Glad we seem to agree with how we should do things, though.[size=84][i]Have you been peckish during the night? Only, someone's been at me cheese.[/size][/i]-
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Astronaut Goon
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Astronaut Goon
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Astronaut Goon
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Astronaut Goon
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...which is why some of us think innocent results should be fully revealed as well... Yes, I know we've been over this before, but no, we didn't come to a conclusion.armlx wrote:If we reveal innocent results it too easy to peg off those with info.[size=84][i]Have you been peckish during the night? Only, someone's been at me cheese.[/size][/i]-
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Astronaut Goon
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Ah, the grandpa unit... Back when I played Civ2 I always played with the Japanese(because they've got the highest life expectancy), researching rheumatism, rocking chairs and senior citizen conscription as soon as possible. Then I built up an army of grandpas (with howitzer support, of course), and steamrolled through the entire continent. Worked like a charm, even at deity level. Those suckers never knew what hit them...VisMaior wrote:The many noresults are somewhat suspicious. A grandpa role maybe? Or sanity issues?[size=84][i]Have you been peckish during the night? Only, someone's been at me cheese.[/size][/i]-
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Astronaut Goon
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Astronaut Goon
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Astronaut Goon
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Astronaut Goon
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Astronaut Goon
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Astronaut Goon
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Astronaut Goon
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First of all: sorry for going out of turn, I was sure I was after Arkonas.
Still waiting for: darquiel, VisMaior, Thok dybeck.
I disagree. Guilty result = speedwagon. Only scum would want to go into night before all information is revealed. Deadline is still days away, more than enough time to get someone lynched.VisMaior wrote:OK then, from now on: we go after the plan, when you have a guilty, you may come out of order. But you dont have to.
When was Puzzle cleared? Sorry, I don't recall this. Also, Thok was cleared by Iammars, who was confirmed pro-town in death.armlx's semi-cleared list wrote:Raj
Puzzle[size=84][i]Have you been peckish during the night? Only, someone's been at me cheese.[/size][/i]-
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Astronaut Goon
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I'm not sure if we should wait for darq's replacement or not. I'm bored as it is.
Anywas, VisMaior is scum.
I think we should get any innocent results out in the open before we lynch him. Don't recall if there were any this round, but VisMaior's been the main man behind the 'only reveal innocents to prevent mislynch'-policy, which I've told you before I think is a bad idea.[size=84][i]Have you been peckish during the night? Only, someone's been at me cheese.[/size][/i]-
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Astronaut Goon
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Astronaut Goon
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Astronaut Goon
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Oh, andAstronaut wrote:armlx:You told us you had an innocent result. I strongly encourage you to tell us who that is, as I'm quite confident that you'll be scum's main target if you don't. That information is useful to town!
Can we please agree on revealing all results, innocent or not from now on? Sure, scum will fake results, but I think we'll be able to weed them out.
Somewhat confirmed pro-town(barring scum gambits):
rajrhcpfreak (investigated by armlx)
d_rouge (gave us Mr. Flay day 2)
Astronaut (gave you VisMaior day 3)
Anyone else who should be on this list?[size=84][i]Have you been peckish during the night? Only, someone's been at me cheese.[/size][/i]-
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Astronaut Goon
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Fun fact of the day: In Norway the sketch (here simply known as "The dutchess and the butler") is shown on the day before Christmas Eve, rather than on New Year's Eve. It is one of the most popular programs every year, and in a survey a couple of years ago, seven out of ten Norwegians said that they "simply had to" watch this sketch every year.d8p wrote:[Dinner for One is a German movie, though. The Americans and the British have never heard of it. I got ya, though ][size=84][i]Have you been peckish during the night? Only, someone's been at me cheese.[/size][/i]-
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Astronaut Goon
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What I didn't like is that we didn't reveal innocent results. I definitely think that we should get all investigations out in the open, and the way we've been doing this has worked well in the sense that scum hasn't had much chance of messing with us. Problem is, it's been extremely tedious, has made this game utterly boring and probably caused the loss of our mod and several players.
Ideally, we'd have the scummiest-looking people reveal investigations first, but I'm really not in the mood for waiting first to discuss order of revealing and then wait several days for everyone to show up. What we could do is have d_rouge, raj and myself be the last ones to reveal investigations, since there are indicia towards us being innocent.
That combined with the fact that d_rouge might be missing in action, I suggest LordRahl goes first. Perhaps we should skip the first round of everyone telling whether or not they've got a result? It can be useful (since scum who've claimed no result can't counter-claim in the second round), but it does take twice as much time...
Side note: Both scum killed have been classified European Barbarians. Do we have two separate scum groups?[size=84][i]Have you been peckish during the night? Only, someone's been at me cheese.[/size][/i]-
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Astronaut Goon
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Ehm...we've had two kills the last couple of nights. But this could very well be because scum has built units. If it's because of vigging pro-towns I suggest they should a) stop vigging and b) keep quiet about having vigging units. Anyways, I was only speculating why the dead scum have not simply been Barbarians, but European Barbarians. I understand that this could be seen as useless speculations, and I'll stop now.d_rogue wrote:As for the situation at hand, I wonder why Astronaut is speaking about two different scum groups. I mean: there's only been one kill a night up to now, so that doesn't seem very likely.
I've already told you I think we've got good reasons to hold off the investigations from confirmed/semi-confirmed townies. Is there any reason not to do this?d_rouge wrote:As for how to do the result claims, I'm for going on the same way we did up to now, but I'll wait to see if there are good reasons to do differently.[size=84][i]Have you been peckish during the night? Only, someone's been at me cheese.[/size][/i]-
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Astronaut Goon
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Astronaut Goon
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Ireallydon't want to abandon this one. The mechanics is really interesting IMO, but it requires committed players. Question is: Do we want to keep things rolling, even if it'd require sub-optimal play (e.g not waiting for all investigations)?[size=84][i]Have you been peckish during the night? Only, someone's been at me cheese.[/size][/i]-
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Astronaut Goon
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Neither do I, but if the alternative is to abandon the game...rajrhcpfreak wrote:i dont like the way it sounds... sub-optimal?
I thought I'd made a real discovery when I saw this as well, but check VisMaior's # 668...Puzzle wrote:#676 : Inhim, how did you know Vismaior was the Huns ? Lynch him, lynch him now ![size=84][i]Have you been peckish during the night? Only, someone's been at me cheese.[/size][/i]-
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Astronaut Goon
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bingo
Let's get things moving, shall we?
d_rouge had nothing, Lord Rahl is missing in action, Puzzle has an innocent but doesn't want to reveal yet (why?). You got anything for us, Yos?inHim's random list wrote:Revelation Order:
d_rouge
Lord Rahl
Puzzle
Yosarian2
Mastermind of Sin
Tyfo
Astronaut
rajrhcpfreak
Akonas
d8P
inHimshallibe[size=84][i]Have you been peckish during the night? Only, someone's been at me cheese.[/size][/i]-
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Astronaut Goon
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Astronaut Goon
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Astronaut Goon
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Puzzle, are you still waiting for us to start playing with you? I'll give you what I've got, namely an innocent d8p.
Semi-confirmed
rajrhcpfreak (investigated by armlx)
d_rouge (gave us Mr. Flay day 2)
Astronaut (gave you VisMaior day 3)
d8p (investigated by Astronaut)[size=84][i]Have you been peckish during the night? Only, someone's been at me cheese.[/size][/i]-
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Astronaut Goon
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I'm staying off of the Puzzlewagon. The fact that neither Flay nor VisMaior tried to fake a claim means there's a chance scum weren't given safe claims. I'm not against a MoS lynch, but I need a re-read.[size=84][i]Have you been peckish during the night? Only, someone's been at me cheese.[/size][/i]-
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Astronaut Goon
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Astronaut Goon
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Nice going, d8p! Your result is even more worth when you've already been cleared yourself.
With only 5 to lynch, I won't put on my vote on Yos yet, as a quick self-vote and a vote from fellow scum(Lord Rahl) would end the day before all info is out. That being said, my units returned with no result. Bad units![size=84][i]Have you been peckish during the night? Only, someone's been at me cheese.[/size][/i]-
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Astronaut Goon
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I trust d8p just about as much as I trust my own caravel. And that's a lot. We could be dealing with an uninvestigatable civ here, or Puzzle made a mistake.
If d8p were scum trying to fake a guilty result, I'd think he'd be more careful than to try to frame an already investigated player.[size=84][i]Have you been peckish during the night? Only, someone's been at me cheese.[/size][/i]-
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Astronaut Goon
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- Joined: January 7, 2005
- Location: Trondheim, Norway
Even with two scum groups, I don't see how we could've gotten the results we have without there being either univestigatable civs or barbarian units messing with our results. Finding out the alignment of Lord Rahl would probably help.
vote: Lord Rahl[size=84][i]Have you been peckish during the night? Only, someone's been at me cheese.[/size][/i]-
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Astronaut Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 674
- Joined: January 7, 2005
- Location: Trondheim, Norway
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Astronaut Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 674
- Joined: January 7, 2005
- Location: Trondheim, Norway
I think Lord Rahl is scum because d8p's investigations say so. I also think you're scum, partially because of d8p's investigation but also because of your recent posts, which I've found about as scummy as can be, speculating and stirring up confusion.
I don't think we're at lynch or lose, and lynching Lord Rahl would give us a clue as to whether or not d8p's investigations can be trusted.[size=84][i]Have you been peckish during the night? Only, someone's been at me cheese.[/size][/i]-
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Astronaut Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 674
- Joined: January 7, 2005
- Location: Trondheim, Norway
We had only one death on nights 1 and 2. Very few of us built doc units, and I find it more likely that the increasing number of nightkills comes from scum building killing units than from two different scum groups.
As for the setup, I really don't know. I won't give you any points for noticing that both dead scum are European Barbarians, I believe I was the first one to point out just that. What I do know is that d8p is pro-town, and that d8p thinks Lord Rahl is scum.
Who's your best choice for a lynch, Yos?[size=84][i]Have you been peckish during the night? Only, someone's been at me cheese.[/size][/i]-
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Astronaut Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 674
- Joined: January 7, 2005
- Location: Trondheim, Norway
At the moment, I believe scum are pretty happy with not talking, and as long as we don't put pressure on them, we're unlikely to catch any of them. My best suggestion is to follow a pro-town player with a guilty investigation result.[size=84][i]Have you been peckish during the night? Only, someone's been at me cheese.[/size][/i]-
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Astronaut Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 674
- Joined: January 7, 2005
- Location: Trondheim, Norway